The Energon Pub

im goin around on the internet look for classics decepticons and i look at my autobot shelf...why has hasbro made almost all the main G1 characters into teh classics line but hardly any of the main G1 characters into toys? instead we get these obscure characters that next to no one knows about. like the black shadow coming out this year, i never heard of the guy until i saw that toy. same with dreadwind. and thunderwing i would never know about if it were not for reading storm bringer. all the classics autobots we get all the good stuff, but we get ripped off when it comes to the decepticons. no shockwave, not blitzwing, no (proper) constructicons, no insecticons, no reflector, no frenzy and rumble, no soundwave, what the hell? why do they do this?!??! and dont even get me started on the seekers -__-

Its all marketing and target markets, oh my brother. Bots sell easier than Cons. As for the selection, as much as we bust their balls, Hasbro has a plan, If they released say, all of the ark crew in one year, and that sells like CRAZY, whats to release next? They have to maintain the butter on that bread, and giving varieties from different parts of the timeline, give more to more fans without having to worry so much about the pool drying up, due to imminent failure. Classics has always been, in my opinion, the perfect filler line. They hold back until they need that leeway, and they've been riding that lightning since the first live action movie. Its been five years since the first wave came out. Isnt that crazy?

bionic_radical wrote:Its all marketing and target markets, oh my brother. Bots sell easier than Cons. As for the selection, as much as we bust their balls, Hasbro has a plan, If they released say, all of the ark crew in one year, and that sells like CRAZY, whats to release next? They have to maintain the butter on that bread, and giving varieties from different parts of the timeline, give more to more fans without having to worry so much about the pool drying up, due to imminent failure. Classics has always been, in my opinion, the perfect filler line. They hold back until they need that leeway, and they've been riding that lightning since the first live action movie. Its been five years since the first wave came out. Isnt that crazy?

i see what you're saying. so they are kinda saving the best for last? like making the classics line last a long time? and even if they do they will never make as much cons?

Doubledealer93 wrote:no shockwave, not blitzwing, no (proper) constructicons, no insecticons, no reflector, no frenzy and rumble, no soundwave,

Energon Shockwave
Animated Blitzwing
... yeah okay, i'm not even going to mention the movie Constructicons
Insecticons yes
Reflector yes (though you've got Spy Shot 6 from the movie line ...)
Frenzy and Rumble ... just weren't bloody released properly!
Generations Soundwave ... or for an alternative, get Takara's MP3 player version.

Burn wrote:

Doubledealer93 wrote:no shockwave, not blitzwing, no (proper) constructicons, no insecticons, no reflector, no frenzy and rumble, no soundwave,

Energon Shockwave
Animated Blitzwing
... yeah okay, i'm not even going to mention the movie Constructicons
Insecticons yes
Reflector yes (though you've got Spy Shot 6 from the movie line ...)
Frenzy and Rumble ... just weren't bloody released properly!
Generations Soundwave ... or for an alternative, get Takara's MP3 player version.

yeah they work as stand ins, and i do have the MP3 player soundwave but still. we need proper classics versions of these!

I wouldn't use the term, "best for last", but I do think they're holding back characters. If they're smart, theyll release their own classics version of Devastator at a hundo price point before everyone gets the third figure out. That is, if they really want to ball bust third parties. But it better not be that damn energon repaint again. Cons have always been light in numbers though. Thats why a troop building decepticon figure is a license to print money. You don't outnumber good guys on the shelves for the kids, but collectors can buy multiples and balance out the collection,

bionic_radical wrote:I wouldn't use the term, "best for last", but I do think they're holding back characters. If they're smart, theyll release their own classics version of Devastator at a hundo price point before everyone gets the third figure out. That is, if they really want to ball bust third parties. But it better not be that damn energon repaint again. Cons have always been light in numbers though. Thats why a troop building decepticon figure is a license to print money. You don't outnumber good guys on the shelves for the kids, but collectors can buy multiples and balance out the collection,

well not a lot of people would buy the same of one con unless its a seeker or scourge. i know i wouldn't. i am gonna buy more sweeps. and maybe an other thundercracker.

Can we honestly "trust" Hasbro to do a decent version of the Constructicons? It seems that with each incarnation of a combiner they seem to be getting worse and worse.

I don't doubt though that if they have a "Let's continue Classics" list they'll be on there some where, but where they fall in priority wise who knows.

Exactly. I think Reflector would be another one that collectors would pick up. Also, a lavender seeker I think would sell as a good case filler. These are platform characters that only collectors replicate. Do you think a kid that doesn't have any idea who scourge is, needs four copies of him? They don't. They strictly appeal to us collectors. If you've ever watched any of the TF Prime episodes, they do the same thing with those black decepticon cars and jets. Its really a great idea, marketing wise.

I think in matters of priority, it's a filler. Its everyones favorite substitute teacher, and as long as they keep it that way, it will do well. It gives the franchise a chance to take a step back from fresh new ideas, and put out something comfortable and familiar to the fans, while simultaneously work on the next best show/toy/movie for the franchise.

Burn wrote:Can we honestly "trust" Hasbro to do a decent version of the Constructicons? It seems that with each incarnation of a combiner they seem to be getting worse and worse.

I don't doubt though that if they have a "Let's continue Classics" list they'll be on there some where, but where they fall in priority wise who knows.

im with ya on not trusting them to do it. thats why we got 3rd parties. but i thought hasbro is trying to compete with 3rd parties?

They compete to a point. At the end of the day their market is still geared towards children whereas the third party companies cater for a more older fanbase.

Combining Classics Constructicons with unique molds at, perhapse, Scout size? Won't happen. Don't even think about it. The classics lines have only been filler to treat fans and keep the shelves wam for the movie lines. The best you can hope for is, maybe, one or two Constructicons. Just look at the Dinobots. How many of those bad boys got a Classics release? It just won't happen. Maybe they'll re-release Energon Devestator again. But that's a stretch.

Hell, they didn't even make a proper combining Devestator for RotF ... and that had a blockbuster backing it up.

Soundwave got a clssics release. Granted, it's a re-release of the G1 toy, but that's what it is. Or you can count the Generations Soundwave. I don't see why Gen Soundwave doesn't count. We're really not hurting for a Soundwave. Even without those, you could always use Label, Cybertron, Animated ... or even Titanium, if you're dying for one. I just don't get what the demand is for this guy. He's been done.

Still, I agree with the greater point of there not being enough cons in the classics lines. It'd have been nice if we didn't have to rely on expencive 3rd party products to fill these gaps. But I can't ully blame Hasbro/Takara. The original lines themselves had far more Autobots than Decepticons. Plus ... let's be fair, Reflector was never a very important guy on the show. If we have to pick on them for Reflector's sake, well ... that's not too much. Shockwave on the other hand, I can get behind. Even if it's the Energon mold in non-garish colors.

Doubledealer93 wrote:im goin around on the internet look for classics decepticons and i look at my autobot shelf...why has hasbro made almost all the main G1 characters into teh classics line but hardly any of the main G1 characters into toys? instead we get these obscure characters that next to no one knows about. like the black shadow coming out this year, i never heard of the guy until i saw that toy. same with dreadwind. and thunderwing i would never know about if it were not for reading storm bringer. all the classics autobots we get all the good stuff, but we get ripped off when it comes to the decepticons. no shockwave, not blitzwing, no (proper) constructicons, no insecticons, no reflector, no frenzy and rumble, no soundwave, what the hell? why do they do this?!??! and dont even get me started on the seekers -__-

I agree with you a hundred percent.

Bad guys don't sell?

They all sell. Some sell better than others.

I think part of the issue with Has/Tak on this is the fact that they've set a standard in these particular toy lines to only do toys (for the most part) that have realistic alt. modes that don't turn into objects, only vehicles (though there are exceptions to that, i.e., Megatron) so I think it would be hard to get them to do a Soundwave that wasn't an SUV like Animated or a Shockwave that wasn't a tank or something like the movie line, though I do expect them to do Shockwave at some point in the Gen. line just because of the toy's popularity in its movie form.

Honestly, aside from the combiners, I can't think of many G1 Decepticons they haven't already done in the Gen./Classics lines. It seems they ran out so they started doing later figures based on the Headmasters/Pretenders and such from much later in the G1 line. There's the Insecticons obviously, but FP beat them to the punch on those, though Hasbro still may do their own. I don't think there are any combiners in the Classics/Gen. lines anyway, so if they start using those characters to fill the gaps, they'll likely just be individual, non-combining figures like they did in the Universe line.

Doubledealer93 wrote:im goin around on the internet look for classics decepticons and i look at my autobot shelf...why has hasbro made almost all the main G1 characters into teh classics line but hardly any of the main G1 characters into toys? instead we get these obscure characters that next to no one knows about. like the black shadow coming out this year, i never heard of the guy until i saw that toy. same with dreadwind. and thunderwing i would never know about if it were not for reading storm bringer. all the classics autobots we get all the good stuff, but we get ripped off when it comes to the decepticons. no shockwave, not blitzwing, no (proper) constructicons, no insecticons, no reflector, no frenzy and rumble, no soundwave, what the hell? why do they do this?!??! and dont even get me started on the seekers -__-

WHAT!!! we literally got 8+ decepticons seekers in the classics/generations/RTS toy line using the starscream toy mold.

yeah we got a good amount of use outta that mold, hahaha. theres been a lot of heartache from the fandom associated with it, too. If you mentioned Thundercracker four years ago? Flame city. What I never got was how Japanese fans never flamed out on the retail release of Thrust and Dirge.

In other words.........bad guys don't really sell as good as the good guys. Aside from Megatron (the tank thing that came with the Optimus with the tomy gun in my country warmed the shelves), Soundwave, Starscream, Scourge, Cyclonus,Astrotrain,Octane/Tankor and the Insecticons (all either G1 re-issues or G1 inspired), I have yet to see any 'con sell out.

Iirc, in Japan, the Decepticon Micromasters were sold as Autobots to ensure that they sell.

So Hasbro(and maybe Takara) is just playing safe with their investments.

Ever wondered (to use the G1 catalog example) why there were more Autobots than Decepticon toys? It is only a minority ( including me)who would actually have the impetus to buy the "bad guys".

Kids (the main market) would want to buy Bumble B etc. In Japan, aside from the example I mentioned, is kind of, well different. The big "kids" with disposable income to spare (an almost rare breed this days) though Japan might be an exception given how a lot of their "toys" go beyond the US$ 100 price range),may want to buy the bad guys but in general, I wouldn't hold my breathe.

Now, what other 'cons should take in the classic treatment?

For G1 Season#1 to #3

1. Megatron=Classics/henkei/United=done
2. Soundwave=done (WFC counted right?)
3. Seekers=done(hoping a re-release of Skywarp)
4. Triple changers=done except for Blitzwing
5. Casseticons= Ravage,Rumble and Frenzy(United anyway)done
6. Galvatron=done
7. Scourge=done
8. Cyclonus=done
9. Onslaught=done
10. Straxus (comics obviously)=done

Who's missing then?

1.Laserbeak and Buzzsaw
2.Shockwave (DOTM counted?)
3.Reflector
4.Insecticons
5.the Gestalts( functional that is) Superlink not considered

So in a sense, a lot of the 'cons already have gotten the "classic" upgrade

Generations Soundwave is perfect imo even if he is cybertronian what more can you realy want from him?, his head,shoulder cannon,laser gun are solid and his chest opens plus his fan made 2nd alt mode

Other than turning into a cassette player for his 1st alt and haveing LB or Ravage theres nothing more i could ask for from him.

Shockwave he will come when they do Blitzwing and a insecticon.

fenrir72 wrote:Now, what other 'cons should take in the classic treatment?

For G1 Season#1 to #3

1. Megatron=Classics/henkei/United=done
2. Soundwave=done (WFC counted right?)
3. Seekers=done(hoping a re-release of Skywarp)
4. Triple changers=done except for Blitzwing
5. Casseticons= Ravage,Rumble and Frenzy(United anyway)done
6. Galvatron=done
7. Scourge=done
8. Cyclonus=done
9. Onslaught=done
10. Straxus (comics obviously)=done

I agree that Hasbro has not released that many. However, if you take into account Henkei, TF United, and exclusives there are more Decepticons than perceived:

Thunderwing
Darkwing
Dirge
Thrust
Ramjet
Acid Storm
Sunstorm
Ghost Starscream
Dragstrip
Dreadwind
Runamuck (planned)
Runabout (planned)
Ravage
Wildrider
Skullgrin
Overkill

And if you take into account the 3rd party characters you can add:

Swindle
Blast off
Reflector
Constructicons

Doubledealer93 wrote:im goin around on the internet look for classics decepticons and i look at my autobot shelf...why has hasbro made almost all the main G1 characters into teh classics line but hardly any of the main G1 characters into toys? instead we get these obscure characters that next to no one knows about. like the black shadow coming out this year, i never heard of the guy until i saw that toy. same with dreadwind. and thunderwing i would never know about if it were not for reading storm bringer. all the classics autobots we get all the good stuff, but we get ripped off when it comes to the decepticons. no shockwave, not blitzwing, no (proper) constructicons, no insecticons, no reflector, no frenzy and rumble, no soundwave, what the hell? why do they do this?!??! and dont even get me started on the seekers -__-

I can understand not knowing who Black Shadow is, since he was a part of the Japanese continuity which aired pre-internet, but your youth is showing if you don't know who Dreadwind & Thunderwing are. You don't have to know who they are, but complaining about not knowing their identities is a bit much.

When you enter into TF fandom, you must realize: 1) you're dealing w/ a franchise that started in the mid-'80s; 2) there are many series, some of which have little to do w/ each other; & 3) there are many sources of official TF facts & history, and sometimes they don't agree w/ each other, even if they deal w/ the same series. That's part of what makes TFs so great (ok, arguing over whether Rumble is red or blue [& vice versa for Frenzy] isn't great) - there's something for everybody. If you don't like a particular series (e.g., I don't care for the Bay-verse TFs save a few), you don't have to buy into it.

Stormrider wrote:
I agree that Hasbro has not released that many. However, if you take into account Henkei, TF United, and exclusives there are more Decepticons than perceived:

Thunderwing
Darkwing
Dirge
Thrust
Ramjet
Acid Storm
Sunstorm
Ghost Starscream
Dragstrip
Dreadwind
Runamuck (planned)
Runabout (planned)
Ravage
Wildrider
Skullgrin
Overkill

Is Hasbro still going through w/ the Runs (patented!)? Now that Generations is coming to a close, I don't see where Hasbro would put them.

I hope Hasbro does give them a MASS release (no more Botcon releases, please). Even though they're Tracks/Wheeljack remolds, I always wanted to have that duo, especially since the G1 figures were so crappy.

Runabout and Runamuck are going to be next year's TF Club exclusives