The Energon Pub

Lord Sir Duke Cobotron the 3rd wrote:Perhaps we SHOULD leave MP's out of this thread. It's kind of unfair to compare anything to these, well, masterpieces.

Sorry if THAT came off as elitist.

Man, I debated with myself for a good while before I replied to shajaki's post.
I knew it was crossing this line - TRANSFORMERSTM toys vs. transforming toys.

So this is fair. That's the line.

Design
Best design!?! Crap! It's such a subjective thing. It makes this thread a dangerously interesting place. And whats worse, is these toys employ TWO kinds of design! Artistic and engineering.
The 3Ps make some interesting designs darn it!
And I was curious to learn more about Orion.
For me, the design esthetics I find most desirable, I would define as Takara. Both artistic and engineering. Takara set an awesome design precedent back in 1970whateverty.
Since 2007ish the TF brand has strayed far from that precedent. In fact, IMO, they took it, scrunched it into a little ball, peed on it, and fed it to a dead dog.(generations excluded, IMO) The 3Ps at times do a really good job evoking that design precedent. And for me, it is a tempting invitation.

william-james88 wrote:Also, though the heart of the designers are in the right place, these companies have no business capitalizing on something they do not own. You were making fun of KOs the other day, but these companies violate the same laws.

KO's are products of stolen property. A factory tools a mold for their client. The mold is approved. The factory goes into production and fills the clients order. The factory then keeps or "steals" the mold, retools it or not, and illegally uses that clients intellectual property or "mold" to make KOs.
How they get away with this, I will never know.

The 3rd Party Situation
Everybody likes music, right? It's a good bet, a song by an artist you like has a sample of a song written by another artist in it. This can get so ridiculous that a song can be composed solely of another song that previously existed. Money is being made this way, and the original artist doesn't see a cent. These new artists and producers work with in the legalities set forth, and prosper. This business practice evolved just a few years before Transformers began.
This sounds criminal! Well, we are all guilty.
Whats your point Cobo?
It's all hip-hop maaaan.
We live in an age of sampling. We all except this to some degree or another. And where there is an audience, there is money to be made.
You can bet bricks to butts Hasbro's lawyers are all over this shizz. The minute one of these "3rd party punks", "steps outa line", Hasbro's law dogs will grab them by the ear and shake every last bit o' pocket change out of their poor lil' britches.

shajaki wrote:you dont own any 3P figures? any particular reason?

A better thought out answer:
Because their not made by Takara, or a company affiliated with Takara. Because THAT'S what I collect. Takara designs.

Will, next time I'm curious of 3rd party items I will try harder to find the appropriate thread.
shajaki, will I find you there?

But to put the train back on the track...

-Kanrabat- wrote:Now, one TF toy that was not from a TF brand at the time but it is now, it's GoBots.

Watchu talkin' bout Kanrabat?

Here's a History lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobots

Wikipedia wrote:The Gobot toyline was based on figures produced by Popy of Japan (later Bandai), named Machine Robo. In another similarity to Transformers, Tonka decided to make the figures sentient robots, rather than human-piloted mecha as they had been in Japan, and divided them into two factions – the good Guardians and evil Renegades (although early figures were simply described as ‘Friendly’ or ‘Enemy’ on the packaging). The figures were all given individual names, in contrast to the simple designations they received in Japan.[3][4]

Introduced in 1984 by Tonka Inc., the Gobots toys created the robot "sensation" that swept the nation for a short time.[5][6][7][8]

The line sold well initially, but was overtaken by Transformers. 1987 was the final year in which new Gobots were released. In 1991, Hasbro acquired the Gobots range from Tonka Inc.[9]

So yeah, We could get some GoBots love in the Generations line.

Also, TlDr: 3rd party figures are nice and all, but they belong in the 3rd party forums.
MPs are perfect from this here thread because even MPs are not perfect. Some are good, some are bad. Afterall, the talk is what are the BEST DESIGNS regardless of categories.

-Kanrabat- wrote:3rd party figures are nice and all, but they belong in the 3rd party forums.
MPs are perfect from this here thread because even MPs are not perfect. Some are good, some are bad. Afterall, the talk is what are the BEST DESIGNS regardless of categories.

best designs... regardless of category you say?

you all want to talk about elitists? thats a heavy vibe i feel when i even think about mentioning anything 3P outside of the 3P forum. we're like second class citizens in this place. i mentioned that an upgrade kit would be nice for the new superion in the CW thread. am i still welcome there?

its really unfair that the moment something is mentioned about 3P (thats even topic appropriate) we're told to get lost.

this here? this is a derail. what i posted about TW orion was not.

The Galaxy Leader Class Optimus Prime is easily my second favorite figure outside of MP-10. It's got everything!, It was a joy to transform, and in addition, the figure just looks smashingly brilliant, and dead on to the TV series! I mean, just wow!!

It's design was a combo of Original Optimus, and Beast wars, and the latter version of Prime from the Japanese series, with Prime having an upgrade armor trailer, and wings.


They even gave him a Matrix!


With his legs a bit stunted in the original form, it did extend and make the larger winged format look larger, and simulated his growth to a larger and more powerful form, which I suppose is the point afterall..



His truck mode design was quite striking, and cool.



Overall a great figure..

THE ONE THING I WISH THAT HASBRO OR TAKARA TOMY WOULD DO THO.. MAKE A MASTERPIECE or a RETOOLED VERSION OF ARMADA PRIME AND TRAILER!!! As a cool anniversary release for those kids who grew up on that series. me being a G-1 myself, I know how important it is for kids and fans of each successive generation to get something they liked and were fans of.. I just think that Armada Optimus Prime is pretty amazing, and wish his Leader class format was more flexible and better proportioned. Especially the knees of the super format..




But this forum is about the best in terms of design, and well.. I just can't say enough about MP-10!! I mean, as a fan of the cartoon of G-1, this figure just screams the show!! It is the closest representation of Generation 1 Optimus prime I have ever seen to date. I mean, MP-1 is amazing, but MP-10 hits it home. It is the way I would have wanted the original Series toy released had they had that technology back in the day. Just the top figure in my book, and I aim to get him!! I just hope Hasbro does something like this for all the main 1st season figures and gives us a box set of Autobots and Decepticons in that scale in the future. Imagine an MP-10 Style retooled Megatron! Now that would be awesome!! Even if I have to import him from Japan..



In my book, there is just no Better figure.. This is the Optimus Prime from Generation 1!! this is the ultimate figure..


Also, I do like the Hottoys version of G-1 Prime too, even if it doesn't transform.


But even with the Hottoys version, the MP-10 captures what they got, and TRANSFORMS!! Best figure..best design, captures the TV cartoon and Movie brilliantly! Now just give us a MP-10 scaled Ultra Magnus and we'll be ready for some action!!

MP-10 for the Win!!

-Kanrabat- wrote:Here's a History lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobots

Wikipedia wrote:The Gobot toyline was based on figures produced by Popy of Japan (later Bandai), named Machine Robo. In another similarity to Transformers, Tonka decided to make the figures sentient robots, rather than human-piloted mecha as they had been in Japan, and divided them into two factions – the good Guardians and evil Renegades (although early figures were simply described as ‘Friendly’ or ‘Enemy’ on the packaging). The figures were all given individual names, in contrast to the simple designations they received in Japan.[3][4]

Introduced in 1984 by Tonka Inc., the Gobots toys created the robot "sensation" that swept the nation for a short time.[5][6][7][8]

The line sold well initially, but was overtaken by Transformers. 1987 was the final year in which new Gobots were released. In 1991, Hasbro acquired the Gobots range from Tonka Inc.[9]

So yeah, We could get some GoBots love in the Generations line.

I honestly didn't know this. I suppose I could have guessed seeing as how Hasbro has bought up almost every toy company other than Mattel. Although, with Hasbro acquiring all licensing from Disney, they might as well have bought Mattel

Also, TlDr: 3rd party figures are nice and all, but they belong in the 3rd party forums.
MPs are perfect from this here thread because even MPs are not perfect. Some are good, some are bad. Afterall, the talk is what are the BEST DESIGNS regardless of categories.

I agree. Regardless of category with in the official Transformers brand.

Cobotron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Here's a History lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobots

Wikipedia wrote:The Gobot toyline was based on figures produced by Popy of Japan (later Bandai), named Machine Robo. In another similarity to Transformers, Tonka decided to make the figures sentient robots, rather than human-piloted mecha as they had been in Japan, and divided them into two factions – the good Guardians and evil Renegades (although early figures were simply described as ‘Friendly’ or ‘Enemy’ on the packaging). The figures were all given individual names, in contrast to the simple designations they received in Japan.[3][4]

Introduced in 1984 by Tonka Inc., the Gobots toys created the robot "sensation" that swept the nation for a short time.[5][6][7][8]

The line sold well initially, but was overtaken by Transformers. 1987 was the final year in which new Gobots were released. In 1991, Hasbro acquired the Gobots range from Tonka Inc.[9]

So yeah, We could get some GoBots love in the Generations line.

I honestly didn't know this. I suppose I could have guessed seeing as how Hasbro has bought up almost every toy company other than Mattel. Although, with Hasbro acquiring all licensing from Disney, they might as well have bought Mattel

Slight correction about the Gobots, Wikipedia is slightly misleading there: Hasbro may have the IP which includes names and characters, but they don't have the rights to the original Gobots molds, which are Machine Robo by Bandai. Reissues or updated designs would be impossible at this point, since Bandai is a major player in the US now.
Long story short: Bandai owns the original toy designs, which were released in the US as Gobots via Tonka, and Hasbro owns the proper Gobots IP. I doubt either will yield to the other for the US market.

Hmmm... If you want Gobots figures.. GO HERE!!!!

http://www.buycheapr.com/us/result.jsp? ... chine+robo

skywarp-2 wrote:Just the top figure in my book, and I aim to get him!! I just hope Hasbro does something like this for all the main 1st season figures

This is a bold claim since you don't have him yet. Neither do I. Being a fan of all things Takara, I have a strong hunch that he may be a good candidate for "the best" category. Its hard for me to say without him in hand. When you do acquire him I hope you will tell us what you think.

In the "What TF would you like, but know they'll never make" thread, I said the same thing about Cybertron Prime. It would be cool to see him redone to the MP standard of design.
But then we all agreed, he is already a masterpiece.

Cheers

Cobotron, You are correct my friend. it is a bold claim. I should have stated I do not own him up front. I just figured I would be safe with the premise being in terms of design, and from what I have seen, in video reviews on Youtube, the seibertron gallery, and images of it from around the web, I still stand by my statement, that MP-10 is the best and brightest. I did however own Cybertron Prime, and Armada, and Many others. I own MP-1, but from what I can tell, MP-10 is definitely the version I want the most.. I MUST HAVE IT!!!!

Now if they can take MP Skywarp, and Starscream and reduce it's scale while retaining functionality and cartoon and vehicle accuracy, I would be extremely happy. Smaller figures in masterpiece format, means better cost, and the possibility of a three pack combo which could be a godsend in terms of price for bulk collecting. Tho, I would wish Hasbro would invest in collector friendly packaging, with a door over the front, and a slide out tray for easy storage, and travel..I hate their one time open packaging..

I like the ease of being able to put them away if I need to, like cleaning, and rearraging my collections. plus if I move to a new house, or room in my house, or even to take to a friend to show off, it is nice to have packaging that helps with that like the Takara Tomy stuff does.

@ shajaki

I would like to take it upon myself to invite you to stay here in this thread.
Through out the forum, like with many others, I have found your opinions, positive and negative, valid and valuable.

Case in point:

shajaki wrote:i was excluding MP's because... well every one of them is a work of art in a sense. however, id now like to nominate MP03 starscream.

as expected, he has a very intuitive transformation. very nice bot mode albeit not "geewun". and that realistic jet mode is damn near seamless. and now that i have 4 MP03 molds and 5 MP11 molds, i can say that the 03 mold is more structurally sound. i think only one of my MP11's fits together tightly cause of that damn sliding torso and chest/shoulders.

I have yet to hear anyone chose the MP03 mold over the MP11. Until now. This is interesting because I don't own an MP11 mold. I was one of the lucky few who found a Skywarp in the clearance isle of Walmart for $19.99. I gotta thing for Skywarp. He's my fav seeker.
Before him the only other MP I had was MP01, or whatever the TRU version was numbered, and like Skywarp he was a great deal at 50% off. Both of these figures left me skeptical towards the MP line. I wasn't hooked until I got Red Alert.
SOOOO....
I am considering picking up TRU Sunstorm. I actually like his paint job, and I don't own any other versions of this character. He is the least expensive option for this mold, and would be a neat oddity in my collection.

shajaki, in your opinion, should I skip it? Skywarp is not my favorite toy. I'm glad I have him, but IMO he is a fiddly fart, and I spend very little time playing with him.

I'll say this, If I do get the Mp-10, I am definitely taking a blue clear coat, and painting the windshield. that's the only thing I would mod on it. Just my preference, But I like the cartoony feel of that, and have seen some other pics of people who own him and have done so, and it looks absolutely amazing with that simple mod..

MP-10 Optimus Prime should be the standard. They should do all subsequent Masterpiece molds on that level of functionality, just the right amount of detail, and cartoon accuracy, with realism.. going forward.. in that scale.

Hasbro should help and release all future MP's under the title "Generation 1, Perfect edition", and go from there.. MP-10 should be PE-10, and then go with a remolded Skywarp, Starscream, and thundercracker, Hound, and Bumblebee, and All the characters from G-1 Season 1. they could milk me for all I am worth for that run.. and then Present a season 2 release, with a PE-1 Optimus Prime reissue, and Megatron Mail in order, with removable red tip..

I'd be all in and my wallet emptied for that!!

Come on Hasbro, use your brains.. US X-Gens have the cash.. cater to the Want!!! It's a no brainer!!

skywarp-2 wrote:Cobotron, You are correct my friend. it is a bold claim. I should have stated I do not own him up front. I just figured I would be safe with the premise being in terms of design, and from what I have seen, in video reviews on Youtube, the seibertron gallery, and images of it from around the web, I still stand by my statement, that MP-10 is the best and brightest. I did however own Cybertron Prime, and Armada, and Many others. I own MP-1, but from what I can tell, MP-10 is definitely the version I want the most.. I MUST HAVE IT!!!!

Now if they can take MP Skywarp, and Starscream and reduce it's scale while retaining functionality and cartoon and vehicle accuracy, I would be extremely happy. Smaller figures in masterpiece format, means better cost, and the possibility of a three pack combo which could be a godsend in terms of price for bulk collecting. Tho, I would wish Hasbro would invest in collector friendly packaging, with a door over the front, and a slide out tray for easy storage, and travel..I hate their one time open packaging..

I like the ease of being able to put them away if I need to, like cleaning, and rearraging my collections. plus if I move to a new house, or room in my house, or event o take to a friend to show off, it is nice to have packaging that helps with that like the Takara Tomy stuff does.

Weird! when I quoted you, all this other content of you're post showed up that wasn't in the thread.

I too was going to say... agreed, I MUST HAVE IT!!!!

This is a good point about the packaging. I haven't purchased any of the TRU versions since MP01. Is this packaging not reusable?

Glad to see some love for Skywarp. He's my favorite seeker too, and I feel like he always gets the shaft.

edit:
Well now I see the second and third paragraphs in the thread. I swear they werent there when I hit the quote button. This has happened before in another thread and it almost got me in trouble.

As far as I remember the TRU packaging was okay, it did ding up pretty easy, and the flip top top was a struggle to keep flat after opening, unlike the Takara Boxes, and their side open panels, which fit perfectly back together. I always go with Takara, as they tend to add more paint apps, and better details to their figures. It costs a bit more, but so worth it as a collector who values accuracy over price.

Yea, Skywarp has always been my fav Seeker.. I mean, a Transformer who can fly, and teleport!! Plus his voice actor did a great job of presenting him in the classic toon series.. I always wanted to see him and Starscream vying for supremacy.. Thundercracker always seemed to be Skywarp's backup.. which was nice. Starscream was always on his own, or sucking up to Megatron, but Skywarp and Thundercracker could rely on each other.. like starsky and hutch.. LOL

I created myself on here as Skywarp-2, as he would have wanted to revert back to a former format, after the death of Unicron and all that stuff.. So Skywarp-2 is his original Cybertronian format, and human jet form.. Better days I suppose.

@skywarp-2
It happened again. Do you keep editing? why does this happen?
I like your PE idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I prefer the release of Prime which models the cartoon series a bit more in terms of paint applications.


In this repainted lighter legs and crotch looks quite nice as well. very cartoony, with a metallic slightly darker red paint app.. Plus the clear coated light blue was added.. very nice..this is how he should be released! I mean look at the handle grips on the Shoulder parts of the arms! I never noticed that detail before, until this paint mod!! Great Mold!!


overall, I still say this guy is awesome. MY PRECIOUS!!

HMmmm.. I may have to get two of them.. One to paint one to leave in Box!

Cobotron wrote:@skywarp-2
It happened again. Do you keep editing? why does this happen?
I like your PE idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO! yea sorry.. At work, and I forget to say something and have to revise..

A PE line would make my Millennium!!

skywarp-2 wrote:

Cobotron wrote:@skywarp-2
It happened again. Do you keep editing? why does this happen?
I like your PE idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO! yea sorry.. At work, and I forget to say something and have to revise..

A PE line would make my Millennium!!

GET TO WORK!!!!!

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Cobotron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Here's a History lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobots

Wikipedia wrote:The Gobot toyline was based on figures produced by Popy of Japan (later Bandai), named Machine Robo. In another similarity to Transformers, Tonka decided to make the figures sentient robots, rather than human-piloted mecha as they had been in Japan, and divided them into two factions – the good Guardians and evil Renegades (although early figures were simply described as ‘Friendly’ or ‘Enemy’ on the packaging). The figures were all given individual names, in contrast to the simple designations they received in Japan.[3][4]

Introduced in 1984 by Tonka Inc., the Gobots toys created the robot "sensation" that swept the nation for a short time.[5][6][7][8]

The line sold well initially, but was overtaken by Transformers. 1987 was the final year in which new Gobots were released. In 1991, Hasbro acquired the Gobots range from Tonka Inc.[9]

So yeah, We could get some GoBots love in the Generations line.

I honestly didn't know this. I suppose I could have guessed seeing as how Hasbro has bought up almost every toy company other than Mattel. Although, with Hasbro acquiring all licensing from Disney, they might as well have bought Mattel

Slight correction about the Gobots, Wikipedia is slightly misleading there: Hasbro may have the IP which includes names and characters, but they don't have the rights to the original Gobots molds, which are Machine Robo by Bandai. Reissues or updated designs would be impossible at this point, since Bandai is a major player in the US now.
Long story short: Bandai owns the original toy designs, which were released in the US as Gobots via Tonka, and Hasbro owns the proper Gobots IP. I doubt either will yield to the other for the US market.

Argh... So, what's the point? No proper Gobots toys will ever be released. They just have the Go-Bots name, plus the bot names which are silly puns only (Appart for Baron Von Joy). Thalk about lame and pointless. The only purpose was to kill the competition. Sigh... Pathetic.

-Kanrabat- wrote:The only purpose was to kill the competition. Sigh... Pathetic.

Big business, watcha gonna do?

Cobotron wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:The only purpose was to kill the competition. Sigh... Pathetic.

Big business, watcha gonna do?

ON WITH THE TORCH AND PITCHFORKS!
For something that happenned 25 years ago... Sigh... Well, 3rd party companies, get to work! They already made a Cy-Kill but he's way too part-formy to my tastes.

Also, Let me add that Cybertron/Galaxy Force Optimus Prime is one of the best Optimus out there and one of my favorite TF ever. However, only one thing prevent him from being a "best" in term of design. That peek-a-boo head in vehicle mode.

Also, MP-10 is defenitely a "best". Perfect everything and he's fun to transform!

-Kanrabat- wrote:[Also, MP-10 is defenitely a "best". Perfect everything and he's fun to transform!

Awesome, a first hand account! I can not wait to get mine!!

skywarp-2 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:[Also, MP-10 is defenitely a "best". Perfect everything and he's fun to transform!

Awesome, a first hand account! I can not wait to get mine!!

Trust me, this is a mold that nomatter the version, you won't regret having.

I assume youy're getting the Bathing Ape version, right?

LOL! that's fun looking.. Nah, I am more interested in the cartoon looking version.

But I will be getting the jet pack upgrade!!
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/US-NEW-SXS-FO1-J ... 258dc962ad

MAN! If money were no object, I think it would be fun to have a green one.

Cobotron wrote:I have yet to hear anyone chose the MP03 mold over the MP11. Until now. This is interesting because I don't own an MP11 mold. I was one of the lucky few who found a Skywarp in the clearance isle of Walmart for $19.99. I gotta thing for Skywarp. He's my fav seeker.
Before him the only other MP I had was MP01, or whatever the TRU version was numbered, and like Skywarp he was a great deal at 50% off. Both of these figures left me skeptical towards the MP line. I wasn't hooked until I got Red Alert.
SOOOO....
I am considering picking up TRU Sunstorm. I actually like his paint job, and I don't own any other versions of this character. He is the least expensive option for this mold, and would be a neat oddity in my collection.

shajaki, in your opinion, should I skip it? Skywarp is not my favorite toy. I'm glad I have him, but IMO he is a fiddly fart, and I spend very little time playing with him.

*sigh*... alright...

its not so much that i "choose" MP03 over MP11, its just that MP03 was more functional and solid. the internets cried when he was revealed for not being an accurate enough sculpt, and even further from the source in coloring. but.. dammit he stays together. and accuracy aside, its a beautiful piece. if we're just going for accuracy, then MP11 wins hands down what with his perfect sculpt and color. and while the chest slidey thing it does is irritating, the engineering is still impressive and worth checking out first hand.

if you want a sunstorm go for it. you seemed to make yourself a good case without my input anyways . fiddly chest or not, hes still fun. he can be found locally, (relatively) cheaply, and still has some nice elements to his scheme (flamey wings.. mmmm). go for it!