The Energon Pub

Red 50 wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

shockblast1888 wrote:Its sentinel prime.

If someone dares to argue that now I will go insane and tear them apart.

Argue that in which way??

I think he means if anyone still claims that this is either Ultra Magnus or Alpha Trion and NOT Sentinel Prime, he'll go crazy. Especially since it's almost certain now that this is Sentinel.

Ahh, see I've always argued that it "SHOULDN'T" be a Prime based on the story of the last film.

And I still stand by that.

And the simple counter-argument to that is, he was lost, went offline. Offline for the most part may mean death (in which case all Primes were dead) but revival is a possibility which is what will most likely happen for Sentinel.

So by that reasoning there may be more Primes out there, just in an offline status.

Burn wrote:And the simple counter-argument to that is, he was lost, went offline. Offline for the most part may mean death (in which case all Primes were dead) but revival is a possibility which is what will most likely happen for Sentinel.

So by that reasoning there may be more Primes out there, just in an offline status.

You know me better then that, dont you think nI would have considered that "simple" counter-argument if it was viable?

The problem stems from the ghost of the dead primes.

The last film strongly implied that they were "all knowing" super natural god types.

They call Optimus their last decedent.

If there was others that were simplely off line and could be reactivated it was inappropriate to call Optimus the last.

So, this guy being a Prime creates issues with the last film no matter how you loook at it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You know me better then that, dont you think nI would have considered that "simple" counter-argument if it was viable?

To be honest I sometimes think you like to debate for the sake of debating.

The last film strongly implied that they were "all knowing" super natural god types.

You said it, "implied". Implying doesn't necessarily mean fact.

If there was others that were simplely off line and could be reactivated it was inappropriate to call Optimus the last.

And working on this as an assumption (which until the movie comes out, most people seem to be going with), The Ark crashed, contact was lost with Sentinel. So working with that, the Ghost of Primes Past may not be as all knowing as they'd like to make out.

Or it could be Sam had been having some of those cookies his mother had.

So, this guy being a Prime creates issues with the last film no matter how you loook at it.

Only if you look into it deeply. Most people (aka the general moving going public that made all the money for the movies) won't give a toss.

Burn wrote:To be honest I sometimes think you like to debate for the sake of debating.

Thats not far from the truth.

I like playing devils advocate to what people think are absolute ideas.

You said it, "implied". Implying doesn't necessarily mean fact.

implied only because just about every story always stop short of actully saying these things are gods.

Its a story telly tactic to leave such things a bit vague.

But the message is quite clear.They were god like characters that knew everything about Sam and his destiny.

Based on how they were depicted, theres no excuse for them not knowing about other Primes or for saying Optimus cwas the last if there were others around.

And working on this as an assumption (which until the movie comes out, most people seem to be going with), The Ark crashed, contact was lost with Sentinel. So working with that, the Ghost of Primes Past may not be as all knowing as they'd like to make out.

Doesnt fit with how they were depicted and the story in the last film.

Its a contradiction plain and simple.

Or it could be Sam had been having some of those cookies his mother had.

Nice

Only if you look into it deeply. Most people (aka the general moving going public that made all the money for the movies) won't give a toss.

I dont really give a crap either, I'm just pointing it out.

I dont expect consistency in story telling from Bay films.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I dont expect consistency in story telling from Bay films.

And there in lies the answer to all things.

We've gone from two over-hyped under-talented hacks, to two over-hyped under-talented hacks + some poor sod to some poor sod who's now left to pick up the pieces.

He might suprise us all and actually explain why Optimus was regarded as the last Prime even with Sentinel still laying around. Doubt it though.

Pics of Sentinel Prime's toy have surfaced, and it has the same head as the Autobot from the teaser...only red. So yeah, it is Sentinel Prime. And that ship is supposed to be like a coffin or something. Also, someone being dead in Transformers doesn't make them actually dead.

Burn wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I dont expect consistency in story telling from Bay films.

And there in lies the answer to all things.

We've gone from two over-hyped under-talented hacks, to two over-hyped under-talented hacks + some poor sod to some poor sod who's now left to pick up the pieces.

He might suprise us all and actually explain why Optimus was regarded as the last Prime even with Sentinel still laying around. Doubt it though.

I find it unlikely we will get an adequate explanation.

The writers for the first two TF films are not gone right? S the new writer didn't get his database straight then. And ditto to the other reason..........it's a Bayfilm. Which is noted for it's "consistency" in its facts and plot.

fenrir72 wrote:The writers for the first two TF films are not gone right? S the new writer didn't get his database straight then.

Nope, Orci and Kurtzman aren't writing this one.

fenrir72 wrote:And ditto to the other reason..........it's a Bayfilm. Which is noted for it's "consistency" in its facts and plot.

Michael Bay doesn't write the script.

Burn wrote:And the simple counter-argument to that is, he was lost, went offline. Offline for the most part may mean death (in which case all Primes were dead) but revival is a possibility which is what will most likely happen for Sentinel.

So by that reasoning there may be more Primes out there, just in an offline status.

Yes, this is sci-fi. This happens a lot, and I wish others would understand this. And if you read comics a lot you see "comic book deaths"- or deaths that just don't very last long. And there has to be an explanation of Sentinel's coming-back-to-life in the movie. Bay isn't just going to say: "Well, we said there weren't any other Primes alive last time, but that doesn't matter. Let's throw in this Prime and just not explain why he's alive now."

That Sentinel leader toy looks absolutely fantastic. I once stateed I'll buy it just to convert it into Inferno, but, sadly for Inferno, no way: Movieverse Sentinel ROCKS!

Two speculations based on the toy:

1: The head is massively similar to the 'red head on a stick' spotted at the Chicago shoot, which we designated to be Hot Rod and the Ferrari. From memory, I consider it a different, younger head to the Sentinel head.

2) The great looking shield Sentinel has with him could mean that Optimus Primes' Trailer is a gift of sorts from Sentinel rather than the known sacrificial offering from Jetfire.Alternatively, it could be Jetfires' remains re'magicked' by Sentinels' touch, possibly through a direct 'inner' upgrading of Optimus by Sentinel.

Just trying to keep all avenues covered- you guys are doing all the real work.

More speculation, even tho everybody knows it is Sentinel Prime and that's the end of that:

Tho Initial impression would suggest the Ark crashed after a Decepticon boarding action (theory initially re-enforcable by numbers of dead strewn around crash site being reminiscent of G1 opening) it's just as likely the dead were injured directly by the actual crash, and either died immediately and were tossed from within the wreckage, died from massive damage almost immediately, Energon-starved to death (difficult in such proximity to Earth) or got attacked by more Cons dirtside after the crash.

The Ark/Sentinel expedition may turn out to be the reason Megatron crash landed on Earth (damage after a skirmish), and either Megz or Shockwave could have caused the hull breach on the Ark (amongst others,including the Fallens' own crashed [I assume] ship).

Megz may have been following Sentinels expedition, rather than a rumor or beacon from the Allspark cube/Matrix/Tomb of Primes itself.

It can be assumed Sentinels' expedition was actually heading for Earth (albeit without knowing it was their destination) rather than coincidentally passing by on another route.

Sams ramblings in Rotf can be construed to imply that either the Allspark (well of sparks?) or the dead Primes' Twittering to Sam from Robo-heaven knew about the expedition: that is, that one of these two sources, if not both,was what Sam was linking to whenever he was channeling.It's realistic, but unlikely (for the depth level of the specific storytelling medium) that whilst channeling he could link and extract/snake such knowledge from existing living TFs in the vicinity such as satellite Soundwave, who may turn out in Dotm to have known about the Ark for a while now, and easily may have heard about the Sentinel expedition at least ages ago when it was actual news even if he never ended up learning that it ended up on the Moon.

Autobot Smoketreader wrote:The Ark/Sentinel expedition may turn out to be the reason Megatron crash landed on Earth (damage after a skirmish), and either Megz or Shockwave could have caused the hull breach on the Ark (amongst others,including the Fallens' own crashed [I assume] ship).

Megz may have been following Sentinels expedition, rather than a rumor or beacon from the Allspark cube/Matrix/Tomb of Primes itself.

The tie-in comics (whether you want to take them as canon or not is up to you) pretty much deal with why Megs ended up on Earth. And it had nothing to do with Sentinel or any other Cybertronian, it was all Allspark related.