The Energon Pub

Of course they couldn't do anything too radical in a cartoon...pedophile subject matter is definitely out. But in comparison to some other 80's (or current) cartoons, TF, however dumbed down for mass consumption it was, dealt with political corruption, mob mentality, theft, weapons smuggling, brain-washing, environmental destruction, etc. It went over my head as a kid, but recently rewatching them, I was impressed that there were some writers willing to slip in those themes. It's no 'Great Expectations' or anything, but handled well for the medium. No cartoon today would dare use the phrase 'Carbombya'...they'd get sued into the stone age.

Now, there are all sorts of regulations that prevent the same kind of realism to be applied to a cartoon show, shown in the afternoons, for 8-14 year old kids.

But, I'll use my own argument against me, for debate's sake. If we can (mostly) accept all the faults of G1, then I guess anyone growing up with A/E/C will be able to accept those show's faults, cart blanche, just as easily.

First Gen wrote:I think HASBRO dropped the ball a long time ago.

Uh-oh...

First, you have TAKARA, which makes good quality, awesome looking TF's, then HASBRO brings the over to us, gives us cheap plastic versions of the Die Cast originals, and sells them at the same price, i.e. 20th anniversary Prime.

1. Transformers were an American Brand first. True, Diaclone and Microman preceeded these lines in Japan, but Takara did not '1-up' Hasbro during G1.
2. Start a list for me, of all the products where Takara provided die-cast instead of plastic and Hasbro did not follow suit. BinalTech is perhaps the only real exception.
3. 20th Anniversary Prime is essentially the same product as MP Convoy. They have the same die-cast and the first releases of both were the same with the exception of battle damage and short stacks.

And thats just the toys. Look at the millions of different incarnations and story lines in Japan, friggin Gundam Transformers, all kinds of fun stuff. Not to mention Japanese voice overs that even give Rodimus a set.

What? You just can't be serious. Hasbro has hooked us up with numerous exclusives, Botcon, the FanClub, and Classics, all in the past few years.

Beast Wars in all its deliciousness was an American (/Canadian) product.

Thumbs down dude.

Rabid fan-boy-ism will get debunked fast around here. Takara is an awesome company. So, is Hasbro. They both provide great product and what's more, having two companies like that gives us two distinct markets by which to get stuff.

I love Takara, without them, there would be no Masterpiece line. It's no one sided issue though and saying Hasbro is junk, just proves you're watching the wrong channel.

Maybe the new show will have less of these faults, given that it's being developed Stateside. A/E/C suffered from being a JP show translated over here. Perhaps the new show will be more akin to G1 in such themes?

Its what Hasbro has trademarked in 1984. As long as there will be a Megatron in the world, there'll be an Optimus Prime to do battle with him. Its the same with 86...Megatron becomes Galvatron

It becomes then Galvatron vs. Rodimus Prime. Of course, Masterforce, Victory and even Zone was completely different..sure it was still G1 and it contained episodic content, like the US cartoon, but it wasn't Optimus Prime and Megatron...new enemies, new good guys and the like

Counterpunch wrote:

First Gen wrote:I think HASBRO dropped the ball a long time ago.

Uh-oh...

First, you have TAKARA, which makes good quality, awesome looking TF's, then HASBRO brings the over to us, gives us cheap plastic versions of the Die Cast originals, and sells them at the same price, i.e. 20th anniversary Prime.

1. Transformers were an American Brand first. True, Diaclone and Microman preceeded these lines in Japan, but Takara did not '1-up' Hasbro during G1.
2. Start a list for me, of all the products where Takara provided die-cast instead of plastic and Hasbro did not follow suit. BinalTech is perhaps the only real exception.
3. 20th Anniversary Prime is essentially the same product as MP Convoy. They have the same die-cast and the first releases of both were the same with the exception of battle damage and short stacks.

1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

And thats just the toys. Look at the millions of different incarnations and story lines in Japan, friggin Gundam Transformers, all kinds of fun stuff. Not to mention Japanese voice overs that even give Rodimus a set.

What? You just can't be serious. Hasbro has hooked us up with numerous exclusives, Botcon, the FanClub, and Classics, all in the past few years.

Beast Wars in all its deliciousness was an American (/Canadian) product.

Thumbs down dude.

Rabid fan-boy-ism will get debunked fast around here. Takara is an awesome company. So, is Hasbro. They both provide great product and what's more, having two companies like that gives us two distinct markets by which to get stuff.

I love Takara, without them, there would be no Masterpiece line. It's no one sided issue though and saying Hasbro is junk, just proves you're watching the wrong channel.

[quote]

Did you say "Classics"? Right. Okay dude. Anyway, what came out of BotCon or fanclub that wasn't just a repaint or tweak of a TF that already existed? I can't argue Beastwars cause I was never a fan, if you liked it, then more power to ya.

And I didn't say Hasbro was junk, Im saying that their quality and originality is WAAAY behind.

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

True, Hasbro didn't design the toys but they came up with the brand of Transformers and the surrounding idea of them being sentient robots, etc.

Hasbro is in the business of selling Toys. So I think they use familiar names for the name recognition. It's more of a risk to re-brand. It is working for them so they probably don't feel the need to take a risk and re-brand the characters. Hopefully with some money coming from the movie, they will want to take a risk and try something different afterwards.

Sadly, Hasbro aren't seeing as much money as we (or at least I) first thought. They're taking no cut from the actual film revenue, as they put no money into it, and their toy profits are apparently being split between Hasbro and Dreamworks.

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

True, Hasbro didn't design the toys but they came up with the brand of Transformers and the surrounding idea of them being sentient robots, etc.

Way to make me look stupid Leo. Way to go.

First Gen wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

True, Hasbro didn't design the toys but they came up with the brand of Transformers and the surrounding idea of them being sentient robots, etc.

Way to make me look stupid Leo. Way to go.

Seriously, that's not what I intended. I've just got to deliver the objective facts!

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

1. The toys were designed by Takara. The Transformers brand, story, and recognition were all Hasbro.
2. Not a damn one of the toys in the store today, have die cast parts except for Titaniums, which is actually a US/Hasbro only line. I don't know where you're coming from with this stuff...
3. The quality does not 'blow'. I've bought almost every piece released since Armada started. Hasbro, Takara, it's all the same stuff. I'm not even saying one is better than the other, it's all the same. It's all good.

and if you got a bad 20th Prime, you should have taken him back to the store. It's not like Hasbro or Takara would help you out over paint chipping anyway.

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

True, Hasbro didn't design the toys but they came up with the brand of Transformers and the surrounding idea of them being sentient robots, etc.

Way to make me look stupid Leo. Way to go.

Seriously, that's not what I intended. I've just got to deliver the objective facts!

Just joshin' ya Leo, when Im wrong Im wrong. Hasbro has just put out some crappy toys over the years.

I mail ordered an Optimus back in 86. I was 9. I used my own money to do it. Got it, loved it, promptly, the trailer door falls off, the trailer cart jams and wont eject. Primes fist never stayed on and the rubber wheels rolled off.

Fast foward 18 years, I get the 20th Prime, and I have the same awe and amazement, and again, I am severly dissappointed.

First Gen wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

True, Hasbro didn't design the toys but they came up with the brand of Transformers and the surrounding idea of them being sentient robots, etc.

Way to make me look stupid Leo. Way to go.

Seriously, that's not what I intended. I've just got to deliver the objective facts!

Just joshin' ya Leo, when Im wrong Im wrong. Hasbro has just put out some crappy toys over the years.

I mail ordered an Optimus back in 86. I was 9. I used my own money to do it. Got it, loved it, promptly, the trailer door falls off, the trailer cart jams and wont eject. Primes fist never stayed on and the rubber wheels rolled off.

Fast foward 18 years, I get the 20th Prime, and I have the same awe and amazement, and again, I am severly dissappointed.

I can't say I ever owned a G1 Optimus so I can't comment. However, I've had a fair few toys fall apart in my lifetime.

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

First Gen wrote:1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

True, Hasbro didn't design the toys but they came up with the brand of Transformers and the surrounding idea of them being sentient robots, etc.

Aw man, even if its a knockoff, its still a great figure to have. I have knockoffs of both OP and Megs. They both suck as far as quality, cuz they're not diaclone KO's. but still nice to have.

Way to make me look stupid Leo. Way to go.

Seriously, that's not what I intended. I've just got to deliver the objective facts!

Just joshin' ya Leo, when Im wrong Im wrong. Hasbro has just put out some crappy toys over the years.

I mail ordered an Optimus back in 86. I was 9. I used my own money to do it. Got it, loved it, promptly, the trailer door falls off, the trailer cart jams and wont eject. Primes fist never stayed on and the rubber wheels rolled off.

Fast foward 18 years, I get the 20th Prime, and I have the same awe and amazement, and again, I am severly dissappointed.

I can't say I ever owned a G1 Optimus so I can't comment. However, I've had a fair few toys fall apart in my lifetime.

First Gen:

It's ironic that here I am, arguing about how similar the Takara and Hasbro lines have been the past few years, and the news pops up today stating that Takara Movie Leader Class Prime will have die-cast...

so, feel free to laugh in my general direction

(unless of course it isn't true or the US release does as well. )

the the origional topic i say this:

for many years i have seen people ask to see something diffrent in transformers. new concepts, or maybe get rid of optimus and megatron and make someone new.

all well and good and things i dont mind seeing

however

everytime they make something new, new concept new ideas new gimmiks, everybody pisses , moans, bitches, and occasionaly issues a death threat or two

the concept for makeing new leaders probably wont ever happen. hasbro got lucky with galvatron, but when they replaced optimus with rodimus the **** storm was so huge it still goes on today. so hasbro learned = replace optimus BAD!!!! change megatron to galvatron, acceptible. takara uts in and says, lets just repaint megatron then.. its cheaper.

everytime weve been shown a new concept like oh, idk beast wars, which was arguably some of the best tf and tf stories ever.

all of a sudden, people start the **** storm, its not g1

ok ok fine then lets add machines into the mix

you ruined our beasts, and theyre not as good as g1

ok ok fine, heres a new set of g1 style figs

wow these are great! but there too hard to transform and just shell formers anywa, but keep trying!

.... ok well then heres some simple to transform throw backs to g1.

these suck, theyre not as good as beastwars.



and that is the honest truth of how we as fans generaly react, only this is the more polite version. usualy theres more cussing, swearing, and death threats

we want something diffrent, but we dont want things to change.

however, todays market is ready for new leaders i think. todays optimus and megatron arent as powerful as the icons of yesteryear. i remember when TM2 cheetor pics first leaked, and everybody was all hyped, convinced he was rodimus primal. they could have easly replaced bw optimus, and it would have been a powerful, and compelling transition...but i bet if they changed out bw megs for somone else, it would have started the proverbial poo flinging.

If the modern concept of optimus today were to die, and get replaced by a rodimus, or entirely new character, then i dont think kids would be running out of theators crying.

Immortal Starscream wrote:the the origional topic i say this:

for many years i have seen people ask to see something diffrent in transformers. new concepts, or maybe get rid of optimus and megatron and make someone new.

all well and good and things i dont mind seeing

however

everytime they make something new, new concept new ideas new gimmiks, everybody pisses , moans, bitches, and occasionaly issues a death threat or two

the concept for makeing new leaders probably wont ever happen. hasbro got lucky with galvatron, but when they replaced optimus with rodimus the **** storm was so huge it still goes on today. so hasbro learned = replace optimus BAD!!!! change megatron to galvatron, acceptible. takara uts in and says, lets just repaint megatron then.. its cheaper.

everytime weve been shown a new concept like oh, idk beast wars, which was arguably some of the best tf and tf stories ever.

all of a sudden, people start the **** storm, its not g1

ok ok fine then lets add machines into the mix

you ruined our beasts, and theyre not as good as g1

ok ok fine, heres a new set of g1 style figs

wow these are great! but there too hard to transform and just shell formers anywa, but keep trying!

.... ok well then heres some simple to transform throw backs to g1.

these suck, theyre not as good as beastwars.



and that is the honest truth of how we as fans generaly react, only this is the more polite version. usualy theres more cussing, swearing, and death threats

we want something diffrent, but we dont want things to change.

however, todays market is ready for new leaders i think. todays optimus and megatron arent as powerful as the icons of yesteryear. i remember when TM2 cheetor pics first leaked, and everybody was all hyped, convinced he was rodimus primal. they could have easly replaced bw optimus, and it would have been a powerful, and compelling transition...but i bet if they changed out bw megs for somone else, it would have started the proverbial poo flinging.

If the modern concept of optimus today were to die, and get replaced by a rodimus, or entirely new character, then i dont think kids would be running out of theators crying.

"You ruined our beasts!" lol

Comedy gold.

This thread has been great so far, and I agree, having Shredded Wheat every day can get tiring after awhile.

I ask that you only look at Star Wars and see what hapens when you "add" to a mythos.

Half hate it, half can accept/love it.

So it is with Transformers. Change can be a good thing, but not too fast. That is when you have people throwing molotovs through the windows of Hasbro's corporate offices. Metaphorically-speaking, of course.

I think a series set on the outskirts of the Great War would be interesting. I am all for it, but you cannot easily create a cultural icon, known around the world like Optimus/Convoy & Megatron.

This is why they don't change, because it is far from easy...especially when they have over 20 years of track record with charachters/toys A and B.

First Gen wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

First Gen wrote:I think HASBRO dropped the ball a long time ago.

Uh-oh...

First, you have TAKARA, which makes good quality, awesome looking TF's, then HASBRO brings the over to us, gives us cheap plastic versions of the Die Cast originals, and sells them at the same price, i.e. 20th anniversary Prime.

1. Transformers were an American Brand first. True, Diaclone and Microman preceeded these lines in Japan, but Takara did not '1-up' Hasbro during G1.
2. Start a list for me, of all the products where Takara provided die-cast instead of plastic and Hasbro did not follow suit. BinalTech is perhaps the only real exception.
3. 20th Anniversary Prime is essentially the same product as MP Convoy. They have the same die-cast and the first releases of both were the same with the exception of battle damage and short stacks.

1. HASBRO had no original concept to the Transformers. It was all taken off TAKARA.
2. Pretty much all of todays Transformers you can find in American stores.
3. The quality blows. Now if TAKARA's MP01 sucked, I dont know, I dont have one, I do have a 20th Prime, who's chest pieces never fully close, paint was chipped and light up Matrix doesn't light up. I even wrote Hasbro about that and basically got a "oh well" response.

And thats just the toys. Look at the millions of different incarnations and story lines in Japan, friggin Gundam Transformers, all kinds of fun stuff. Not to mention Japanese voice overs that even give Rodimus a set.

What? You just can't be serious. Hasbro has hooked us up with numerous exclusives, Botcon, the FanClub, and Classics, all in the past few years.

Beast Wars in all its deliciousness was an American (/Canadian) product.

Thumbs down dude.

Rabid fan-boy-ism will get debunked fast around here. Takara is an awesome company. So, is Hasbro. They both provide great product and what's more, having two companies like that gives us two distinct markets by which to get stuff.

I love Takara, without them, there would be no Masterpiece line. It's no one sided issue though and saying Hasbro is junk, just proves you're watching the wrong channel.

Did you say "Classics"? Right. Okay dude. Anyway, what came out of BotCon or fanclub that wasn't just a repaint or tweak of a TF that already existed? I can't argue Beastwars cause I was never a fan, if you liked it, then more power to ya.

And I didn't say Hasbro was junk, Im saying that their quality and originality is WAAAY behind.

you go first gen.. i would just like to add that the Hasbro exclusives are repaints and remolded heads on existing molds, and for how many of those exclusives produced there are about 20 Takara Bots per every 1 Hasbro Botcon exclusive that are from series that never made it to here because they were Japanese exclusives, and are not 200.00 a piece or so.. and are in great quality, and were featured in an anime.. from japan..which those cartoons masterforce, Victory, Zone..were still better toy wise and in style then the rehashed A/E/C

Dude, youy should research all the subsequent merchandise that arose form beast wars neo and ect.. from Takara, it will absolutely blow your mind.. they have some sweet transformers in that series..and the story line was cool.. no megs and optimus there..far off planets with battles in outland sectors.. a council of Convoys, Big convoy..the mammoth was cool, my personal favorite was Lioconvoy.. but there are sweet supporting characters too..apparantly convoy isn't like optimus prime in japan, as far as the name goes it more or less emphasises leader in definition..
even so it was totally different from A/E/C and the g-1 story.. and worthy of checking out..If I had to choose between Hasbro and their highly expensive botcon figures versus a rerelease of Japanese Victory, head Masters and Zone.. I would take Takara over Hasbro based on that..

Immortal Starscream wrote:Smart stuff about Rodimus and Galvatron.

What he said. I like Galvatron, I think he's a great villian. But let's face it(advanced apollogies to Rodimus fans)Rodimus was horrible. And I was around for the G1 season 3 poo storms, seeing kids smash Rodimus toys in anger isn't pretty(some of my friends back then were real passionate about TFs). That's why they brought Optimus Prime back towards the end, he was just more iconic.

As far as Masterforce, Victory, ect. I think those stories did well in Japan because alot of anime is done like that. New people, including leaders come and go. Gundam is a perfect example that was brought up.

While I'd like to see new leaders myself(I would really like to see Star Saber leading), it most likely won't happen in the mainstream stories. A shame really, there are some really cool TF leaders in the other series'.

First Gen wrote:
But I tell you what, the Seibertronian community here has so much talent and imagination, that I bet one of our very own could design a completely new concept behind the TF's. Probably you Skywarp.

Thanks.. i agree there is alot of talent here on Seibertron.com and as such I would love to take a stab at pitching a new side series to hasbro to change up the way they have beeen doing things lately..


See, I like the G-1 Universe, I grew up with it.. so why not go back to it.. why stick with creating a new series every year with brighter colored cars and robots that eventually look like little transformable rainbows??

lets hit on the G-1 series but take it from the perspective of a little known seldom seen or even heard about outpost "Guardian" a secret Autobot base that resembles an Air force base above ground and has holographic humans running around.. of whcih, a young woman from England who was on assignment joins the team.. which was set in the lower heavily wooded jungles of asia..

the small group of Autobots lead by.. and here I go.. this is why it would be Iconic..Captain rank..Leader One..yes a Gobot in name only.. but updated for the g-1 side story series..

Leader One an f-22 jet fighter and commander of the small team..
Ace an old time WW2 fighter and scout..Female
Heat seeker a stealth fighter-male
Bullseye a b1-bomber-male has a chip on his shoulder against Leader One and always questions his decisions..
With
Clutch a old ford type truck -male
Night ranger the long haul motorcycle..female


their mission and epic battle that was going on at the same time as the g-1 series and stopped short just before the events of the G-1 1986 movie..

mission:
Destroy the "Despoticons" a group or mindless robots whose single goal is to multiply and ravage the jungles of Asia and eventually suck the earth dry of its natural resources via consumption.. like locusts..this plague of robots that look eiriely similar to insecticons but much more gruesome and advanced, they turn into a robot that resemble the Hygog from Gundam.. or the Invid from robotech..each with individual trible markings similar to that of the clone troopers from Starwars.. each marking pattern signifies rank in their hive..you have 3 different classes

Leader: Omega Omnitron large robotic Brain..ruler of the despoticons..

Grounders-these are like smaller Invid from Robotech and transform into insects similar to ants..

Flyers- these are like Hornets and transform and fly.. their robot forms look like advanced forms of invid and the quebly from gundam.. i really need to draw these out..


Blastoids- these are large and look like the hygog from gundam in robot form, and turn into giant beetles in alt mode, they are tough and devour large objects rapidly..


Their leader is a giant robotic Brain that was cast aside in the early eons of Cybertronian history..His name is OMega Omnitron..

Omega Omnitron has enlisted simpethisers whose goal is to also destroy the Autobot command and outpost that is a thorn in their evil schemes.. that of the "Renegades" a group of Biker/car decepticons, Lead by Cy-Kill, who have infiltrated the various outlying cities in the asia community surrounding this base and silent secret war..



set as an uneasy ally to the Despoticons is the Biker/car Gang Renegades: nopte they act more like spies and mobsters and gang up on one Autobot at a time..

Cy-Kill Motorcycle leader of the Decepticon biker gang known as the renegades, whose main goal is deception and spying, or sabatoge for the Omega Omnitron..and their swarm of Despoticon minions..

Cop-tur, a small police helicopter who acts as a shadow and spy for Cy-kill.. his motives are unknown..(secretly he is a double agent and really works for the autobots..

Crasher a spoeedster Motorcycle and strong supporter of Cy-kill..

Dart is the smaller ansd fastest Renegade Decepticon motorcyle..

Fly trap- Garbage truck and heavy muscle

Gunnyr - Mig fighter jet..


well anyhow side story that wraps up just before the whole unicron thing.. and the Despoticons are destroyed, the universe is safe, Cy-kill and co.. leave earth to return to Cybertron and so does Leader One and crew..the series would have occasional cameos by Optimus prime and megatron or any other characters to tie it to g-1 but keep it seperate.. its just a thought though.. I have other concepts and ideas.. this was the 1st one off the top of my head..

Whoah, whoah, whoah, why is there no care for poor old Rodimus Prime? Wasn't he more interesting than Optimus (in the cartoon, not the toy)?

skywarp-2 wrote:If I had to choose between Hasbro and their highly expensive botcon figures versus a rerelease of Japanese Victory, head Masters and Zone.. I would take Takara over Hasbro based on that..

I trust then, that you bough Soundblaster, Twincast, and StarConvoy over the past 2 years without hesitation?



I did...

But seriously, why does this have to be a 'This' or 'That' discussion? It's ludicrous to just buy products or throw customer loyalty one way or the other here.

Both Takara and Hasbro produce awesome stuff. Each has a limited supply of exclusives.

I'll go ahead and state what I think the issue is: Those that are Takara only Fan-boys, tend to spend more money, and there by use it as a means to look down on, and act superior to other collectors and fans.

If that's not you, then pay that statement no mind. I think it's true though, especially when people argue till they're blue in the face that there is a general superiority of one product. There are differences, there are better toys on one side and then sometimes on another. It's this sweeping "Hasbro sucks" garbage that I hate.

This isn't targeted at you Skywarp, it just happens to be tagged along with my response to you.

Counterpunch wrote:

skywarp-2 wrote:If I had to choose between Hasbro and their highly expensive botcon figures versus a rerelease of Japanese Victory, head Masters and Zone.. I would take Takara over Hasbro based on that..

I trust then, that you bough Soundblaster, Twincast, and StarConvoy over the past 2 years without hesitation?



I did...

But seriously, why does this have to be a 'This' or 'That' discussion? It's ludicrous to just buy products or throw customer loyalty one way or the other here.

Both Takara and Hasbro produce awesome stuff. Each has a limited supply of exclusives.

I'll go ahead and state what I think the issue is: Those that are Takara only Fan-boys, tend to spend more money, and there by use it as a means to look down on, and act superior to other collectors and fans.

If that's not you, then pay that statement no mind. I think it's true though, especially when people argue till they're blue in the face that there is a general superiority of one product. There are differences, there are better toys on one side and then sometimes on another. It's this sweeping "Hasbro sucks" garbage that I hate.

This isn't targeted at you Skywarp, it just happens to be tagged along with my response to you.

no...no... its not about having more money and looking down on the others.. If you order at the right spot, you get the Japanese versions or exclusives at a cheap price.. I was simply stating that to disregard Takara based on price is crazy.. they have a nice selection of bots that are great in cost..their packaging is superior, no twistie ties for one thing.. and their exclusives usually range from 50.00 to 70.00 dollars.. I have yet to come accross an exclusive, with the exception of Optimus Prime complete MP-04 that exceeded the dollar value of 150.00..

The Hasbro Botcon website itself has items and box sets for sale that are 250.00!! come on!! its a repaint and reheaded group of figures with a cleaver package..not worth 250.00

I agree, I don't think the BotCon set is worth it. Of course, value is all subjective.

The twist ties thing always befuddles me. Are they really that much of a problem? They're not difficult to remove and they keep the toy secure during [international] transit.

skywarp-2 wrote:The Hasbro Botcon website itself has items and box sets for sale that are 250.00!! come on!! its a repaint and reheaded group of figures with a cleaver package..not worth 250.00

Not worth it to you.

Let's get this out of the way, you and I do not know what it costs to make, license, or use the molds and processes to produces these VERY limited figures. However,..

Small production runs = high costs

It could very well be that it is costing Master Collector $300 per set to produce these figures and that they are just drawing power to get people to the con. Much like how it costs some $900 to build a PS3, but they still sell them for $600. It's all about the other part of the market, in Playstation's case, the games.

So, $250, $280, whatever, may actually be a bargin for the set. We don't know.


All that aside...

If I am willing to pay for the set and many others are as well, at $280, then the price of the set, is $280. MC won't sell it to you at $100 or $200 because they can sell it to me at $280.

Would I like it to be cheaper? Hell yea, that'd be great. I'd also like my rent to be cheaper, my car payment to be cheaper, and my coffee (especially my $4.50 lattes) to be cheaper. But the price is the price is the price, because people are willing to pay it.

Now, MC could price themselves out of the market. Bring the toys up to $500, $600, or $1000 and more and more people will scoff and say, "No thanks, not worth it."

I full well acknowledge that the price is inflated due to the exclusive nature of the product. But I don't mind that. That is the cost of business. To make high-quality, otherwise unavialable items takes time, money, talent, and people. That all costs money.

If you feel your money is better spent buying a G1 Victory Leo, go for it. Rock on! Victory Leo kicks ass. But it's the same thing. You're paying for the exclusive and limited nature of a toy which when produced, cost about $30 US. Now you're paying $200, $250 easily.

No difference.