Rodimus Prime wrote:Very 1st thing, this is probably in a more proper place in the TF General Discussion.
Now, just to be clear (and please correct me if I am wrong about this), the point of this topic is to discuss the value of Peter Cullen as Optimus Prime to the franchise as a whole.
Not having watched The Tonight Show while Carson was hosting it, I can't really comment on his impact. I did, for years, watch it regularly with Leno as host, and I found him humorous and entertaining. Then the fiasco with Conan happened, and I kinda stopped watching since then. I catch it once in a while and it still makes me laugh, but I don't feel it necessary to watch all the time. I do have to say that from watching footage of Carson, I didn't think he was any special. Of course, being the host for 30 years had to require some talent and connection with the audience, so obviously he was good at what he did.
Does Cullen mean the same to Transformers as Carson was to The Tonight Show? That's a matter of opinion, I believe. Depending on how much emotional value you place in each of them. This might be blasphemy, especially with Geewunners, but I really don't care if Cullen voices Optimus or not, mainly due to the fact that I never cared for Optimus Prime much at all. I don't dislike the character, but I don't consider his actions the be-all end-all of Transformers. As you said, his death was very impactful emotionally on the fandom, and that is totally understandable. He was the favorite of many, and he was killed in the cartoon seemingly for no reason. He and Megatron were hurt more or less equally, but the bad guy got a pass and an improvement, while the fandom's favorite hero got canned? Way unfair to most. It might be OK to do it on a show for adults, as adults are more capable of handling the emotional impact, but to do it on a children's show? Bad move. Even if it paved the way for Rodimus, whom many dislike simply for the fact that he wasn't Optimus. But no one could be, and that was due to Cullen's effort and dedication through his talent.
I will stay to the main point, and say that in the end, other voice actors won't measure up to Cullen as Prime simply because he is the blueprint. He was the 1st to do it, and everyone will be compared. He is the one most identified with the character. IMO, I prefer Optimus Primal to Optimus in the cartoon, and it does have to do a lot with Garry Chalk's portrayal. To me he made Primal seem more human-like, thus more relatable. G1 Prime was exactly what Cullen himself has said he wanted him to be: a cartoon John Wayne. Over the top. It worked for back then, but if it were done now, it would probably fail, because the character is too simple. He transferred this quality more or less successfully to the Bay movies, as Prime from there is pretty much the same as he was in the G1 cartoon. Not much room for character development. Whether that's the writers' doing or Cullen's is debatable. I think it's a combination.
So to answer your question: Yes, Peter Cullen will be to Optimus what Johnny Carson was to Tonight. Anyone following will be forever compared.
Tronus_Rex wrote:I find it extremely, galling, when people make comparisons of Optimus Prime's G1 deaths (plural) to Jesus Christ. This is an invalid and HORRIBLE comparison.
Prime's death was against his will, meant to shock, was arguably pointless IE a waste given Megatron escaped and then became Galvatron. Also the characters successor, was portrayed, written, and handled even worse still. If Optimus's first death had any real value, kids wouldn't have come away from theaters, traumatized. Instead, inspired, by what should have been a heroism sacrifice, with lasting effects and value. A death with a meaning, that would have resulted in fans writing, epic songs about what Prime did. Even emulating the act. They didn't because their was no point and no value to it. Kids just asked, "why?", or, "what was the point?"
Now the contrast with Christ. As it is written; Jesus Christ knew what He was doing when he came to Earth, via birth as a man, in full knowledge of His mission, to be the required payment for the evils/lawbreaking/wrongdoing/selfishness/crimes/sins - of humankind. As the substitute for all individuals. Knew He would die, even struggled with it, yet he followed through, deliberately, boldly, decisively, with full clarity and knowledge. Christ knew he would die, and that it would not be a defeat, but the single most important victory as written in the Bible. Jesus even said that he would come back from the grave a full 3 days later. Jesus died as a hero, and as an example for any "masculine" man, or human in general. The death was portrayed by the written words as a choice that Jesus didn't have to make and to many made no sense. "He died for us while we were yet sinners..." The book pointed out how few would die for a noble/good person, let alone a "criminal" or "sinner". It was also a plan from the beginning "Lamb slain before the foundations of the earth...".
Prime's death was an accident, against Prime's will, and had no value.
Then, Jesus, by Himself, "...defeated the grave". Not like Optimus who to fans, and critics alike, died "like little bitch" [ xRazorFistx, Doug Walker, Linkara, ETC], for clumsy Hasbro to sell more toys, but resulting in the opposite effect.
Weather you believe what is written in the Bible or not is not important here, so please, do not start a heated angry religious debate. I'm not preaching at anyone. If you cannot handle even talking about this in a philosophical/logical debate, then, please re-frame from commenting. This is just to point out what is written about Christ and how he is perceived by those that claim to believe it. Not to discuss the accuracy of the Bible, and I will not entertain any discussion on Jesus or the Bible unless used in the context of this statement, as presented. In other words, don't debate the Bible, debate Hasbro, and fan attachment to Cullen's performance. I do not place any value statements, supporting or refuting the Bible, at this time.
Optimus death had no value, and he did not return by his own power. Optimus drove the 'Cons away, but this turned out to a little pause in the "war". It is written that Jesus died to effectively buy humankinds salvation as a Messiah. In the TF Movie, Prime didn't beat Unicron, instead it was a McGuffin device wielded by a week character.
This is a valid point, and accurate to describe how careless Hasbro has been in the past.
Slashercon wrote:Optimus seemingly had a more meaningful death in ROTF, saving Sam and allowing him to escape from enemy clutches. He at least died SAVING SOMEONE. WHO did Optimus die saving in '86? HOW did he die?
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