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Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:26 pm

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SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Many thanks for the explanation! I guess it's best to err on the side of caution. The novel I'm currently writing is a rather "standard" 300+ page one with 20-24 page chapters each, so I guess posting 2 chapters as excerpts should be okay in my case.


That might not be bad. But if one chapter will do it, or even part of that chapter, even better. For instance, for the novella I'm releasing soon, it's about 130 pages, and I posted the first chapter, which is 8 pages. And the protagonist never showed in the first chapter, but it was good enough to showcase the story's tone, conflict, and direction.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Thanks for the recommendations! I'll give those a look.


Definitely. I can't recommend "Luck of the Fryish" and Dream Catcher enough. Again, skip the lousy movie for the latter, though. Talented cast, but something just went wrong.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:But again, as an old habit that's been drilled into me from my Novel Advice days, I've been taught to always start a story from the protagonist's POV except in very extraordinary circumstances. And frankly, most of the books that didn't start with the protagonist have invariably failed to catch my attention.


I don't introduce my main protagonist until about page 9, so hopefully I pulled it off. :???:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:I try to keep do things "by the book".


No pun intended? ;)
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:52 pm

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Me, Grimlock! wrote:That might not be bad. But if one chapter will do it, or even part of that chapter, even better. For instance, for the novella I'm releasing soon, it's about 130 pages, and I posted the first chapter, which is 8 pages. And the protagonist never showed in the first chapter, but it was good enough to showcase the story's tone, conflict, and direction.


And that's why you're a professional, sir. :BOWDOWN: Readers don't have the patience to wade through pages of plot and character development, and as writers, we have to hook them (editors in particular) in the first sentence, and pray they'll read on.

I always start my stories with the protag doing what he does best, usually in a scene with a very tense atmosphere, in order to catch the reader's attention. I'm admittedly more of a Hemmingway/Gemmell type of "journalistic" writer, which meas my prose isn't the kind that can make readers fall in love with it to the point of reading just for the pleasure of it.

I have to trust the story itself to do its work, and just make sure my prose doesn't get in the way of the story-telling. :lol:

Me, Grimlock! wrote:Definitely. I can't recommend "Luck of the Fryish" and Dream Catcher enough. Again, skip the lousy movie for the latter, though. Talented cast, but something just went wrong.


I'll look for them on my next trip to the bookstore. Yeah, reading from an i-pad or Samsung Note just doesn't feel the same as flipping the pages of a good old paperback--and they don't need to be recharged. Do I sound old? :lol:

Me, Grimlock! wrote:I don't introduce my main protagonist until about page 9, so hopefully I pulled it off. :???:


Well, I sort of forgot about Ender's Shadow when I said "invariably." I loved that book, and it started off with a side character named Poke instead of Bean the protagonist. It's one of those rare exceptions where starting off with the protag would have actually been less effective.

As Card explains it, and if memory serves, he had trouble trying to let the reader fully understand Bean, and he just couldn't write past the first chapter because something felt wrong. After consulting with both his wife and his editor (or was it his agent?), he realized that Bean needed to be seen in action. And so, Poke got the honor of letting the reader see Bean in action through her eyes. I'm sure I missed some details here and there, but that's pretty much the gist of it.

IMO, it works in Ender's Shadow's case because Bean is such an enigma. The reader probably wouldn't know what to make of him without getting to know him from the outside first, because of the way he thinks. And Poke is "us", the reader. We see through her eyes how he operates.

Just my 2 cents' worth, of course.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:No pun intended? ;)


It seems you saw what I did there, good sir. :grin:

Counterpunch wrote:I wrote two books. I gave away free digital copies. I didn't get 8 pages of responses.

Well done.


Well, on the bright side, your books were good enough that they didn't need 8 pages of help and advice. Image
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Va'al » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:17 am

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Maybe. Maaayyybe we should do something with this kind of thing. :-?

There are enough creative writers on here that we could use a thread in a very constructive way (much as this one ended up being, eventually, for some), perhaps even in the fan fiction section. Hmmmm.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:37 am

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Va'al wrote:Maybe. Maaayyybe we should do something with this kind of thing. :-?

There are enough creative writers on here that we could use a thread in a very constructive way (much as this one ended up being, eventually, for some), perhaps even in the fan fiction section. Hmmmm.


That's actually a great idea.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby 8 bit » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:00 pm

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Va'al wrote:Maybe. Maaayyybe we should do something with this kind of thing. :-?

There are enough creative writers on here that we could use a thread in a very constructive way (much as this one ended up being, eventually, for some), perhaps even in the fan fiction section. Hmmmm.

I agree that this thread has been very constructive and helpful. I've learned about some new resources for my writing, and just reading what other people on this site are working on sort of gets your creative juices going.

I'm about 21,200 words into this project: books-about-physics-string-theory-space-and-time-t72371s900.php I finally decided to move on from researching and started writing in January. BTW, thanks MeGrimlock for the idea of viewing the NOVA Elegant Universe video before reading the book; it helped immensely!

Another thing that helped me finally get started with sitting down to write this winter was listening to writing podcasts. I drove from Illinois to Florida in January, and listening to professional writers talk about their projects and ways they make their stories more interesting was a great way to learn more. The Narrative Breakdown and Writing for Rookies are two that I remember off the top of my head, but there's tons more out there.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:53 am

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SKYWARPED_128 wrote:And that's why you're a professional, sir. :BOWDOWN: Readers don't have the patience to wade through pages of plot and character development, and as writers, we have to hook them (editors in particular) in the first sentence, and pray they'll read on.


Heheheh. Don't worship me yet. The book's not out yet. I'll post a link when it is (should be soon) and you can see for yourself if it works.

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Me, Grimlock! wrote:Definitely. I can't recommend "Luck of the Fryish" and Dream Catcher enough. Again, skip the lousy movie for the latter, though. Talented cast, but something just went wrong.


I'll look for them on my next trip to the bookstore. Yeah, reading from an i-pad or Samsung Note just doesn't feel the same as flipping the pages of a good old paperback--and they don't need to be recharged. Do I sound old? :lol:


One's a TV episode, but I catch your drift. And no, you don't sound old. I prefer paper over screen any day. Save my eyes.

Va'al wrote:Maybe. Maaayyybe we should do something with this kind of thing. :-?

There are enough creative writers on here that we could use a thread in a very constructive way (much as this one ended up being, eventually, for some), perhaps even in the fan fiction section. Hmmmm.


What have you got in mind?

8 bit wrote:I'm about 21,200 words into this project: books-about-physics-string-theory-space-and-time-t72371s900.php I finally decided to move on from researching and started writing in January. BTW, thanks MeGrimlock for the idea of viewing the NOVA Elegant Universe video before reading the book; it helped immensely!


:shock: Whoa. I'd totally forgotten about that thread!
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:17 pm

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Anyone want to read my second story? This one's still in its first draft stage, so I'm pretty much open to anything.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:58 pm

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Me, Grimlock! wrote:Heheheh. Don't worship me yet. The book's not out yet. I'll post a link when it is (should be soon) and you can see for yourself if it works.


Waiting with bated breath. :D

SlyTF1 wrote:Anyone want to read my second story? This one's still in its first draft stage, so I'm pretty much open to anything.


Ladies and gents, witness the power of advertizing. Image

Oh, what the heck, I'll bite. I really can't afford the time to critique anything, but curiosity's gotten the better of me. The most I can do is browse through and give you a general opinion of what I feel about story, and maybe add some suggestions on the plot. Be forewarned, though; I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to these things and you might not like everything I say.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:41 pm

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SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Anyone want to read my second story? This one's still in its first draft stage, so I'm pretty much open to anything.


Ladies and gents, witness the power of advertizing. Image

Oh, what the heck, I'll bite. I really can't afford the time to critique anything, but curiosity's gotten the better of me. The most I can do is browse through and give you a general opinion of what I feel about story, and maybe add some suggestions on the plot. Be forewarned, though; I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to these things and you might not like everything I say.


That's the point.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:03 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Anyone want to read my second story? This one's still in its first draft stage, so I'm pretty much open to anything.


Ladies and gents, witness the power of advertizing. Image

Oh, what the heck, I'll bite. I really can't afford the time to critique anything, but curiosity's gotten the better of me. The most I can do is browse through and give you a general opinion of what I feel about story, and maybe add some suggestions on the plot. Be forewarned, though; I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to these things and you might not like everything I say.


That's the point.


So, do you want me to read it or what?
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:21 am

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Hey, SlyTF1, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I've had to deal with a couple of publishing-related crises lately. Anyway, I've been slowly reading your story over--I'm about halfway through--and not bad so far. There are a few mistakes I'm noticing crop up a lot, though, that you should watch out for. You said I could post comments on here, so I'll do that:

1. You have a habit of combining dialog with sentences that aren't dialog tags. What I mean is this: a dialog tag is a "he said/she asked" sentence. But you'll combine dialog with a sentence that isn't its tag, like:

"Bathin, man. Nice to meet you," He reached out to shake Varris's hand.


Always pair up dialog with its tag. But don't pair it up with something that isn't.

2. Conversely, you have a habit of separating dialog from its tag:

"The altairian is clearly mad. Is there any question as to why he's done what he's done?," One other council member responded.


You'll notice you capitalize one. It's a dialog tag. It's part of the same sentence.

3. You use double punctuation. Notice in the sentence above, you have a comma and a question mark. Use only one punctuation mark. One exclamation point, one period, one question mark. I know you see multiple punctuation for one sentence in comics, but comic punctuation is more relaxed. Moreover, if a character is speaking loudly, let the dialog or the mood do the work. Don't rely on !!!!!!! or ??!!!

4. I'd generally stick to said and asked for dialog tags about 99% of the time, not interrupted or exclaimed or any other fancy words. The reason is said and asked are the most invisible dialog tags, and the dialog itself needs to do the heavy lifting. Make the dialog tags unnoticeable so the dialog stands out. True, you'll need to resort to other words sometimes, but they should be the vast exception.

Another reason is those fancier words are usually redundant. I can tell when a character is exclaiming if you've worked the dialog right. I don't need to be told outright. Same thing with interrupting: you've used that word a few times when the dialog itself shows the interruption. You don't need to tell us. It's redundant.

5. And, not to belabor dialog tags, but you often have a character sighing words they can't sigh.

"I expect you to not go around insulting other prisoners behind their backs. I expect... you didn't... you didn't have to stick a fork in his eye," the Warden sighed .


The warden can't sigh all that, and some phonetic sounds like p and k are too sharp for sighing.

Same goes for hissing: there are some phonetic sounds you just can't hiss.

6. Watch your homonyms or closely related words: affect vs. effect, appoint vs. a point, wander vs. wonder, literal vs. something that's not literal, etc. And, while we're on the subject, check out the difference between lay vs. lie, which vs. that (yes, there's a difference), between (to compare two things) vs. among (to compare more than two things), etc.

7. You should review your capitalization. Some species names should be capitalized, I would think. I know we don't really do that on Earth (dog, cat, snake, human, etc.) but in sci-fi, you often see species names capitalized: Vulcan, Wookiee, etc. You should do this especially if it's part of their nation name: we do capitalize American, Canadian, Ukranian, Chinaman, etc. So if bootean is the name of a nation or planet, I'd capitalize it.

But your species names don't get all the capitalizing fun. You capitalize a lot of common nouns: master key, for one. There were a few others, but none come to mind.

8. You relate a lot of things to Earth things. That's not a mistake per se since this place is in the Milky Way Galaxy and people might know about us, but if they do, your readers haven't been told. Moreover, even if they did, would they necessarily relate things to Earth things? They seem pretty removed from us. Stay in your characters' heads. Stay in the location. Don't relate to things outside their realm of experience. If they don't know what a TV remote is, don't mention it, even if you're trying to get something across to the reader, because you'll break your readers' relationship with the character's thoughts and personality.

9. You have a lot of words you can cut. A good idea is to cut as many words as you can from your work. Less is more. For instance,

"Screw this," Varris finally said, out loud.

The fantasies of mass destruction and mayhem he dreamed up and planned out in his head kept him sedated for as long as they could.

"I can," he reassured. He could tell it worked, seeing as though/since he was still alive.

A few long hours after the Warden's talk with Varris, before the station's artificial night system activated, the guards stationed every prisoner to their cells, ushering commands and making demands to get everyone into the place they'd remain for the duration of the night.


And there are more than a few instances of the word that you could cut. Also, watch your qualifiers: especially, finally, just etc. People like to use them for emphasis when, really, the emphasis doesn't need to be there. Think of the statement "whole entire world." "World" would do. We know the world is whole and entire. Sometimes you can cut these qualifiers entirely. (See what I did? Entirely doesn't need to be there. The sentence can do without it just fine.) Then again, sometimes you do want the emphasis. Decide for yourself.

10. Lastly, check out active sentences vs. passive sentences. Active sentences are more direct, when the subject of the sentence is the doer. Passive is more indirect. Check this difference:

Passive: Varris was surprised by Grough's competence.

Active: Grough's competence surprised Varris.


The active sentence is punchier and drives the point home more. Passive sentences muffle the point by padding it with more words. Now, there's a place for passive sentences, like if you want to emphasize something other than the doer (maybe you want Varris to be the focus of the sentence, not Grough's competence) or if the doer isn't stated ("Mistakes were made", "The butler was murdered"), but review your passive sentences and decide for yourself if active would get the point across more clearly.

Anyway, not bad. I still have some reading to do, but I figured I'd give you an update.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:49 am

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Me, Grimlock! wrote:Hey, SlyTF1, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. I've had to deal with a couple of publishing-related crises lately. Anyway, I've been slowly reading your story over--I'm about halfway through--and not bad so far. There are a few mistakes I'm noticing crop up a lot, though, that you should watch out for. You said I could post comments on here, so I'll do that:

1. You have a habit of combining dialog with sentences that aren't dialog tags. What I mean is this: a dialog tag is a "he said/she asked" sentence. But you'll combine dialog with a sentence that isn't its tag, like:

"Bathin, man. Nice to meet you," He reached out to shake Varris's hand.


Always pair up dialog with its tag. But don't pair it up with something that isn't.

2. Conversely, you have a habit of separating dialog from its tag:

"The altairian is clearly mad. Is there any question as to why he's done what he's done?," One other council member responded.


You'll notice you capitalize one. It's a dialog tag. It's part of the same sentence.

3. You use double punctuation. Notice in the sentence above, you have a comma and a question mark. Use only one punctuation mark. One exclamation point, one period, one question mark. I know you see multiple punctuation for one sentence in comics, but comic punctuation is more relaxed. Moreover, if a character is speaking loudly, let the dialog or the mood do the work. Don't rely on !!!!!!! or ??!!!

4. I'd generally stick to said and asked for dialog tags about 99% of the time, not interrupted or exclaimed or any other fancy words. The reason is said and asked are the most invisible dialog tags, and the dialog itself needs to do the heavy lifting. Make the dialog tags unnoticeable so the dialog stands out. True, you'll need to resort to other words sometimes, but they should be the vast exception.

Another reason is those fancier words are usually redundant. I can tell when a character is exclaiming if you've worked the dialog right. I don't need to be told outright. Same thing with interrupting: you've used that word a few times when the dialog itself shows the interruption. You don't need to tell us. It's redundant.

5. And, not to belabor dialog tags, but you often have a character sighing words they can't sigh.

"I expect you to not go around insulting other prisoners behind their backs. I expect... you didn't... you didn't have to stick a fork in his eye," the Warden sighed .


The warden can't sigh all that, and some phonetic sounds like p and k are too sharp for sighing.

Same goes for hissing: there are some phonetic sounds you just can't hiss.

6. Watch your homonyms or closely related words: affect vs. effect, appoint vs. a point, wander vs. wonder, literal vs. something that's not literal, etc. And, while we're on the subject, check out the difference between lay vs. lie, which vs. that (yes, there's a difference), between (to compare two things) vs. among (to compare more than two things), etc.

7. You should review your capitalization. Some species names should be capitalized, I would think. I know we don't really do that on Earth (dog, cat, snake, human, etc.) but in sci-fi, you often see species names capitalized: Vulcan, Wookiee, etc. You should do this especially if it's part of their nation name: we do capitalize American, Canadian, Ukranian, Chinaman, etc. So if bootean is the name of a nation or planet, I'd capitalize it.

But your species names don't get all the capitalizing fun. You capitalize a lot of common nouns: master key, for one. There were a few others, but none come to mind.

8. You relate a lot of things to Earth things. That's not a mistake per se since this place is in the Milky Way Galaxy and people might know about us, but if they do, your readers haven't been told. Moreover, even if they did, would they necessarily relate things to Earth things? They seem pretty removed from us. Stay in your characters' heads. Stay in the location. Don't relate to things outside their realm of experience. If they don't know what a TV remote is, don't mention it, even if you're trying to get something across to the reader, because you'll break your readers' relationship with the character's thoughts and personality.

9. You have a lot of words you can cut. A good idea is to cut as many words as you can from your work. Less is more. For instance,

"Screw this," Varris finally said, out loud.

The fantasies of mass destruction and mayhem he dreamed up and planned out in his head kept him sedated for as long as they could.

"I can," he reassured. He could tell it worked, seeing as though/since he was still alive.

A few long hours after the Warden's talk with Varris, before the station's artificial night system activated, the guards stationed every prisoner to their cells, ushering commands and making demands to get everyone into the place they'd remain for the duration of the night.


And there are more than a few instances of the word that you could cut. Also, watch your qualifiers: especially, finally, just etc. People like to use them for emphasis when, really, the emphasis doesn't need to be there. Think of the statement "whole entire world." "World" would do. We know the world is whole and entire. Sometimes you can cut these qualifiers entirely. (See what I did? Entirely doesn't need to be there. The sentence can do without it just fine.) Then again, sometimes you do want the emphasis. Decide for yourself.

10. Lastly, check out active sentences vs. passive sentences. Active sentences are more direct, when the subject of the sentence is the doer. Passive is more indirect. Check this difference:

Passive: Varris was surprised by Grough's competence.

Active: Grough's competence surprised Varris.


The active sentence is punchier and drives the point home more. Passive sentences muffle the point by padding it with more words. Now, there's a place for passive sentences, like if you want to emphasize something other than the doer (maybe you want Varris to be the focus of the sentence, not Grough's competence) or if the doer isn't stated ("Mistakes were made", "The butler was murdered"), but review your passive sentences and decide for yourself if active would get the point across more clearly.

Anyway, not bad. I still have some reading to do, but I figured I'd give you an update.


Yeah, most of the capitalization and punctuation mistakes are simply typos. I think I've fixed most of them since I sent you the story, but I'll double check just in case. And yeah, I didn't capitalize the species because you don't capitalize "human," or "dog." But since these are species many people have never heard of, yeah, I guess it makes sense to capitalize them as to avoid confusion. I capitalized the planets, just not the species.

Also, TV remotes are devices used on every planet, not just Earth.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby Me, Grimlock! » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:29 pm

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Hey everyone,

SlyTF1, I'm still working on it. Sorry it's taken so long to get through it, but I've had some snags in my own publishing world. But...on that note...

Just popped on here to announce that it's finally arrived and is available to buy! Check out the first issue of In a Galaxy Far, Far Awry, Serial Fiction Sideshow, on Amazon.com. For everyone who wanted to check it out, there it is! :grin: :grin: :grin: I'm giddy.

The Kindle version isn't far behind. If you do get it, make sure to review it. That helps bump the ranking and the book's exposure, making sure the series continues on a faster basis. Issue 2 isn't far behind either.
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:54 am

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Me, Grimlock! wrote:Hey everyone,

SlyTF1, I'm still working on it. Sorry it's taken so long to get through it, but I've had some snags in my own publishing world. But...on that note...

Just popped on here to announce that it's finally arrived and is available to buy! Check out the first issue of In a Galaxy Far, Far Awry, Serial Fiction Sideshow, on Amazon.com. For everyone who wanted to check it out, there it is! :grin: :grin: :grin: I'm giddy.

The Kindle version isn't far behind. If you do get it, make sure to review it. That helps bump the ranking and the book's exposure, making sure the series continues on a faster basis. Issue 2 isn't far behind either.


If I had the money I'd probably read it. I also saw your **** on You Tube promoting it. And just the other week, I was in a book store checking to see if they had any IDW TF comics I don't already have (they didn't), and I heard some people talking about a lack of comedy sci-fi books and how someone was trying to write a comedy sci-fi, or something like that. Maybe it's coincidence, or maybe there's an uprising starting for that that genre.

Now, for my ****. I've been holding off on making any major changes to the story until you finish reading it. I want to make sure I get all my feedback in place before moving on anything. I have an entire section I want to add, but I'm not sure if it would even benefit the story or drag it down. It might even be a bit too weird.

And for the record, I already have two sequels written, but I want to get this done before I go and start editing those.
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SlyTF1
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Re: Wrote a book. Need criticisms.

Postby SlyTF1 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:00 pm

Motto: "If my first sacrifice wasn't enough, maybe you would prefer to pay with your funky blood."
Weapon: Sword
Over the past few months, I've been editing and refining my work. The story itself is pretty much exactly the same, except I've added some things that give some more clarification to the lore, the settings, and the characters, especially the protagonist. Even though, to me, it seems a bit melodramatic, but apparently, that's what makes for a good character. Even though most of the feedback I got regarding the characters was positive, I figured I could flesh them out and elaborate on why they are the way they are a little more than I did initially, which slows the pacing down a bit from the break-neck speed the story ran at before.

There's also a passage before the actual story that gives some insight on where I want to take the overall story in the future, and a major, major aspect of this universe that wasn't even mentioned in my previous draft. I'm not sure, though, that I explained it as well as I could have here. I'm not even sure if I even want to reveal it in the first story, or hold off on it and let it become apparent over time. Which is one of a few reasons I want to get some more feedback.

Now, I'd prefer it if only the people who read the first draft would read this one, that way I'm not just giving out hundreds of free copies to anyone who asks, but since I'm a generous and gracious being, I'll let it slide. Only to the first five people who are interested, though. This isn't a charity, this is serious business. And if you contribute, I'll be in your debt. I'm getting closer and closer to the point where I'm just about to drop this **** (not quit, but, like how musicians drop records), and let it ride, finished or not. So, if anyone wants to help, now'sche the time. If not, well, I'll just release it in a few days, anyway.
I Am.
User avatar
SlyTF1
Faction Commander
Posts: 4759
News Credits: 37
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:34 am
Location: The Kingdom of Heaven
Watch SlyTF1 on YouTube
Alt Mode: The entire universe
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: Infinity
Speed: 10+
Endurance: 9
Rank: 10
Courage: 8
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

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