I've been sitting back and watching the various points going by, and there have been a lot of good ones on both sides, but this is one that I feel has been brought up before(Not necessarily here but I've heard it before) that I think is grossly in need of discussion.
AcademyofDrX wrote:The debate legitimizes and amplifies their point of view. It's better for everyone if you mute and move on rather than engage, in my opinion. Healthier, too.
This concept of "We can't discuss it because that only legitimizes it" is flawed in....just so many ways. It seems to imply that there are only two states to an arguement: Either it's discussed and therefore it exists, or it's not discussed and it ceases to exist, like Tinkerbell. This si wrong. To the first point, on discussing a subject legitimizes it. If this were true then I think it would be safe to simply undo most of our laws on the books that currently stand. If we took the stance that opinions and arguements we don't agree with need not even be acknowledged, then we can undo Roe v Wade, because it was illegal before as we need not legitimize the desire for abortion rights by giving it a platform. We can roll back the civil rights act(Oh wait, we already are...different subject) because those peoples protest need not be legitimized. If you refused to engage with something simply because you don't agree with it, you remove first any incentive to talk at all, and after that, as the saying goes, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolutuion inevitable".
Then there's the flip side of this arguement, that if we don't engage with the arguement, if we don't legitimize it by giving it a platform, then it will simply go away on its own. Well, to borrow the Nazi example you gave, we have disbarred, deplatformed, hounded, harrassed, humiliated, and sometimes even killed people for espousing Nazi ideals. Surely if this worked they should all be gone now. Checkmate, Yahtzee, everyone can go home now. Game, Set, and Match. Oh wait....
As it turns out if you just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist that doesn't actually make it not exist. I find it odd that I have to point this out in a thread about BLM when one of the tenants of BLM is that not talking about Police Abuse is not going to make Police Abuse go away. As we've seen if you DON'T respond to the points you disagree with, if you DON'T counter their messages, if you DON'T refute their idealogy, then you have actually FURTHER legitimized their position by showing that they are unopposed. You won't debate them so surely there isn't a need to debate them. You won't even give them a platform? Then that makes them the underdog, and why are they the underdog, why is their message being surpressed? It's the Streisand effect in action at that point, and you've still legitimized them all the same.
It's been said before by other people and I'm going to repeat it here: Sunlight IS the best disinfectant. If you don't like something, speak out against it. If you think something is wrong, speak out against it. I have. Everyone in this thread has to one degree or another. If you refuse to then at best you let your opponent win unopposed, and at worst you could be accused of tacitly supporting it. Afterall, silence is violence, right? You wouldn't secretly be supporting the Nazi by not speaking out, would you?
I will agree with you on one point, though, because you aren't wrong, and I'll apologize if I was a bit mean in making my point. There is little point in discussing anything with anyone these days. NOt because it somehow legitimizes or deligimizes them, I think I've already established that, but because we have all taken such a hard stance on our issues that they're less arguements now and more articles of faith. K-bat up there could give you a THOUSAND articles, videos, news segments, testimonials, anecdotes, anythng and everything in the world, and would that make you change your mind? I doubt it. Ask yourself this, just for introspection: What evidence COULD be presented to you that actually WOULD make you change your mind and your position? Think really hard about that because it's a very important question. Make a list, and then go looking for it. Try, just try to disprove yourself. If you can't come up with anything it means that your arguements aren't actually arguements, they're faith. And Faith is untouchable. It cannot be reasoned away, logicked to peices, or even argued because faith doesn't need evidence. It only needs belief. And nothing shuts down a conversation faster than realising that you're not longer discussing evidence, but believe.
There's a lot of that on both sides. It's why we have to more or less agree to disagree because we are set in our positions and refuse to budge. It's why I do my level best to try and remain neutral because I know how to make the arguement for either side and I don't want to fall into that trap. It's also why I keep coming back here to speak out and keep the conversation going because THIS is the only thing that will break people out of those positions, even if the chances are small and the odds slim.
Edit: Holy crap my spelling and grammar were off. Let this be a lesson to you, kids. Never post first thing in the morning. The only way to start your day is a well balanced breakfast.
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