The Energon Pub

News Credits: 7 · by **alldarker** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:12 am

Autobot032 wrote:HP might be great for the here and now, but we have no idea what the long term effects are. It's literally changing the chemical makeup of the plastics to create that recoloring effect. Same with dye, but it's not nearly as harsh as HP. Though you have to be careful not to get the water too hot, otherwise you'll warp the plastic.

Well... It's not as if sunlight had such a great effect on the plastic. Let's be honest, HP is almost always only used on those toys (out of box) whose display (and monetary) value has already gone down significantly due to the discoloration. Even if, in a couple of years time, it might turn out that HP has a brittling effect on all plastics comparable to GPS, I do believe that restoring those toys by using HP is doing them a favor, even if it's only for a couple of extra years.
The most useful AND scientific stuff I have been able to find regarding the use of HP is on this site.
Anyhow, seeing as UV damage doesn't actually seem to be the problem of the topic starter, it might be time to get back on topic...

by **Andrius** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:53 am

Why do certain white plastics turn yellow, and others not? Is there any way of predicting this?

My apartment gets a large amount of sunlight -- which is great, except in terms of displaying TFs. I've had some plastic stay white, even after years of direct sunlight, while others go yellow after contact with filtered or indirect light.

Any thoughts?

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:10 am

The major cause for so-called yellowing is UV radiation, and not just from sunlight. Even fluorescent bulbs can discolor plastic. It all comes down to how the plastic is composed.

Fortunately, it's reversible, but it's very dangerous as it involves peroxide.

News Credits: 3 · by **Samsonator** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:10 am

As I recall it's something about the chemical composition of the various white plastics. You'll get it a lot less with newer stuff, but there are still cases where yellowing is a problem.

News Credits: 402 · by **Mkall** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:21 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Fortunately, it's reversible, but it's very dangerous as it involves peroxide.

I believe Counterpunch can shed more light on this comment, but I believe reversible is the wrong term. I think it's being changed further and the fact that it looks white again is just a side effect.

News Credits: 127 · by **Counterpunch** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:35 am

Mkall wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Fortunately, it's reversible, but it's very dangerous as it involves peroxide.

I believe Counterpunch can shed more light on this comment, but I believe reversible is the wrong term. I think it's being changed further and the fact that it looks white again is just a side effect.

Yup, Mkall is phrasing it correctly.

Yellowing is not reversable. The plastic is further altered by the oxidation process.

As to why some plastics yellow and others don't, it all depends on the chemical make up of the plastic. I find that the harder, less grainy plastics take the longest to yellow, but that doesn't necessarily speak to the chemical composition of how they are made.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:11 pm

Well, at least it'd turn back white, right?

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:54 pm

Peroxide combined with UV light will do the trick. I took a very yellowed G1 Jetfire to bone white. So far I can see no adverse effects.

News Credits: 127 · by **Counterpunch** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:33 pm

El Duque wrote:Peroxide combined with UV light will do the trick. I took a very yellowed G1 Jetfire to bone white. So far I can see no adverse effects.

Not to beat a dead horse on this issue, but I have to state this again...

Peroxide and UV light will change yellowed plastic back to its original color. It will not change the plastic back to its original state.

Knowing that, without a few years of time gone by, we will not know if the plastic will stay the same, re-yellow, or deteriorate from the treatment. It may be just fine and a great solution. Or 5 years from now, we may have plastic pieces falling apart left and right due to the treatment. We don't know yet.

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:44 pm

I totally agree, long term effects have yet to be determined. That's why I used a spare Jetfire for the project, it was yellowed to the point of being a junker anyway.

by **Rodimus the Prime** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:09 pm

Can any of you detail how to do this UV/ Peroxide trick?

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:05 pm

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Can any of you detail how to do this UV/ Peroxide trick?

The TFWiki has given a little explanation. It basically involves disassembling the figure, putting the yellowed part in a container with hydrogen peroxide solution (percentage is not specified, though starting at 10% is advised. Do not go near the 40%-50% mark!) and leaving the whole exposed to sunlight for a period of time.

As said before, any long-term effects are yet to surface, but as of August 2009 there have been no disastrous reports about this treatment. Also, working with peroxide is risky business. So unless you're an expert at chemistry or bleach the hair of your girlfriend on a regular basis (the latter applies to me btw) I'd leave it to someone else.

by **Rodimus the Prime** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:42 pm

I see!
Thanks man! Much appreciated!

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:50 pm

Rodimus the Prime wrote:Can any of you detail how to do this UV/ Peroxide trick?

I use 29% hydrogen peroxide that I purchase at a pool supply store. Disassemble the figure and remove as much metal as possible, as it will oxidize and rust. The oxidation can be removed, but why bother if you don't have to? Completely submerge the yellowed parts in the peroxide in a clear glass sealable container and place in direct sun light. I recommend occasionally stirring your parts to ensure they are getting equal exposure to the sun. It can takes minutes or hours depending on the level of yellowness, the strength of your peroxide, and the intensity of the sun light. Once the level of whiteness has been achieved remove the parts, rinse them in fresh water, and lay them out to dry. Just be careful and use rubber gloves, if the high strength peroxide comes into contact with your skin it will sting and temporarily turn your skin white. It will go away in about an hour.

Here's a link to an older topic on the subject: removing-yellowing-t66114s10.php

I posted some pics of my results toward the bottom of the page.

by **MidAge** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:55 pm

Keep it in shadow.....

if toy needs removing dust, pay attention not to use any kind of water.

News Credits: 13 · by **grimdragon2001** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:14 pm

im just going to note that it is a very bad idea to use peroxide on newer TFs like the classics line. i tried it with my classics starscream and ramjet, and thier plastic became brittled and broke apart

News Credits: 33 · by **Amelie** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:39 pm

I'm gonna go on record and state that I have never, ever, ever in all 26 years of owning Transformers have I had a problem with yellowing\greening figures - and my house stunk of cigarettes for a good 10 of those years too. The only yellowed figures I own or have owned were yellow to begin with - and they haven't got worse.

The only thing that is different about my house from most other peoples is that the light is so poor here. 60W Bulbs at the most - protected with a shade. Like a dungeon - very little direct sunlight.

by **Rodimus the Prime** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:15 pm

Thank you El Duque!! I appreciate it!

And thanks for the additional tips MidAge & Grimdragon!

I think what I'll do is test it on an old, throw-away Star Wars figure first.

News Credits: 33 · by **Amelie** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:17 pm

Rodimus the Prime wrote:I think what I'll do is test it on an old, throw-away Star Wars figure first.

Don't do it to an old 70s\80s Kenner one, though - they're mainly rubber and aren't made of very good materials.

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:10 am

Amelie wrote:
Rodimus the Prime wrote:I think what I'll do is test it on an old, throw-away Star Wars figure first.

Don't do it to an old 70s\80s Kenner one, though - they're mainly rubber and aren't made of very good materials.

And are freaking expensive.

Also there is, instead of just the expensive peroxide this:
http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Retr0Bright+Gel

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:04 am

I tried using the Retr0brite gel method, bit found straight Peroxide worked better.

News Credits: 11 · by **kirbenvost** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:53 am

I just recently found out that my previously minty-white G1 Jetfire got slightly yellowed just from displaying him near the window, not even in direct sunlight. Display fail.

News Credits: 2 · by **goshjosh95** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:04 pm

Counterpunch wrote:Knowing that, without a few years of time gone by, we will not know if the plastic will stay the same, re-yellow, or deteriorate from the treatment.

I completely misread this as "or detonate from the treatment," accompanied by a ridiculous picture in my mind. That's how you can tell you're exhausted at the end of a long work day.

It may be just fine and a great solution. Or 5 years from now, we may have plastic pieces falling apart left and right due to the treatment. We don't know yet.

That's what worries me most... hard to say & only time will tell if there's chemical/structural damage being done to the plastic through the oxidation process.

News Credits: 100 · by **-Kanrabat-** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:41 pm

I have a vintage

Apeface

, complete. Head, shield, gun. This is the only Transformer that survived my childhood. (G1 Optimus Prime and the Protectobots team will be remembered for their sacrifice.) I thought about selling him on Ebay, but eternal regrets are not worth 60$-100$.

Of course, I played with him a lot and he is in a serious need for being refreshed.

I already ordered a brand new sticker sheet off Ebay for 9$ (shipping included). Now there's two more serious steps to make.

His white plastic parts are now yellow. How to make them white again without causing some serious damage to the rest of the toy?

Also, one of his ape arms is a little loose. This need some fixing as well.

Please, is there some kind Transformers handyman out there who can give me some pointers? Thanks in advance!

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:58 pm

I can give you some advice on the yellowed white plastics. You'll need some high strength hydrogen peroxide and a clear sealable glass container. Disassemble the figure and place the yellowed pieces in the container and cover with hydrogen peroxide, seal the container, and place in direct sunlight. Leave the parts in the hydrogen peroxide until they have returned to their original whiteness. You may need to shake or stir the parts so they get equal exposure to the sunlight. Be careful with the hydrogen peroxide if it touches your skin it will sting and temporarily turn your skin white, use gloves. It's not really know what the long term effects of this process are, some have reported brittleness, others report no ill effects at all. I've used the process several times and haven't had any problems. I restored a yellowed G1 Jetfire to his former glory some time ago and everything seems fine. As for tightening the joints there are many methods depending on the type of joint you are working on.