The Energon Pub

[SW's SilverHammer]

It was established in a mix of classic series, books, audio, modern series and games.

Unless Missy simply did not know.

Well the reason I asked is because, wasn't it established the Russell T Davies era, daleks have some sort of internalized time travel device? I mean that's very recent, you can't really excuse that much discontinuity with something that recent.

I was going to suggest that the technology was lost to them after the Time War, but then...yeah, they do have internalized time travel stuff. Or at least the Cult of Skaro does, maybe it's restricted to just them?

Possibly, but it's suggested that other time war era daleks had some minor time travel internalization at the very least.

[Stuartmaximus]

Ach it's just an origin story of Davros! well....seeing him as a kid is kinda an origin story, even though we don't get to see how he goes from looking like that to how he looks today, but maybe we'll see that in next weeks show.

Also

How did he escape from that predicament that we last saw him in?(the Tennant years). coz I saw no mention of how he escaped in last nights episode

Another thing

Why set up that red herring that Clara, Missy & the Tardis have been killed or destroyed when we know full well they'll reappear in the following episodes? coz from information the Internet gives us(like episode guides) we can already establish that they survive from the series 9 compilation trailer we got....We've already seen shots of Clara, Missy ect from other episodes that were not scenes from last night's one! so it's almost like Moffat is insulting the fandoms intelligence....& that we cannot already work those things out for ourselves, or find information on the Internet that establishes their survival.

[ZeroWolf]

How else would you add tension? You already know that the doctor will survive to next season if you want to play that card.

[Stuartmaximus]

How else would you add tension? You already know that the doctor will survive to next season if you want to play that card.

Btw it's Clara, Missy & the Tardis! not the Doc I was referring to + it's a bit redundant to add tension when we already know of their survival in hindsight(Internet info, trailers ect) now granted not everyone will look at those, but SOME will.

+ even if you haven't looked at all that info....do you honestly believe that they'd kill off some main characters as well as destroying the doctors iconic method of transportation in the first episode?

[Shadowman]

How else would you add tension? You already know that the doctor will survive to next season if you want to play that card.

Btw it's Clara, Missy & the Tardis! not the Doc I was referring to + it's a bit redundant to add tension when we already know of their survival in hindsight(Internet info, trailers ect) now granted not everyone will look at those, but SOME will.

+ even if you haven't looked at all that info....do you honestly believe that they'd kill off some main characters as well as destroying the doctors iconic method of transportation in the first episode?

That was ZeroWolf's point; the whole "Do you think they'd really just kill them?" argument can apply to any character, not just Clara or the Master or the TARDIS, but that in doing so you sort of kill any sort of tension the show could provide.

[Burn]

So StewieMax, from everything you've seen in trailers, how do you think Clara will leave?

[Stuartmaximus]

Unsure? + that obviously won't happen til the last few episodes or final one! but you can't use that as an excuse that we still don't believe that they'll not survive beyond episode one! as I stated previously....it's not JUST the trailers! but OTHER Internet information too(episode guides ect) that indicates their survival beyond episode one

[Burn]

Unsure? + that obviously won't happen til the last few episodes or final one!

Or she could be gone by the end of episode 3. DW productions are incredibly secretive. We didn't expect her first appearance, and we may not have expected her departure either as I got the impression they weren't expecting confirmation of her new role.

but you can't use that as an excuse that we still don't believe that they'll not survive beyond episode one! as I stated previously....it's not JUST the trailers! but OTHER Internet information too(episode guides ect) that indicates their survival beyond episode one

I never believed it anyway and I watched the season trailer once and haven't read anything else.

[Stuartmaximus]

Unsure? + that obviously won't happen til the last few episodes or final one!

Or she could be gone by the end of episode 3. DW productions are incredibly secretive. We didn't expect her first appearance, and we may not have expected her departure either as I got the impression they weren't expecting confirmation of her new role.

but you can't use that as an excuse that we still don't believe that they'll not survive beyond episode one! as I stated previously....it's not JUST the trailers! but OTHER Internet information too(episode guides ect) that indicates their survival beyond episode one

I never believed it anyway and I watched the season trailer once and haven't read anything else.

Although there is that little girl at the very end of the trailer who calls the Doc old man! but I believe that's Missy(the same way River started off as a little girl before she regenerated)

Now! as for the supposed destruction of the Tardis, obviously the maguffin used to explain away the slightly new interior(there's already been a video of Capaldi talking about the new interior) we're going to see from the next episode onwards.

[Burn]

Although there is that little girl at the very end of the trailer who calls the Doc old man! but I believe that's Missy(the same way River started off as a little girl before she regenerated)

I wouldn't call Maise Williams a "little girl".

I'm betting on Susan. Wouldn't make sense for it to be Missy as that would imply a change of actress and I think they'll want to keep Michelle Gomez around or a while.

[ZeroWolf]

I was thinking she was Susan as well but there is an outside chance it's his daughter. ..someone must remember her surely.

[Burn]

Jenny? Maybe. Time she came back. Though it would be nice for the original actress to appear.

With her father.
And husband.

[ZeroWolf]

There's got to be some funny family talk that goes on with a setup like that

"I'm married to a man who played the same character as my father, and even shared the same set with him the year before we met*"

*- I think that's how the timeline played out for their relationship

[Burn]

You forgot to add in that she played a character who was the daughter of the character her husband played.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.

[ZeroWolf]

*face palm*

Lol of course

Imagine it from Tennant's point of view, he's married to his daughter and her father is him, or was him

[Stuartmaximus]

You forgot to add in that she played a character who was the daughter of the character her husband played.

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.

[Insurgent]

Missy was just trying to convince the Daleks to keep her alive. And I'm pleased to see they were having none of it. Dalek time travel tech isn't forgotten, they used it in this very episode. How do you think they sent Snakeman around all those places in time? Or get the TARDIS back to Skaro?


As for how Davros survived, Russel T Davies has stated he explicitly didn't show what happened to Davros after that girder fell near him, so it could be kept open for his return. After all, it would be easy for him to have an escape pod handy, which is what I always assumed he did. I also always assumed this all happened in his timeline prior to Rememberance, but after the Sixth Doctor's episode (robotic hand and all). Though with the voiceclip of Unlimited Rice Pudding, that's put to rest that. Maybe he wasn't as cybernetic as he tried to appear in Rememberance?

[ZeroWolf]

More likely that mistakes were made and then glossed over

[Madeus Prime]

Well the episode was the highpoint of an otherwise soured evening, but I loved it, especially the references to Genesis of The Daleks. Plus the ending with the Dalek gun was awesome. Only thing I was underwhelmed by was the hand mines, I really wanted those creepy suckers to be a lead villain in an episode and not just a biological weapon during the Kaled/Thal war.

[RAR]

There may be an Implication that the version of Skaro is somehow linked to the past/specific future as it has an odd mix of Vintage Dalaks and Copper ones. So the presence or lack of internalised Time tech for the Daleks would be hard to confirm in such a muddled timeline.

I was more put out by the Dalek Anti-Tardis laser.

I guess the question is how will Missy & Clara be made not dead.

1) Missy used her Vortex manipulator to link their destruction to their teleportation and she did the same with the Tardis (she may have been messing with the Dalek cannon when she was on that platform).

Or

2) They are both actually dead and The Tardis is a puff of smoke too - but Davros will send The Doctor Back (or he will escape and find a way back) to make another Choice with regards to Davros then they will both not longer be Dead.

I suppose it's interesting that the Doc has several choices
A) He can kill Davros on the spot as child
B) He can leave again
c) He can save the kid and leave him
D) He can save the kid and take him with him

Anyway we shall see what way they use to wiggle out of it soon enough.

[Stuartmaximus]

There may be an Implication that the version of Skaro is somehow linked to the past/specific future as it has an odd mix of Vintage Dalaks and Copper ones. So the presence or lack of internalised Time tech for the Daleks would be hard to confirm in such a muddled timeline.

I was more put out by the Dalek Anti-Tardis laser.

I guess the question is how will Missy & Clara be made not dead.

1) Missy used her Vortex manipulator to link their destruction to their teleportation and she did the same with the Tardis (she may have been messing with the Dalek cannon when she was on that platform).

Or

2) They are both actually dead and The Tardis is a puff of smoke too - but Davros will send The Doctor Back (or he will escape and find a way back) to make another Choice with regards to Davros then they will both not longer be Dead.

I suppose it's interesting that the Doc has several choices
A) He can kill Davros on the spot as child
B) He can leave again
c) He can save the kid and leave him
D) He can save the kid and take him with him

Anyway we shall see what way they use to wiggle out of it soon enough.

The problem with choice 2 is that how do you explain the new Tardis interior they've to get? like I said before....the destruction(although temporary) of it is the maguffin used to sort of explain away the new interior! kinda like they did with the David Tennant/Matt Smith regeneration scene! The Tardis interior was blowing up & eventually gave way to a new interior(granted when the Tardis was human she explained that she saves all the control rooms ect).

[Burn]

It's called redecorating.

It's been a staple of DW for 50 years. Damage wasn't a precursor to a face lift.

[ZeroWolf]

Exactly, the fourth doctor changed his on a whim and then back again

[Stuartmaximus]

It's called redecorating.

It's been a staple of DW for 50 years. Damage wasn't a precursor to a face lift.

You are correct

But why blow up the Tardis(presumably) so early on into the new series then? + as I stated previously...there's already a video out(probably on YouTube) of Capaldi talking about the new look of the interior! just a coincidence? or maybe something more?

either way I guess we'll find out next Saturday!

[Insurgent]

About the TARDIS destroying laser, remember Daleks know how to fight Time Lords. To quote Tenth, "This is a Dalek Empire at the height of it's power. There's nothing they can't do." Ok, while the extent of their power is not yet known, Daleks know how to battle Time Lords, especially ones under the 'command' of Davros and especially if they have the ability to ressurect Skaro itself. The TARDIS isn't indestructible, it can be destroyed, it just normally has shields to protect it. But if those shields are down, it's entirely possible someone with the know how can and will destroy the vessel.

Personally, I haven't seen Daleks as this much of a threat since Stolen Earth, and before that, not since Bad Wolf. I also love how the older Daleks are all different sizes, like they should be. Though I do hope that Special Weapons Dalek gets some action.


My only serious gripe with the episode is the end shot. Not for what it represents, as it's The Fourth Doctor's words visuallised, but because it destroyed every piece of tension the episode had built up by showing us 'yep, The Doctor escapes Skaro.' Personally, I would have left the episode with everyone getting killed and the close up of The Doctor's reaction.