The Energon Pub

[fenrir72]

Can't you guys just start a thread to discuss the economics of Hasbro vs TakaraTomy instead of cluttering up multiple threads with the same discussion?

Can you please sticky JZGR's topic on other factors in the toyindustry that affects prices then?


toy-economics-price-differences-in-different-markets-and-the-factors-behind-them-t104268.php

[Rodimus Minor]

I'm going to quote a post from the main Combiner Wars thread because it has to do with Devastator:

I would like a CW Land Cross that would be cool ore a repaint of Titan Devy

Scrapper into Scoop
Hook into Erector
Long-haul into Wideload
Mix-master into Quick-mix
Scavenger into Build Team Grimlock
Bone-crusher into Wedge

That would be sweet

Oh yeah I never thought of that! Brilliant! I was trying to figure out a repaint for these molds, because we all know hasbro and takara does remolds.

Hasbro's precedent for redecoing and retooling their large molds is uh.... not in our favor. Look at Devastator here. They had two easy alternate decos they could have used for the SDCC release, in G2 colors: either yellow or orange. Instead they just added chrome and more details to the existing colour scheme. They did the same to Metroplex.

Having said that, I absolutely love Rodimus Minor's idea.

I am so happy my Idea has got so many likes Come On Hasbro make it Happen I feel I am doing some of their ideas for them

[Sabrblade]

I am so happy my Idea has got so many likes Come On Hasbro make it Happen I feel I am doing some of their ideas for them

I hate to be That Guy, but the idea isn't that original.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102890&p=1645795#p1645795
http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102890&p=1645795#p1645796

[Rodimus Minor]

I am so happy my Idea has got so many likes Come On Hasbro make it Happen I feel I am doing some of their ideas for them

I hate to be That Guy, but the idea isn't that original.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102890&p=1645795#p1645795
http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102890&p=1645795#p1645796

Thanks a lot

[william-james88]

Hey guys, all this talk of scale is driving me kinda nuts. I thought scale was just to imitate how the characters look like in comparison to one another in the G1 tv show (or whatever show a figure originates from).

By that definition, Generations Devastator combined is not in scale with the other combiners but is in scale with deluxe class figures (and technically is in scale with the individual combiner components). The other CW combiners on the other hand, while they are in scale with oneanother, they are not in scale with deluxe class figures when combined, they are more in scale with Legends size figures. Which is why Shockwave and others being released as legends figures makes sense. There are currently 2 scales at play in combiner wars and generations due to the mass shifting aspect. I dont see what is so hard to udnerstand about all this.

If the individual robots are to scale with other Transformers then it stands to reason that the combined mode is in scale too, given that the combined mode can only be as big as the sum of its parts.

Unless of course you factor in size changing, which is impossible to replicate on a toy and is also extremely stupid.

Stupid or not, mass-shifting is part of Transformers and particularly combiners. Has been since the beginning.

Yeah, I don't see why the antagonizing is necessary, I was just trying to say that because of mass shifting, both Combiner Wars Devastator and the other Combiners are in scale with themselves in different ways.

And I will definitely be taking mass shifting into account if I am to do awesome battle scenes with these combiners while trying to replicate the scale of certain scenes of the show.

You tell me what looks better when looking at the general scale.

We can agree this scene makes sense (Motormaster only looks taller because of the camera angle:



but then which of the following make more sense:

This one



or either of these:






Even Grimlock seems a different size depending on who he is against, hence why there are so many different scales. Which one looks better:





I find the MP works better. But the MP wouldnt have worked here:



So yes, mass shifting should be accounted for when making the best looking scenes, at least for me. And I dont think its stupid. I find this pretty stupid instead, Menasor looks so small:

[Cobotron]

So just to wrap my mind around mass shifting, they can generate matter out of thin air to make themselves bigger, diminish their matter to make themselves smaller?
Really it's all just a way for us to justify the varying scales of the toys.
It's all science-fiction, anything goes.

[Sabrblade]

So just to wrap my mind around mass shifting, they can generate matter out of thin air to make themselves bigger, diminish their matter to make themselves smaller?
Really it's all just a way for us to justify the varying scales of the toys.
It's all science-fiction, anything goes.

See here for the history and sciences behind the concept - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_changing

[Noideaforaname]

I rather like Devastator being way bigger that Menasor, both because alt mode scale and because it helps differentiate the gestalts. It's kinda boring when every combiner ends up being the same (absurdly gigantic) size. Let Devastator be the stupid big brawn-over-brains behemoth, and turn Menasor's comparatively small size into an advantage (a Stunticon still!) or even set him up as an early challenge (mid-season finale while the main villain prepares Gestalt 2.0).

[megatronus]

sciences

Ha! Science!

In other news, this was published today.

[Cobotron]

See here for the history and sciences behind the concept - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_changing

Thanks Sabr. Before joining here I had never heard of the concept as it pertains to TFs. I guess my disbelief was already so suspended, I didn't need an explanation for it. That wiki offers as good of an explanation as any.
Like I said before, it's science fiction, anything goes.

...and I love this screen cap

sciences

Ha! Science!
In other news, this was published today.

Great article megaT. Hits real close to home.

[Spanbauer]

I rather like Devastator being way bigger that Menasor, both because alt mode scale and because it helps differentiate the gestalts. It's kinda boring when every combiner ends up being the same (absurdly gigantic) size. Let Devastator be the stupid big brawn-over-brains behemoth, and turn Menasor's comparatively small size into an advantage (a Stunticon still!) or even set him up as an early challenge (mid-season finale while the main villain prepares Gestalt 2.0).

There's really not a right way to handle the size inconsistencies.

1. If you make the individual constructions all the same height as the limbs of the other combiners, then Motormaster and Silverbolt tower over them and their vehicle modes would look silly tiny. Like, minibots tiny.

2. If you scale their vehicle modes more accurately, then you have a Devaststor twice the size of the other gestalts and giant towering individual Constructicons. And then you have to ask the question - why are the Arielbots only the size of cars when they are 50ft jets?

I for one wouldn't have minded a smaller Devaststor - lord knows it'd have been easier to fit him on a shelf. But I also really like the idea of adult-sized Constructicons, and a big collection centerpiece. His size alone will likely mean he'll need to be displayed separately from the others, so it's not so bad.

[King Kuuga]

I am so happy my Idea has got so many likes Come On Hasbro make it Happen I feel I am doing some of their ideas for them

I hate to be That Guy

You're not. I'm That Guy. Well, That Bot here, because robots and stuff, but usually I'm That Guy. [/lame joke]



Ah, TF scale. I think TFWiki put it best: "Scale in Transformers is, not to put too fine a point on it, screwed."

[MelRains]

So just to wrap my mind around mass shifting, they can generate matter out of thin air to make themselves bigger, diminish their matter to make themselves smaller? ...

Yes. Also, they are sentient robots that can turn into cars n' stuff.

I never quite understood people's trepidation when it comes to mass shifting. I mean, it's kind of G1 Megatron's thing. You kind of have to accept that right at the beginning. I never had a problem with it. It's part of the world of Transformers.

[phantom1592]

So just to wrap my mind around mass shifting, they can generate matter out of thin air to make themselves bigger, diminish their matter to make themselves smaller? ...

Yes. Also, they are sentient robots that can turn into cars n' stuff.

I never quite understood people's trepidation when it comes to mass shifting. I mean, it's kind of G1 Megatron's thing. You kind of have to accept that right at the beginning. I never had a problem with it. It's part of the world of Transformers.

Megatron, Soundwave and the cassettes. I've never been a fan of mass shifting, but since the main wave one bad guys were directly responsible for it... I have little choice but to accept it. I remember being ASTOUNDED in the 87 movie when Astrotrain showed up as transport for all the decepticons... I never imagined he grew so big.

On a separate note, anyone know WHY Megatron was chosen as the main bad guy leader? I know the toys were all borrowed/stolen/riffed on from a bunch of other lines... but that 'bot to gun' thing as messed things up pretty much from the beginning and I still feel it tainting the CW tank bot. I just can't get into him as a tank...

And that original G1 toy SUUUUUUCKED so MUCH! I mean, if it was the best toy ever... I could understand forcint the story to make it work, but HIM?!? Why look at THAT and build a line around it... Especially when the decepticons pretty much used Soundwaves head for badge... Not that he was any better for Size shifting...

lot of 'history' that I've always been curious about.

As for Devy? I never really saw him as the 'gigantic earth movers'... has that ever really been established/confirmed? I always pictured them as the standard construction vehicles that I see on the highway 'building' stuff... I've never noticed anything about them being 'miners' in the lore... it's always 'builing bases' and stuff...

[fenrir72]

So just to wrap my mind around mass shifting, they can generate matter out of thin air to make themselves bigger, diminish their matter to make themselves smaller? ...

Yes. Also, they are sentient robots that can turn into cars n' stuff.

I never quite understood people's trepidation when it comes to mass shifting. I mean, it's kind of G1 Megatron's thing. You kind of have to accept that right at the beginning. I never had a problem with it. It's part of the world of Transformers.

Megatron, Soundwave and the cassettes. I've never been a fan of mass shifting, but since the main wave one bad guys were directly responsible for it... I have little choice but to accept it. I remember being ASTOUNDED in the 87 movie when Astrotrain showed up as transport for all the decepticons... I never imagined he grew so big.

On a separate note, anyone know WHY Megatron was chosen as the main bad guy leader? I know the toys were all borrowed/stolen/riffed on from a bunch of other lines... but that 'bot to gun' thing as messed things up pretty much from the beginning and I still feel it tainting the CW tank bot. I just can't get into him as a tank...

And that original G1 toy SUUUUUUCKED so MUCH! I mean, if it was the best toy ever... I could understand forcint the story to make it work, but HIM?!? Why look at THAT and build a line around it... Especially when the decepticons pretty much used Soundwaves head for badge... Not that he was any better for Size shifting...

lot of 'history' that I've always been curious about.

As for Devy? I never really saw him as the 'gigantic earth movers'... has that ever really been established/confirmed? I always pictured them as the standard construction vehicles that I see on the highway 'building' stuff... I've never noticed anything about them being 'miners' in the lore... it's always 'builing bases' and stuff...

Before I'm accused of starting an unrelated post. Initial plans were to have the toy who would be G1 Megatron be the henchman instead of SW. Somewhere along the way that got changed. Following the same logic, Prowl, whose head was said to have been the inspiration for the Autobot sigil would have been leader but the big bad kahuna of a truck got the slot.

[chuckdawg1999]

I wonder if the "obvious" repaints of Devastator as well as the other combiners are coming but will be exclusive to various stores? I can see Amazon getting one color while BBTS gets another.

[shajaki]

Hey y'all, I came across some new Devastator images! Not sure if we've had all these angles before, but seeing the legs joints front the rear is new to me

[D-Maximal_Primal]

@Shajaki, those photos are really cool. They give us some great views! Love that both forearms are not hollow in combined mode since they're filled up and he looks very solid. I'm even more excited now!

[Cobotron]

I was kinda getting caught up in the SDCC hype. All that chrome is pretty neat, but after seeing these photos, I'm gonna stick with the retail version. He looks fine, and I can save a lil' scratch.

[Spanbauer]

Hey y'all, I came across some new Devastator images! Not sure if we've had all these angles before, but seeing the legs joints front the rear is new to me

Thanks for sharing! Really hoping we get a video review showing the individual Constructicons' transformations soon, or even better would be more in-hand images of the SDCC edition with all of the extra decals and paint applications.

I was kinda getting caught up in the SDCC hype. All that chrome is pretty neat, but after seeing these photos, I'm gonna stick with the retail version. He looks fine, and I can save a lil' scratch.

The chrome is the least interesting thing the SDCC version has going on.

[Cobotron]

The chrome is the least interesting thing the SDCC version has going on.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Spanbauer]

The chrome is the least interesting thing the SDCC version has going on.

Different strokes for different folks.

Guess so! Personally for me, I'd buy the SDCC version despite the chrome, and put it up with it for getting 50% more paint apps and decals elsewhere on the figures

[shajaki]

I had to remind myself what the SDCC one has... so I looked it up... and y'know, there really isn't a WHOLE lot added that can't easily be replicated by Reprolabels (and I guarantee will be).

My personal preference for the head is with the visor. I think the SDCC chrome is rather fetching. If this were a year ago (financially) I'd have no issue getting both, but I'm not 100% if I'll get either. What I do know is, if the SDCC was G2 yellow, I'd find a way.

[megatronus]

There's only one reason I got ACG Con Metroplex (i.e. SDCC with gold/silver decoys instead of red/purple ones): DAT BOX. I think SDCC Devastator has enough going on for me to want it regardless of the box.

That's a big step for me.

[chuckdawg1999]

Have to admit, kinda disappointed that the forearms aren't hollow. I liked the idea of being able to fold the hands in for a missile battery. Also it looks like Scavenger has a new transformation scheme. I thought the legs folded up like on the old toy but it appears a panel comes down over the hips.