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“The evaluation is self-evident: one of their lives is not worth one of ours. That’s what the math dictates.”
“Hi, I’m EJ Su, you may remember me from such previous Transformers stories as Transformers: Infiltration, the hiding, and Transformers: Escalation, the slow build.”
Darth Bombshell wrote:No matter how much this thing explains Prowl's actions in Ongoing #1, I will always have a problem with the concept of this issue. Everyone knows about cause and effect, where we do something and the effect of our actions is immediately apparent. It's been obvious over the past two years that IDW has operated on the effect and cause principle, where they present the effect of the action, then show us the action later on only if they feel like it (or are prodded by the overly obsessive fanbase.)
The most obvious example of this was AHM Coda, which came into existence not because of IDW's over hyped "success of AHM" lie, but because enough fans griped about the inconsistencies in the story to what came before. This is the next best example. This issue exists solely because too many fans griped about Prowl's OOC actions in the first issue of the ongoing, so here we get the explanation.
I really need to break my addiction to TF comics. If this is the sort of thing they're going to be putting out there, it's simply not worth my cash every month.
tigertracks 24 wrote:Very true, but it is a style of writing to leave mysteries, plot holes, and so forth, and have them revealed later.
Darth Bombshell wrote:Yes, but it does so by intentionally hiding the reason behind the mysteries and brazenly ignoring the plot holes, thinking their readers are ignorant enough not to notice them.
Jeysie wrote:And... this review and the others I've seen don't fill me with any more confidence. Sorry, but I liked the fact that Prowl was a logic-driven strategist who not only didn't let his emotions control him, but as shown in AHM #15, knows how to control other people's emotions. I don't "need" him to be passionate or any such nonsense. I'm kind of tired of the whole "emotions are better than logic" plotline, and if this turns out to be yet another one I'll be really disappointed.
tigertracks 24 wrote:He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.
tigertracks 24 wrote:Logical- Not putting yourself in the way of harm
Illogical- saving someone when putting yourself in harm's way.
tigertracks 24 wrote:Contradictions? Sure. But that's part of why Prowl is on the side of the Autobots. What they value and believe is right, but the steps they take are not always logical.
tigertracks 24 wrote:but still be able to make the 'right' choice when logic/math may dictate you should do otherwise.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Prowl1529 wrote:Prowl is my favourite Transformer ever. He is no incompetent leader he simple dosen't like to lead he prefers to be the rigth hand "man" of Optimus Prime or any other on the leadership, in that i think he is the best.
Dead Metal wrote:How can you see that the whole reason given for the existence of this comic is nothing but bull-sh*t?
Well lets see it this way:
AHM:Coda had Prowl change his character from the way he was portrait before, making him a manipulative b@st@rd (as far as I was informed), so why would they willingly change his character yet again, just one issue after they changed him?
It's just proof for what I've been thinking since AHM#4 idw doesn't give a rats ass for their continuity and think their readers are stupid beyond belief.
tigertracks 24 wrote:(wikitron Fan Fact: Prowl got captured by humans as he was baited into trying to save Breakdown then released in exchange for Optimus Prime’s surrender)
He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.
JazZeke wrote:tigertracks 24 wrote:(wikitron Fan Fact: Prowl got captured by humans as he was baited into trying to save Breakdown then released in exchange for Optimus Prime’s surrender)
Ah, no. No, that wasn't what happened. Prowl was rescued by Hot Rod, and during that mission Ironhide was killed. Optimus got emo and surrendered himself supposedly out of guilt.He's not Decepticon. There comes a point where logic cannot dictate over right. This is what he works through the issue trying to see for himself.
Since when does logic equal evil? In AHM Coda, he was still fighting for the greater good, but using sneakier, morally questionable tactics, while going on about how brash actions do more harm than good. Costa has devolved him into one of those brash, bleeding heart "hero" types that are already a dime a dozen in the Autobot ranks.
tigertracks 24 wrote:Logic does not equal evil. When logic empowers you to make choices whose consequences you know, and choose have 'evil' results it does, like any such quality, or ability.
Jeysie wrote:tigertracks 24 wrote:Logic does not equal evil. When logic empowers you to make choices whose consequences you know, and choose have 'evil' results it does, like any such quality, or ability.
Except that Prowl so far has done nothing that he expects to have evil results.
Was what he did to Kup morally questionable? Yes. But he did it aiming to have good results--namely, getting the Autobots to listen to him enough to start acting like a well-polished team instead of going off half-cocked. There is nothing Decepticon in Prowl's motivations--his aim has always and ever been to do what will net the Autobots the most gain for the least casualties. Sometimes that means you don't get to be pure and lily-white, but that's a far, far cry from being evil or Decepticon.
I think Prowl will eventually learn there's lines that shouldn't be crossed--or at least feel more remorse about crossing them--but that doesn't mean turning him into a bleeding-heart. He should always be the character willing to do what's practical for the greater good, even if sometimes it's not "pure", because you need at least one person like that in a non-fluffy world where you don't always get to do the "pure" thing.
tigertracks 24 wrote:I really look forward to your thoughts POST reading this issue, and of course, Wreckers.
Jeysie wrote:But writers have a hard time handling a notion of good that doesn't involve blindly doing the "right thing" even if it actually causes greater damage in the long run. They either never have logical good guys, or they structure the story so that, even if the logical person's idea is completely sound and the bleeding-heart thing seems like it'll do a lot of damage, the emotional people get incredibly lucky and "show up" logic by having their emotional thing work.
Like I said, it's a tiresome and frustrating plot device. That's why I loved Roche's take: It seemed like there was a chance the logical person would be right just once, without having to "show their emotional side".
Jeysie wrote:Jeysie wrote:But writers have a hard time handling a notion of good that doesn't involve blindly doing the "right thing" even if it actually causes greater damage in the long run. They either never have logical good guys, or they structure the story so that, even if the logical person's idea is completely sound and the bleeding-heart thing seems like it'll do a lot of damage, the emotional people get incredibly lucky and "show up" logic by having their emotional thing work.
Like I said, it's a tiresome and frustrating plot device. That's why I loved Roche's take: It seemed like there was a chance the logical person would be right just once, without having to "show their emotional side".
Having read this finally...
Oh, hey, look what kind of story we got here! The same old frustrating type of crap that writers always do and I'm sick of. Almost exactly to the letter.
I always hated the fact that Prowl tended to get marginalized as the logical, practical person that nobody ever listens to because the Plot Luck means that the illogical, reckless plan of action turns out to always be the correct one, so the logical guy just ends up coming off as whiny and ineffectual. Even -ations Prowl came off as a blind stick-in-the-mud sometimes.
Then we finally get a story from Roche that gives us a Prowl who's logical and cold and actually is right, to the point where his advice being ignored has, yes, actually hurt the Autobots. And the fact that he chooses morally questionable methods to get people to listen to him for their own good had so much interesting potential to cover. Finally we could understand why Prowl is high-up in command even though he rubs everyone the wrong way. But now we're back to the guy who has to give in and be impulsive and emotional due to Plot Luck negating all of his logic, it seems.
What I would have liked to have seen here instead is a story where Prowl still refrains from doing the impulsive, illogical thing and turns out to be right in his judgment... yet for once actually feels remorse about it. As I think that is the real growth Prowl needed to undergo--not some silly "lesson" that he shouldn't be logical and practical all the time or should do impulsive illogical things just because they're "right", but the fact that he shouldn't be so cold-blooded in his feelings about having to sometimes compromise and do cold things. I loved the fact that, for a change, Prowl got to be as competent and shrewd as Shockwave; he just needed to develop that moral center while still doing it that makes him solidly an Autobot vs. Shockwave.
This story sure as hell isn't that. And I was kind of hoping that the thing with Kup might eventually lead to that sort of revelation, but I don't see it happening now either.
Well, at least the art was good. I really love Su's new style... the new designs manage to be more mechanical and alien, but without sacrificing being endearing and expressive.
The dialogue was good too... Costa at least is decent at the technical side of writing. I just wish that almost all of his ideas so far weren't so boring, cliche, and predictable.
(We won't even get into how this is another step in Prime's transformation from, in the -ations, being the only Optimus Prime I could respect as having a practical and hard-nosed counterbalance to his compassion, to being the same sort of Lawful Stupid idiot that every other Optimus Prime is and that I always want to smack upside the head.)
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