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Yotsuyasan wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Maybe tell them to stick with trusted and reputable dealers (like the site sponsors) if people wish to avoid them like the plague?
Well, depending on how picky you want to be, even sticking with site sponsors can be tricky. Some (including Ryan, which I suppose is the most important factor as far as this discussion goes) don't see much difference between third parties and KOs, so this may not matter... but if you want to avoid KOs of third party products, then Robot Kingdom is not for you.
And while it seems to have been an isolated incident, I seem to recall (my memory is hazy and I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong) that even the venerable BBTS once accidentally purchased a shipment of KO Encore Metroplexes. To their credit, they were up front about it and didn't lie to their customers... but BBTS still sold them. That might not happen now, since BBTS seems to have a closer relationship with Hasbro and I doubt they'd want to risk that... but I'm just pointing out that one cannot say that even the site sponsors are always 100% KO free.
Burn wrote:Really? You really want to test my patience when I've said TWICE for the discussion to return to KO reporting?
megatronus wrote:Visiting a forum for non-HasTak product is not the same as not supporting HasTak product. FAIL.Rated X wrote:Seeing how were all on the "Unofficial Transformers 3rd Party and Knock Offs Toys" forum section, all of you are just as guilty of not supporting Hasbro.Do you work for HasTak? What's that? You don't? Therefore, you cannot know what forum or behaviors they do or do not want me to participate in. FAIL.Rated X wrote:Hasbro/Takara would like you guys to not even visit these forums and only acknowledge the existence of THEIR products.Accessories and add-on products that are predicated on you actually owning a HasTak product necessarily indicates that the person who buys them is not supporting an anti-HasTak cause. Just the opposite. FAIL.Rated X wrote:If you own one 3rd party product (even a measly Dr. Wu sword) you are supporting a cause that is flat out anti-Hasbro/Takara.3rd Party products are on a basic level an entirely different category than KOs. FAIL.Rated X wrote:So all of you 3rd party collectors who mock me for supporting KO's are a bunch of hypocrites.Nope - that's you, the avid KO buyer. FAIL.Rated X wrote:You don the "Hasbro Badge of Honor" proudly like a bunch of boy scouts, but then turn around and buy products from companies that flat out steal from the corporation you pledge allegiance to.If you actually pledge allegiance to G1, then you should respect the products that actually came out of that era, as well as the architects of that era. But you don't.Rated X wrote:The only thing I pledge allegiance to is a really awesome era during the 80's known as G1. As far as how to homage G1 best and who should do it, I’m in favor of a free for all.
FAIL.
Burn wrote:Really? You really want to test my patience when I've said TWICE for the discussion to return to KO reporting?
Yotsuyasan wrote:I was about to respond to some of Rated X's latest post... but I stopped myself. It would just drag out the very endless debate I asked if we could avoid in the original post, and even foolishly indulged in a bit myself earlier.
So... I'm not a mod, so I can't come down with a vicious hammer of justice like Burn did with his quite justfied demand to drop the MLP stuff... but as the humble creator of this thread, can I please put in another plea to not have this turn into yet another debate of "Official vs. KOs" or "Third Party vs. KOs" or "Official vs. Third Party & KOs"? And please keep it on how KOs are reported, if there is a need to refine it, and if so suggestions as to how?
Please?
Thanks!
Rated X wrote:Read my last post. Im done with this battle. No need to call on Burn. But at the end of the day remember how KO's are reported all depends on what stance you take. And expressing the stance you take will open the door to these type of debates every time. It's inevitable.
Agreed!Gauntlet101010 wrote:Most people who buy 3rd party TFs aren't anti-Hasbro/Takara/official. Official-indifferent perhaps, but anti-official is a whole different ball game.
I think hiding comments is a bad idea. Besides potentially being a logistical challenge, I think it goes against the spirit of the site.Gauntlet101010 wrote:At any rate, hiding comments from some news articles seems like a fine way to stop the wrong message from being sent. Is this even possible, though?
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Most people who buy 3rd party TFs aren't anti-Hasbro/Takara/official.
megatronus wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:...hiding comments from some news articles seems like a fine way to stop the wrong message from being sent. Is this even possible, though?
I think hiding comments is a bad idea. Besides potentially being a logistical challenge, I think it goes against the spirit of the site.
If you have a boilerplate disclaimer that declares that Seibertron.com does not recommend purchasing knock-offs, that the news is for informational purposes only, and that utilizing the site sponsors is the best way to avoid knock-offs, I think most of the issues/confusion with KO reporting will be resolved.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:Most people who buy 3rd party TFs aren't anti-Hasbro/Takara/official.
Hear, hear.megatronus wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:...hiding comments from some news articles seems like a fine way to stop the wrong message from being sent. Is this even possible, though?
I think hiding comments is a bad idea. Besides potentially being a logistical challenge, I think it goes against the spirit of the site.
If you have a boilerplate disclaimer that declares that Seibertron.com does not recommend purchasing knock-offs, that the news is for informational purposes only, and that utilizing the site sponsors is the best way to avoid knock-offs, I think most of the issues/confusion with KO reporting will be resolved.
I wouldn't be opposed to making the comments not visible on the news page. I would assume that there would still be a link on the bottom of the page to where the discussion thread is. That way, the potentially KO-supporting user created content would not be visible on the news page, but then discussion would not be stifled in the way that earlier suggestions of just immediately locking such threads would have done. Of course, as has been suggested, unless one of the powers that be chime in, it is not known if such a thing would even be logistically possible.
In the end, even if it doesn't completely hide the problem, I think a well worded standardized disclaimer in every KO warning news story is likely the solution that would best address the issue without too much trouble on the part of the powers that be, and without a detrimental effect on the community at large.
Burn wrote:So logistically speaking ... if the News Crew had an option to display comments or not in the news article ... that would be a good idea? (With a link to the thread should people wish to view/join in the discussion)
I'm not sure as to the reasoning behind comments displaying in the news article, I always just accepted that it was there as a way to encourage people to post and join in the community.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Photos and links contained within this news article are for informational purposes only, to educate our readers about the existence of knock off products so that they may better avoid purchasing them. Any views contained within the attached discussion thread are those of the individual posters. Seibertron.com does not endorse or encourage the purchase of any products not made under the authority of Hasbro or Takara.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Burn wrote:So logistically speaking ... if the News Crew had an option to display comments or not in the news article ... that would be a good idea? (With a link to the thread should people wish to view/join in the discussion)
I'm not sure as to the reasoning behind comments displaying in the news article, I always just accepted that it was there as a way to encourage people to post and join in the community.
Well, as I understand it, currently the default (only) option is to display comments from the discussion thread associated with a news story under that news story. And this is what leads to comments which could be seen as supportive of (or even advertisement for) knock offs appearing on a page with a news story, even if the intent of that news story is to try and warn against those things.
The suggestion someone made was that if it was logistically possible, change it so that the forum comments appearing on the news pages was optional, presumably only to be excluded from knock off reporting articles. However, to avoid seeming as if discussion was not an option, there would at least still remain a link to that discussion thread should someone wish to view it.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon wrote:So, my advice to the news crew is to keep things as they are, maybe with an adjustment to the disclaimer. Then let the community discuss. You can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
Wait, that's not right...
I wrote:While I would not be upset to see (hiding of forum comments on KO warning news articles) implemented, at this point (and after all of the discussion here) I would be content with the standardized disclaimer idea. In fact, if I had to choose between the two (should they for some reason be mutually exclusive) I'd go with the disclaimer over hiding the forum comments.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Agamemnon wrote:So, my advice to the news crew is to keep things as they are, maybe with an adjustment to the disclaimer. Then let the community discuss. You can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
Wait, that's not right...
So basically... what I said at this point I'd be satisfied in the part of my last post that you didn't quote.I wrote:While I would not be upset to see (hiding of forum comments on KO warning news articles) implemented, at this point (and after all of the discussion here) I would be content with the standardized disclaimer idea. In fact, if I had to choose between the two (should they for some reason be mutually exclusive) I'd go with the disclaimer over hiding the forum comments.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon wrote:Hang on. I was addressing the specific desire you had to encourage censorship. That may not be what you meant, but that is the effect of such ideas. You may have expressed the idea of a "compromise" that agrees with my point of view, but that is not your preference, is it?
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Burn wrote:So logistically speaking ... if the News Crew had an option to display comments or not in the news article ... that would be a good idea? (With a link to the thread should people wish to view/join in the discussion)
I'm not sure as to the reasoning behind comments displaying in the news article, I always just accepted that it was there as a way to encourage people to post and join in the community.
Agamemnon wrote:Didn't you question posting of pictures and links? You seemed to like the idea of hiding comments on the news pages. While not egregious, I think these are definitely ideas along the lines of censorship. Maybe this gets into a semantic argument for you. I don't really want to go there. My point is that these ideas head down the road to censorship, and I don't like that. Just expressing my concerns for this direction of thought.
Burn wrote:It's only censorship if we prohibt discussion entirely.
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