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Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'd prefer it is KO threads were closed right after being made. I'm sick of the same KO VS AntiKO posts being brought up again, and again, and again.
megatronus wrote:It seems you just want basic details on the KOs so you can identify and avoid them.
Now, that would be fine for a news post, and indeed, that's largely what's happening when the News Crew puts these warnings on the home page.
But, this isn't just a news site. It's a community collected (no pun intended) around a hobby we all enjoy. And we all have different interpretations of how and what that hobby should look like.
So, when threads expand or narrow in scope, move from topic to topic, or shift from warnings about KOs to links to purchase them or other details for the non-discriminating collector or fan, you're free to take issue with it, but I don't think you should complain about it. That's just the name of the game and a function of the community participating in sourcing discussions.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'd prefer it is KO threads were closed right after being made. I'm sick of the same KO VS AntiKO posts being brought up again, and again, and again.
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'd prefer it is KO threads were closed right after being made. I'm sick of the same KO VS AntiKO posts being brought up again, and again, and again.
Yotsuyasan wrote:I suppose part of what I take issue with is that the news posts are linked to the discussion threads, and thus even if I know it is unintentional I take that as Seibertron.com looking like it is endorsing knock offs.
Yotsuyasan wrote:I also suppose I'd have a lot less of a problem with such discussions if I could just easily avoid them all together. It is kind of a separate discussion, so I hesitate to bring it up in this thread, but I really, really wish that third party items and knock offs were in separate forums. It bothers me greatly to have the two so closely associated.
Oh, 100% agree with you. I have a nice selection of 3rd Party figures (mainly Hercules, Feral Rex, Intimidator, and FP Insecticons) as well as countless accessories. It's a totally different game than KO's.Yotsuyasan wrote:Third party items are original products that may be heavily inspired by and paying homage to Has/Tak product, but don't do so using stolen or copied molds. Knock offs, even if recolored or remolded slightly, are just theft, and in my opinion have little or no place in the fandom. Having them lumped together never sat well with me.
3rd Parties are already a rather grey area, and I do think where you draw the line is a personal preference, whether it involve personal finances, design considerations, or something else.Yotsuyasan wrote:Of course, splitting them could cause some argument on where exactly the line is drawn. For example, the cab section on Maketoys Novae Prime is uncomfortably close to the line to me. It obviously depends heavily on the engineering that Hasbro put into the RTS Optimus Prime mold. But I think it stays just barely on the third party side of the line. On the other hand, the iGear Masterpiece Coneheads I see as knock offs of the Masterpiece Seeker mold. Others may disagree, however. So alas, it can be a blurry line. And that is why I suspect they were lumped together.
This is exactly why we need the news posts and subsequent links to buy - it may come off as an advertisement to you (it definitely does not to me - I think the News Crew does a good job in this respect), but it's making sure that folks like us who would much rather not buy a KO, don't buy a KO.Yotsuyasan wrote:With Has/Tak product, it is rather black and white: Either Has/Tak produced or licensed it, or they did not. If the did, it's an official toy. If they didn't, it isn't. Not quite the same as trying to decide what counts as what from twenty different manufactures, some of who may produce things that could questionably fall into either category, creating many shades of grey.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
megatronus wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:I suppose part of what I take issue with is that the news posts are linked to the discussion threads, and thus even if I know it is unintentional I take that as Seibertron.com looking like it is endorsing knock offs.
If you know anything about Ryan (which you may not), then you gotta know that's 100% not true.
Burn wrote: ...stuff...
Burn wrote:Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'd prefer it is KO threads were closed right after being made. I'm sick of the same KO VS AntiKO posts being brought up again, and again, and again.
But then the News Crew have to change how they do things. One thing we DON'T do is lock news threads.
Do we now make exceptions? Locking threads is basically saying "No you can't discuss it".
Yotsuyasan wrote:[Lots of stuff, then this:]
I suppose part of what I take issue with is that the news posts are linked to the discussion threads, and thus even if I know it is unintentional I take that as Seibertron.com looking like it is endorsing knock offs.
[then some more stuff...]
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Alas, no time to reply... But you always seem someone with whom intelligent discourse is nice,
Gauntlet101010 wrote:KO news thread are just ... annoying. It's the exact same topic over and over again. The same topic that just devolves into the same discussion. With movie news at least the topic of discussion changes. Maybe it devolves into flames; I couldn't say (have no interest in those posts so I just stay out of them), but with KOs it's the exact same thing all the time.
Rated X wrote:What would be gained if you got your way ? You Accuse this site of Unintentionally glorifying KOs. But you just created your own thread discussing how KOs should and shouldnt be reported. Some clueless kid is going to click on this thread out of curiousity and discover the wonderful world of KOs because youre feeding into the controversy. My advice to you is just ignore everything KO related. Worry about what you collect and stop worrying about what others collect. You might save yourself a few ulcers.
Rated X wrote: Worry about what you collect and stop worrying about what others collect. You might save yourself a few ulcers.
Yotsuyasan wrote:There's multiple threads floating around lately whose main purpose seems to be mentioning knock offs exist, posting multiple pictures of them showing how good they look, and posting links to where you can buy them. And it really makes me wonder if these threads are truly meant to warn against them rather than to inform about them to less then scrupulous Transformers collectors.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Is there a need for these threads to include galleries of photos illustrative of how identical they are to the original toy? If we know what the original looks like, surely we'd get the idea. I'd suggest photos are only necessary if they specifically highlight differences between the original and the knock off that can be useful in telling them apart and making the knock off easier for legitimate Transformers collectors to avoid.
Yotsuyasan wrote:Also, is there a need for links? It has been suggested that they are necessary as proof of existence. Um... okay. Was there ever a case of such a knock off being reported and the reporter being a big fat liar? If the knock off exists, just say so. I'll believe you.
If it is only a rumor of a knock off, say that too. I'll at least know to be on guard for any "too good to be true" deals. And if rumor becomes fact later, you can just give us an update then. But I don't need links.
Yotsuyasan wrote:One might suggest that links are necessary to know which stores to avoid. Just tell me which stores you've seen them at. Providing a link is unnecessary. My problem is that these threads seem to be becoming advertisements for the knock offs. If someone wants to buy one, I say let 'em at least work a little bit for it by having to type in a web address then search the offending retailer site. And I especially don't think links to eBay auctions are ever necessary in knock off reporting. A knock off exists and it is being sold on eBay. Oh my god, I am so surprised.
Yotsuyasan wrote:At what point does a thread stop being warning and start being advertising?
Yotsuyasan wrote:If it is advertising, I don't like it. But fine, whatever. At least present it as such, and stop pretending you are providing a service to legitimate collectors. And to those who decide what is news worthy of being on the front page, for the love of god stop presenting these threads as news.
Yotsuyasan wrote:If it is news, I'd suggest such threads should be subject to unusual restriction. Have the initial post end with a strong disclaimer against purchasing such things. At most one link to where one can be purchased (for informational purposes only) in the initial post, and no further such links in follow up posts. No photos in the thread unless they are specifically highlighting differences that can be used to tell the knock off from the legitimate product. I'd even suggest locking the threads after the first post, so that they exist as informational tools only and cannot be followed by ten posts of, "Awesome, thanks! I'm totally buying that! Screw Hasbro!" But if discussion is allowed, I'd suggest holding posters in these threads to the same heightened rules regarding images and links.
Yotsuyasan wrote:I fear I shall not be at my computer much this weekend, but I look forward to seeing what response this might generate and will chime in when I can.
Thank you.
njb902 wrote:Rated X wrote:What would be gained if you got your way ? You Accuse this site of Unintentionally glorifying KOs. But you just created your own thread discussing how KOs should and shouldnt be reported. Some clueless kid is going to click on this thread out of curiousity and discover the wonderful world of KOs because youre feeding into the controversy. My advice to you is just ignore everything KO related. Worry about what you collect and stop worrying about what others collect. You might save yourself a few ulcers.
So does that include MLP Transformers variant covers?
Rated X wrote:njb902 wrote:Rated X wrote:What would be gained if you got your way ? You Accuse this site of Unintentionally glorifying KOs. But you just created your own thread discussing how KOs should and shouldnt be reported. Some clueless kid is going to click on this thread out of curiousity and discover the wonderful world of KOs because youre feeding into the controversy. My advice to you is just ignore everything KO related. Worry about what you collect and stop worrying about what others collect. You might save yourself a few ulcers.
So does that include MLP Transformers variant covers?
Nah....my issue with MLP Is that a very small minority of the TF collecting community keeps trying to shove that crap down the rest of the fandoms throat and justify it because its a hasbro product. Cant the create their own fansite ? Cant they start their own convention ? or are they just in denial that they compose like 1% of the TF fandom ?
Rated X wrote:njb902 wrote:Rated X wrote:What would be gained if you got your way ? You Accuse this site of Unintentionally glorifying KOs. But you just created your own thread discussing how KOs should and shouldnt be reported. Some clueless kid is going to click on this thread out of curiousity and discover the wonderful world of KOs because youre feeding into the controversy. My advice to you is just ignore everything KO related. Worry about what you collect and stop worrying about what others collect. You might save yourself a few ulcers.
So does that include MLP Transformers variant covers?
Nah....my issue with MLP Is that a very small minority of the TF collecting community keeps trying to shove that crap down the rest of the fandoms throat and justify it because its a hasbro product. Cant the create their own fansite ? Cant they start their own convention ? or are they just in denial that they compose like 1% of the TF fandom ?
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Autobot032 wrote:Perhaps wordings could be handled slightly better, but what is it exactly that you demand of us?
Autobot032 wrote:Should we not report those fakes? Should we not help save a fellow collector/fan from falling into the trap of being duped into buying a fake at real prices?
Autobot032 wrote:And as Burn said, closing a news topic is a no go. So, again, our hands are tied. So, again I ask, what would you have us do?
Autobot032 wrote:We are open to suggestions. Feel free to give us ideas.
Autobot032 wrote:EDIT: Decided to respond in more detail.Yotsuyasan wrote:There's multiple threads floating around lately whose main purpose seems to be mentioning knock offs exist, posting multiple pictures of them showing how good they look, and posting links to where you can buy them. And it really makes me wonder if these threads are truly meant to warn against them rather than to inform about them to less then scrupulous Transformers collectors.
First of all, there's no need to disparage our good name by making conspiracy theories that shouldn't exist. We are not in the business of selling 3rd party or KOs, nor do we promote them. That's the long and short of it.
Autobot032 wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:Is there a need for these threads to include galleries of photos illustrative of how identical they are to the original toy? If we know what the original looks like, surely we'd get the idea. I'd suggest photos are only necessary if they specifically highlight differences between the original and the knock off that can be useful in telling them apart and making the knock off easier for legitimate Transformers collectors to avoid.
Yes, there is a need to include galleries. The Scorponok report is a perfect example. We showed images that had both the original and the KO. In those pictures, you could clearly see a build quality difference. However, to the untrained eye, if they hadn't had those side by side, they could've easily been fooled by the KO. We didn't go into a full gallery of the figure itself. Then, you might have some weight to your argument, but as of right now? This part of it? No. You're just flat out wrong.
Autobot032 wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:Also, is there a need for links? It has been suggested that they are necessary as proof of existence. Um... okay. Was there ever a case of such a knock off being reported and the reporter being a big fat liar? If the knock off exists, just say so. I'll believe you.
If it is only a rumor of a knock off, say that too. I'll at least know to be on guard for any "too good to be true" deals. And if rumor becomes fact later, you can just give us an update then. But I don't need links.
Yes, it is important. 1.) We can provide proof, so we're not called liars. 2.) We can point out exactly who the seller(s) is/are so you can AVOID them. 3.) Just because you believe doesn't mean all will. I'm sorry, but we do our best to cater to everyone, we can't make just you happy. (This is not me being a jerk, I'm stating an actual fact. It is literally impossible for us to do.)
Yotsuyasan wrote:One might suggest that links are necessary to know which stores to avoid. Just tell me which stores you've seen them at. Providing a link is unnecessary.
Autobot032 wrote:Every thing we have, you tend to throw back in our faces. It's almost like you have it out for us. I don't know why. We've been good to the community, to the fandom, so, I'm not sure where this is coming from. I don't know why you're so angry with us. (And it does come across as anger.)
Autobot032 wrote:Links are so people can see who's selling and what. This way we can also report it to Hasbro. AND eBay. And it does work! We've had people tell us "Thank you, you saved me from buyer's remorse." And that makes us feel good.
Autobot032 wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:At what point does a thread stop being warning and start being advertising?
At what point will you stop? At what point will you be happy? You are more than welcome here, you're a part of this community. But please, contribute, don't detract from it. Posting stuff like this, especially in this manner, doesn't help. You could've made the same point without being so angry and ranty. You could've found better way to touch base with us, rather than coming at us guns blazing.
Autobot032 wrote:We don't bite. We're nice people, you guys are more than welcome to ask us questions. But, please do so with respect.
Autobot032 wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:If it is advertising, I don't like it. But fine, whatever. At least present it as such, and stop pretending you are providing a service to legitimate collectors. And to those who decide what is news worthy of being on the front page, for the love of god stop presenting these threads as news.
It is not advertising. Not. Not. Not. We don't do that. We never report on accessories, or Shapeways, or anything 3rd party or KO on the main page. Never.
We only have a 3rd party forum so our regular members can discuss their love for those items. Allowing the people to discuss them is not the same as promoting them. Is not.
Autobot032 wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:If it is news, I'd suggest such threads should be subject to unusual restriction. Have the initial post end with a strong disclaimer against purchasing such things. At most one link to where one can be purchased (for informational purposes only) in the initial post, and no further such links in follow up posts. No photos in the thread unless they are specifically highlighting differences that can be used to tell the knock off from the legitimate product. I'd even suggest locking the threads after the first post, so that they exist as informational tools only and cannot be followed by ten posts of, "Awesome, thanks! I'm totally buying that! Screw Hasbro!" But if discussion is allowed, I'd suggest holding posters in these threads to the same heightened rules regarding images and links.
It IS news. Unusual restriction would require locking them after they've been posted. We will not do that. Won't.
We do post disclaimers. We'll work on wording them better, but we do post them.
We hold ALL posters to the same rules as you are held to. I don't know where you got the idea that certain individuals curry favor with us, but it's simply not true. Everyone is equal, not more or less than another.
Autobot032 wrote:Yotsuyasan wrote:I fear I shall not be at my computer much this weekend, but I look forward to seeing what response this might generate and will chime in when I can.
Thank you.
Now see, this bothers me. I find this disingenuous. You go to the trouble of starting this thread, come across as angry and ranty, and then basically say you're taking a break for the weekend and you'll come back to see what's been said. To me, that seems to be of ill repute. At least stick around and defend your argument when we counter it. At least give us the chance to do just that. This seems rather unfair and very disappointing.
Autobot032 wrote:If people have a problem, they're more than welcome to voice it, but they should discuss it with us, instead of threads like these. You can make threads, but at least be around to fully discuss it, and have an open mind. You ask the same of us, we ask the same of you.
Well when i talk about hasbro im talking as a transformers fan about their transformers franchise on a transformers website. Im not here to talk about GI Joe, ninja turtles, cabbage patch kids, or toys that have nothing to do with transformers. I think they need to find their own venue and leave transformers alone. And if they happen to be transformers fans, come here to talk transformers and leave the ponies at home. Thats something im very Passionate about. The same way the creator of this thread is so passionite about abolishing KOs from this earth. As the transformers franchise becomes more and more mainstream thanks to michael bay, the fandom is moving foward past the stereotypes of nerds and weirdos. The jabronies are taking us two steps back in my opinion. If a fair weather TF fan is thinking about getting into the collecting scene, these clowns might scare him away before he ever gets to find out people like us exist. Im assuming youre not a MLP fan either even as a mod...Burn wrote:Rated X wrote:njb902 wrote:Rated X wrote:What would be gained if you got your way ? You Accuse this site of Unintentionally glorifying KOs. But you just created your own thread discussing how KOs should and shouldnt be reported. Some clueless kid is going to click on this thread out of curiousity and discover the wonderful world of KOs because youre feeding into the controversy. My advice to you is just ignore everything KO related. Worry about what you collect and stop worrying about what others collect. You might save yourself a few ulcers.
So does that include MLP Transformers variant covers?
Nah....my issue with MLP Is that a very small minority of the TF collecting community keeps trying to shove that crap down the rest of the fandoms throat and justify it because its a hasbro product. Cant the create their own fansite ? Cant they start their own convention ? or are they just in denial that they compose like 1% of the TF fandom ?
Wait ... so ... you don't like MLP fans "shoving their crap down the rest of the fandoms throat" but you get to harp on about your anti-Hasbro stance on a regular basis?
As others have said about KO's, and what I'm going to tell you about MLP. Just ignore it. It's not harming you.
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