The Energon Pub

So, I've seen:

-Unicron enthusiasm
-Titan Tidal Wave
-Ark/Nemesis sets
-TF/GI Joe Crossover

What other 'grails' (let's leave Scorponok & Omega Supreme out of this for now) would we want to see? I don't think we necessarily need to think beyond the Titan concept, but if we stay within that mindset, we should go for some unique redeco...

Metrotitan? He'd be neat.

Quintessons? Face swap gimmick a must!

Sabrewing wrote:

Lore Keeper wrote:Think about how heavy a four foot Unicron would be. Go pick up a TR Fort Max and imagine something twice as heavy as that. I Can't imagine a toy that cumbersome being very fun to transform and play with.

If it's twice as big, it would be eight times as heavy, not two.

Pfft! Eight times? What are you...
l×w×h=v
2 (l×w×h)=8v
8v×d=8m
8m×g=8W...
Oh...

I thought it was kind of funny to see comments about trying to get Unicron in scale. First, he is a friggin' planet. To even get him in scale with a head master would result in a ridiculously large toy. Like house or building size. Or more. Second, when have Transformers ever been in scale? Some scale better to others, but there has never been good scaling. It's always been part of the line's charm. If they do him, I think he should be bigger than anything else ever made, but doesn't have to be crazy large. 3ft tall max.

How about a G1 Ark that opens into a playset for Legion scale Transformers?

Personally I'm not keen on the idea of non-Transforming playsets in Transformers. However, while I have zero interest in Star Wars, akin to the barge how about Hasbro making detailed models of the ships of Transformers? The Nemesis, Revenge, Axalon, Ark, Quintesson.. Corkscrew etc Maybe even diecast too?

megatronus wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Flashwave wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A Beast themed City Bot could have work just as well. Just saying.

But who do you do? Scorpinok? Fans will want him to match Fortress Maximus in scale and asthetic. Trust me, asthetic does matter, but only when its not right. That just leaves... Chela? Orcanoch? A Titan Class Tako Tank? I'm not sure who the more onscure character would be there.

Absolutely Scorponok. He was the only City Bot to have three legitimate alt-modes. I've said this elsewhere but the City Bots should have been released as sets/pairs. So all the more reason Scorponok should have followed Trypticon over Predaking. Completing the City Bot line while at the same time remaining inkeeping with the beast themed aesthetic they sought to continue with the combiner.

As an aside and I've mentioned this elsewhere too, it would be nice if Hasbro/Takara would remember there are more than two Gestalts in Tranformers. They don't have to keep repeating Devastator and Predaking over and over again. Piranacon would also have matched up to a beast themed combiner and HasTak hasn't shown the Seacons any love at all in a long time. Likewise with Monstructor too, for that matter...

Alternating between city bots and combiners is smart. It decreases collector fatigue for these huge robots, and gives parents justification to buy more and/or different product from year to year. That said, I wish Devastator was executed better.

The thing is they only have one more City Bot left! Make Scorponok and the City Bot line is complete. It's so frustrating for HasTak to not be compelled to finish a line that is 3/4 done and then move onto the next thing. Scorponok is legitimately different enough to stand out to consumers/collectors anyway.

megatronus wrote:City bot two packs would be crazy good for collectors... but an unmitigated disaster. Very few would put up the money for them until they clearance out. Metroplex and Fort Max were both liquidated, Trypticon was also regularly 30% or more off. Imagine the business reckoning if they actually sold 2 Titans together.

I didn't mean sell them in packs of two, I meant make them as a set of two IE Metroplex>Trypticon, Optimus>Megatron etc When you make one toy, the next should be the rival character. It's not like the entire cast of TF isn't virtually paired off to make this a feasible retail option.

megatronus wrote:Devastator is the first and most iconic combiner, and it's not like we've gotten a huge number of (good) ones. Really just the Titan. Asking Hasbro to stop reverting to Devastator is like asking them to maybe shift the focus away from Optimus Prime --- never gonna happen.

This is what I was getting at before. HasTak seems forever stuck in a rut of repeating the "popular" characters over and over again. EG rumours of yet another Optimus Prime in the MP line next year! It's ridiculous and the fanbase is just as much to blame as Hasbro themselves.
Yeah, many of the later edition Gestalt's weren't fantastic. Yet if Hasbro applied themselves to redesigning those lesser combiner teams today, instead of sticking to the Lazy/Safe option who knows how good the Horrorcons, Seacons etc could look with their current know-how?

Personally I love the Decepticons (there are subtle clues). They are the best characters in all of Transformers in my eyes. BUT, I am sick of seeing Devastator, Predaking and the Seekers heading up every Official and 3rd Party G1 based line, because fans and creators alike seem so resistant to change. Surely there are only so many times you can make the same Starscream and his alternate palettes?

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Personally I'm not keen on the idea of non-Transforming playsets in Transformers. However, while I have zero interest in Star Wars, akin to the barge how about Hasbro making detailed models of the ships of Transformers? The Nemesis, Revenge, Axalon, Ark, Quintesson.. Corkscrew etc Maybe even diecast too?

megatronus wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Flashwave wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A Beast themed City Bot could have work just as well. Just saying.

But who do you do? Scorpinok? Fans will want him to match Fortress Maximus in scale and asthetic. Trust me, asthetic does matter, but only when its not right. That just leaves... Chela? Orcanoch? A Titan Class Tako Tank? I'm not sure who the more onscure character would be there.

Absolutely Scorponok. He was the only City Bot to have three legitimate alt-modes. I've said this elsewhere but the City Bots should have been released as sets/pairs. So all the more reason Scorponok should have followed Trypticon over Predaking. Completing the City Bot line while at the same time remaining inkeeping with the beast themed aesthetic they sought to continue with the combiner.

As an aside and I've mentioned this elsewhere too, it would be nice if Hasbro/Takara would remember there are more than two Gestalts in Tranformers. They don't have to keep repeating Devastator and Predaking over and over again. Piranacon would also have matched up to a beast themed combiner and HasTak hasn't shown the Seacons any love at all in a long time. Likewise with Monstructor too, for that matter...

Alternating between city bots and combiners is smart. It decreases collector fatigue for these huge robots, and gives parents justification to buy more and/or different product from year to year. That said, I wish Devastator was executed better.

The thing is they only have one more City Bot left! Make Scorponok and the City Bot line is complete. It's so frustrating for HasTak to not be compelled to finish a line that is 3/4 done and then move onto the next thing. Scorponok is legitimately different enough to stand out to consumers/collectors anyway.

megatronus wrote:City bot two packs would be crazy good for collectors... but an unmitigated disaster. Very few would put up the money for them until they clearance out. Metroplex and Fort Max were both liquidated, Trypticon was also regularly 30% or more off. Imagine the business reckoning if they actually sold 2 Titans together.

I didn't mean sell them in packs of two, I meant make them as a set of two IE Metroplex>Trypticon, Optimus>Megatron etc When you make one toy, the next should be the rival character. It's not like the entire cast of TF isn't virtually paired off to make this a feasible retail option.

megatronus wrote:Devastator is the first and most iconic combiner, and it's not like we've gotten a huge number of (good) ones. Really just the Titan. Asking Hasbro to stop reverting to Devastator is like asking them to maybe shift the focus away from Optimus Prime --- never gonna happen.

This is what I was getting at before. HasTak seems forever stuck in a rut of repeating the "popular" characters over and over again. EG rumours of yet another Optimus Prime in the MP line next year! It's ridiculous and the fanbase is just as much to blame as Hasbro themselves.
Yeah, many of the later edition Gestalt's weren't fantastic. Yet if Hasbro applied themselves to redesigning those lesser combiner teams today, instead of sticking to the Lazy/Safe option who knows how good the Horrorcons, Seacons etc could look with their current know-how?

Personally I love the Decepticons (there are subtle clues). They are the best characters in all of Transformers in my eyes. BUT, I am sick of seeing Devastator, Predaking and the Seekers heading up every Official and 3rd Party G1 based line, because fans and creators alike seem so resistant to change. Surely there are only so many times you can make the same Starscream and his alternate palettes?

But Optimus, Bumbleebee, et al are the main core. Every Star Trek Movie will have a Kirk and a Spock, or a facsimile there of. (unless they revive TNG...) they can't not repeat those characters. I am all for more, but you have to have the staples as well to anchor the series to the legacy

It reminds me of other lines I saw growing up. The ones with 15 variants of Batman/Wolverine/Spider-Man etc "Arctic Camo" "Jungle explorer", "Cyborg ____" et al
I'm not saying to stop making the core cast, but limit their release. For example, if there were two lines of, say Ten each, HasLab TF exclusives. Make ONE Prime for that line and that's it. Everyone else be someone different.
G1 grasped that concept in the 80's. The Transformers contains more than the core roster. HasTak needs to occasionally ignore "the fans" and remember that.

There is no need for "Golden" Optimus Prime or "Stealth Camo" Bumblebee sharing space with MP-10 Prime and MP-21 Bumblebee. Novelty "special edition" or not, they simply become shelfwarmers and I'm sure sales should reflect that.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It reminds me of other lines I saw growing up. The ones with 15 variants of Batman/Wolverine/Spider-Man etc "Arctic Camo" "Jungle explorer", "Cyborg ____" et al
I'm not saying to stop making the core cast, but limit their release. For example, if there were two lines of, say Ten each, HasLab TF exclusives. Make ONE Prime for that line and that's it. Everyone else be someone different.
G1 grasped that concept in the 80's. The Transformers contains more than the core roster. HasTak needs to occasionally ignore "the fans" and remember that.

There is no need for "Golden" Optimus Prime or "Stealth Camo" Bumblebee sharing space with MP-10 Prime and MP-21 Bumblebee. Novelty "special edition" or not, they simply become shelfwarmers and I'm sure sales should reflect that.

I think you're stuck in your own thoughts at this point and you can't accept anything else. NO ONE EVER SAID THAT SCORPONOK WON'T HAPPEN. Quite the opposite actually, for all we know he'll be the next Titan release after Predaking. Titan class is a size class just like deluxe or leader and they're running out of G1 characters to fill that class. Scorponok, Omega Supreme, Grandus, Unicron, Primus and possibly Raiden are the only characters that could warrant a Titan release apart from repaints, so he'll get a figure. You just need to be patient.

As for your point about more obscure characters not getting figures, did you completely ignore the Titans return line? Pretty much that entire line was made up of lesser known characters apart from the 86 movie crew. They have to supplement staple characters into their obscure ones so that Johnny 6 year old and recognize something.

And finally for your Masterpiece repaint rant, repaints keep the line going. They can't keep churning out new molds all the time. Repaints are a cost effective way to pump cash into the budget so that new molds can be made. It's the same in pretty much every toy line ever.

megatronus wrote:So, I've seen:

-Unicron enthusiasm
-Titan Tidal Wave
-Ark/Nemesis sets
-TF/GI Joe Crossover

What other 'grails' (let's leave Scorponok & Omega Supreme out of this for now) would we want to see? I don't think we necessarily need to think beyond the Titan concept, but if we stay within that mindset, we should go for some unique redeco...

Metrotitan? He'd be neat.

Quintessons? Face swap gimmick a must!

If we leave Omega Supreme out, then I'm out. I don't mean that to sound snarky, it's just that he is the only large character I'd be willing to drop 500 dollars on, if done right of course.

I have zero interest in a fancy Unicron, or city bots. Tidal Wave, though, I would have serious interest in.

Ironhidensh wrote:

megatronus wrote:So, I've seen:

-Unicron enthusiasm
-Titan Tidal Wave
-Ark/Nemesis sets
-TF/GI Joe Crossover

What other 'grails' (let's leave Scorponok & Omega Supreme out of this for now) would we want to see? I don't think we necessarily need to think beyond the Titan concept, but if we stay within that mindset, we should go for some unique redeco...

Metrotitan? He'd be neat.

Quintessons? Face swap gimmick a must!

If we leave Omega Supreme out, then I'm out. I don't mean that to sound snarky, it's just that he is the only large character I'd be willing to drop 500 dollars on, if done right of course.

I have zero interest in a fancy Unicron, or city bots. Tidal Wave, though, I would have serious interest in.

We're leaving Omega out because he'll most likely get a retail Titan figure soon enough

steals_your_goats wrote:I think you're stuck in your own thoughts at this point and you can't accept anything else. NO ONE EVER SAID THAT SCORPONOK WON'T HAPPEN.

Nor did I I think you've got some wires crossed in a conversation that had already finished. Alongside reiterating points already made by others. At the end of the day my interest in the Toys is as only a Collector now. That means the MP line and by extension the Titans Return/Generations City Bots (only because I picked up Fort Max and Trypticon on sale) and so, to that end, I have no interest at all in the lesser typical retail lines. Although my "rant" was strictly speaking as a hypothetical anyway. I am well aware of what repaints mean to TF lines, you'd have to be stupid not to be.

A titan class tidal wave would be amazing. I remember that toy line (armada) was when I first started working, so middle school time for me, I never did find Tidal wave to go with Armada Megs, so getting a huge version, even without the combination to Megatron gimmick would be awesome.

I'm pretty content with the Amazon exclusive from 2011. HOWEVER...if they did a G1 version based on the original prototype from the '86 movie (but with modern engineering)I'd totally open my wallet with no hesitation what so ever.

Was that Unicron supposed to have an electronic gimmick? Looking over those pictures again I can see a flap that serves no purpose with the transformation.

I'm still happy with my old Armada Unicron. I feel that it is a classic now that holds up pretty well to the passage of time and doesn't need replaced, I also can't say that I have much interest in a giga-normous figure of anyone due to storage issues. I only just now finally made room to put my Titans Return Fort Max actually in my display cabinet... and he is just sitting by himself on the bottom shelf minus his head. I've skipped Tryps for the same reason. I mean, yeah, I could just keep big figs in a closet, but that's no fun. They should be displayed to some extent and I don't really have room for to do that for something as large as is being discussed here.

megatronus wrote:So, I've seen:

-Unicron enthusiasm
-Titan Tidal Wave
-Ark/Nemesis sets
-TF/GI Joe Crossover

What other 'grails' (let's leave Scorponok & Omega Supreme out of this for now) would we want to see? I don't think we necessarily need to think beyond the Titan concept, but if we stay within that mindset, we should go for some unique redeco...

Metrotitan? He'd be neat.

Quintessons? Face swap gimmick a must!

For me there's really only one character I can think of that would be truly crowdfund-worthy and not stand a chance in hell of ever seeing release at retail, not even as a modern reimagining (ignoring Vector Prime for a moment).



The Last Autobot. Not only would the size suit him, but it would also be in scale with many figures, including Leaders, at 30". Just picture a flight mode big enough that PotP Leader Optimus could ride inside the cockpit. I wanted this when I was 11 and I want it now and it makes me sad knowing I'll never get it.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:A Beast themed City Bot could have work just as well. Just saying.

But PotP isn't a beast themed line, it's a Prime Master/combiner themed line. We're only getting so many beasts by default since all of the non-beast combiners were used in Combiner Wars. This is why they were so desperate to get a bunch of non-beast characters into the line. Predaking getting the Titan slot is due to him being depicted often as a giant among giant combiners, him being made up of beast characters is secondary.

ZeroWolf wrote:Was that Unicron supposed to have an electronic gimmick? Looking over those pictures again I can see a flap that serves no purpose with the transformation.

You can see speaker vents on his chest. The Japanese version (believed to be slightly different) would have had more complex electronics with a base that might have rotated and a moon that would have done something. But no chest vents so probably no sounds from the figure itself.



Emerje

I have the same storage issues with the City Bots. When I eventually finish up the stickers on Fort Max and Trypticon, I only have a single top shelf to store them and only in City Mode. Fort Max is too tall otherwise.

NeonPrime wrote:

G1toy-UnicronprotoHasbro.jpg

I'm pretty content with the Amazon exclusive from 2011. HOWEVER...if they did a G1 version based on the original prototype from the '86 movie (but with modern engineering)I'd totally open my wallet with no hesitation what so ever.

It's so crazy they never released that. Even if the prototype ended up being the final product, that would have sold out everywhere. It is funny that although from the same era, just as a prototype, Unicron visually appears a lot more refined and poseable than Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus etc

I wouldn't say more posable, hard to tell from photos but I think moving his arms up or down may be the only thing he can do. He looks way too top heavyv to attempt anything other than standing to attention. Although I wonder given the state of the economy, how much would he have retailed for and how many retailers would of taken him on

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It's so crazy they never released that. Even if the prototype ended up being the final product, that would have sold out everywhere. It is funny that although from the same era, just as a prototype, Unicron visually appears a lot more refined and poseable than Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus etc

The new movie characters (aside from Ultra Magnus) were made in a hurry so they'd be out in time for the movie. They appeared to have been going all out on Unicron which probably delayed its production. They were apparently having some issue with the arm mechanism and I would imagine by the time they would have finally gotten all of the issues sorted out they would have had Fortress Maximus in production so it really wouldn't have been worth pursuing any further.

Emerje

steals_your_goats wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Exactly, Predaking. Who wasn't even a part of the list Trypticon won. Licensing issues aside, when was the last time you saw Hasbro make Omega Supreme? The G1 Encore from 2008. When was the last time they made G1 Scorponok? A Japan-exclusive repaint in 1988..

In Hasbro's eyes, these are not retail releases. Unicron has been since 2003.

Right, obviously they're not going to release the poll losers immediately after the winner. What would have been the point then? And the poll was for the next Titan not which figure gets a Titan. They're going to do the other two people just need to be patient. And you obviously missed my point about Predaking matching the current play pattern. That is a big deal to Hasbro with this trilogy. Omega and Scorponok are going to happen and they're going to be retail releases.

So why can't Unicron be one? What would seem to be this concern? The pricing? It really doesn't have to be three feet tall or more. Yes I know to have it scaled properly and all that but that's what I seem to see people saying is it might be too big or create a space issue. I know if there was one that big and I purchased it, it's going on the floor.

megatronus wrote:

I wouldn't say Transformers is necessarily second tier to Hasbro's licensed properties, like Star Wars and Marvel, but I highly, highly doubt Unicron was the 'first thing' on board. That's the point of this thread - to gauge interest! The Brand Team is legit curious if there's support for a project like this within the fan community. My understanding is that Transformers fans tend to have less expendable income than, say, Star Wars or Marvel fans, so support for or ability to fund a more-expensive-than-Titan project is genuine question.

I wouldn't quite agree with the bolded. I do think Marvel and Star Wars in general have a larger fanbase and with a larger fanbase, the pool is bigger so there may be people(or just more people) out there with deep pockets. That is something I could see being brought up in a discussion about whether or not to produce something.

Diehard Star Wars fans seem to have more to contend with due to the sheer volume of toys that have been made. Some people even dedicate a large portion of their entire home to their collection. So maybe there is a mentality there that exists due to the types of toys made(think of all the big ships and whatnot)and the general state of what exists as far as number of toys goes. You would have to be rich to be a Star Wars completionist. I can't recall a time when I have gone to a toy store and not seen Star Wars toys on the shelves. So I have the feeling that Hasbro knows if they make a Star Wars toy, no matter the cost or size, it has a fighting chance to sell.

Maybe that's not something they feel they can do with Transformers. If they feel they can do it with Marvel, once these movies cool off, we will see how that goes.

lakebot wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Exactly, Predaking. Who wasn't even a part of the list Trypticon won. Licensing issues aside, when was the last time you saw Hasbro make Omega Supreme? The G1 Encore from 2008. When was the last time they made G1 Scorponok? A Japan-exclusive repaint in 1988..

In Hasbro's eyes, these are not retail releases. Unicron has been since 2003.

Right, obviously they're not going to release the poll losers immediately after the winner. What would have been the point then? And the poll was for the next Titan not which figure gets a Titan. They're going to do the other two people just need to be patient. And you obviously missed my point about Predaking matching the current play pattern. That is a big deal to Hasbro with this trilogy. Omega and Scorponok are going to happen and they're going to be retail releases.

So why can't Unicron be one? What would seem to be this concern? The pricing? It really doesn't have to be three feet tall or more. Yes I know to have it scaled properly and all that but that's what I seem to see people saying is it might be too big or create a space issue. I know if there was one that big and I purchased it, it's going on the floor.

It absolutely could be, but a handful of fans seemed to reinforce in Warden's head that we want something more premium than they can offer at retail so they at least appear to be considering the idea. I think Hasbro already knows what they want to do with Unicron and what fans want probably wont have a huge effect on that in the long run. They wouldn't have started HasLab without writing up a long list of things they can do with it. I think we'll see Unicron and Primus as Titans sooner or later, the next Generations trilogy does take place on Cybertron after all.

Emerje

I would consider supporting this idea for Unicron, but Size could be an issue.

hurricane567 wrote:How about a G1 Ark that opens into a playset for Legion scale Transformers?

THis. They should be making play sets for the Transformers of all sizes

Been spending some time cleaning the basement and found some display bases that you put on the wall from my son's bakugan collection. Nothing fancy, hexagon with metal on them so you could display the toys via their magnetic gimmick. Made me think, it's not a TF, but what if they did something like that? Interlocking emerging cubes to display your figures in, either stacked on the floor or placed on a wall.