The Energon Pub

@ Autobobby 1 - Here we go with the standard troll argument...If I just say it suxa$$ and flame everybody I'm a troll, but if I give substance based arguments that challenge you I'm also a troll...I'm whatever you want me to be...Just know I'm gonna bring substance to offset my masochism...I'm about to get off from work, so I'll answer all of your charges once I curl up at my home computer...For now i'll just say, just because something was meant to sell toys, and a merchandise effort is created to that end, doesn't mean it has to be crap...TF sells itself...The most hits in internet history of a trailer leak...You honestly think a story and movie that met more than basic generic Bayisms wouldn't STILL sell toys?? For shame dude...

wingdarkness wrote:@ Autobobby 1 - Here we go with the standard troll argument...If I just say it suxa$$ and flame everybody I'm a troll, but if I give substance based arguments that challenge you I'm also a troll...I'm whatever you want me to be...Just know I'm gonna bring substance to offset my masochism...I'm about to get off from work, so I'll answer all of your charges once I curl up at my home computer...For now i'll just say, just because something was meant to sell toys, and a merchandise effort is created to that end, doesn't mean it has to be crap...TF sells itself...The most hits in internet history of a trailer leak...You honestly think a story and movie that met more than basic generic Bayisms wouldn't STILL sell toys?? For shame dude...

forgive them, they know not what they say...... can't believe there are g1 haters personally and I have never had respect for bay after belittling transformers as a toy movie. I can't argue with these guys lol

Don't even bother with part 3 or 4, just reboot it ... just hope he doesnt change his mind

SamYarbrough77 wrote:I have never had respect for bay after belittling transformers as a toy movie.

Are you saying it isnt?

syphonn wrote:Don't even bother with part 3 or 4, just reboot it ... just hope he doesnt change his mind

Reboot it so that i can tell the same story that g1 told 25 years ago?


It can go with further adventures, but a reboot is not what it needs.

wingdarkness wrote:@ Autobobby 1 - Here we go with the standard troll argument...If I just say it suxa$$ and flame everybody I'm a troll, but if I give substance based arguments that challenge you I'm also a troll...I'm whatever you want me to be...Just know I'm gonna bring substance to offset my masochism...I'm about to get off from work, so I'll answer all of your charges once I curl up at my home computer...

You are not a troll for having a conflicting opinion. I respect your right to make independent decisions. The fact that you said this makes you a troll:

wingdarkness wrote:You best believe if I’m gonna bash that movie and the next senseless, I’m gonna see them, just to know what I’m talking about…Understanding your enemy is the only way to defeat them…Remember that buddy…

There is no substance to your complaints. You say Bay raped your childhood when all he did was make a film you dislike. You say you'll bash this movie and the next one no matter how good they are. You even go as far as calling any Bay supporters the enemy! You are officially a troll. Keep in mind that this is just a message board on which we discuss a movie about robots that turn into vehicles. This is not life-threatening, this is nowhere near serious, and you don't have to be so belligerent.

Also, you misunderstood my comment on the film being a toy commercial. I didn't mean that it gives MB the right to make a crappy movie (which, in my opinion, he did not). I meant that all TransFormers movies, cartoons, video games, and comic books have always been and will always be a toy commercial to some degree. Therefore you can't bash the movie for being a toy commercial without bashing G1, G2, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, the Unicron Trilogy, Animated, the Marvel comics, and the Dreamwave comics at the same time, as they are all guilty of trying to make you buy toys.

If you have any further confusion over whether or not you are a troll, please direct your browser to this thread. It's an announcement for a good reason.

Bay not quitting Transformers
06/18/2009 08:27 PM
Nelson here... in response to reports that Michael is done and wants nothing to do with Transformers, Michael says:


Hah, love press how they spin. Never said it - just wanted a vacation is more to the point. And no I don't read the good or the bad reviews.

neener, neener, neener................

=Autobobby1: If every movie was directed in the same dark style nobody would go to the movies anymore. Who wants to see a bunch of depressing movies? Sure, we need films like Watchmen once in a while, but don't forget that movies are just an elaborate form of escapism.

All I'm saying is that comic-book//cartoon movies seem to be trending away from camp, and more toward more realistic or tangible portrayals (And have been ridiculously successful aswell)...How does that equal depressing? Ironman wasn't escapism? Darknight? Casino Royal? Oh I see what you're saying sometimes we just need mindless drivel to escape reality...OK, TF1 is certainly that...But to breakaway from my so obvious troll standards of posting I'll just say darker realism doesn't mean no fun, just more real...

TransFormers will always be an show-/movie-length commercial. It has been since G1 and continues to be that to this day. It's just a coincidence that we happen to like the stories they wrap the toys around just as much as the toys themselves. If you're a part of this fanbase you should know that like the back of your hand.

I know that like the front of my hands...Again just cause something is trying to sell merchandise (Like every comic- remake in modern film history) doesn't mean it can't be above average in the areas of story or overall production...Us 6 year olds are now 30, we can see thru the BS a little bit better now (I hope)...

Do you remember what happened when they rebooted Batman after the first two successful films? Two abominations were created: Batman Forever and Batman & Robin. They were so bad that Hollywood became afraid of superhero movies and it took them seven years just to re-reboot it. But, you know, maybe a similar situation would be for the best. It would make everyone realize how good TF1 (and presumably ROTF) actually are!

Dude, why is this mutually exclusive? Many critics would say TF1 IS the Batman & Robin, and a reboot might give us a Darknight...Kinda left yourself open on that one...

There is no substance to your complaints. You say Bay raped your childhood when all he did was make a film you dislike. You say you'll bash this movie and the next one no matter how good they are. You even go as far as calling any Bay supporters the enemy! You are officially a troll. Keep in mind that this is just a message board on which we discuss a movie about robots that turn into vehicles. This is not life-threatening, this is nowhere near serious, and you don't have to be so belligerent.

Now this is where I vehemently digress....First off who are you the substance police? I'll put my 80 posts vs. your 3000 anyday if substance is the name of the game...I clearly provided ample reasoning behind why I don't enjoy Bay's level of creativity (or lack thereof) for a TF franchise...If you feel belittled that's your deal..I never let someone on the net make me feel that way because I'm confident in my grasp of issues and my ability to communicate them...You may come on the net to shoot the breeze but understand not everyone considers net-posting the same...Perhaps it's your laizzes-faire attitude that lets you accept a TF movie filled with common Bayisms, but I'm simply not you and have more respect for TF (Yes I know not every feels this way, but I do)...

Finally I NEVER said that I was gonna bash the next movie with malice alla your revisionist history...i said "You best believe IF I’m gonna bash that movie and the next senseless, I’m gonna see them, just to know what I’m talking about..."...Or would you rather your trolls mindlessly bash $hit with no regard of ever watching the actual content?? Yeah that's what you want...What I said is simply a Sun Tzu methodology of expression...I.E. Not your average troll i guess...

SamYarbrough77 wrote: forgive them, they know not what they say...... can't believe there are g1 haters personally and I have never had respect for bay after belittling transformers as a toy movie. I can't argue with these guys lol

You can't argue cause you have no argument. In fact, i have yet to see you give any valid argument against why you dislike the movie or why it was bad.

Belittling it as a toy movie? What the hell was the 86' movie??

NO one is hating on G1. You need to understand that not everyone holds G1 on as high a pedestal as you do. You also need to realise that those that don't are no less TF fans than you are. (or vise versa)

wingdarkness wrote:

All I'm saying is that comic-book//cartoon movies seem to be trending away from camp, and more toward more realistic or tangible portrayals (And have been ridiculously successful aswell)...

That's funny. Cause that's exactly what Bay did! And it was ridiculously successful to boot!

wingdarkness wrote:Dude, why is this mutually exclusive? Many critics would say TF1 IS the Batman & Robin, and a reboot might give us a Darknight...Kinda left yourself open on that one...

How did he open himself up? His points were valid, and brings up quite a few points.
First, its hard to compare TF1 to Batman and Robin considering how successful it was. Critics reviews don't mean **** anyways. Especially when that movie made $750,000,000 world wide. And i don't buy the argument of..
"Just cause it made a lot of money, and was a box office smash doesn't mean it was a good movie."
..Cause it does.
But back to the Joel Schumacher batman movies, this is a perfect example of when basing your movie completely off source material and using a director that is a "Fan" does not equal success. Lets compare his movies, (Batman & Robin/Batman Forever) to Christopher Nolan's Batman movies. (Batman Begins/The Dark Knight)
Which was closer to source material and the original series in looks, and characters? Which was considered an abomination by fans, critics, and general public alike? Which was considered to have a great story, acting, plot etc? Which was more successful? Which had more "Substance" so to speak?
Will a darker, more serious tone work for a live action TF movie? Maybe. And maybe not. But B&R, and BF are proof that it takes a lot more than just using a director that is a fan of the franchise to make a movie that's "respectful to the franchise" so to speak.

5150 Cruiser wrote:And i don't buy the argument of..
"Just cause it made a lot of money, and was a box office smash doesn't mean it was a good movie."
..Cause it does.

Actually I have to respectfully disagree with this.

$750 million at the box office makes it a SUCCESSFUL movie.

What makes a movie good or bad is an individuals personal opinion.

Which brings me to this

SamYarbrough77 wrote: forgive them, they know not what they say...... can't believe there are g1 haters personally and I have never had respect for bay after belittling transformers as a toy movie. I can't argue with these guys lol

You're right Sam, you CAN'T argue with people. We're all entitled to our opinions and we're all allowed to express them provided they fall within the rules of this forum. You may not agree with them, but you have to show them some form of respect by accepting that their opinion differs from yours.

And that goes for everyone.

No baiting, no trolling, no abusing. Respectfully disagree with someone but make your point (and actually give it substance) and move on.

Burn wrote:You're right Sam, you CAN'T argue with people. We're all entitled to our opinions and we're all allowed to express them provided they fall within the rules of this forum. You may not agree with them, but you have to show them some form of respect by accepting that their opinion differs from yours.

And that goes for everyone.

No baiting, no trolling, no abusing. Respectfully disagree with someone but make your point (and actually give it substance) and move on.

You suck Burn

After all these years I am one of the few ppl who can say that to you and skip away whistling

As for a reboot if Bay goes. I think some are too trigger happy with reboots these days. Build upon what is already there and just make sure the writting is better instead of relying on kick ass fight scene's ... but don't neglect the kick ass fight scene's ... but with better writing ... and fighting ... and a better story .. and a naked Megan Fox ... wrestling in jelly

p.s Burn sucks

I said no trolling ...

There's no real need for a reboot, even if I would like to see a shift to a slightly less purile tone. Franchises, such as the Bond and Batman films, have at times changed tone without doing a total reboot. While I am not fond of some of the qualities Bay brought to the first movie, if anything I would say the series could do with a change of writers more than a change of director. I haven't seen ROTF yet, and for all I know they may well have written a much better script, but some of the things I've heard make me a little sceptical.

@ 5150 Cruiser - He left himself open because he’s assuming I (or anti-Bayformer fans) consider his adaptation in the same realm as a Darknight, Ironman, etc. Instead of something generic and made for the lowest common denominator like TF1 or Batman & Robin…If critics don’t mean $hit (you and Micheal Bay’s tag-slogan I guess) then what’s the point of me posting back? I don’t mean $hit, cause TF was so universally brilliant, so please ignore me…Right?

"Just cause it made a lot of money, and was a box office smash doesn't mean it was a good movie."

Last Action Hero made a grip-load of money too…So did Godzilla...Loads of $hitty movies make money…TF sells itself though, seemingly any director would have gotten supreme interest from the hungry fanbase…I mean I’m 30 now and I remember me and my friends hoping for a TF real-movie since like 10th grade…TF was always gonna sell, but you know in your heart there could have been a much better adaptation of TF for the silver screen...Like settling for a wife because it's time for you to get married when you know the chick of dreams is still out there...


As for your point about Schumacker, dude you totally missed your mark here…Schumacker has been skewered by a good deal of the hardcores…Source Material? What SM had Batgirl as Alfred’s Grandaughter and not Commissioner Gordon’s kid?? Sheeeesh, Get that together…

Not to mention Batman Forever made loads of money. Internationally, it was the highest grossing movie of it's year, so going by the logic laid down earlier it was a good movie. I mean, I rather like it personally, but I assume Cruiser doesn't.

Wow, this thread sure has spiraled out of control. Bay was misquoted, certain Bay haters should be less belligerent.

[/thread]

Autobobby1 wrote:Wow, this thread sure has spiraled out of control. Bay was misquoted, certain Bay haters should be less belligerent.

[/thread]

Well I guess that's that then...

Steamed_Ham wrote:Not to mention Batman Forever made loads of money. Internationally, it was the highest grossing movie of it's year, so going by the logic laid down earlier it was a good movie. I mean, I rather like it personally, but I assume Cruiser doesn't.

Well I actually liked BF aswell, and unlike some I didn't think Val Kilmer totally stunk up the joint, but Batman & Robin is perhaps the most odious Batman incarnation of alltime...Horrid, even more horrid than TF1, but not much more...

Here's a scary moment: when I bring things *back* to the topic! (Hold me, I'm scared!!!)

Let's apply a little logic here:

Bay pros:
* he does a darn good action sequence
* he's got HUGE name recognition
* studios trust him with buckets of money
* he is one of the few directors who doesn't make the US military look blazingly incompetent (hey, it may not matter to you, but it does matter to us vets!)
* even though you may hate the franchise, his movie I guarantee created more new fans than completely shut off old ones--which I think is always good for TF!

Bay cons:
* the plots for most of his movies range from 'thin' to 'cheez'
* he is kind of an arrogant ass who likes to play mindgames
* he is not a die-hard Transfan, meaning he has no loyalty to any Transformers mythos. Or the fans. Or anyone other than himself.
* his ego. Yes, I know I already mentioned that, but his ego really does deserve two bullet-points.

Other factors:
* Whether or not you like Bay's 'verse, it's a whole new TF playground, and IDW has been doing some pretty cool things with it, which I hear they plan on continuing. New stories and angles that even Bay haters might like (it's a possibility!)
*Bay's got more money than God, so I'm not sure how much the pull of oodles of cash would be to draw him to a new TF movie
*Orci, who is also apparently playing footsie about involvement in a TF3, seems to think pretty solidly a third is in the works. Orci could be talking out his...ummm, *hat*, or planning is already going on.

Now, HK's very own conspiracy-theory take on all of this:

I think there's a lot of anxiety in H-wood about this movie. Look at all the toy *sales* going on--2fers and all that. It seems that the numbers for toy sales aren't adding up the way *someone* wants them to add up (which is kinda ludicrous b/c the movie hasn't even hit yet). It seems that as much as everyone's bragging about how huge the movie's going to be, they're really not that sure--why move the release date up? To boost 'opening weekend' sales figures, by starting the opening weekend a day early.

Bay's hedging his bets. If this movie does bring in all the money it's supposed to, my bet's he'll stick around for TF3. If not, he's already laid the ground for his 'exit strategy'--we can all look back to now, before the movie (hypothetically) flopped, and say, well, even before it opened he said he was going to bail....

HK, back, and crazy as always!