G1 one is even more old and aged than Beast Wars. If you can get passed the "80s retro" feel of G1, then Beast Wars should feel like a similar "90s retro" feel to it.jindrak wrote:So with both ends of the current series covered, I naturally want to get into everything that's transpired during my long hiatus. Beastwars complete series is on netflix! Perfect!
But..I just cant get past how much it shows it's age. The sound effects and CGI are straight out of Everquests era, and I just am unable to just enjoy it for what it is.
In a word, yes! It was far more complex and compellingly made with its deep character-driven plots and story arcs. Aside from G1, it is most likely the most influential Transformers series ever made, with every series to come after it owing something to it. It is widely regarded as one of (if not THE) best Transformers cartoons of all time.jindrak wrote:So tell me; is beastwars the G1 of the generation after mine?
Some might think of it nostalgically, but for the most part, it was really well made and even fans who didn't grow up it, having been born later, have watched it and enjoyed it greatly.jindrak wrote:Is it beloved because it was what people grew up with and their nostalgia glasses let them overlook the age of the series?
Well, like I said, it's a "retro 90s" series. It was one of the first CGI cartoons of its time and is ntarually not going to be quite up-to-date with the technical production quality of today's CGI shows.jindrak wrote:I hear great things about it from just about everyone on every board, and don't want to miss out, but it's tough to get psyched up about.
Help!
Here's a rundown of every cartoon after Beast Wars:jindrak wrote:OK, I can definitely give it a shot, especially knowing that it develops more as the seasons progress!
Are there any series to wait until last to watch? I've heard Armada and Energon are pretty poor.
The numbers mostly remain even for the entire series run, even when both sides gain (and lose) more members.PrymeStriker wrote:jindrak wrote:Oddly, I find the fact that the Predacons and Maximals are balanced 5 on 5 rather than the 10 to one odds the poor Autobots seem to suffer in every other series
In the overall series, there a few more Predacons than Maximals. I don't remember how they kept the balance in each season, though. It's been a long time since I have seen Beast Wars.
Subtitles are no reason to skip a series. Granted, while a child may not take to them, you could still watch them yourself.Nutimus Prime wrote:Im watching all the Transformers series with my daughter, most for my first time too. At least what I find age appropriate so we skipped Japanese stuff because of the subtitles
Beast Machines is probably the most intellectually stimulating of any Transformers cartoon, being very highbrow and philosophical in its story.Nutimus Prime wrote:and will probably skip Beast Machines from what Ive heard.
"The rest... is silence."Nutimus Prime wrote:We started with G1 and we just finished season 2 of Beast Wars. She loves it and I do too. My little brothers watched Beast Wars when it aired but I never really did. Now that Im going through Transformers history I have to say Beast Wars IS amazing. Characters, story, everything. I dont usually judge older stuff too harshly on visual quality, etc. because technology always gets better. You cant flat out say a movie is crap because its black and white and was filmed in the 20s. Other aspects need to be evaluated. Classics and all that.
We watched "Code of Hero" last night and I just thought wow she may not really be getting this all right now but I am and holy crap. Now I see why its a fan favorite. "A deed once done cannot be undone.." Thats all Ill say.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Kewl.jindrak wrote:Quite honestly though, I am so friggin cuckoo for TFs right now, I'll most likely watch everything I can get my hands on Feels good to be young again.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Chaoslock wrote:PrymeStriker wrote:jindrak wrote:OK, I can definitely give it a shot, especially knowing that it develops more as the seasons progress!
Are there any series to wait until last to watch? I've heard Armada and Energon are pretty poor.
RiD and Beast Machines were gutwrenchingly horrid.
RiD was... But Beast Machines is a must-see-once for every tf fan. It's a lot darker than BW, and the ending is not optimal, but it is a good continuation of BW.
Sabrblade wrote:Subtitles are no reason to skip a series. Granted, while a child may not take to them, you could still watch them yourself.
Sabrblade wrote:Beast Machines is probably the most intellectually stimulating of any Transformers cartoon, being very highbrow and philosophical in its story.
BeastProwl wrote:If your going to watch Prime with your daughter, note that it's more mature than Beast Machines! It has real Robo-Gore. Beast Machines is dark, yeah. But not as dark as prime.
Henry921 wrote:You can always be counted on to listen to reason, Pryme.
Dead Metal wrote:Have you ever, and i mean ever seen/read/heard something that is completely original and does not copy/homage/pay tribute to something else? Here's a hint: Nope. You never have and you never will.
Ah, right then.Nutimus Prime wrote:When I say child I mean my preschool age daughter. So she definitely wont be taking to reading the subtitles lol.
Agreed.Nutimus Prime wrote:Im already pushing some boundaries as far as what Im allowing her to watch, Transformers wise I mean, but she knows the difference between pretend and real so its working well at the moment. No Bay movies thats for sure lol.
Right on.Nutimus Prime wrote:Ill be grabbing all 3 G1 Japanese series to watch for myself and when shes a bit older we can start them.
It's more like she may not quite understand all that's going on aside from "good guys fighting bad guys". If anything, she might be a bit bored with it if it doesn't keep her attention going.Nutimus Prime wrote:As for Beast Machines I will definitely watch it after Beast Wars but Im debating her introduction to it. I may watch each episode, make sure its appropriate, then watch with her.
If you haven't seen them, don't skip them. Regardless of their quality, they are important parts of the Transformers brand history and were the biggest things of their time. And they're especially good for kids in their own ways:Nutimus Prime wrote:When we finish Beast Wars/ Beast Machines I have some decisions to make. I wanted to watch all english series in chronological order but Im debating skipping over Robots in Disguise, Armada, Energon, Cybertron and Animated. If so we are jumping right to Prime and Rescue Bots. Im excited for Prime and Rescue Bots looks very fun for kids.
Rodimus Prime wrote:I think she would like Armada and Animated, especially the latter. It's very fun and visual. As for Beast Machines, definitely wait until later with it. You can watch it and make your own mind up about it, but it's not really for kids. Very dark and depressing. Personally, I think it's the worst TF series after Cybertron, but that's just my opinion.
I dunno what you guys are talking about, but I LOVED Beast Machines as kid (I was still in grade school when it came on), and I had those kinds of parent who shielded me from everything and anything objectionable. Yet, Beast Machines was considered okay and I came to like it even moreso as I got older and understood it better.PrymeStriker wrote:BeastProwl wrote:If your going to watch Prime with your daughter, note that it's more mature than Beast Machines! It has real Robo-Gore. Beast Machines is dark, yeah. But not as dark as prime.
Beast Machines isn't really as dark in my opinion, but it sure is creepier and more depressing than Prime. Beast Machines gave me nightmares as a child, especially that Blackarachnia.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:I dunno what you guys are talking about, but I LOVED Beast Machines as kid (I was still in grade school when it came on), and I had those kinds of parent who shielded me from everything and anything objectionable. Yet, Beast Machines was considered okay and I came to like it even moreso as I got older and understood it better.PrymeStriker wrote:BeastProwl wrote:If your going to watch Prime with your daughter, note that it's more mature than Beast Machines! It has real Robo-Gore. Beast Machines is dark, yeah. But not as dark as prime.
Beast Machines isn't really as dark in my opinion, but it sure is creepier and more depressing than Prime. Beast Machines gave me nightmares as a child, especially that Blackarachnia.
Henry921 wrote:You can always be counted on to listen to reason, Pryme.
Dead Metal wrote:Have you ever, and i mean ever seen/read/heard something that is completely original and does not copy/homage/pay tribute to something else? Here's a hint: Nope. You never have and you never will.
Well, okay, that makes sense.PrymeStriker wrote:When Beast Machines was out, I was in pre-school.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
There are TONS of varying opinions on all of these shows, so your best bet would be to few them for yourself and form your own.Nutimus Prime wrote:So Robots in Disguise and Animated arent as bad as some people make them out to be? As long as my daughter likes it we will watch it then. Hub has been airing Animated in widescreen HD so I was hoping to see it rereleased or wait until I can record it.
I know the Unicron Trilogy has a lot of opinions on quality whether it be plot, animation, dubbing, etc. We may end up watching it. But every series we watch adds more time before I can watch the show I was interested in starting, Prime lol.
Is Prime that bad for young ones? Ive skimmed some episodes because Im buying the Blu-rays in anticipation of us starting it but I havent seen anything crazy yet. Like I said Ive only watched pieces at a time. I know Cliffjumper goes byebye in the first episode or so but I havent actually watched it yet. I guess Prime may be a show I watch each episode first then decide if its ok to watch with her.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:There are TONS of varying opinions on all of these shows, so your best bet would be to few them for yourself and form your own.
For me, I hold no delusions over Robots in Disguise, it is nothing great. But I loved it as a kid and consider it a guilty pleasure of mine.
The Unicron Trilogy is a mixed bag. Armada got better as it went on, Energon got worse as it went on, and Cybertron was decent all around.
Go-Bots is just pure zany lulz and catchiness.
Animated really only gets hated on because of its cartoony art style and quirky characters. But it's really a diamond in the rough with great storytelling and characterization.
Prime is only really dark in certain episodes, but it's only the robots that the violence affects, so there's nothing overtly gruesome on the human side. And it does have its fair share of lighter-toned fun episodes with humor and such.
Thing is, it was never released on DVD in the U.S. (only in the UK).Nutimus Prime wrote:Welp Ill have to give RiD a shot. I was living in Germany when it aired and couldnt really find the time, or channel lol, to watch it.
Well, it was only four episodes and released very weirdly. The first two episodes were on a pack-in VHS tape that came with one of the toys, and the other two episodes were aired on TV only twice and in Chicago and New York areas. But, all four can be found on YouTube or downloaded (in low quality only, though) here.Nutimus Prime wrote:Go-Bots Ill have to grab just to have a Saturday morning marathon.
Don't forget Armada, Energon, and Cybertron, just for completion's sake.Nutimus Prime wrote:Ill get Animated as soon as all the episodes have aired in widescreen. They may have already actually. The comparison shots show its much better than when it originally aired. In any case, since I have all the other series to watch first I should have plenty of time to get Animated.
So is everyone else since all the good ones are so hard to find these days.Nutimus Prime wrote:Prime just seems like a well balanced show for all ages. Not that Id say the others werent but the art direction, voice acting, toys, etc. of Prime really hook me. So when Xmas arrives we may have started Prime, and if we did, she will have plenty of Prime toys as a surprise. Theyre sitting in the closet waiting to be opened and Im in the process of getting the other deluxes and voyagers.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Thing is, RiD was never released on DVD in the U.S. (only in the UK).
Go-Bots was only four episodes and released very weirdly. The first two episodes were on a pack-in VHS tape that came with one of the toys, and the other two episodes were aired on TV only twice and in Chicago and New York areas. But, all four can be found on YouTube or downloaded (in low quality only, though) here.
Don't forget Armada, Energon, and Cybertron, just for completion's sake.
Yeah, the only TF cartoons on Netflix are G1, Beast Wars, Prime, and (finally!) Rescue Bots.Nutimus Prime wrote:Was debating Netflix for RiD but hadnt actually looked yet. I hate to say but I guess Ill have to turn to other sources for it.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
well, that old topic link I sent you also has some YouTube playlists for certain series and such.Nutimus Prime wrote:Thanks. I spent a solid day or two organizing/ researching everything Transformers lol. Time well spent now that we are actually working our way through the backlog.
Regarding Netflix I meant the physical DVDs. They occasionally have obscure things in stock. Armada and Cybertron are there but Energon only has a compilation not the whole series. I have most everything from alternate sources anyway but I always try to go legit if available... or reasonably affordable.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Albeit, without tying it directly to either version (Sunbow cartoon or Marvel comic), preferring to remain vague on the matter by having it exist within its own unique G1 continuity that borrows elements from both instead of favoring one over the other.xyl360 wrote:And of course, as a G1 fan, I LOVED all the references to G1 and the fact that the writers chose to make it take place in the G1 continuity, some 3 centuries after the end of the Great War.
Regarding the writers forgetting the political nature of Cybertron during the BW cartoon, thing is, when BM was created, the authority and control of the series were handed off to a new team of writers and editors, with only a few of the same people involved in BW remaining on board for BM. Specifically, the head writers for BW, Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio, were not involved in BM. Instead, BM's story was crafted by the likes of Bob N. Skir and Marty Isenberg, neither of whom had worked on Beast Wars and so weren't entirely aware of the political state Bob and Larry had set up in the previous cartoon. While they could have gone back to review what had come before, they were instructed by Hasbro to start the series with a clean slate.xyl360 wrote:I guess what's most difficult for me about Beast Machines is the fact that it seems assumed that at the end everything is all rosey and peaceful now that Megatron is gone and all of Cybertron's inhabitants have been given bodies again and they're all technorganic. This ignores the political environment of Beast Wars on Cybertron completely, in which there was an uneasy treaty (the Pax Cybertronia) between the two factions (Predacons and Maximals) who were the decendents of the Decepticons and Autobots respectively. Yes, perhaps there would be peace for now now that Megatron has been eliminated, but for how long? Anyone who paid attention to Beast Wars would know that the Predacon Alliance was hardly content with how things were and planned to conquer Cybertron eventually and that the Maximals themselves were all too aware that the Predacons in general were not to be trusted. New bodies and a revitalized planet will not change that. If anything, assuming Energon for fuel is less of a concern given their now technorganic bodies, it simply increases the likelihood that the Predacons would stage an uprising to conquer the Maximals and take control of Cybertron. Galactic conquest and tyranny is in the very nature of the Decepticons and their descendents, the Predacons, are no different. I think the writers forgot that or simply chose to conveniently leave it out so that they could wrap up the G1 continuity as requested by Hasbro (who had already planned to drop the Transtech line/show, which was to be the successor to the Beast Machines story and continuation of the G1 continuity) and end everything happily.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Actually, most of the references in Beast Wars to G1 are taken directly from the G1 cartoon. The only one I'm aware of that stands out as being from the comics is Ravage speaking, but this is easily explained in the fact that he was reformatted (new software) and rebuilt (new hardware) as a Predacon, meaning they probably just installed a voicebox .Sabrblade wrote:Albeit, without tying it directly to either version (Sunbow cartoon or Marvel comic), preferring to remain vague on the matter by having it exist within its own unique G1 continuity that borrows elements from both instead of favoring one over the other.xyl360 wrote:And of course, as a G1 fan, I LOVED all the references to G1 and the fact that the writers chose to make it take place in the G1 continuity, some 3 centuries after the end of the Great War.
Yes, I'm quite aware of what the interviews on the DVD's say, but they're lying, at least partially. There's way too much that took place in Beast Wars that they got precisely right that they could not have guessed at were they really not at all familiar with Beast Wars, including the flashbacks to the events at the end of Beast Wars where Megatron is imprisoned on the hull of the Autobot shuttle. That's neither here nor there though, and I do understand what you're saying and I understand why they did it the way they did (they also didn't want to confuse kids by introducing 3 factions, i.e. Maximals, Vehicons AND Predacons, something they mention in those same interviews, though they did slip up at least once, where Rattrap and Cheetor are dealing with Tankor (Rhinox) and one of them says something like "Imagine if he were a Predacon").Sabrblade wrote:Regarding the writers forgetting the political nature of Cybertron during the BW cartoon, thing is, when BM was created, the authority and control of the series were handed off to a new team of writers and editors, with only a few of the same people involved in BW remaining on board for BM. Specifically, the head writers for BW, Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio, were not involved in BM. Instead, BM's story was crafted by the likes of Bob N. Skir and Marty Isenberg, neither of whom had worked on Beast Wars and so weren't entirely aware of the political state Bob and Larry had set up in the previous cartoon. While they could have gone back to review what had come before, they were instructed by Hasbro to start the series with a clean slate.xyl360 wrote:I guess what's most difficult for me about Beast Machines is the fact that it seems assumed that at the end everything is all rosey and peaceful now that Megatron is gone and all of Cybertron's inhabitants have been given bodies again and they're all technorganic. This ignores the political environment of Beast Wars on Cybertron completely, in which there was an uneasy treaty (the Pax Cybertronia) between the two factions (Predacons and Maximals) who were the decendents of the Decepticons and Autobots respectively. Yes, perhaps there would be peace for now now that Megatron has been eliminated, but for how long? Anyone who paid attention to Beast Wars would know that the Predacon Alliance was hardly content with how things were and planned to conquer Cybertron eventually and that the Maximals themselves were all too aware that the Predacons in general were not to be trusted. New bodies and a revitalized planet will not change that. If anything, assuming Energon for fuel is less of a concern given their now technorganic bodies, it simply increases the likelihood that the Predacons would stage an uprising to conquer the Maximals and take control of Cybertron. Galactic conquest and tyranny is in the very nature of the Decepticons and their descendents, the Predacons, are no different. I think the writers forgot that or simply chose to conveniently leave it out so that they could wrap up the G1 continuity as requested by Hasbro (who had already planned to drop the Transtech line/show, which was to be the successor to the Beast Machines story and continuation of the G1 continuity) and end everything happily.
Yep, I know. I think it would have been super awesome, but see above, I know why they didn't do it (but the story would have worked better if they had).Sabrblade wrote:Regarding the end result making Cybertron vulnerable to attack by the Predacons, this brings up two things.
First, in an early draft for BM, there was going to be both Maximals and Predacons fighting against the Vehicons together to take back the planet from Megatron, rather than just having the Maximals do that by themselves. Had this come about, there would have likely been a shift in the Predacon politics to have them ally themselves with their former enemies to save the planet both sides had come to call home the new usurper who had seized control of it. Though this story concept ultimately did not come about, there are some bits of this that still linger in canonical material, such as the BM Maximal Buzzsaw toy being the same character as the BW Predacon Buzz Saw toy.
Yes, I've read it. I really liked the Dreamwave Botcon Beast Wars comics, though there are elements I despise (like all of the G1 'survivors' like the Wreckers etc.), though I know that was just good ol' G1 fanwank.Sabrblade wrote:Secondly, I both agree and disagree with the notion that Cybertron was rendered even more vulnerable to enemy attack by the end of BM. Why both? Well, simply put, I must ask you an honest question. Have you ever read the BotCon comic series "Transformers: The Wreckers" (later retitled "Transformers: Universe - Featuring the Wreckers")? In this story, it is set both during and afterthe Beast Machines cartoon, reveals several concepts not told in the show itself, and ultimately led to a planned Quintesson invasion of Cybertron... one that was overwhelming the planet, and yet ultimately crushed by a colossal series of counterstrikes by so many parties fighting to save the technorganic Cybertron. It is a glorious read and helps to fill in some blanks of the show, as well as creating a few surprises along the way (like the revelation of Optimus Primal's mission to reformat Cybertron having been a ploy entriely orchestrated by the Quintessons using the Oracle to manipulate him so as to make the planet more vulnerable to attack and thus easier to conquer... only for the technorganic reformat revealed to have also been a Primus-ordained plan unbeknownst to every and all factions).
Though most were indeed taken from the cartoon, the BW cartoon officially treats the Generation 1 era as Arthurian legend, so as to not pick either the cartoon or the comic as being more truthful than its counterpart. So, they took elements from both and created a continuity that's a mixture of both.xyl360 wrote:Actually, most of the references in Beast Wars to G1 are taken directly from the G1 cartoon. The only one I'm aware of that stands out as being from the comics is Ravage speaking, but this is easily explained in the fact that he was reformatted (new software) and rebuilt (new hardware) as a Predacon, meaning they probably just installed a voicebox .Sabrblade wrote:Albeit, without tying it directly to either version (Sunbow cartoon or Marvel comic), preferring to remain vague on the matter by having it exist within its own unique G1 continuity that borrows elements from both instead of favoring one over the other.xyl360 wrote:And of course, as a G1 fan, I LOVED all the references to G1 and the fact that the writers chose to make it take place in the G1 continuity, some 3 centuries after the end of the Great War.
Beast Wars storylines are, in general, a subsection of the Generation 1 continuity family. But the Beast Wars cartoon does not adhere to any particular version of Generation 1 continuity that has been seen; instead it borrows facets from many and composites them into a sort of vague "mythology" that forms the Beast Wars characters' past.
Though the entire show takes place millions of years ago, the characters originated from a point 300 years into the future of Generation 1. Which Generation 1 is never made clear; the cartoon draws elements from both the original G1 comics and cartoons, and the writers stated that in the context of the cartoon, the events of the various Generation 1 stories should be regarded as something akin to Arthurian legend, rather than an exact history.
Well, they obviously would have had to know SOME details of the BW cartoon and its event in order to make BM match up with it. I didn't mean that they were completely in the dark of the BW cartoon, just that they may not have been aware of some of the more subtle specifics like the political state the BW cartoon hinted at.xyl360 wrote:Yes, I'm quite aware of what the interviews on the DVD's say, but they're lying, at least partially. There's way too much that took place in Beast Wars that they got precisely right that they could not have guessed at were they really not at all familiar with Beast Wars, including the flashbacks to the events at the end of Beast Wars where Megatron is imprisoned on the hull of the Autobot shuttle. That's neither here nor there though, and I do understand what you're saying and I understand why they did it the way they did (they also didn't want to confuse kids by introducing 3 factions, i.e. Maximals, Vehicons AND Predacons, something they mention in those same interviews, though they did slip up at least once, where Rattrap and Cheetor are dealing with Tankor (Rhinox) and one of them says something like "Imagine if he were a Predacon").
3H, not Dreamwave.xyl360 wrote:Yes, I've read it. I really liked the Dreamwave Botcon Beast Wars comics, though there are elements I despise (like all of the G1 'survivors' like the Wreckers etc.), though I know that was just good ol' G1 fanwank.
That's another one of the elements taken from the comic instead of the cartoon and makes BW its own unique continity instead of being one that takes the G1 cartoon as gospel.xyl360 wrote:I also didn't particularly like the references to Primus, since the only references in the G1 shows to him (including Beast Wars/Beast Machines) is in name alone and not once is he referenced as 'being Cybertron' so it was always assumed that he was some great leader from the past or a messiah-type figure to the Cybertronians.
Ever read the awesome that is "Singularity Ablyss"? In that story, which is set during the BM episode "Spark of Darkness", Megatron, while in a state of limbo until his spakr finally finds a new host body in the Diagnostic Drone he gets stuck in, is guided through the Allspark by Rhinox acting as a spirit guide for him, and everything Rhinox show him he misinterprets into him thinking he's the most important being of all (like, when he's shown that every spark pulses to the same cosmic rhythm, showing that all sparks are equal, he misinterprets this as thinking all sparks pulse to his own rhythm). From this, he takes it upon himself to untie all the sparks into his own very being. Rather than let himself become aprt of the collective, he set out to make himself become the collective.xyl360 wrote:This does spark another thought I've often had though, which I wrote about in a fanfic concept. The Autobots, ever since the G1 movie, always say "Til' all are one!". In reality, if taken literally, then that was precisely what Megatron was trying to do, unite all of the sparks on Cybertron and make them 'ONE' as in one single entity. In fact, to quote Beast Machines Megatron: "...Uniting every spark on Cybertron into one perfect being: ME!", though that obviously was likely not the writers' intent at any point in the series, but food for philosophical thought nonetheless.
...I don't remember him wanting that Matrix. He was after the Allspark, the afterlife dimension of all sparks, which is also known as the "Matrix". The physical talisman of G1 was a window to this place, but that'd do Megatron little good if he's got access to the Oracle.xyl360 wrote:In addition, I've had the idea that if Megatron had succeeded, but wanted to consume the Matrix itself and chose an opportune moment in history from which to retrieve it (i.e. following the death of Optimus Prime when it was passed to their new leader), he could have (assuming he has taken Cybertron as his new body a-la Unicron in the G1 series, Ghost in the Machine I believe?) used transwarp cells to transport himself, this planet-sized Transformer who now consumes matter the same way his super-spark consumes the sparks (souls) of Cybertronians in Beast Machines, back to the year 2005 when Optimus died in order to attempt to intercept the Matrix and consume the TF's and/or the Matrix (though admittedly he did ask Megatron/Galvatron to destroy it as I recall). Even the name would fit given 'Uni' means 'one' (i.e. Unicron) and that he was intent on consuming all life in the universe, including every spark on Cybertron.
Me too.xyl360 wrote:Sorry, way OT but it's a topic I'm kinda passionate about .
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Yes, but it cites no specifics. TFWiki wasn't written by the authors after all. I'd love to see some specific details on what it draws from the comics.Sabrblade wrote:Though most were indeed taken from the cartoon, the BW cartoon officially treats the Generation 1 era as Arthurian legend, so as to not pick either the cartoon or the comic as being more truthful than its counterpart. So, they took elements from both and created a continuity that's a mixture of both.xyl360 wrote:Actually, most of the references in Beast Wars to G1 are taken directly from the G1 cartoon. The only one I'm aware of that stands out as being from the comics is Ravage speaking, but this is easily explained in the fact that he was reformatted (new software) and rebuilt (new hardware) as a Predacon, meaning they probably just installed a voicebox .Sabrblade wrote:Albeit, without tying it directly to either version (Sunbow cartoon or Marvel comic), preferring to remain vague on the matter by having it exist within its own unique G1 continuity that borrows elements from both instead of favoring one over the other.xyl360 wrote:And of course, as a G1 fan, I LOVED all the references to G1 and the fact that the writers chose to make it take place in the G1 continuity, some 3 centuries after the end of the Great War.
From TFWiki.net's "Beast Wars coninuity" page:Beast Wars storylines are, in general, a subsection of the Generation 1 continuity family. But the Beast Wars cartoon does not adhere to any particular version of Generation 1 continuity that has been seen; instead it borrows facets from many and composites them into a sort of vague "mythology" that forms the Beast Wars characters' past.Though the entire show takes place millions of years ago, the characters originated from a point 300 years into the future of Generation 1. Which Generation 1 is never made clear; the cartoon draws elements from both the original G1 comics and cartoons, and the writers stated that in the context of the cartoon, the events of the various Generation 1 stories should be regarded as something akin to Arthurian legend, rather than an exact history.
Ah, that's right, don't know why I was thinking Dreamwave.Sabrblade wrote:Well, they obviously would have had to know SOME details of the BW cartoon and its event in order to make BM match up with it. I didn't mean that they were completely in the dark of the BW cartoon, just that they may not have been aware of some of the more subtle specifics like the political state the BW cartoon hinted at.xyl360 wrote:Yes, I'm quite aware of what the interviews on the DVD's say, but they're lying, at least partially. There's way too much that took place in Beast Wars that they got precisely right that they could not have guessed at were they really not at all familiar with Beast Wars, including the flashbacks to the events at the end of Beast Wars where Megatron is imprisoned on the hull of the Autobot shuttle. That's neither here nor there though, and I do understand what you're saying and I understand why they did it the way they did (they also didn't want to confuse kids by introducing 3 factions, i.e. Maximals, Vehicons AND Predacons, something they mention in those same interviews, though they did slip up at least once, where Rattrap and Cheetor are dealing with Tankor (Rhinox) and one of them says something like "Imagine if he were a Predacon").3H, not Dreamwave.xyl360 wrote:Yes, I've read it. I really liked the Dreamwave Botcon Beast Wars comics, though there are elements I despise (like all of the G1 'survivors' like the Wreckers etc.), though I know that was just good ol' G1 fanwank.
Right, him being God is fine, but again, that does not mean that he is Cybertron. He could have simply been the first Cybertronian for all we know. It doesn't give us enough to go on.Sabrblade wrote:That's another one of the elements taken from the comic instead of the cartoon and makes BW its own unique continity instead of being one that takes the G1 cartoon as gospel.xyl360 wrote:I also didn't particularly like the references to Primus, since the only references in the G1 shows to him (including Beast Wars/Beast Machines) is in name alone and not once is he referenced as 'being Cybertron' so it was always assumed that he was some great leader from the past or a messiah-type figure to the Cybertronians.
However, an instance in which Primus is hinted at being the Cybertronian god is in the "Nemesis" two-parter, in which the Covenant of Primus is treated as an analogy to the Bible, in which the Covenant is to Primus as the Bible is to God.
Cool, no I hadn't checked that out. Makes a lot of sense though .Sabrblade wrote:Ever read the awesome that is "Singularity Ablyss"? In that story, which is set during the BM episode "Spark of Darkness", Megatron, while in a state of limbo until his spakr finally finds a new host body in the Diagnostic Drone he gets stuck in, is guided through the Allspark by Rhinox acting as a spirit guide for him, and everything Rhinox show him he misinterprets into him thinking he's the most important being of all (like, when he's shown that every spark pulses to the same cosmic rhythm, showing that all sparks are equal, he misinterprets this as thinking all sparks pulse to his own rhythm). From this, he takes it upon himself to untie all the sparks into his own very being. Rather than let himself become aprt of the collective, he set out to make himself become the collective.xyl360 wrote:This does spark another thought I've often had though, which I wrote about in a fanfic concept. The Autobots, ever since the G1 movie, always say "Til' all are one!". In reality, if taken literally, then that was precisely what Megatron was trying to do, unite all of the sparks on Cybertron and make them 'ONE' as in one single entity. In fact, to quote Beast Machines Megatron: "...Uniting every spark on Cybertron into one perfect being: ME!", though that obviously was likely not the writers' intent at any point in the series, but food for philosophical thought nonetheless.
Yep, I think it's kinda hard to reconcile the '2 Matrices' in these continuities. The Matrix is the afterlife "where all are one", yet it's never made clear whether it is the same Matrix as the Matrix of Leadership. I always assumed that somehow it was (i.e. the 'Spark of Sparks' where all sparks go when their bots go offline).Sabrblade wrote:...I don't remember him wanting that Matrix. He was after the Allspark, the afterlife dimension of all sparks, which is also known as the "Matrix". The physical talisman of G1 was a window to this place, but that'd do Megatron little good if he's got access to the Oracle.xyl360 wrote:In addition, I've had the idea that if Megatron had succeeded, but wanted to consume the Matrix itself and chose an opportune moment in history from which to retrieve it (i.e. following the death of Optimus Prime when it was passed to their new leader), he could have (assuming he has taken Cybertron as his new body a-la Unicron in the G1 series, Ghost in the Machine I believe?) used transwarp cells to transport himself, this planet-sized Transformer who now consumes matter the same way his super-spark consumes the sparks (souls) of Cybertronians in Beast Machines, back to the year 2005 when Optimus died in order to attempt to intercept the Matrix and consume the TF's and/or the Matrix (though admittedly he did ask Megatron/Galvatron to destroy it as I recall). Even the name would fit given 'Uni' means 'one' (i.e. Unicron) and that he was intent on consuming all life in the universe, including every spark on Cybertron.
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