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Rodimus Prime wrote:You seem to agree with the concept of black lives matter
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
Burn wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:You seem to agree with the concept of black lives matter
To me, yeah, all lives matter. There's a reason that Bill & Ted quote is part of the rules, because it's what I try to believe in, "Be excellent to each other". But some people need a bit more help than others.
Unfortunately like pretty much every movement, it gets twisted around and the real message is lost.
My point exactly. My recidivism comes from the fact that when I try to point that out, I get bundled in with the ignorant segments who view equality as somehow a threat to their pride or well-being, simply because they're insecure.Burn wrote:Unfortunately like pretty much every movement, it gets twisted around and the real message is lost.
Z3ROhour wrote:WRONG IS WRONG
BLACK LIVES MATTER
JUSTCAS MUCH AS MINE
I CAN'T BREATHE
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.
One of the symptoms of a corrupt government on all levels. Where the wrath of these marginalized segments of society should be focused.If they get together to talk about it among themselves, and, say, petition their legislators about specific issues, they get form letters blowing them off.
Such as?If they try to mobilize to vote people out of office, they have to navigate ridiculous, petty 'anti voter fraud' measures designed to target their communities.
Another symptom of corrupt government that should be addressed.If they get people to the polls, gerrymandered districts minimize their communities' impacts on the election.
It's a personal choice they're all entitled to. Doesn't mean everyone has to approve of it as a method of protest. And just because one doesn't, it doesn't mean that person doesn't agree with the message. Only the method of delivery of that message.If they symbolically express their frustration by opting out of trivial niceties (e.g., not standing for the National Anthem), they're lazy.
Same as above.If they symbolically express their frustration by performing a different action (e.g., kneeling before the flag), they hate America and its armed forces.
Some might, yes. But I think the majority of drivers rage about their vehicles getting damaged and even destroyed, simply because they happen to be in the vicinity.If they take to the streets to march, people rage about the inconvenience of driving around them.
In most places, that's law enforcement policy, approved by the local or state government. You disapprove? Have the policy changed.If they go downtown to protest, people get nervous and the cops blockade the streets.
Goes both ways.If the cops attack them, they're accused of attacking the cops.
That's the thing about covering their faces to prevent identity. Their covered faces become their identity, and if one member of this so-called "movement" does something destructive to another person, accountability can be placed on all members through this shared identity.If they participate in an unorganized movement (e.g., Antifa) they're responsible for everything *anyone* in the leaderless mob does.
The closest they got to a leader like that was colin kapernik, and he didn't die, just sold them out.If they find a charismatic leader to speak for them, he ends up dead.
Yes, destroying your own community and it's economic structure is the only option they had. Please. As I said above, and in previous posts: this systemic discrimination is exactly that. Systemic. Therefore, these attacks need to be directed toward the system, set up long ago by the people who constructed the socio-economic structure of this country, which was continued by subsequent generations. In short, the federal and state governments. Not other innocent people who are part of this structure just like the oppressed segments are. They want to loot and burn things to get their points across? Do it against police stations, courthouses, and prisons. Not neighborhood mom and pop stores that rely on them for business and on which they rely for supplies in return. Destruction and stealing in their own neighborhoods is inexcusable, unintelligent and ineffective. They do damage to themselves more than anyone else.Even disregarding the antiBLM individuals sabotaging the movement by disrupting the protests, looting and burning isn't a form of protest, it's what happens when you tell a large cross-section of the populace that they need to sit down and shut up about what's being done to them, and remove all options for doing otherwise.
BeastProwl wrote:I thought making political posts was against the rules. Guess that doesnt matter when youre the site owner though, huh?
Burn wrote:ShadowKatt wrote:I don't disagree with Ryan's position in all of this, only what it's done to the community here. The response should never have been this toxic or straight up hateful, in either direction. Can't be undone now though.
This thread has, to simplify it, has gone the exact same way every other political thread has gone.
One view is presented, then an opposing view is presented, and so it goes back and forth.
Rodimus Prime wrote:Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.
Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.
Because unfortunately the concept is no longer by itself. If only it were. I think we ALL agree that black lives matter. But now there are so many ideas and actipns attached to it, some in this thread felt the need to qualify them, and that's where the debate (because so far that's what this is, no matter how heated it got) started. Maybe Ryan made the opening post and he expected everyone to just agree down the line, which is what would/should have happened if he had just asked "do black lives matter to you?" Which is really what he did ask in an elaborate way. But again, this phrase has become an organic rallying cry for the oppressed subjects of systemic discrimination, and as all things organic, it grew. To different people, some parts remained pure, some didn't. And again, that's where the debate comes in.william-james88 wrote:Burn wrote:ShadowKatt wrote:I don't disagree with Ryan's position in all of this, only what it's done to the community here. The response should never have been this toxic or straight up hateful, in either direction. Can't be undone now though.
This thread has, to simplify it, has gone the exact same way every other political thread has gone.
One view is presented, then an opposing view is presented, and so it goes back and forth.
Honestly, I find that so weird. Why would anyone oppose someone stating that we should remember to care for black people and that their lives matter? If people have to start debating whether or not the lives of black people matter, then I think that's reason enough to remind them.
Seibertron wrote:BeastProwl wrote:I thought making political posts was against the rules. Guess that doesnt matter when youre the site owner though, huh?
That is correct.
No. Just no.Dr. Caelus wrote:I don't have the time to get in a back-and-forth with people I know won't change their minds, but this absolutely needs to be addressed:Rodimus Prime wrote:Dr. Caelus wrote:If they speak to their friends, their friends (on places like this website) tend to tell them it's not the time/place for it, and that they should go somewhere else to talk about it.
Is this based on personal experience? Because it can't (or shouldn't) be a generalization. It doesn't happen everywhere. I know this for a fact, because I have black people around me in both a professional and social setting, and I have never refused to speak to them about these things, not out of discomfort or anything else. And any time a discussion took place, I learned something from it.
Hypocrisy.
I'm not black, but I've been alienated, ostracized, or censured enough times for speaking up about these issues and others, to be extraordinarily frustrated, and that's with the benefit of white privilege shielding me from rebukes and winning me credibility with other white people.
But because you're certain you are not guilty of driving people away, because you anecdotally have an exception to the rule, you are prepared to say, 'No, you're generalizing, so this doesn't count,' as if its only racism if 100% of white people are dicks to people of color.
You say the whole argument is null because you've seen exceptions, and object to generalizations. So, how does that fit with your, 'protesters don't deserve our respect because they're vandals, arsonists, and looters' attitude?
I went to a Black Lives Matter protest on Tuesday. No fires, no smashed windows, no injuries. Someone had heat stroke, and there were some creepy white guys watching the protest with binoculars, which seemed ominous, but the protest was 100% peaceful.
So, by your own logic, if some (most) BLM protests do not become destructive, then any 'generalizations' to the contrary must surely be rebuked, and anyone derailing constructive discussion by incessantly returning the topic to the actions of people that BLM has no control over should likely be seen as contributing to the defense of a racist system.
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