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chuckdawg1999 wrote:I'm confused, were double Pretenders supposed to be different from the Pretenders who had shells that could transform and combine with the inner robot?

As the name implies, Double Pretenders were supposed to have not one, but two robots inside the Shell. We don't really know what the robots themselves were supposed to do because we have no prototypes or even design sheets for them: only the Shell seems to have made to the hard copy stage.

That's the reason why "Oilmaster" is two figures instead of one, three if you count the Shell. In fact, the main conscience is split among the three according to bio, akin to G1 Optimus Prime's Marvel bio.

Would be great if they put the shell out in the alternate red colors as a different character on the side. I'm less excited about the notion of shoe-horning it into being a beast wars character.

That said, I REALLY hope they also do the spider. Those would look great together as a kind-of set. It's also really wild and out-there looking. I'm all about getting those kind of figures, especially now. Looking back and snagging those crazy G2 and UK figures is fun.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Think TFCC is finding it harder each year to compete with Third party companies.

I think they're having a hard time even competing with Hasbro as Generations rolls on. Way back when this whole thing started, Hasbro wasn't doing G1 updates, so FunPub had a fairly clear playing field. Now that market is getting filled by Generations.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Think, Had the mecha gorilla pretender shell been fully articulated it would have been worth buying. With almost no articulation, it's a easy pass.

Think this is the way PWTT needed to design their pretender toys. With just creating fully articulated pretender shells. then using HasTak Legends class toys to fit inside the shells.

Yeah, that's what kills this for me, too. I actually LIKE the concept of Pretenders, it's just the execution that's a huge let-down. I had hoped that when Hasbro eventually revisited the concept (as they've been working their way through the old gimmicks in the Generations line), we would get a Pretender shell with some actual articulation, not yet another bulky, hollow brick that just stands there, looking the opposite of intimidating.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Think TFCC is finding it harder each year to compete with Third party companies.

I think they're having a hard time even competing with Hasbro as Generations rolls on. Way back when this whole thing started, Hasbro wasn't doing G1 updates, so FunPub had a fairly clear playing field. Now that market is getting filled by Generations.

Originally had the words, And HasTak, near the end of the sentence. but edited them out.

Also agree and Think all of these repurposed CHUG and CW toys by HasTak. makes it harder for TFCC to try to compete and convince fans to buy their versions. Especially when HasTak does more extensive repurposed toys like 30th Sandstorm and the 2015 Generations Combiners Wars toys.

While the notion of getting a modern, articulated shell is appealing... I don't think it would strike the same nostalgic nerve that this one does. While I guess I welcome some simple articulation, what they achieved fits in AMAZINGLY well with the old vintage pretenders... much the same way last year's headmaster does. It blurs the line between the new toys and G1, which gets a lot of points with me.

It's a home run with me. I also like the execution of Swerve's mold.

Cripes. I hope they do a Spooky version for a repaint or SG version. I'd buy them all a round of drinks. Sheesh. That would be so, very amazing.

3H and OTFCC sold Botcon toys for more than Half of what TFCC is charging.

Think, The TFCC toys should cost less than the 3H and OTFCC toys as the TFCC toys make more toys at the factories.

It's a losing war for TFCC as long as they continue to sell repaints with maybe new heads. for Four to Five times more than the Hasbro American retail toys versions.

For the TFCC same price and toy class. Third parties at least give buyers a brand new toy. This is why TFCC also can't compete with Third party companies.

thinking about comparing them with 3P... the one thing they DO have over 3P is that if they make a new character, it is canon — and much more accepted. If a 3P does a new transformer character, it's very hard for them to gain momentum and acceptance for those toys. They basically come across as fan-characters or another line altogether.

But I do think it's comparing apples and oranges as for their products. Only thing that puts them in the same arena is that we die-hard fans generally spend money on both of them. I do think a number of people may skip one or the other based on a good year of 3P toys or a solid Botcon set.

While it doesn't do anything for me, the latest reveal is actually pretty neat for all the reasons Seibs already stated. It has a large, 100% new mould as the shell and homages an unused concept from decades ago. That's actually pretty neat and goes above and beyond anything they've done before. It's not for me, but it's a really nice effort on Fun Pub's part.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Think TFCC is finding it harder each year to compete with Third party companies.

I think they're having a hard time even competing with Hasbro as Generations rolls on. Way back when this whole thing started, Hasbro wasn't doing G1 updates, so FunPub had a fairly clear playing field. Now that market is getting filled by Generations.

Originally had the words, And HasTak, near the end of the sentence. but edited them out.

Also agree and Think all of these repurposed CHUG and CW toys by HasTak. makes it harder for TFCC to try to compete and convince fans to buy their versions. Especially when HasTak does more extensive repurposed toys like 30th Sandstorm and the 2015 Generations Combiners Wars toys.

To say nothing of being able to crank out a whole new mold when they want to do a character, Rattrap for example.

It makes me wonder, if they can do this, could they get access to molds that Hasbro and TT currently aren't using, and start an encore line of their own? I wouldn't care at all if I had to join the club again to get a Raiden or Liokaiser.

Back on the subject of Oilmaster:

Construct-Bots weapons outta nowhere...

I think it's important to note that this is a new mold BASED on that unmade character. There was never a factory mold made for that mocked-up gorilla.

I'm sure if Takara or Hasbro located any old molds like that, they'd use it for an Asia exclusive reissue... which — as you said — would be great for a club exclusive.

They did the same for the Seacons.

But I'd LOVE it if they could both create new character molds like this... and hunt for missing molds from the 80s... and even re-create molds from toys (as they did from Soundwave, I hear.) Maybe with renewed excitement for certain characters (because of current show like RID2015 which is dredging up a lot of old characters like Sharkticons, etc.) they can revisit the notion.

I think what everyone is forgetting is when Botcon started Transformers Toys and fiction were hard to come by, There was only beast wars/Machines, no comics to speak of so it made botcon very special because it added fiction to a starving fandom, we are now spoilt for choice due to the movies, 3rd party, and other associated media. If these sets came out years ago people would be losing their minds. aprriciate it for what it is, I for one love oilmaster this is perfect for what I look for in a exclusive. Thanks I just needed to get that off my chest.

gothsaurus wrote:I think it's important to note that this is a new mold BASED on that unmade character. There was never a factory mold made for that mocked-up gorilla.

I'm sure if Takara or Hasbro located any old molds like that, they'd use it for an Asia exclusive reissue... which - as you said - would be great for a club exclusive.

They did the same for the Seacons.

But I'd LOVE it if they could both create new character molds like this... and hunt for missing molds from the 80s... and even re-create molds from toys (as they did from Soundwave, I hear.) Maybe with renewed excitement for certain characters (because of current show like RID2015 which is dredging up a lot of old characters like Sharkticons, etc.) they can revisit the notion.

I know this is a new mold based on the double pretender, I just brought up the idea of using existing molds because that certainly must be cheaper to do than creating new molds like this one, and I'm not so sure TT has any more interest in the encore line since it's been stalled out since Fortress Maximus. Hasbro doesn't seem to have a lot of interest in the Japan only characters, it was the club that gave us Metalhawk in some form. Again, only spitballing... it would be an interesting way for the club to go in the future and would probably bring in many more dollars than some of the weirder things lately, like the rest of this set.

Yeah, I'd love to get a Cyclonus retool into that Metalhawk.

Hopefully Botcon can kinda serve as a test market. Let them drum up excitement for headmasters, target masters, pretenders... then they can put out a nice full line of cool, updated toys.

BUT not before they do a combo, amazing full GI Joe crossover line. ;-D

gothsaurus wrote:Yeah, I'd love to get a Cyclonus retool into that Metalhawk.

Hopefully Botcon can kinda serve as a test market. Let them drum up excitement for headmasters, target masters, pretenders... then they can put out a nice full line of cool, updated toys.

BUT not before they do a combo, amazing full GI Joe crossover line. ;-D

Absolutely. Before I saw that Old Snake, I was going to throw a hat on a Data Viper

Every year Fun Pub does basically the same thing for BotCon, take a bunch of cool molds and repaint them into new and pre-existing characters, and every year there's a small group of people who complain about the current set being the worst set ever like they've never heard of BotCon before. It's actually pretty amusing, it happens like clockwork.

People are also complaining about how incohesive and random this set is. Well then, this set wasn't made for you, otherwise you'd already be well aware of Fun Pubs ongoing storyline and know that this is entirely the point of the set. The figures are supposed to represent characters from different Transformers universes brought together for a common goal. You've got G1, movie, Beast Wars, Shattered Glass, and this unused prototype all forced into one team. If that doesn't excite you then you're not the target buyer.

I'm very excited about Oil Master, not just because it revives an unfinished character and concept, but also because for the first time ever Fun Pub is giving us an entirely new figure that we've never seen before (paired with a repainted Swerve). This is huge news and really throws the doors wide open for what we might see in the future. Nightbird perhaps? Maybe a Shattered Glass Pretender Dirge?

I do think it's a little funny that they went with Hasbro's unused concept rather than one of their many own.

Emerje

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Thinking TFCC has become desperate enough to use a new mold for a Botcon toy. Probably because it's becoming harder to convince fans to spend over $70 for each Botcon toy. that's just a repaint with maybe a new head.

Think TFCC is finding it harder each year to compete with Third party companies.

I don't think Funpub has to try at all to convince fans to buy their exclusives. They went venemous last year over the headmaster Scorponok and will probably go a*p*e*s*h*i*t this year for Oilmaster. Using a new mold to revive an old abandon Transformers concept isn't desperation, it's genius thinking on their part. Also, I don't think they are trying to compete with 3rd parties at all. Probably not even on their radar.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Would not be the least bit surprised to see this 2015 Botcon Gorilla shell box set toy. get repurposed as a Botcon 2015 add on toy. Thinking TFCC will do a Beast Wars Optimus Primal with a inner robot being a legends class CHUG G1 Optimus Prime toy. to spoof the Trukk not monkey fan joke.

THIS. TFCC, please make this. I need an Optimus that is both Trukk and Munky.

Not sure how to feel about this one. The ape looks OK. But I remember when the 'Pretenders' first came out. It was late 1988/89-ish. And it was just a few months beforehand that a line of stuffed toys called the "Purr-tenders" had come out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP-NCWAL1VU

The gimmick was they were stuffed cats that had costume pieces letting them 'disguise' as other kinds of animals. My brothers and I couldn't help noting the Transformers' Pretenders similarity and came up with our own commercials. "We're a bunch of Transformers who'll do anything to actually be SOLD - even dress up like OTHER toys!"

This was at a dark time in Transformer history when sales were going down and Hasbro was resorting to all kinds of gimmicks to boost sales. Pretenders, Headmasters, Micromasters, etc. But the Transformations weren't as slick as the original G1 figures, and they just didn't look as good.

Emerje wrote:People are also complaining about how incohesive and random this set is. Well then, this set wasn't made for you, otherwise you'd already be well aware of Fun Pubs ongoing storyline and know that this is entirely the point of the set. The figures are supposed to represent characters from different Transformers universes brought together for a common goal. You've got G1, movie, Beast Wars, Shattered Glass, and this unused prototype all forced into one team. If that doesn't excite you then you're not the target buyer.

I actually enjoy most of their storylines. Not all are made of win, but I still read them anyway. The problem is that I don't love the characters until AFTER I read the stories. If you want me to buy the hell out of your stuff, let me read the comic early. I don't want to invest this much money in a bunch of characters that I may end up hating.

Shockwave7 wrote:Not sure how to feel about this one. The ape looks OK. But I remember when the 'Pretenders' first came out. It was late 1988/89-ish. And it was just a few months beforehand that a line of stuffed toys called the "Purr-tenders" had come out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP-NCWAL1VU

The gimmick was they were stuffed cats that had costume pieces letting them 'disguise' as other kinds of animals. My brothers and I couldn't help noting the Transformers' Pretenders similarity and came up with our own commercials. "We're a bunch of Transformers who'll do anything to actually be SOLD - even dress up like OTHER toys!"

This was at a dark time in Transformer history when sales were going down and Hasbro was resorting to all kinds of gimmicks to boost sales. Pretenders, Headmasters, Micromasters, etc. But the Transformations weren't as slick as the original G1 figures, and they just didn't look as good.

If anything, I'd consider the first wave of Headmasters (1987) the high water mark for the G1 line. That wave had the last large size TFs, the headmasters and targetmasters were very well done, and that was the only point in the G1 line where a monster like Fortress Maximus was feasible. True, it did fall after that, but in '87, TFs were still everywhere. I still remember the aisles of Children's Palace and Toys r Us choked with Transformers and Joes floor to ceiling.

Desslok2201 wrote:If anything, I'd consider the first wave of Headmasters (1987) the high water mark for the G1 line. That wave had the last large size TFs, the headmasters and targetmasters were very well done, and that was the only point in the G1 line where a monster like Fortress Maximus was feasible. True, it did fall after that, but in '87, TFs were still everywhere. I still remember the aisles of Children's Palace and Toys r Us choked with Transformers and Joes floor to ceiling.

I agree they were everywhere and very popular. But sales were on the wane by then, and figure quality seemed to be as well. I had the "Apeface" headmaster, and while the jet looked cool and the robot was passable, the 'ape' was horrible. Then again, it was a triple changer, and they didn't seem able to 'do' those very well back then.

Shockwave7 wrote:

Desslok2201 wrote:If anything, I'd consider the first wave of Headmasters (1987) the high water mark for the G1 line. That wave had the last large size TFs, the headmasters and targetmasters were very well done, and that was the only point in the G1 line where a monster like Fortress Maximus was feasible. True, it did fall after that, but in '87, TFs were still everywhere. I still remember the aisles of Children's Palace and Toys r Us choked with Transformers and Joes floor to ceiling.

I agree they were everywhere and very popular. But sales were on the wane by then, and figure quality seemed to be as well. I had the "Apeface" headmaster, and while the jet looked cool and the robot was passable, the 'ape' was horrible. Then again, it was a triple changer, and they didn't seem able to 'do' those very well back then.

True, the Horrorcons' 3rd modes were not good, but look at Spasma, Apeface's head. He's a good example of what I mean. He had articulated arms, hips, even knees. Headmaster Jrs in '88 only had the hip joint and were half the size. I agree with your point that they did go downhill, but as a gimmick, I think the first of the headmasters were a good thing