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I respect that you like this series a lot, but 5/5? Where to begin? The following response contains SPOILERS, so please do not go any further if you have not seen Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam which I will give 3/5, and this is why...
I guess I'll start with the most obvious issue, blatant hypocrisy. The Titans are evil. That is established right at the beginning with three events. First, Kamille gets TLS beat out of him before being thrown into a holding cell for being a jerk towards an officer. Granted he deserved it, but as we were about to learn, "this is how the Titans do things." What do I mean? After Jarid carelessly crashes a Mk II causing lots of damage and casualties (the second event), Bright shows up to express his displeasure at testing the new Gundams in the residential area of the colony. And he has TLS beat out of him forcing him to submit. But later, when Kamille runs his mouth aboard the Argama and acts insubordinate, Bright himself "corrects" him. that's right, beating TLS out of someone has gone from how "the Titans do things" to "military correction." Amuro got the brig, Kamille gets a beat down. Way to distinguish good guys from bad.
That's not the biggest problem. First we have to discuss the annoyingly weak Reccoa, the insubordinate Katz, the way everyone reacts to them, and Shinta and Qum, the war orphans Char brings aboard the Argama.
First, I'll discuss Reccoa. She's beyond weak. She becomes a turncoat because there are no strong men aboard the Argama who can compete with Scirocco. Having become smitten by the only man to treat her "both as a soldier and as a woman" whatever that means, Reccoa goes on to commit war crimes and yet Kamille cannot bring himself in several encounters to blow her out of her misery, even though she's an irredeemable murderer. Apparently nobody can do what needs to be done until Emma faces her in a final encounter and calls her out on her idiocy. I don't mind that the encounter cost Emma her life, but what happens after that I'll get to in a bit.
On to Katz, who not once, but twice stole the G-Defenser and received no punishment for his actions. The first time he wanted to assassinate Sciracco and caused a bunch of problems. Yet, because he accidentally saved Kamille on one of his outings he never receives any "correction" nor is he thrown in the brig where he belongs. I mean, he stole the G-Defenser! It's an armor upgrade for the Mk II. What if Emma needed it in battle while he was out gallivanting? I could understand if he had taken the Methuss, but taking the G-Defenser was beyond reckless. And nobody pointed this out! Bright simply allowed him to launch so he would learn something. Really? He became so annoying I actually cheered when he died.
Yet how can I blast Katz without mentioning Shinta and Qum. They were meant to replace the original war orphans, of whom Katz was one on White Base. However, unlike Katz and his siblings on White Base, Shinta and Qum only cause problems, including enabling Katz to do things that should have gotten him killed. While they allowed Fa to show her motherly instincts, these kids were an annoying distraction whom Bright simply shrugs off when they sit on his lap during battle on the bridge.
And now the biggest problem, the secret powers of the Zeta Gundam. Yes, the Zeta Gundam apparently can absorb the souls of the dead and use their energy to make itself invulnerable to all forms of attack. Out of nowhere it simply glows red and cannot be destroyed. The mortally wounded Emma explains this power to Kamille as she dies in his arms, begging him to use her soul to win the day. Give me a break.
Animaster, I know you have issues with Seed, but at least when the Freedom glowed blue in its final battle with the Providence it was symbolic and had no physical effect on the mobile suite. The Freedom still had a leg blown off, and then its right arm, all while glowing blue. But the Zeta is suddenly invincible.
That is the biggest disappointment of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, because unlike Amuro, who becomes a better pilot, pushes his Gundam beyond its abilities, and still ends up getting it severely damaged in the final battle, Kamille barely improves as a pilot, needs the Zeta to survive further battles in the war, and ends up with super powers that cause his mind to shatter in a hallow victory.
Oh, and the most memorable moments, and most enjoyable story arc of the series, revolve around Amuro's return to action to support Char and Kamille and get them back into space. I expected Kamille to learn from Amuro and become a better person and pilot. He becomes a better person, but it's debatable if his piloting skills improve. He never has that expected moment like Amuro when his Newtype abilities kick in and he suddenly operates his gundam at a higher level than any other pilot on the battlefield, and this letdown is what ultimately downgrades this series from outstanding to simply good.
ZeroWolf wrote:Polite answer: yes.
I love zeta gundam it's not perfect butime I would give it a 4.5/5 because kamille gets on my nerves after a while. In terms of a sequel series, it's perfect as it allows new characters their time in the spotlight, the older characters return but stay largely in the background, apart from char but Tomino had plans for him and this was a step to that point.
Back to original point however, you have the right to an opinion but so is everyone else plus without looking at the other guys response there may have been a reason he brought up the seed/destiny thing since Destiny rips chunks out of zeta (and Seed and I'm talking scenarios here not returning characters).
flyjunior151 week ago
someone who has avatar trash Gundam SEED / Destiny has no right to criticize anything ... your arguments are invalid compared to this video and your "critical"
Bradley97 S1 week ago
+flyjunior15 Wow. I understand that you love this series, but I don't, and I gave my reasons. 3/5 stars is still a passing grade. If you want to argue my points, please go right ahead, I'd love to read why you disagree with them. But to dismiss my opinions because of an image I chose as my avatar is juvenile. I simply happen to like that image, so I use it. Would you dismiss my thoughts so easily if my avatar was of 00 Gundam instead? That's my right, just like your choice of avatar is your right. It's also my right to disagree with the review above and list my reasons. It's your right to disagree with me, and of course to dislike me for no other reason than because you don't like my avatar. But know that I share no animosity towards you.
flyjunior151 week ago (edited)
+Bradley97 S I'm sorry, I'm not interested responds extensive rant of a fan of seed, as serious as the number one thousand discussion you have with those people who despise and hate, so I do not care what you say. All your arguments are childish and inferior nature compared with this video. that simple.
Bradley97 S1 week ago
+flyjunior15 For the record, I enjoy all Gundam series on their own merits. To me there is no one version that is superior to the rest as each tells its own story in its own way. Whether I like one story over another is a matter of personal opinion. My post is not a rant, rather an objective commentary on my observations of the series in respectful disagreement with Animaster.
I enjoyed Mobile Suit Gundam and personally give it 4/5 stars only because it was cut short and had to skip a proper explanation of what a Newtype is. I was looking forward to Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam and as my post explains, I was disappointed because of very real and unignorable flaws in the series. You choose to call my arguments childish, but others have pointed out the same issues in this very comments section, so I am not alone in my observations. Does that mean everyone who agrees with me is childish? It seems you view my 3/5 star rating as an attack on the UC franchise. If I recall correctly, Animaster does not give ZZ Gundam a high rating, so does that make him a hater as well?
As I said above, I would be happy to read why you disagree with the issues I have with Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. Rather than dismiss my post with your specious argument above I challenge you to prove me wrong point by point instead of dismissing me with your own childish rant. I have stated my case clearly. I have singled out problems with the plot, problems with the characters, and problems with a deus ex machina that greatly hurt what could have been an outstanding sequel to Mobile Suit Gundam. In fact, I will go one step further: The flaws in Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam almost do to its own universe what the flaws in Mobile Suite Gundam Seed Destiny the Seed universe. I find both disappointing but for very different reasons.
In any case, now my avatar is 00 Gundam, so is my rant now that of a childish 00 fan? By the way, you never finished your first post. It ends abruptly in the middle of a sentence.
* Not obligate anyone to think like me, but to show by my style a review, if you do not like how I do're free stuff go and close the screen video anytime since any comment that is to defend with arguments will well received, but if that person only comes as burned little boy because they insulted his series of animated cartoons, will be ignored me, and if you try to become the "psychologist" in the internet about my personal life, your comments will be deleted, and more if that person has nothing better how to defend something he likes to attack the user if his HATE susudicho beyond all human limits internet, and feel like REVENGE off the screen of your PC.
will be blocked and deleted those comments, I said.
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ZeroWolf wrote:Fenir, it was Sunrise who wanted to keep amuro and chars fate ambiguous, Tomino wanted them dead. This is why he wrote Chars Counterattack: Beltorchicka's Children (my spelling socks but I blame Tomino for giving Amuros gf from Zeta a ridiculous name). It leaves nothing to imagine about amuro and chars final fate as he spells it out pretty well. It also gave us the hi-nu gundam and the nightingale (a souped up sazabi)
Ah I have missed talking about gundam.
Also Fenir is that lunamaria in your avatar picture
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
ZeroWolf wrote:Fenir I think the animation is Canon but it's really up to whatever you want as they don't appear again in any fiction. ..apart from a couple of A.I. systems based on them in the F90 manga
ZeroWolf wrote:Hmm well I would say he belongs to the "Do as I say not as I do" school of thought. It also appears I got the wrong end of the stick in my first reply, so with the new information, let's do a take two.
Answer: you're not crazy for sharing your opinion as long as you're prepared to defend it and listen to the other side if they give a good argument that makes you see things in a different light. The other poster didn't do that and wrote you off as a lira fan boy and may of assumed you were there to just say "SEED TEH BEST" thus wrote you off. The fact you answered him back didn't bother him as you were just another seed fanboy to him assuming that your message wasn't lost in translation.
In short, forget about him and just keep to posting your opinion. People like that are a dime a dozen but there's also people who will more then gladly take the time to debate your stance and keep everything civil
fenrir72 wrote:The original universe of A.Ray/Aznable is imho kind of like G1. I put it loosely on the quality of the latter as Gundam is one very complicated heartwrenching look into how totally pointless war is. This is the foundation. All the other incarnations are simply retelling the same plot albeit using new presentation techniques.
Artwise, I also dig the artstyle of SEED (Lunamaria especially). But the original still stands the test of time. Kind of like the Disney artsyle of the 1950s Cinderella/ Peter Pan when applied using modern CGI techniques makes it's beauty shine more.
Shadowman wrote:On the one hand, Destiny was a legitimately bad series, (As opposed to, say, Wing, which is of the illegitimate "Too many people like it therefore it is bad" variety) with too much emphasis on trying to remind people of things they already saw. (Constant use of flashbacks, and three clipshows in a 50 episode series; they might have been marketing the show to goldfish) Not to mention Kira being shoehorned back into the Hero role for no reason, swinging the series from "Maybe ZAFT isn't so bad..." to "They're exactly as bad as they were in the last series."
And it's not like Shinn was a great protagonist either, having possibly the most backwards motivation in all of Gundam; his sister is killed in the crossfire of an MS battle, he sees the Freedom and immediately pins the blame on it...and then goes on to become a Mobile Suit pilot, the exact profession that got his sister killed.
Though maybe it's just because I haven't watched Destiny since I was a kid.
That aside, there's the other hand I meant to talk about earlier; unless the SEED series is specifically tainting your view of the Universal Century, then it's completely irrelevant to your opinions of Zeta Gundam.
tl;dr version, Destiny sucks, but the guy who pulled a "You like something I hate, your argument is invalid" BS sucks more.
Bradimus wrote:fenrir72 wrote:The original universe of A.Ray/Aznable is imho kind of like G1. I put it loosely on the quality of the latter as Gundam is one very complicated heartwrenching look into how totally pointless war is. This is the foundation. All the other incarnations are simply retelling the same plot albeit using new presentation techniques.
Artwise, I also dig the artstyle of SEED (Lunamaria especially). But the original still stands the test of time. Kind of like the Disney artsyle of the 1950s Cinderella/ Peter Pan when applied using modern CGI techniques makes it's beauty shine more.
I agree with your assessment. And Seed is basically an almost direct retelling of the original story. Similar to the original, Seed also fails to explain "Seed Theory" even with Erica Simmons voicing over a clip show that was supposed to do just that. However, I thought the genetic engineering concept was brilliant, as Natural vs. Coordinator can be applied to modern day discriminatory situations and the violence that unfortunately breaks out because of them. But I don't think I can judge one based on the other as there would be no alternate Gundam series without the original, and all of the series I have seen are phenomenal at exploring the consequences of war.
The problem about being like G1 is that unfortunately it seems the fan base is splintered in a similar manner, with some UC purists hating on just about everything and everyone else, and some Seed fans doing the same to UC, etc. Why can't we all just get along?
fenrir72 wrote:Another thing failed to mention or cleared in SEED is the winged whale. WTF was that for?
fenrir72 wrote:And Lunamaria is the only saving grace in Destiny aside from reintroducing Kira and Lacus as the main protagonists
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:fenrir72 wrote:Another thing failed to mention or cleared in SEED is the winged whale. WTF was that for?
It was a fossil the original coordinator found on a deep space mission to Jupiter. Supposedly it proved the existence of extraterrestrial life, and...somehow severely weakened the world's religions? Now that's something that needed explaining. Apparently God can't exist at the same time as space whales.fenrir72 wrote:And Lunamaria is the only saving grace in Destiny aside from reintroducing Kira and Lacus as the main protagonists
How does Kira becoming the main protagonist count as a saving grace? It was one of the biggest writing missteps in the entire show.
ZeroWolf wrote:In the manga adaption the phase shift armour protected kira from aegis then kira crawled away (yeah as if that was a better explanation) then Gundam SEED Astray came along with their explanation (Lowe gear arrived on the scene with red frame and pulled kira out of the cockpit but again phase shift armour saved the day).
As for destiny, kira took over the protagonist role because he was the most popular in Japan at the time, no other seed show characters could come close apart from Athrun but he was kkira's bff anyway. I mean I can think of the last time a show had to redo it's ending because of how much it failed (ooh look none of the good guy ms actually took a hit and every bad guy went down to easy)
Plus another thing that bothered me was how clear cut the sides became. In seed there was good guys and imbeciles on both sides...ttill the final arc where everyone became jerks.
In destiny though, zaft were shown to be the good guys and all of the earth alliance were jerks till kira comes on the scene again then everything turns again and now zaft are also jerks...SSigh, it's my belief that after this Turn-A turned up and just used it's moonlight butterfly power to turn everything to scrap so the idiots could just die out.
Oh wait I do remember another show that redid it's ending, evangelion. Though that just got remade because anno got annoyed that no one liked his Art ending so we got End of Evangelion.
ZeroWolf wrote:Turning to evangelion, I watched it for the first time and I loved it, apart from the nonsensical ending. On further re watches though I started liking it less and less. I'd much prefer watching Rahxepon.
Sunrise wanted this to be Zeta for this age but Destiny fell really far. Missing everything that made Zeta what it was, even other anime learned from it (aalthough Zeta itself jumped on board the transformation mecha bandwagon taking cues from macross)
ZeroWolf wrote:Big o let me down with its ending...i still love the series, I love the style the music but yet I feel the last few episodes let the show down massively.
I love GaoGaiGar FINAL for the ending that it was though I'm still curious as to what the planned ova could of been like.
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