The Energon Pub

What are your opinions on this? Could the world just be a simulated reality that when we go to sleep we in a sense like a forum or game go offline? There have been many examples of simulated reality's ex: .Hack// , Star Ocean Til the End of Time, FF10, etc. And if the world might just be some simulated reality what if this world created a simulated reality inside of itself? How would the original reality react to a simulated reality being created in their simulated reality?

No, this is too real to be a manufactured reality. If it were manufactured, it would be a lot more pleasant than it is. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy life, but there'd be no suffering.

ah so there goes creationism out the window, it's not good enough to have been created...

Autobot032 wrote:No, this is too real to be a manufactured reality. If it were manufactured, it would be a lot more pleasant than it is. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy life, but there'd be no suffering.

You've never seen the Matrix: Reloaded, have you? Or Megazone 23, or any of a host of other media that broach the question.

Besides, if our entire world is just a simulation, and always has been, how would we know any better? How could we even be sure if reality really works the way we think it does outside of the sim? Or, my absolute favorite: How do I know that you really exist, and that the whole thing's not being put on just for my benefit?

It could be, yes, but... Well, that's all we can really say. "It could be".


Maybe we're all actually plugged into some tank as eternally-twenty-year-old-physically-perfect bodies and being fed stimuli and data to fake a world and then, when we "die", the ones that are deemed to have made as best as they could out of their "life" are unplugged and invited to join... whoever.

More exciting than being used as a battery.



I just made that up, anyway...

NO I have seen the Matrix and there were many inconsistancese There too much to program too much to consider. There would have to be a way to generate Tactile response.

that really just is electrical stimuli generated by sensory nerve endings, it's not impossible to generate "false feeling"

and as for too much to program.....we have no idea of the capabilities of the "programmer" so are unable to quatify what is "too much"

Pretty much the same verdict-- possible, but like all things has to be substantiated before being integrated into the understood reality.

The world is a simulated reality, and if you this red pill, which is really part of a covert tracer program, you will be able to see for yourself.

AfterImage wrote:How do I know that you really exist, and that the whole thing's not being put on just for my benefit?

Trust me, it's not. It's being put on for mine.

The world came into being at 10:00pm PDT, Tuesday, July 29, 1980 AD, on the Gregorian Calendar. Everything before that, including so called "older" people, were put there as if the world had been there.

You think you have memories of the Ford administration? Eisenhower? No you don't. Never happened. You're just telling me you do. Now Reagan I'll believe. Even some of Carter. John Lennon really did exist for a few months, but not the Beatles.

Sheesh...Science-Fiction is starting to become a little too real. Wouldn't you say?

...and no. We don't live in the Matrix. I'd be doin' cool **** like walkin' on walls and stuff.

Dark Zarak wrote:The world came into being at 10:00pm PDT, Tuesday, July 29, 1980 AD, on the Gregorian Calendar. Everything before that, including so called "older" people, were put there as if the world had been there.

You think you have memories of the Ford administration? Eisenhower? No you don't. Never happened. You're just telling me you do. Now Reagan I'll believe. Even some of Carter. John Lennon really did exist for a few months, but not the Beatles.

wha-Hey! the 7:30 argument returneth!

but haven't there been like a few odd things happening like people wlaking on water, that's pretty "matrixy"

The world can't be a simulated reality for one reason. Self Image.

If this were a simulated reality, our minds have control over ourselves, even though a program has control over us. This is also a big fluke to the whole Matrix movie as well.

Morpheus stated that the reason why Neo had hair was because it's how his mind pictured himself, it's how he appears in his head.

Now, if this were a simulated reality, and we were all just ones and zeroes on a computer monitor, well our mind still dictates our actions. Our mind is still in control over ourselves, even though a computer program controls the world(I realize I already said this once.)

So many people are unhappy with the way they look, feel, jobs, everything. If this were a simulated reality you'd see instantanous changes in people who were infact unhappy with themselves and how they look, because it really is a case of mind over matter.

They cannot control and dictate what the brain does, sure in The Matrix agents took over the avatar of a person, but it wasn't taking over the mind, merely putting it on standby.

So like I said, this cannot be a simulated reality, not only for the fact that there is a spoon as I used one for dinner, but there would be more instantanous changes in people than you could shake a stick at.

true, we cannot choose who we are hugo, but what are we but the sum of our choices?

just becuase something was true in the matrix does not mean it is true for all siulated realities, something made the rules, we don't know what they are.

Tammuz wrote:...something made the rules, we don't know what they are.

Yeah we do

Marginally possible, but extremely unlikely, for all the reasons that Hugo stated.

And the Matrix movies were stupid.

SoulOfPrimus wrote:

Tammuz wrote:...something made the rules, we don't know what they are.

Yeah we do

What does a Bronze-Age Hebrew sociological code (and an outdated one at that) have to do with simulating different realities through computer programming?

EDIT:

NightBreaker wrote:Marginally possible, but extremely unlikely, for all the reasons that Hugo stated.

And the Matrix movies were stupid.

The only problem about the simulation of such a reality is that you can realize that you aren't really dead after you are 'killed' in the fake reality. If course, that can be easily fixed...

Tammuz wrote:true, we cannot choose who we are hugo, but what are we but the sum of our choices?

just becuase something was true in the matrix does not mean it is true for all siulated realities, something made the rules, we don't know what they are.

True, a line from the Matrix movie doesn't make it true for all simulated realities. But the power of the mind is massive, just the subconscious alone, in a simulated reality, dictate what happens to a person, they're appearance, they're abilities.

I agree, we are the sum of our choices, consciously we are. The subconscious however, our imagination runs wild when we dream, we often dream that we are ourselves but we don't look like ourselves, but we know that we are who we are when in a dream, it sounds like some corny new age crap, but it's how we unconsciously see ourselves, how we wish we actually were.

Now, unless there is some huge, grandmaster control system that blocks our subconscious from affecting how we look, what we're able to do, which there could be if this infact a simulated reality, there are people out there, with more willpower than we can imagine, which could, give an overnight change.

Plus, for each step technology takes, breaking that technology takes three steps. The smarter the programmers get, the smarter the hackers, which would possibly lead to the emergence(sp?) of super powered beings.

Also, once gamers realize the world is a simulated reality, well lets just say there would be a hell of a lot of Master Chiefs out there.

ah but hugo, what if the subconcious is also part of the simulated reality? your using our reality as an example of an actual reality and the matrix as an example of simulated reality, I'm leaving our reality out of it as it's the only reality i've expiereince of and thus am unable to define if this reality is simulated or not, for i have no standard for simulated reality or actual reality, i only have a this reality and any notions of simulated or actuality are of this reality and could very well be either depending on wether this reality is actual or simulated.

to simplyfy we can't know if this reality is actual or simulated becuase we are part of it, if its simulated then what we consider real is simulated and we have no actual model of a actual reality, if it's actual then we have no actual model of simulated reality

we have one reality, without other realities owe can not make a judgment of the nature of our own, it would be like asking a person with monochrome vision what colour something is

one might as well ask if this reality is Blerg or cupla?

EDIT: i think Hume said it best

Furthermore, the design argument is based on an incomplete analogy: because of our experience with objects, we can recognise human-designed ones, comparing for example a pile of stones and a brick wall. But in order to point to a designed Universe, we would need to have an experience of a range of different universes. As we only experience one, the analogy cannot be applied.

Tammuz wrote:ah but hugo, what if the subconcious is also part of the simulated reality? your using our reality as an example of an actual reality and the matrix as an example of simulated reality, I'm leaving our reality out of it as it's the only reality i've expiereince of and thus am unable to define if this reality is simulated or not, for i have no standard for simulated reality or actual reality, i only have a this reality and any notions of simulated or actuality are of this reality and could very well be either depending on wether this reality is actual or simulated.

to simplyfy we can't know if this reality is actual or simulated becuase we are part of it, if its simulated then what we consider real is simulated and we have no actual model of a actual reality, if it's actual then we have no actual model of simulated reality

we have one reality, without other realities owe can not make a judgment of the nature of our own, it would be like asking a person with monochrome vision what colour something is

one might as well ask if this reality is Blerg or cupla?

EDIT: i think Hume said it best

Furthermore, the design argument is based on an incomplete analogy: because of our experience with objects, we can recognise human-designed ones, comparing for example a pile of stones and a brick wall. But in order to point to a designed Universe, we would need to have an experience of a range of different universes. As we only experience one, the analogy cannot be applied.

I had to think long and hard to reply to this one.

If our subconscious is infact part of the simulated reality, then that would make us part of the simulation programming.

Since a simulation is an imitation to the highest degree to provide the most real experience possible. Then to what end would it serve to have our subconscious as apart of a simulated reality.

It would take away from the "reality" of the simulation. If this is a simulated world and we are a unknowing part of the simulation, then we can assume, that whoever created this reality for us didn't want to interfere with us, otherwise there would be no point in a simulation.

To have our subconscious, while debatable as to what it actually is, a part of the program that controls this reality, this would....tamper, with the reality.

This of course would only work and is dependant on why we are in this simulated world, why the creators of this simulated reality chose for it to be a simulation. Luckily, theres only a handful of reasons why. Either we're an experiment being tested. Enslaved for heat or some other purpose like in The Matrix. Or for some third reason which I cannot think of.

So of course in the experiment scenario, having our subconscious as apart of the reality, would ruin the experiments outcome.

I agree with you that I'm using this reality as a basis, since it's the only reality I know, simulated or no, it's still our reality, so to argue that point would just lead in circles.

So I can only go from what I know, and what I think, which I've already stated.

Senor Hugo wrote:

Tammuz wrote:ah but hugo, what if the subconcious is also part of the simulated reality? your using our reality as an example of an actual reality and the matrix as an example of simulated reality, I'm leaving our reality out of it as it's the only reality i've expiereince of and thus am unable to define if this reality is simulated or not, for i have no standard for simulated reality or actual reality, i only have a this reality and any notions of simulated or actuality are of this reality and could very well be either depending on wether this reality is actual or simulated.

to simplyfy we can't know if this reality is actual or simulated becuase we are part of it, if its simulated then what we consider real is simulated and we have no actual model of a actual reality, if it's actual then we have no actual model of simulated reality

we have one reality, without other realities owe can not make a judgment of the nature of our own, it would be like asking a person with monochrome vision what colour something is

one might as well ask if this reality is Blerg or cupla?

EDIT: i think Hume said it best

Furthermore, the design argument is based on an incomplete analogy: because of our experience with objects, we can recognise human-designed ones, comparing for example a pile of stones and a brick wall. But in order to point to a designed Universe, we would need to have an experience of a range of different universes. As we only experience one, the analogy cannot be applied.

I had to think long and hard to reply to this one.

If our subconscious is infact part of the simulated reality, then that would make us part of the simulation programming.

Since a simulation is an imitation to the highest degree to provide the most real experience possible. Then to what end would it serve to have our subconscious as apart of a simulated reality.

It would take away from the "reality" of the simulation. If this is a simulated world and we are a unknowing part of the simulation, then we can assume, that whoever created this reality for us didn't want to interfere with us, otherwise there would be no point in a simulation.

To have our subconscious, while debatable as to what it actually is, a part of the program that controls this reality, this would....tamper, with the reality.

This of course would only work and is dependant on why we are in this simulated world, why the creators of this simulated reality chose for it to be a simulation. Luckily, theres only a handful of reasons why. Either we're an experiment being tested. Enslaved for heat or some other purpose like in The Matrix. Or for some third reason which I cannot think of.

So of course in the experiment scenario, having our subconscious as apart of the reality, would ruin the experiments outcome.

I agree with you that I'm using this reality as a basis, since it's the only reality I know, simulated or no, it's still our reality, so to argue that point would just lead in circles.

So I can only go from what I know, and what I think, which I've already stated.

i think we've reached the point at which any further discussion is purely conjecture

most of my point s from now on are just lists of possible scenarios that are exceptions to your scenarios, such as perhaps the experiment is on how simulated subconscious's react differently to simulated realities and actual realities, in essence a test of simulated beings perception.

The problem with questions like this is that you can only really come to one conclusion, and that's Cartesian Doubt.
Basically, we can doubt everything,
Unfortunately we require empirical evidence to be able to apply that doubt to the real-world and obtain any meaningful result. Otherwise it just boils down to meaningless speculation about how such a system could work.

If it is, who cares?

If we woke up to some other reality, nothing would keep that from being equally simulated. The world could be an electronic simulation, a collective hallucination, an individual fantasy, or an objectively real amalgam of matter and energy leaving sensory impressions on objectively real organisms, and it wouldn't make any difference in practical terms. Within the world we experience, we take actions, and those actions have consequences. We are creating the world around us, and in turn being created by that world, regardless of its ontological status.

**puts on grimlock voice**

There no be simulation, because Myriagon no want simulation!

It's all simulation. None of this is for real.

Well, then... How do you know?