The Energon Pub

News Credits: 767 · Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:32 pm

Yes, it's this topic again and it's probably going to end with someone crying and or committing suicide, but whateves.

So, what is your opinion on Diecast? Is it something you absolutely need and feel makes a toy better or is it something you can live without or do you hate it?

The reason I bring this up is Hasbro MP Thundercracker (which is a cracking toy by the way), I just got him yesterday in the post and have been manhandling him since. And of course I compared him to MP 11 Starscream.

Up-until now I actually liked Diecast in toys, I thought it gave them a nice weight and more value. But I did notice drawbacks, like the parts would often look off and not as good/ detailed as the plastic parts, and of course the stupid paint chipping off, there also was the weight problem, and depending on where the diecast is, it would limit the range of poses you could pull off.

Now while having my way with MP TC, I noticed a few things right away. It seemed to be lighter than Starscream and his body would actually hold together more tightly (you know the head and shoulder fin thing part), you can actually pick him up by holding one of those shoulder fin things without that part sliding up. Then I realized that the skirt panels covering his legs where cast in gray plastic as opposed to being painted metal. That caught me of guard and I checked all the other diecast parts, to find out that they are all plastic, well apart from the pins and such.

I checked if this is normal or if I was ripped off with a KO, sure enough, I found out it's normal.

Now that I'm used to it, I have to say this is much better than with diecast. The weight and feel is far more appealing, the lack of mismatched paint on the diecast lets it look much better and more unified. Plus you know it hold together much better.

This kinda makes me want the MP line to lose the last bit of diecast, as I think it would actually improve the toys.

But let me hear your side or experience, tell me why I'm right/ wrong.

News Credits: 241 · Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:16 pm

Die-Cast ultimately is a double-edged sword. It's more durable than plastic, almost unbreakable to an extent, but for joints and such it's a pain.

The main appeal to Die-Cast, the weight and feel, is merely cosmetic. There's a certain bit of nostalgia involved. Anybody remember their first little toy car? Die-Cast. Not to mention it was more widely used back in the day so it's become a sweet childhood memory you'd never want to let go.

I don't mind Die-Cast myself, as long it's merely for cosmetic purposes and doesn't hinder the toy's functionality in the long run. Meaning, no metal for major joints. Binaltech and Alternity have that nailed with their Die-Cast shells. But I don't necessarily need it, but if there's a Die-Cast version somewhere, I'd get that one first.

News Credits: 2 · Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:48 pm

I like die-cast for feet, like several of the current MPs seem to have (MP-10 Prime and MP Soundwave for example). It makes the figures very stable when posing.

Aside from that, I have no use for it. It tends to scratch much more easily and I've heard the horror stories about it seriously degrading over the years.

I'm perfectly content with plastics so long as they're durable plastics, not translucent waxy plastics which will warp over the course of transformation and become useless for locking panels and joints into place.

News Credits: 60 · Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:44 pm

Die-cast as needed only. I am not sure if it was practicality or aesthetics that initially influenced Takara, Bandai,Takatoku,ToyCo and the rest of the early 80's companies that designed their toys prior to being incorporated into the TF brand by Hasbro in the 80s. Back then, the mix between die-cast and plastic worked well.

But barring the experience of Titanium :sad:

(especially now that my WWI Optimus Prime's paint is either chipping off or oxidizing with this micro pimples ) I'd say it should be done as needed only by the design.

P.S. My MP-01 first edition release paint apps are giving me nightmares because of the thin paint, its either chipping off or there's these bubbling like blisters and roughness forming on the painted surface.

News Credits: 2 · Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:13 pm

Strategically placed diecast is something I like but not diecast just for the sake of having metal content in toys.

For example, I like having diecast content in the lower parts of toys(ie. legs and feet) because that tends to give a toy stability.

Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:41 pm

Diecast becomes brittle over time, can crumble in some cases, holds paint terribly, and heat can expand it in certian regions, and cold temperatures can make it break. so no die cast for me, i love the additional weight... but not at the price of it ruining a great toy.

Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:19 pm

I like die cast.

but it doesn't have a place in every toy.

Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:29 pm

I'm not a fan, the cons far outweigh the bots... er pros.

Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:16 pm

Diecast metal is heavily overrated. Strategically used it can be a bonus, although considering the toughness of some resins these days, the only advantage it brings to the table is weight, but with the draw backs as outlined earlier in the thread.

It used to be that fans longed for more die cast metal. Then we got it in the worst way possible with the Titanium line.

For anyone who wants to argue against this and claim that Diecast metal is brilliant and should be used far more in figures like it's some wonder material, I have a simple challenge for you.

Track down the very first Titanium 6" Megatron, crack it open, try posing it, transform it every so often, then get back to me in 6 months and let me know if you still feel the same way. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the opinion of anyone taking that challenge doing a complete reversal.

Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:12 am

It made MP-01 quite a nightmare to play with but Diecast perfection is Quakewave. Just some nice diecast in the feet to give him a sturdier feel standing up.

News Credits: 20 · Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:19 am

Die cast certainly had time to shine. If the Transformers toys we were getting today were still styled like the first two to three years, sure. I'd be all about it. Though the extra heft can be a detriment to a figure who is perfectly fine without. I'm looking at you reissue Predaking! I'm just as happy without it. In the case of modern toys it isn't implemented correctly so why bother with it?

News Credits: 767 · Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:44 pm

Wow, honestly I'm surprised at so many like-minded replies. Looks like a lot has changed in the time I was gone, I thought there would be at least two calling bloody murder for suggesting that Die-Cast is unnecessary.

You know, now that I think about it, Diecast would make the most sense if it where inside of the plastic. You know, in the hollow space between the plastic parts of the body part. And then only in key places, like the feet or lower legs. That way it doesn't run the risk of looking crap and peeling paint, while still delivering better stability and heft.

News Credits: 241 · Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:53 pm

Looking at high end releases of major competitor Bandai, it's obvious Die-Cast still has its uses thanks to its weight. As mentioned before the feet for overall stability, but when used in the right places of the body, one could shift the figure's center of gravity which helps in posing.

And that's leads me to a rather startling observation. TakaraTomy uses Die-Cast exclusively decoratively, while Bandai seems to cleverly use the weight of the material in key places. It all seems to depend on how skilled a company is in using it. :-?

News Credits: 60 · Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:13 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Looking at high end releases of major competitor Bandai, it's obvious Die-Cast still has its uses thanks to its weight. As mentioned before the feet for overall stability, but when used in the right places of the body, one could shift the figure's center of gravity which helps in posing.

And that's leads me to a rather startling observation. TakaraTomy uses Die-Cast exclusively decoratively, while Bandai seems to cleverly use the weight of the material in key places. It all seems to depend on how skilled a company is in using it.

Yup! The Chogokins especially. Great use of die-cast and PVC/ABS. With the latter's paint apps looking and feeling almost die-cast like.

News Credits: 9 · Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:20 am

It all depends on where it's used. Quakewave has die-cast parts on his legs and it makes him very stable. If I could I would fill Beast Fire Predaking's feet with lead to give him the ability to stand properly.

Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:28 am

I don't believe this topic I am actually furious I'm seriously considering reporting this so the mods can lock this topic.

I feel physically sick reading this to an extent I might leave transformers collecting forever I have begged for a new masterpiece metal like mp 01 not flimsy plastic like rodimus you know why rodimus broke so eaay NO DIE CAST have you ever seen binaltechs breaking ? Yeah I wonder why.

Dke cast should be a privilege a lost art if we deny this its like denying a 100000 dollar cash prize.

Die cast bas way more pros than cons it's just takara that doesn't know how to use it look at bandai for example they know how to use it properly.

Are we to get rid of paint because of mp sideswipes sloppy paint job ?

My point exactly don't blame tbe tools blame the creator.

Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:49 am

Please note to everyone I was kidding it was a reference to the OP's post about people shouting bloody murder so I thought meh might as well.

Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:37 am

I like die-cast metal in toys, but I can understand it being a pain to have a posable figure with it (though I haven't had much trouble getting stable, yet cool-looking poses with MP-04).

Die-cast feet sound like a great idea. We need more of that

As for the paint chipping off, wouldn't that be an issue of cutting costs by not applying a primer coat to the die-cast parts?

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:31 pm

I like having die cast for figures that are going to sit on a shelf as display pieces. I am all for having it on MP's. I don't like messing with figures with die cast parts.

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:49 pm

Diecast does bring back good memories. Like my rusty, chipping, yet bulletproof yellow diecast Tonka Truck sets back in the day. I think now they are all plastic.

I still prefer Diecast Transformers when there's a choice, like Binaltechs vs Alternators.

I'll take whatever I can get nowadays. Even if it's just feet.

News Credits: 767 · Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:31 am

So I got Hasbro MP 10 Prime yesterday, and the die-cast joint in his hip that holds his upper and lower body in place had its paint ripped right off by the plastic hooks that hook into it. It made a sickening sound while doing so too. :BOOM:

First time transforming it too.

Sure you don't see it in robot-mode, but I know it's there and it pisses me off.

Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:53 am

Dead Metal wrote:So I got Hasbro MP 10 Prime yesterday, and the die-cast joint in his hip that holds his upper and lower body in place had its paint ripped right off by the plastic hooks that hook into it. It made a sickening sound while doing so too.
First time transforming it too.

Sure you don't see it in robot-mode, but I know it's there and it pisses me off.

I'm sorry to hear that but surely the plastic hooks are to blame and not the die cast maybe die cast hooks would have been more durable.

I remember wishing tbe panels on my mp 9 rodimus were die cast after they broke off.

News Credits: 767 · Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:19 pm

Loyal To The End wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:So I got Hasbro MP 10 Prime yesterday, and the die-cast joint in his hip that holds his upper and lower body in place had its paint ripped right off by the plastic hooks that hook into it. It made a sickening sound while doing so too.
First time transforming it too.

Sure you don't see it in robot-mode, but I know it's there and it pisses me off.

I'm sorry to hear that but surely the plastic hooks are to blame and not the die cast maybe die cast hooks would have been more durable.

I remember wishing tbe panels on my mp 9 rodimus were die cast after they broke off.

The hooks are fine, it's just that they pulled off the paint from the diecast part. So it's the diecast part that's damaged, since it was likely designed to be plastic, meaning the paint made it thicker than it was intended to be. Had it been red plastic, it would still look fine now.

News Credits: 60 · Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:27 am

In the case of my 2001 God ginrai re-issue that broke apart just like that, I'd wish that his parts that were ratcheted( namely his thighs and ankle joints were die-cast (as needed and not cosmetics mind you). I just transformed them and it just broke apart. :sad: