Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Dinobot4ever » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Decepticon Stryker wrote:
Dinobot4ever wrote:

The Matrix of Leadersip not residing in Optimus' superstructure - he is not a Prime without it and would, in fact, still be Orion Pax.

Galvatron was created by a Steve Jobs-like character - he was created by Unicron.

The Allspark is a metaphysical, quasi-religous concept ... In Bayverse it is crossed up with an energon cube and given a physical existence.

A red European sportscar alt-mode character is introduced in the Bayverse called "Dino" when it should have obviously been Sideswipe. And to further screw things up, Sideswipe is introduced in the next movie ... as a silver Corvette concept alt-mode?!?



1. Animated proves you don't need a Mcguffin in order to be Prime.
2. Not the first time Galvatron was created by someone other than Unicron: IDW, Robots in Disguise, and the Unicron Trilogy are good examples.
3. ...Yeah I agree with you on this.
4. This sounds very nitpicky, but Sideswipe was introduced into the Bayverse before Dino, and also it's not the first (and I doubt it'll be the last) time Sideswipe wasn't red.

Just because it wasn't like the source material doesnt mean it's stupid. I could see a good story where humans being their typical idiotc selves accidentally upgrading Megatron's corpse into Galvatron. Now don't get me wrong, the Bayverse has hundreds of thousands of flaws; but it's still Transformers. Just a very very flawed version, like if Carnage in C Minor was the best thing to happen to Transformers kind of flawed.


1. Not sure what you mean by your Animated reference. Are you talking about the Hod Rod/Rodimus character? I think he was named Rodimus Minor, not Prime. Forgive my memory on Animated … I haven't revisited that series since it first aired. The Jay Leno chins, microwaists, and other distorted anatomy aesthetic was hard to watch for me. Good story though.

2. IDW - I'll grudgingly give you this one. As with any long-standing comic that has multiple titles under the main heading, there are a lot different takes on the subject matter, often conflicting or not making any sense in light of what proceeded. Also, as is typical, a lot "What ifs" stories are incorporated. Shattered Glass being the one that immediately jumps to mind. They have to come up with something interesting to fill all those volumes of comics! I take IDW as almost a paralleling TF universe with mild bleed through (i.e. Wreckers and Windblade).

RID/Car Robots was Gigatron and "Devil" Gigatron to be correct. Different character from Megatron/Galvatron. Therein lies the danger of dubbing ... information is lost from the original material, including emotion of the voice actor. That is why I prefer subtitles if I don't speak the language.

Cybertron/Galaxy Force - Unicron was the driving force in the transformation. My Unicron Trilogy is a little rusty but the black arua that Megatron had forming around him when he was on the Giant Planet was Unicron's energy. Coupled with his rage, he formed into Galavatron. Not the overt manner as in the 1986 movie but still Unicron-driven.

4. In the VAST majority of Sideswipe appearances since 1984, he has been a red Lambo or Lambo-like car. If Bayverse would have made him a black Lambo or Lambo-like car, I'd give them some serious G2-inspired points! But we got silver because red was already taken by the Dino character.

I did not say the Bayverse was "stupid" but I do agree it is quite flawed. That is why I distance myself from it.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:33 pm

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The Dino character came out after Sideswipe.

Also Megatron in armada turned to Galvaltron without unicrons influence (and in Energon)

In animated Prime was a rank like captain or corporal, with Magnus being the ultimate rank (hence Sentinel Magnus at series end.)
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Dinobot4ever » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:00 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:Animated used the movieverse version of the All spark. As per Galvaltron, there's actually more instances at this point of Galvaltron not being made by unicron. BWII also has a galvy that isn't made of Unicron and isn't megs upgraded.

As for the matrix, IDW did it differently as well.

Also the 07 movie was never a live action G1, it was ir's own thing, same as rid 2000,the unicron trilogy, animated, Prime, Cyberverse etc


That is the Bayverse coloring the cannon like the now ubiquitous Camaro or Camaro-like alt-mode of Bumblebee. You are putting the proverbial cart before the horse in your argument. In BWII we are just launched into this series with an existing Galvatron (no backstory). Can't say yes or no on origin there. However didn't BW Neo have Unicron become Galvatron? Like a possession of his body? It is muddled, I'll grant you, but still Unicron is involved.

I'll repeat my IDW thoughts from an earlier post:

As with any long-standing comic that has multiple titles under the main heading, there are a lot different takes on the subject matter, often conflicting or not making any sense in light of what proceeded. Also, as is typical, a lot "What if" stories are incorporated. Shattered Glass being the one that immediately jumps to mind. They have to come up with something interesting to fill all those volumes of comics! I take IDW as almost a paralleling TF universe with mild bleed through (i.e. Wreckers and Windblade).

All the series you mention are based on TF cannon with little deviation. RID/Car Robots might be the biggest deviant but it was meant to be a "What if" like I mentioned above with IDW. Kind of a "one off" story set in a similar but not exactly the same TF universe. Things are familiar but a few aren't … Predacons and Decepticons existing at the same time (ooo, ahh!!), Optimus and Ultra Magnus COMBINE (gasp!) … you get the picture.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Dragma Kerp » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:11 pm

15ngcs1 wrote:I'm not saying they're horrible creations that need to be erased from earth, because there's a movie for everyone. I'm just saying there's little heart and character development in those movies. Bumblebee is supposed to be the most human character with the most heart, just like in the cartoons. That's why many people love and relate to Bumblebee so much. It just wasn't portrayed in the past few movies. The movie Bumblebee is really the first time we get to know Bumblebee as a character.

I agree with you in the passion and heart part, but my point is, people in general (not you maybe, I'm generalising) tend to forgive nostalgic things for things that they hate newer things.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Dinobot4ever » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:06 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:The Dino character came out after Sideswipe.

Also Megatron in armada turned to Galvaltron without unicrons influence (and in Energon)

In animated Prime was a rank like captain or corporal, with Magnus being the ultimate rank (hence Sentinel Magnus at series end.)



Still doesn't change the fact Sideswipe is red and, in fact, proves the ineptitude of the Bayverse.

Dubbing error again. In the original Japanese (Micron Densetsu), he never calls himself Galvatron. It is something like Super Mode. Still Megatron.

In Energon his physical transformation to Galvatron wasn't caused directly by Unicron, however Unicron's mind was in Megatron/Galvatron's body, directing him all along. Unicron still involved.

So the Matrix isn't addresed at all in Animated. Not proof for or against my point. A wash.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:20 pm

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Dinobot4ever wrote:So the Matrix isn't addresed at all in Animated. Not proof for or against my point. A wash.
The Matrix was seen at the end of Animated. It was a new container that Optimus forged with the Magnus Hammer (albeit, offscreen) to carry the newly reconstituted crystal of the AllSpark. It had nothing to do with leadership. The symbol of leadership in Animated was the Magnus Hammer, wielded by the Supreme Commander who bears the rank of Magnus, with the rank of Prime being a subordinate rank belonging to many, including Optimus, Sentinel, Rodimus, and many more.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Burn » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:22 pm

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Hi ... guys ... girls ... just a friendly reminder that the title of this thread is "Discussion on next live action Transformers film after Bumblebee". Seeing something completely different in the last page or so.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:53 pm

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Wasn't the Cybertron Origin movie supposed to be in some sort of development? Is it possible that and tf 6 are now the one and same movie?

I still think a 90s buddy cop movie for bee 2 would be awesome, especially if filled with G2 references.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Jeddostotle7 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:55 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:Wasn't the Cybertron Origin movie supposed to be in some sort of development? Is it possible that and tf 6 are now the one and same movie?

I still think a 90s buddy cop movie for bee 2 would be awesome, especially if filled with G2 references.


Aw man, now you've got me wanting to see G2 Laser Prime in the Bumblebee movie style...

EDIT: ...and some BB movie-style seekers in G2 Starscream and Ramjet (and maybe even Action Master Thundercracker) colors. Maybe Bee could be identical to his BB movie look but in chrome? :lol:
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Future Transformers Sequels to be a Blend of Bumblebee Movie Characterization and Bayhem

Postby william-james88 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:20 am

There was a bit of confusion last week with the announcement that the Bayverse was here to stay, at least in some fashion. Of course, no one associated with the films had said otherwise and the word "reboot" had never actually been used but some fans were eager to move away from the Michael Bay films of the past. Producer Lorenzo di Bonaventura acknowledges this in his latest interview saying that he has definitely heard the disdain for Michael Bay's films and the joy at the change of pace and style found in the Bumblebee film, which focused more on character. Bumblebee proved that a film set in the Bayverse could be different enough to provide fans a new experience and future films will follow suite, it is a lesson the producer has learnt.

However, Mr Di Bonaventura did also hear many fans saying that Bumblebee did lack the level of action that came with a Transformers film. Afterall, it wasn't necessarily the action element that fans disliked from the Bay films. So future films will try to satisfy both parties, those looking for more of what the Bumblebee movie offered and those seeking more "Bayhem". That was his choice of words, which you can read below in an interview from Collider.

Also, while an Optimus centric film was on the table at some point, the producer has stated that this project has morphed into the buddy movie of Optimus and Bumblebee which will serve as a sequel to Last year's Transformers: Bumblebee movie. That tidbit was reported in an interview with The River.

“…the audience had asked us several times, in different ways, ‘I want to get to know a Transformer better.” We did that. In some respects, definitely a tip to what the audience had said to us. The interesting part is when you set out to do something like that, you don’t exactly know the ramifications of it. In this case, the ramification of it was, for the people who didn’t love the movie, was not enough action. Because you’re telling a more intimate story, therefore you can’t. So the criticism we got from some fans was like, “Hey, come on.” It was funny, I was just in Japan…and one of the reporters said to me, ‘I love the movie, I love this, I love this, and I was very tired of Michael Bay.’ I said, ‘Uh huh, I’ve heard this before.” And he goes, ‘But you know, after watching this film, I kind of wish it had a little more Michael Bay.’ It was really funny. I said, ‘Listen, I completely understand. I like what Michael does, too. Two different films, two different attempts.'”

“Several lessons have come out of this. One is that we have the freedom to tell almost any story. The other is that, how strongly the audience identified with the strength of character and emotion. I know the next Transformer, our attempt anyway, is to sort of do a fusion of Bumblebee and the Bay movies…a little more Bayhem. And a little bit more of the character falling in love within the emotional dynamic of the movie. One of the things I want to do—and I hope we pull it off—is, we did it with Bumblebee because he’s so cute and he’s so accessible, but he can’t talk. I think the more human we can make these characters, the more people are going to like them.


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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:30 am

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So more action and more focus on emotional development? It would depend on director and writing staff if they can pull it off
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby william-james88 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am

ZeroWolf wrote:So more action and more focus on emotional development? It would depend on director and writing staff if they can pull it off

I read it as same focus on emotional development but more action. It can be pulled off. Infinity War pulled it off.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby ScottyP » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:40 am

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I don't believe anything they say about these movies ahead of time anymore, especialy when they're in planning stages.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby william-james88 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:47 am

ScottyP wrote:I don't believe anything they say about these movies ahead of time anymore, especialy when they're in planning stages.

Especially after the Last Knight right? Remember all that talk about making this huge writing room and getting Robert Kirkman and others. And what did we get? More of the same (or worse).
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby TulioDude » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:49 am

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william-james88 wrote:
ScottyP wrote:I don't believe anything they say about these movies ahead of time anymore, especialy when they're in planning stages.

Especially after the Last Knight right? Remember all that talk about making this huge writing room and getting Robert Kirkman and others. And what did we get? More of the same (or worse).


But also gave us the Bumblebee movie,which was already being planned before the Last Knight was released.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Kyleor » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:32 am

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"Afterall, it wasn't necessarily the action element that fans disliked from the Bay films."

But I thought that the (too much) action element is what people disliked from the Bay films...

Bumblebee was an excellent balance of action and actual, cohesive, story.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby william-james88 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:54 am

Kyleor wrote:"Afterall, it wasn't necessarily the action element that fans disliked from the Bay films."

But I thought that the (too much) action element is what people disliked from the Bay films...

Bumblebee was an excellent balance of action and actual, cohesive, story.

There is a bit of that but from what I have read and experienced, what people hate most from Bay is the inapropriate humour, the lack of attention to the robots, the lack of a focused story, the over complicated designs of the transformers, and all that sex talk.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:04 am

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william-james88 wrote:
Kyleor wrote:"Afterall, it wasn't necessarily the action element that fans disliked from the Bay films."

But I thought that the (too much) action element is what people disliked from the Bay films...

Bumblebee was an excellent balance of action and actual, cohesive, story.

There is a bit of that but from what I have read and experienced, what people hate most from Bay is the inapropriate humour, the lack of attention to the robots, the lack of a focused story, the over complicated designs of the transformers, and all that sex talk.
Oh, there have been some complaints about the action as well. Not that there's too much or whatever, but that it's either been too violent (focusing too much on the graphic killing aspect or the collateral damage rather than the fight choreography) or too incomprehensible (see the first movie's robot fight scenes that had so many blurs, close ups, and awkward angles that made actually seeing what was going on at times an effort of futility).
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Ratman_tf » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:09 am

Action is good, but it has to serve the story. Bayhem is mindless spectacle at the expense of stories and characters.
Transformers doesn't need Bayhem.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Ratman_tf » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:12 am

william-james88 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:So more action and more focus on emotional development? It would depend on director and writing staff if they can pull it off

I read it as same focus on emotional development but more action. It can be pulled off. Infinity War pulled it off.


The Marvel movies are generally a good blend of action, humor, story, character, etc.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby hausjam » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:26 am

The plot of AOE and TLK certainly left alot to be desired. But I personally love the "Bayformers" design aesthetic. And I grew up with G1 (and own a truckload of the toys). For cartoonish whatever, G1 rules. For live action, Bayformers looked perfect. These are advanced, robotic beings. Their bodies should look advanced and complex. The Bumblebee prologue scenes on Cybertron looked very rushed and amateurish; the cgi itself wasn't hateful, but the designs themselves were just G1-rehash; too simplistic, not well thought out, and certainly not original. The G1 designs do NOT translate to photo-realism. The toys were from a simpler time and the cartoon models were designed to be drawn quickly and on the cheap. They are fun for nostalgic masterpiece toys, but that's where they should end.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby SlyTF1 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:33 pm

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That's what I'm talking about! The best part about Bumblebee was the first 2 minutes on Cybertron and then the fight with Blitzwing. The rest of the movie was complete and utter boring garbage.
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby Jumpstart1083 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:25 pm

“I think the more human we can make these characters the more people will love them” ...

Are you kidding me, dude? I could slap this idiot. First of all, that’s how you write character to begin with. Even if you’re writing a weird alien it’s still going to be a departure from what we consider human, and therefore still TIED to humanity and human feelings in some way that’s interesting to us, IF done well... Transformers has been doing this SINCE IT’S INCEPTION, in EVERY ITERATION. Hence, the fan reactions to the thoughtless carnal **** show movies!?!??

God good.

Secondly, the fans have been whining about that since the first movie. This is not some kind of thought provoking statement, Jesus Christ. It’s them finally listening to our feedback. I don’t know why, but the nonchalance of that statement just hit my nerves.

I don’t want a return to bay styled action, unless it makes sense for the story and is well choreographed and uses its environment thoughtfully, like Bumblebee. Shiny metal pieces of something floating around my screen like a screen saver on crack ain’t for me. **** happening for no reason for 30 minutes at a time is useless to me. And boring as hell. I do agree though, a bit more action could be good BUT ONLY, if they take the lessons they learned from the Bumblebee movie and carry them over, and really honestly incorporate them. If it becomes more thoughtless bullshit and no characterization or story telling just for the sake of a bunch of mindless violence... My head will explode out of the sheer stupidity, like a bay movie. Lol...
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby SkyFire Prime » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:18 pm

Now it's a reboot...

Bumblebee Producer Says Next Transformers Movie Will Be A Reboot

"The main Transformers movie we are working on is a reboot, and I will say that the Bumblebee sequel will be more directly linked to the timeline that we set up,"
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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

Postby 15ngcs1 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:19 pm

Jumpstart1083 wrote:“I think the more human we can make these characters the more people will love them” ...

Are you kidding me, dude? I could slap this idiot. First of all, that’s how you write character to begin with. Even if you’re writing a weird alien it’s still going to be a departure from what we consider human, and therefore still TIED to humanity and human feelings in some way that’s interesting to us, IF done well... Transformers has been doing this SINCE IT’S INCEPTION, in EVERY ITERATION. Hence, the fan reactions to the thoughtless carnal **** show movies!?!??

God good.

Secondly, the fans have been whining about that since the first movie. This is not some kind of thought provoking statement, Jesus Christ. It’s them finally listening to our feedback. I don’t know why, but the nonchalance of that statement just hit my nerves.

I don’t want a return to bay styled action, unless it makes sense for the story and is well choreographed and uses its environment thoughtfully, like Bumblebee. Shiny metal pieces of something floating around my screen like a screen saver on crack ain’t for me. **** happening for no reason for 30 minutes at a time is useless to me. And boring as hell. I do agree though, a bit more action could be good BUT ONLY, if they take the lessons they learned from the Bumblebee movie and carry them over, and really honestly incorporate them. If it becomes more thoughtless bullshit and no characterization or story telling just for the sake of a bunch of mindless violence... My head will explode out of the sheer stupidity, like a bay movie. Lol...


exactly!
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #225 - The Overexposure of Bumblebee
Twincast / Podcast #225:
"The Overexposure of Bumblebee"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Sunday, June 16th, 2019

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