The Energon Pub

It isn't perfect. In fact, it sounds a lot like the first half of Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. Work on dialogue and scene descriptions, you might have something, but for now I'm not calling it better.

Shadowman wrote:If you think that's bad, let me tell you about G Gundam. It was the first of the AU series, and took everything Gundam had been built up into (Horrors of war, ideology, heavily conflicted characters, etc.) tossed that out the window, and convinced it it was supposed to be DBZ. And don't get me started on the designs.

RotF had its problems, but at least it didn't remove the War concept and make it a damn martial arts tournament.

...But then we can agree 00 was awesome. (Despite having so many character I want to punch in the face)

The only reason I won’t throw G Gundam under the bus is that it stayed true to itself…It introduced itself as a shonen-fighter series, and while that’s certainly detestable if you think that has no place whatsoever in Gundam it never tried to be something it wasn’t…It went hardcore on it’s videogame-esque battle-mode template and in the end I think fans of the series were treated with a pretty damn good final fight (Atleast aesthetically)…Put in it’s context I kinda enjoyed G Gundam…The difference between that and GSD (also TF2 for that matter) is that G Gundam didn’t fail in basic execution of script and plot…

The thing about GSD is that it had arguably the best 4-7 episodes in Gundam History…It had so much potential to be incredible, and not only did it fail it nearly got pulled off the air and became an industry embarrassment (Much like TF2 the sales won’t coincide with that)…Part of the reason GSD sucked is because it actually started off amazing and by the time it ended it was beyond a joke…They even had to retcon it’s $hittiness TWICE in Final Plus and in the Recap Movies and it STILL SUCKED (of course unless you like Kira X Lacus flawless victories)…Something like G Gundam while I may or may not like it I can respect it to a degree…

As for 00, yeas it was great, although my favorite character Mr. Bushido got the shaft T_T…

wingdarkness wrote:Part of the reason GSD sucked is because it actually started off amazing and by the time it ended it was beyond a joke…They even had to retcon it’s $hittiness TWICE in Final Plus and in the Recap Movies and it STILL SUCKED (of course unless you like Kira X Lacus flawless victories)…Something like G Gundam while I may or may not like it I can respect it to a degree…

Final Plus was there because many people complained the ending was far too abrupt, and it was. As far as retcons go, Final Plus was a good one, but it would have worked so much better if it WASN'T simply an extension but the actual Episode 50. As for Compilation movies, they do that. Zeta's movies retconed most of Universal Century, especially ZZ Gundam.

wingdarkness wrote:As for 00, yeas it was great, although my favorite character Mr. Bushido got the shaft T_T…

Graham (Remember, he didn't like the Bushido nickname) got the shaft, and Marina didn't. She should have died, if only to give a massive boost in character development to Setsuna. And Nena died, though given Louise's situation (I hated Louise too) she kind of had it coming. Patrick lived, though. We can celebrate that.

noctorro wrote:
Hi peoples, ...

An interesting read, with a few tweaks it could actually work out pretty well

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:Part of the reason GSD sucked is because it actually started off amazing and by the time it ended it was beyond a joke…They even had to retcon it’s $hittiness TWICE in Final Plus and in the Recap Movies and it STILL SUCKED (of course unless you like Kira X Lacus flawless victories)…Something like G Gundam while I may or may not like it I can respect it to a degree…

Final Plus was there because many people complained the ending was far too abrupt, and it was. As far as retcons go, Final Plus was a good one, but it would have worked so much better if it WASN'T simply an extension but the actual Episode 50. As for Compilation movies, they do that. Zeta's movies retconed most of Universal Century, especially ZZ Gundam.

wingdarkness wrote:As for 00, yeas it was great, although my favorite character Mr. Bushido got the shaft T_T…

Graham (Remember, he didn't like the Bushido nickname) got the shaft, and Marina didn't. She should have died, if only to give a massive boost in character development to Setsuna. And Nena died, though given Louise's situation (I hated Louise too) she kind of had it coming. Patrick lived, though. We can celebrate that.

You should really join animesuki.com & goto the G-forum so that we can have a more spirited debate…Over there I have your post count^^…Good one with calling me out on Mr. Bushido, that means your not just a casual case-study (I know Graham like I know the back of my hand I warn you)… Obviously it wasn't a perfect series, but it did the franchise proud in the end I'd say and If you can say it was better than the TFs movie franchise I can truly crack a smile...

P.S. Zeta's retcons didn't suck, that's the difference...

This topic isnt about gundams lol

SoundWave88 wrote:This topic isn't about gundams lol

Then why's that GM-custom break-dancing in ur signature?? ;p

Noctorro,

Interesting read. And I'm all for Trypticon. As for your planet sized mystery character, take a gander at the newest addition to my art album here in the Fan Art Forum. Right now its just a head shot, but there's more of him to come.

viewtopic.php?f=145&t=55928

Laters,
Josh

Whoa! I leave for a day, and this turns into a Gundam topic??

I wasn't going to respond, but hell., who am i kidding... This is more entertaining than reality TV!

wingdarkness wrote:
Here’s your problem…Batman, as a comic, hell as an institution has been done over and over again for more than 50 years…It has been attacked from every angle, every caveat, from psychedelic dancing 60’s Batman, to Terry McGinnis bumping and grinding on little Asian cheerleaders in Batman Beyond…The movies in-turn have also reflected this plethora of different themes and genre-changes within the genre…

Transformers on the other hand had never been done for the silver screen in a live adaptation, so taking liberties in the source material for Batman Begins (Just as was done in original Batman movie with Jack Napier being the one who kills Bruce’s parents) isn’t seen as something cataclysmic, especially coupled with the fact they are generally viewed as “good movies”…

..As was Tf1, and ROTF. Both are good movies. Regardless if Batman has been made over time and time again, this argument doesn't hold water, cause Batman & Robin and Batman Forever was based on source material. I'm not saying in its intirity, (I don't think any adaption has) but largely on looks, character design and characterization. You can't argue this. The fact that Batman as a whole has been redone multiple times does not give this a free pass. All it does is prove that following source material to an extent does not garratee a good "respectful" movie as you call it.

wingdarkness wrote:
So dude, it’s really not as simple as you want to try and make it

Oh wow... Sorry, i had to laugh when i read this. It really is simple. This is a movie about robots Transforming into vehicles loosly based on a children's cartoon in the 80's that many of us have been suckered into fot the last 25 yrs. Some more than others. NOthing more. Nothing less.

wingdarkness wrote:
but at the same time it’s not as complex as you think most of us who loathes Bay’s adaptation really want it…

Are you serious right now? Ya, when i read posts like this...

wingdarkness wrote:)…But when YOU GO OUT OF YOUR WAY, like Mike Bay does to not only disrespect a virtual cornucopia of g1 fans and to make a movie version that many in and out of the fan base from a critical standpoint acknowledge fails in basic execution, you have a recipe for the spiraling hate for this man and this movie that you witness everyday from awesome members like myself…

...Spiraling hate? That's a pretty strong words to describe someone for doing an adaptions of a kids cartoon that you don't approve of don't you think? It leaves me to believe that you do in fact take this matter to the heart, as well as making this whole situation alot more complex than you'd like many to believe you feel it is. That, and if it didn't bug you as much as you claim it doesn't, then you wouldn't have taken the time to write down your thoughts on the matter.

And what is this about disrespect? Cause MB through in some dirty jokes and didn't give every TF a line, you act like he went into your east side hood throwing up west side hand signals. Please...

wingdarkness wrote:Finally, don’t equate throw-a-dog-a-bone homages with respectful homages…Oh we put Soundwave in the movie ejecting Ravage, so now I have permission to have unexplained Terminator 2 “Pretenders”, and make the “Matrix of Leadership” a sun-exploding weapon,…$hit doesn’t work like that…

Right dude. Cause using Peter Cullen's voice wasn't respectful, neither was using Frank Weller's voice.
Neither was having Ravage eject out of Soundwave...
or Primes.. "Autobots, Role out!" lines.. Or "One shall stand, one shall fall."
And being the TF expert you are i would have thought you knew about TF using Pretenders in the past. Maybe i gave you to much credit.

wingdarkness wrote:
…When Bay and others realize that the hardcores CAN DEAL as long as you give us something with SOUL maybe they’ll win with original fans one day… You think exploding robots are cool? Boy imagine how cool it would have been to have watched robots with souls battle each other…One can only dream…

Optimus had soul..
so did Ironhide,...
so did Rachet,...
so did Bumble Bee,...
so did Jazz,....
so did Megatron,...
so did Starscream,....
so did Jetfire,....
So did skids,...
So did Mudflap,...
So did the fallen,....
Granted this is not every robot, but they played key roles and you could connect with them.
Face it dude. It just wasn't done in the fashion that you wanted it.

wingdarkness wrote:

SoundWave88 wrote:This topic isn't about gundams lol

Then why's that GM-custom break-dancing in ur signature?? ;p

A G1 fanboy like yourself can't reconise G1 Soundwave??? Ouch.

I feel the comics are completly ignored when it comes to these arguments.

Directing TF3--Hey anything having to do with TF3

At this time, I'd rather have Steven Spielberg or Ridley Scott.

knowing how gay megatron will get who is next in line for ultimate leadership for the decepticons he will look for something powerful like UNICRON or something else

Cruiser 5150 wrote:..As was Tf1, and ROTF. Both are good movies. Regardless if Batman has been made over time and time again, this argument doesn't hold water, cause Batman & Robin and Batman Forever was based on source material. I'm not saying in its intirity, (I don't think any adaption has) but largely on looks, character design and characterization. You can't argue this. The fact that Batman as a whole has been redone multiple times does not give this a free pass. All it does is prove that following source material to an extent does not garratee a good "respectful" movie as you call it.

It’s ridiculous to compare Batman and Transformers in-terms of the public scope…Batman has been nurturing and evolving in mass media for like 70 years…TF’s had been around about a quarter of that and had never made a live-action adaptation…Darknight Batman hardcores have been given multiple movies that engage that sub-genre…Camp Batman fans have likewise been given a plethora of choices that engage their side (Whether or not I love it and I have loved many of them)…Same goes for the casual Batman fans who have been able to get an eclectic mix of each in various works…When something is that established you can take liberties because it’s been done to death(Like I was telling you DC can basically cover it’s a$$ with “Crisis” multiple-universes to make people who wanna choke Joel Schumaker for B & R pause a bit because MAYBE Alfred’s niece is Batgirl in one of them)...Many haters of this movie have no pillow for comfort, and worry that there will never be a good live-action adaptation of something we loved (Unlike Batman)…

Another TF problem, unlike Batman, is that Micheal Bay specifically ignored or raped (whatever term you’ll allow) the fanbase in which TF was at it’s most popular stint within the public scope…Say what you will, but without mid-80’s kids like me there would be no public-conscious for TF’s…That popularity served as a base where the comics and subsequent animated works were able to continue spawning from…

Oh wow... Sorry, i had to laugh when i read this. It really is simple. This is a movie about robots Transforming into vehicles loosly based on a children's cartoon in the 80's that many of us have been suckered into fot the last 25 yrs. Some more than others. NOthing more. Nothing less.

If it was simple we’d have a good F*cking movie we could be proud of…Kthxgoodbye (Atleast on this because I'd have to make another thread addressing this)…

...Spiraling hate? That's a pretty strong words to describe someone for doing an adaptions of a kids cartoon that you don't approve of don't you think? It leaves me to believe that you do in fact take this matter to the heart, as well as making this whole situation alot more complex than you'd like many to believe you feel it is. That, and if it didn't bug you as much as you claim it doesn't, then you wouldn't have taken the time to write down your thoughts on the matter.

First off go and google “Micheal Bay and hate” and if that search engine doesn’t slo-motion explode to a cheesy 360-degree camera spin then you didn’t click ENTER….You think I just magically created Bay-Hate? LMMFAO, Get a clue brother…It’s easy, Micheal Bay makes $hit that appeals to the lowest common denominator of humans...Hell yeah I take it to heart he ruined something that could have been visually great and memorable aswell by turning the whole damn thing into his bastard child…What’s complex about that? Yeah it bugs me…That should be really rudimentary for mental consumption (Bay Sucks = Why did he have to direct TFs)…

And what is this about disrespect? Cause MB through in some dirty jokes and didn't give every TF a line, you act like he went into your east side hood throwing up west side hand signals. Please...

I don’t really give a $hit about the Skids thing personally, but Micheal Bay is like a white-writer penning black characters on a sitcom in many of his movies…If you like that $hit fine, just don’t be dismissive toward REASONABLE PEOPLE (Not idiots) who may have found some of their antics suspect, especially when the writers of said movie (and I say that loosely based on Bay’s record with pimpimg writers) also found it un-“thrilling”…

Right dude. Cause using Peter Cullen's voice wasn't respectful, neither was using Frank Weller's voice.
Neither was having Ravage eject out of Soundwave...
or Primes.. "Autobots, Role out!" lines.. Or "One shall stand, one shall fall."

And being the TF expert you are i would have thought you knew about TF using Pretenders in the past. Maybe i gave you to much credit.

Optimus had soul..
so did Ironhide,...
so did Rachet,...
so did Bumble Bee,...
so did Jazz,....
so did Megatron,...
so did Starscream,....
so did Jetfire,....
So did skids,...
So did Mudflap,...
So did the fallen,....
Granted this is not every robot, but they played key roles and you could connect with them.

You think just because Frank Weller was in the movie that was the same character he did however many years ago? Sheesh…This right here is a fundamental-difference we have...Either you feel this $hit or you can ride Mike Bay on your shoulders…If you don’t understand the difference between soulful homages and 007 Daniel Craig Level Optimus Prime kill-tactics that is what it is…If you don’t understand the difference between Baymorphers and Transformers that is what it is aswell…The people who know KNOW what I mean when I say soulless homages, you apparently, if not extraordinarily don’t based on that passage…The Fallen had a soul? Jesus Skywalker…
If you don’t know anything about me, just know I disagree with you on this perhaps more than anything else…It even worries me somewhat that that’s your equivalent of what I mean by soul…

Face it dude. It just wasn't done in the fashion that you wanted it.

LOL, what am I even still logging on for? You’re obviously a mind-reader OR, I’ve been saying this in some form or fashion from day 1…Good God if I had actually got the movie I wanted, people might be praising it as their GOD…

A G1 fanboy like yourself can't reconise G1 Soundwave??? Ouch.

Uh it’s called a joke…I’m hoping you got the joke, or noticed the little tongue-and-cheek character (;P) I put after my joke…If you didn’t get my non-complex joke, Ouch...

wingdarkness wrote:

Cruiser 5150 wrote:..As was Tf1, and ROTF. Both are good movies. Regardless if Batman has been made over time and time again, this argument doesn't hold water, cause Batman & Robin and Batman Forever was based on source material. I'm not saying in its intirity, (I don't think any adaption has) but largely on looks, character design and characterization. You can't argue this. The fact that Batman as a whole has been redone multiple times does not give this a free pass. All it does is prove that following source material to an extent does not garratee a good "respectful" movie as you call it.

It’s ridiculous to compare Batman and Transformers in-terms of the public scope…Batman has been nurturing and evolving in mass media for like 70 years…TF’s had been around about a quarter of that and had never made a live-action adaptation…Darknight Batman hardcores have been given multiple movies that engage that sub-genre…Camp Batman fans have likewise been given a plethora of choices that engage their side (Whether or not I love it and I have loved many of them)…Same goes for the casual Batman fans who have been able to get an eclectic mix of each in various works…When something is that established you can take liberties because it’s been done to death(Like I was telling you DC can basically cover it’s a$$ with “Crisis” multiple-universes to make people who wanna choke Joel Schumaker for B & R pause a bit because MAYBE Alfred’s niece is Batgirl in one of them)...Many haters of this movie have no pillow for comfort, and worry that there will never be a good live-action adaptation of something we loved (Unlike Batman)…
Another TF problem, unlike Batman, is that Micheal Bay specifically ignored or raped (whatever term you’ll allowed) the fanbase in which TF was at it’s most popular stint within the public scope…Say what you will, but without mid-80’s kids like me there would be no public-conscious for TF’s…That popularity served as a base where the comics and subsequent animated works were able to continue spawning from…

Oh wow... Sorry, i had to laugh when i read this. It really is simple. This is a movie about robots Transforming into vehicles loosly based on a children's cartoon in the 80's that many of us have been suckered into fot the last 25 yrs. Some more than others. NOthing more. Nothing less.

If it was simple we’d have a good F*cking movie we could be proud of…Kthxgoodbye (Atleast on this because I'd have to make another thread addressing this)…

...Spiraling hate? That's a pretty strong words to describe someone for doing an adaptions of a kids cartoon that you don't approve of don't you think? It leaves me to believe that you do in fact take this matter to the heart, as well as making this whole situation alot more complex than you'd like many to believe you feel it is. That, and if it didn't bug you as much as you claim it doesn't, then you wouldn't have taken the time to write down your thoughts on the matter.

First off go and google “Micheal Bay and hate” and if that search engine doesn’t slo-motion explode to a cheesy 360-degree camera spin then you didn’t click ENTER….You think I just magically created Bay-Hate? LMMFAO, Get a clue brother…It’s easy, Micheal Bay makes $hit that appeals to the lowest common denominator of humans...Hell yeah I take it to heart he ruined something that could have been visually great and memorable aswell by turning the whole damn thing into his bastard child…What’s complex about that? Yeah it bugs me…That should be really rudimentary for mental consumption (Bay Sucks = Why did he have to direct TFs)…

And what is this about disrespect? Cause MB through in some dirty jokes and didn't give every TF a line, you act like he went into your east side hood throwing up west side hand signals. Please...

I don’t really give a $hit about the Skids thing personally, but Micheal Bay is like a white-writer penning black characters on a sitcom in many of his movies…If you like that $hit fine, just don’t be dismissive toward REASONABLE PEOPLE (Not idiots) who may have found some of their antics suspect, especially when the writers of said movie (and I say that loosely based on Bay’s record with pimpimg writers) also found it un-“thrilling”…

Right dude. Cause using Peter Cullen's voice wasn't respectful, neither was using Frank Weller's voice.
Neither was having Ravage eject out of Soundwave...
or Primes.. "Autobots, Role out!" lines.. Or "One shall stand, one shall fall."

And being the TF expert you are i would have thought you knew about TF using Pretenders in the past. Maybe i gave you to much credit.

Optimus had soul..
so did Ironhide,...
so did Rachet,...
so did Bumble Bee,...
so did Jazz,....
so did Megatron,...
so did Starscream,....
so did Jetfire,....
So did skids,...
So did Mudflap,...
So did the fallen,....
Granted this is not every robot, but they played key roles and you could connect with them.

You think just because Frank Weller was in the movie that was the same character he did however many years ago? Sheesh…This right here is a fundamental-difference we have...Either you feel this $hit or you can ride Mike Bay on your shoulders…If you don’t understand the difference between soulful homages and 007 Daniel Craig Level Optimus Prime kill-tactics that is what it is…If you don’t understand the difference between Baymorphers and Transformers that is what it is aswell…The people who know KNOW what I mean when I say soulless homages, you apparently, if not extraordinarily don’t based on that passage…The Fallen had a soul? Jesus Skywalker…
If you don’t know anything about me, just know I disagree with you on this perhaps more than anything else…It even worries me somewhat that that’s your equivalent of what I mean by soul…

Face it dude. It just wasn't done in the fashion that you wanted it.

LOL, what am I even still logging on for? You’re obviously a mind-reader OR, I’ve been saying this in some form or fashion from day 1…Good God if I had actually got the movie I wanted, people might be praising it as their GOD…

A G1 fanboy like yourself can't reconise G1 Soundwave??? Ouch.

Uh it’s called a joke…I’m hoping you got the joke, or noticed the little tongue-and-cheek character (;P) I put after my joke…If you didn’t get my non-complex joke, Ouch...

Man, your a hard Fu(cker to crack! I guess were just going to have to agree to disagree. I admire your passion and determination on the subject, but at this point i think its aparent that neither one of us are going to change each others opinions on the matter. I know that wasn't the point in its intirety of this paticular debate, but at this point i think were just going to go around in circles..

Till we meet again....

@Cruiser 5150 - How I wish, truly and honestly, I didn't have to feel this way...

I am the F-word @ times...I just don't know how to be anything but myself...TFs movies personally offend me, what can I tell ya? Thanx for the debate though...