The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:I want you to know that everything you just said really makes it look like you never played FF7. For instance, that scene you described, never happened. Also, Cloud can lift the Buster Sword because of the gene therapy making him into a super soldier, which they made a pretty big deal about, as well as having absorbed the memories of another super soldier, which they made a very subtle deal about. (A lot more obvious in Crisis Core) Also, he got shot in the head like five minutes into Advent Children, all it did was leave a small scar. Also, the entire cast is shown being able to leap at least twice their own height in the original game. The only reason Cloud was never shown leaping around like he did in AC was because you couldn't really do that on the PS1, much less in an RPG like Final Fantasy.
Also, as for FF7 being the launch of anime-RPGs, Chrono Trigger came out two years before, with character designs by Dragonball creator Akira Toriyama.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Its been 10 years since I played the game, and to be fair the whole 'absorbs skills and memories from a real soldier' thing is sketchy. he may have trained his whole life to be in SOLDIER but he was never accepted, and the method he was infused with jenova and mako was in a guy's basement, effectively meaning he's a poor man's soldier.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Also, you're making the argument that because they couldn't jump that high in the game
Psycho Warrior wrote:I STILL say it doesn't matter, a bullet to the head kills someone.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Besides you really didn't argue anything about Duke. I don't care if in FF7 bullets just result in numbers, the fact is Duke's going to draw and fire at least 15 times before Cloud can lunge or cast a spell.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Admittedly Cloud could use that blade as shield
Psycho Warrior wrote:but I'm having a hard time seeing him win.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote: Also, he got shot in the head like five minutes into Advent Children, all it did was leave a small scar.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:Its been 10 years since I played the game, and to be fair the whole 'absorbs skills and memories from a real soldier' thing is sketchy. he may have trained his whole life to be in SOLDIER but he was never accepted, and the method he was infused with jenova and mako was in a guy's basement, effectively meaning he's a poor man's soldier.
Except it was stated that after four years of being experimented on, his fractured psyche used bits of Zack (Zack was constantly talking to Cloud to try and pull him out of his catatonic state) as well as false, idealized memories to repair itself. It was also explained that Jenova cells can absorb and transmit memories, which is why Tifa didn't point out that half of Cloud's recollection of the Nibelheim Incident shouldn't have included him.
And "a guy's basement" was the lab under Shinra Mansion, and where they made Sephiroth.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:Also, you're making the argument that because they couldn't jump that high in the game
Pay attention here: I said they COULD jump that high in the game. Half of Cloud's limit breaks involve him jumping over twice his height into the air, and typically staying there for a moment. What I SAID was, because of graphical limitations, they couldn't render fights like in Advent Children.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:I STILL say it doesn't matter, a bullet to the head kills someone.
Didn't kill Cloud. It also didn't kill him when a round from the same gun was shown passing right through his torso. That just made him mad.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:Besides you really didn't argue anything about Duke. I don't care if in FF7 bullets just result in numbers, the fact is Duke's going to draw and fire at least 15 times before Cloud can lunge or cast a spell.
Assuming Cloud stands still and doesn't dodge or counter attack or block or do anything. Or NOT do anything; this is Cloud, taking absurd amounts of damage is one of his specialties
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Psycho Warrior wrote:4 years in the tubes (and if I must spell it out, yes I know they probably weren't in the tubes 24/7), it makes me wonder how much the good doctor gave them to speak.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Secondly I was under the impression that it was the jenova that shattered his mind.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Regardless, Duke's got several advantages mentally. The biggest are that he's singularly driven to win at any cost. Piss him off he comes at you full force, wants to kill you, none of that good, honorable crap. Also unlike cloud he's extremely confidant in his abilities and faculties. Cloud's been proven to mope and worry a fair bit, Duke doesn't. A second's hesitation can kill in a fight.
Psycho Warrior wrote:So... what? Would that argument hold true if someone put 50 chain gun rounds in his face?
Psycho Warrior wrote:I was assuming a veteran F'Battler like you would place them both on a fair and even field there.
Psycho Warrior wrote:As for Cloud "Just standing there" that's pretty insulting. Going by FF7 it takes Cloud roughly 3 seconds to charge a spell and another second for it to start.
Psycho Warrior wrote:I've also got to say Cloud doesn't seem to wear a lot of kevlar.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Hubris isn't an advantage.
Shadowman wrote:Knowing Cloud? Probably.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:As for Cloud "Just standing there" that's pretty insulting. Going by FF7 it takes Cloud roughly 3 seconds to charge a spell and another second for it to start.
Certain gameplay mechanics (Typically the ones behind turn-based or ATB-based RPGs) have no bearing on a Fantasy Battle. Because if that's the case, then Duke is incapable of looking up or down.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Shadowman wrote:Hubris isn't an advantage.
Neither is hesitation. Besides, Duke's confidant, not stupid. Sephiroth was a victim of Hubris, if he had simply got on with his plans and killed Cloud instead of messing with him the whole game then he would have won.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Shadowman wrote:Knowing Cloud? Probably.
If that's your excuse then why not bring the Goku threads back? Or the Mr.T threads?
Psycho Warrior wrote:Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:As for Cloud "Just standing there" that's pretty insulting. Going by FF7 it takes Cloud roughly 3 seconds to charge a spell and another second for it to start.
Certain gameplay mechanics (Typically the ones behind turn-based or ATB-based RPGs) have no bearing on a Fantasy Battle. Because if that's the case, then Duke is incapable of looking up or down.
Bravo sir on missing my point once again. Even in the Advent children, where magic manifested as blobs of colored ki force they took a little while to fire.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Cloud needs a free hand to use magic, and a sword like his needs both hands to be used effectively even with the ass-backwards anime rules we're playing with.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Duke only needs one to fire a pistol, and even so his sword's not going to be able to shield him from some of the alien weapons or the RPG Duke has at his disposal. And we haven't even touched Duke's jetpack. Plus: Shrink weapon. The guy could easily make that sword a toothpick. XD
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Regardless, you seem to be blobbing Cloud's different incarnations into one character.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Also, if such great leaps are simply because of Clouds 'super strength and skill' then what's keeping Duke from doing the same?
Psycho Warrior wrote:This fight either has to take place on neutral ground for it to make sense. Either the physics of cloud's world or Duke's would apply, or they'd have to be plunked in the middle of ours. Cloud can't jump 19 stories, and Duke can't run at 60MPH.
Psycho Warrior wrote:(and the spikey haired emo)
Psycho Warrior wrote:Regardless, without his sword Cloud's fighting skills are likely sub-standard compared to his swordplay.
Psycho Warrior wrote:(( Bonus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96PdhHZC7j8 ))
Stormwolf wrote:Duke, Cloud never did anything this awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgRRweh1jsg
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:Regardless, you seem to be blobbing Cloud's different incarnations into one character.
They ARE one character. A sequel doesn't suddenly mean it's a brand new character.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:Also, if such great leaps are simply because of Clouds 'super strength and skill' then what's keeping Duke from doing the same?
Probably because Duke wasn't made into a super soldier and was never shown making those jumps, whereas Cloud was shown doing it in both the original game AND Advent Children.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:This fight either has to take place on neutral ground for it to make sense. Either the physics of cloud's world or Duke's would apply, or they'd have to be plunked in the middle of ours. Cloud can't jump 19 stories, and Duke can't run at 60MPH.
Who's to say Cloud they can only do that because of altered physics in their own worlds?
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:(and the spikey haired emo)
There you go, using that word again like you know what it means. Fun fact: Cloud is no more emo than Spock.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:Regardless, without his sword Cloud's fighting skills are likely sub-standard compared to his swordplay.
Swordplay IS a fighting skill.
Shadowman wrote:There was that time Cloud killed Bahamut with Climhazard, without needing to use a gun.
Interesting fact: Gordon Freeman was able to fight through TWO alien invasions with no prior weapons training, no military training, just a dozen or so real-life guns, only a couple sci-fi guns, a suit of armor increasing his resistance to bullets, and a crowbar. The Marine fought off TWO invasions from Hell with no more than seven guns and a suit of armor that didn't even cover his chest. The FEAR Point Man spent a few days running through Fairport from two armies and a pair of crazed psychics carrying no more than three guns and his ability to see things in slow-mo. Isaac Clark fought through two Necromorph outbreaks with nothing more than a space suit, a few unmodified power tools, and crippling insanity. What I'm saying is, nothing Duke has ever done is even the slightest bit impressive if you've played other games. He's just a semi-retarded, juiced-up, narcissist who won't shut the hell up.
Shadowman wrote:EDIT: Theory on the fight:
Cloud, using the Fusion Sword, using the combined form to shield against Duke's wasting of ammo, and detaches one of the side blades, and begins rushing at Duke. He gets close enough, and uses the detached blade to cut Duke's head off.
Alternate: Duke launches an RPG round, Cloud launches Blade Beam, taking out the projectile and its source in one hit.
Second alternate: While Duke reloads or switches guns, Cloud launches Omnislash Ver.6, and Duke is rendered into a fine paste.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Shadowman wrote:They ARE one character. A sequel doesn't suddenly mean it's a brand new character.
Nope, sorry. A character in a game and in a movie are always different. To me its like saying G1 cartoon Grimlock is the same as G1 comic Grimlock.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Oh you mean that WASN'T because of the graphical limitations of the game and otherwise if he didn't make those weird and awkward jumps the game would be unbeatable?
Psycho Warrior wrote:Fine, Cloud is a scene... here's another word for you: Fanboy.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Maybe that was a poor choice of words on my part but you should have been able to get my meaning from past posts. I guess I'll have to repeat myself; Cloud has never been shown using his fists or feet to great effect. Unarmed Duke would tear him in half.
Psycho Warrior wrote:RSo what you're saying is you're coming into this fight with pre-conceptions and not actually looking at who's the better fighter.
Psycho Warrior wrote:You're just arguing 'Cloud is better, shut up!' I'm actually looking at the weapons, I haven't made excuses for duke or cloud, I've been examining what their abilities and weapons are.
Psycho Warrior wrote:Finally, you're saying that taking on a whole army of evil creatures isn't impressive? I guess that means Master chief and Ryu Hayabusa aren't that cool either.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Psycho Warrior wrote:((I will admit this whole thread I've had this boss fight in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSL9jaDdyFE ))
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Psycho Warrior wrote:((I will admit this whole thread I've had this boss fight in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSL9jaDdyFE ))
What game is that? (The company that made it must have stopped paying attention to JRPGs because all of them DO use full voice acting nowadays, except ones on handheld at least) Also, that room looks remarkably like one of the first areas in Metal Gear Solid 1. Probably not a coincidence.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Cloud, because as much as I hate FF games, they are at least well made games.
The Happy Locust wrote:Effort is not power, knowledge is not power, even money is not power. True power is not caring that you f*ck up all the time.
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