The Energon Pub

Jeysie wrote:I'm not upset at the act of being called an elitist snob, it's the mentality some people have that thinking there are standards of quality to aspire to outside of personal tastes means you're an elitist snob that makes me shake my head.

I really would love to see an example where that's happening on this site.

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:Wow here's an internet first! Two moderators getting into a flamewar...

It's not a flamewar, they are two TF fans having a discussion.

Burn wrote:

First Gen wrote:Nostalgic homage I'm all for, but just throwing something in there to say "Hey we put this in there for you" is on its own level of patronization, which is pretty much what this entire movie did

And yet Animated did the exact same thing constantly and no one had a problem with that.

It had better writting and directing than ROTF did in my veiw.

But you agree though that Animated threw in "easter eggs" for the old fans in a "Hey we put this in there for you" way?

Burn wrote:

Jeysie wrote:I'm not upset at the act of being called an elitist snob, it's the mentality some people have that thinking there are standards of quality to aspire to outside of personal tastes means you're an elitist snob that makes me shake my head.

I really would love to see an example where that's happening on this site.

Um... *points at just about every single post Caelus has made in this thread, for starters*

And are you being forced to read it?

As I said, if you have a problem with someone's posts, use the "Report this post" button, or, just simply ignore it.

Burn wrote:

tile_mcgillus wrote:

G.B. Blackrock wrote:Uhhh, most of us have, explicitly and repeatedly, been doing precisely this: acknowledging that people can, and indeed have a right to, enjoy this movie. Nor have I seen ANYONE call someone a "moron," an "idiot," or in any other way insult the intelligence of someone simply for liking TF2.

Your post would seem to be nothing more than an attempt to shut down this conversation. Nice try, but no thanks.

You did say, "you are not unintelligent but you lack formal education"... which definitely felt dismissive and possibly derogatory. You didnt call anyone an idiot... in those words...

What I was trying to say was: its not a conversation if no one is listening to each other...

Its masturbatory.

Trust me, I didn't take anything G.B. said as dismissive or even remotely derogatory. Mind you, I wouldn't say I lack formal education either as I did year 12 twice. I was just one of those kids who learnt in his own way, not the way set down by the education board.

And there are a LOT of people who don't do well in school but go on to achieve a lot of things in their lives, if I recall from what I read, Ebert is one of them.

This is from his Wikipedia page: Ebert received his undergraduate degree from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, where he was editor of The Daily Illini[9] and member of the Phi Delta Theta fraternity. One of the first movie reviews he ever wrote was a review of La dolce vita, published in The Daily Illini in October 1961.[10]

Ebert did his graduate study in English at the University of Cape Town under a Rotary International Fellowship. He was a doctoral candidate in English at the University of Chicago. He was a Sun-Times feature reporter when the film critic position was offered to him by the Sun-Times.[9]

Man that guy worked!

Have no idea where I read that he didn't go to university then!

Not that it really makes a difference, because I still don't listen to critic reviews regardless of who writes them.

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:

Burn wrote:

tile_mcgillus wrote:

G.B. Blackrock wrote:Uhhh, most of us have, explicitly and repeatedly, been doing precisely this: acknowledging that people can, and indeed have a right to, enjoy this movie. Nor have I seen ANYONE call someone a "moron," an "idiot," or in any other way insult the intelligence of someone simply for liking TF2.

Your post would seem to be nothing more than an attempt to shut down this conversation. Nice try, but no thanks.

You did say, "you are not unintelligent but you lack formal education"... which definitely felt dismissive and possibly derogatory. You didnt call anyone an idiot... in those words...

What I was trying to say was: its not a conversation if no one is listening to each other...

Its masturbatory.

Trust me, I didn't take anything G.B. said as dismissive or even remotely derogatory. Mind you, I wouldn't say I lack formal education either as I did year 12 twice. I was just one of those kids who learnt in his own way, not the way set down by the education board.

And there are a LOT of people who don't do well in school but go on to achieve a lot of things in their lives, if I recall from what I read, Ebert is one of them.

This is from his Wikipedia page: Ebert received his undergraduate degree from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, where he was editor of The Daily Illini[9] and member of the Phi Delta Theta fraternity. One of the first movie reviews he ever wrote was a review of La dolce vita, published in The Daily Illini in October 1961.[10]

Ebert did his graduate study in English at the University of Cape Town under a Rotary International Fellowship. He was a doctoral candidate in English at the University of Chicago. He was a Sun-Times feature reporter when the film critic position was offered to him by the Sun-Times.[9]

Man that guy worked!

If Ebert's own words in one of the recent "anti-TF2" posts are to be believed, it's not that he didn't go to college. It's that he never took a degree that was in a field relevant to being a movie critic.

First Gen wrote:25 Years, Multiple lines of figures, numerous OTFCC/ Botcon panels by HASBRO and most of this site are in complete disagreement with what you said. But hey if that's how you feel, good for you.

I didn't realise you spoke for the site. And perhaps HASBRO are just trying to sell their product? Longevity of a brand doesn't mean that people 'deserve' something. Regardless, meh.

First Gen wrote:Apparently so many people care about Ebert's review that he felt it necessary to post a response to the masses. This is just evident fact.

Not disputing that. What I am disputing is whether people SHOULD care. Answer = they shouldn't.

Burn wrote:As I said, if you have a problem with someone's posts, use the "Report this post" button, or, just simply ignore it.

He's not breaking the rules, so why would I report him? The guy's entitled to have and state his opinion, and I'm entitled to say I dislike it and why. Cause, y'know, people disagree sometimes.

neliz wrote:Guess what. most people aren't interested in robots kicking each-others ass.

That's why its one of the most successful movies of the year?

Jeysie wrote:

Burn wrote:As I said, if you have a problem with someone's posts, use the "Report this post" button, or, just simply ignore it.

He's not breaking the rules, so why would I report him? The guy's entitled to have and state his opinion, and I'm entitled to say I dislike it and why. Cause, y'know, people disagree sometimes.

Really? OMG! I never realised that!

No seriously, it's come down to you just diagreeing with him when your initial response was getting depressed over it all?

Or am I just missing something here?

Burn wrote:No seriously, it's come down to you just diagreeing with him when your initial response was getting depressed over it all?

Or am I just missing something here?

It's an opinion I disagree with and find depressing. But oddly enough I don't feel compelled to report someone to the moderators for merely expressing an opinion I don't like, so I find your suggestion that I do so a little odd.

Odd? Not at all.

From what you had said it sounded like you were depressed, or at the very least upset at someone's comments. It's only logical therefore, and as a Moderator, to suggest you report someone if their posts are upsetting you.

See? Not odd at all. Fair advice given how much you had said at that point.

But now that I fully understand, yeah, I recommend just stepping back and taking a breather, there's much more important things in life to get upset over than someone disagreeing with you over a movie.

Burn wrote:But now that I fully understand, yeah, I recommend just stepping back and taking a breather, there's much more important things in life to get upset over than someone disagreeing with you over a movie.

But... but... but... this is disagreeing over the Internet.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:But... but... but... this is disagreeing over the Internet.

You disagree with me one more time and i'm removing you as a friend on Facebook!

Burn wrote:But now that I fully understand, yeah, I recommend just stepping back and taking a breather, there's much more important things in life to get upset over than someone disagreeing with you over a movie.

1. This isn't the only forum I've read with people expressing that sort of opinion.

2. Not the first time I've heard people complain about critiques or how there's no such thing as good/bad quality in creative work, either. Especially when it comes to writing... writing is often treated as the lowest peg on the creative totem pole in terms of people not caring about good writing and/or thinking that "anyone can write". One gets kind of tired of hearing that after a while.

This wouldn't be the first time I've dealt with people thinking that it's not worth caring about creative quality instead of just accepting any old trash, so, no, I'm not getting "upset over someone disagreeing with me over a movie".

Especially seeing as how I'm a writer (and singer), so, uh. I'm weird for caring and talking about something I do and study? 'K, if ya say so.

Way to totally miss the point, basically.

If anyone's missing the point it's you.

Your initial comment, the one that I originally picked up on that started this little discussion between you and I was you saying you were depressed over what was being said about this movie.

I suggested you take a step back and re-analyse things as it's "just a movie", simply because it's my personal belief that it is "just a movie" and there's much more important things in the world to be worrying about than "just a movie".

You then went on to explain that certain posts were "upsetting" you. I then suggested that you report them, or again, take a step back and simply ignore them.

I also never called you weird. Those are YOUR words, please don't be trying to claim I said something when I clearly didn't.

Nor am I saying you shouldn't care. You're entitled to care. I have NEVER said people shouldn't care. So i'm not missing the point at all.

The point i'm trying to make, and the point YOU seem to be missing is that people ARE entitled to care, they're entitled to their opinion, but allowing the opinions made by others on the internet to affect you in a negative manner, well that, that is just pointless.

See what i'm trying to say? CARE for your passions, just don't let the opinions of faceless people on a message board affect it.

Burn wrote:Your initial comment, the one that I originally picked up on that started this little discussion between you and I was you saying you were depressed over what was being said about this movie.

Well, more like I was depressed by people who think there's no such thing as being able to care/about judge quality in creativity, which sentiment happened to come out in this instance while talking about this movie.

Burn wrote:I suggested you take a step back and re-analyse things as it's "just a movie", simply because it's my personal belief that it is "just a movie" and there's much more important things in the world to be worrying about than "just a movie".

Except that it's not the movie itself that's bothering me.

Burn wrote:You then went on to explain that certain posts were "upsetting" you. I then suggested that you report them, or again, take a step back and simply ignore them.

Except that I was troubled that people have a certain perception, not because they expressed that perception in a way that broke the rules. And when I come across a troubling perception, I find it more fruitful to try and discuss it, not stick my fingers in my ears and go lalalala to hide from anything that doesn't make me happy.

Burn wrote:See what i'm trying to say? CARE for your passions, just don't let the opinions of faceless people on a message board affect it.

Except that I've heard the sentiment from far more than just the people on this board, including from people offline. I think the problem is that you're assuming this board here is the only time I've ever discussed the matter, or that I have no experience with creativity outside of TF, or some such.

Essentially, I think you're projecting things onto me that I'm not actually feeling and/or don't actually apply.

Jeysie wrote:I think the problem is that you're assuming this board here is the only time I've ever discussed the matter, or that I have no experience with creativity outside of TF, or some such.

Essentially, I think you're projecting things onto me that I'm not actually feeling and/or don't actually apply.

You yourself have said that you've been "depressed" over comments made. That clearly is stating a feeling. I'm not assuming anything. What i'm saying is simple.

"If someone says something to you in a negative manner over something you're passionate about, don't let it upset you".

Now you could walk away, or you could defend it. Whatever you do, just don't let it upset you. Plain and simple.

That's not assuming anything, whether you discuss it just here, at other sites, or face to face. It applies to everything.

It's a lesson in life, there are going to be people that disagree with you on something, or even go so far as to attack you over something you're passionate about, you can defend yourself, but NEVER EVER let them get under your skin.

That's all i've ever been trying to say.

And i've also never said you had no experience with creativity, in fact, I fail to see why that's even relevant to the discussion. If anyone's projecting it's you taking my words, reading far into them too much and coming to the conclusion that I have some opinion of you as a person and that it's a negative one.

But if you want my thoughts on you, I would have to say that you seem like a pretty decent chick, but that is something I can only ascertain from the few conversations you and I have had.

Such is the joy of the internets, where the written word doesn't often convey the correct tones and inflections which often result in confusion. What an advancement in communication technology!

Burn wrote:It's a lesson in life, there are going to be people that disagree with you on something, or even go so far as to attack you over something you're passionate about, you can defend yourself, but NEVER EVER let them get under your skin.

I think that having an emotional reaction to someone else's stance on things just makes us, well, human. Am I going to go weep and jump off a bridge because of this? No. But I see no reason to deny that I wish people cared more about quality in creativity, and that it bothers me when people don't. That seems like a pretty normal reaction to me, rather than being completely unemotional.

But this is getting way off-topic. XP

My god. You honestly do not understand what Burn is trying to say. He is actually trying to give advise that could help you out. You said some things about the movie bothered you to a high degree. Depressing, upsetting etc. Basicly, why get so bent out of shape over these things that you have absolutely ZERO CONTROL OVER!!!! It's pointless to do that, so why give yourself an ulcer about it. That kind of crap makes people go crazy and shoot themselves in the face.

Sorry. This thread is just unbelieveable.

Jeysie wrote:I think that having an emotional reaction to someone else's stance on things just makes us, well, human. Am I going to go weep and jump off a bridge because of this? No.

True! I won't disagree with you on that. It's when emotions take control and we end up with, as you said, people jumping off bridges or saying how they want to kill Michael Bay for raping their childhood. (Which we all know happened with the first movie!)

But I see no reason to deny that I wish people cared more about quality in creativity, and that it bothers me when people don't. That seems like a pretty normal reaction to me, rather than being completely unemotional.

Yes and no. People are entitled to think and feel how they see fit. Do I have personal feelings regarding the negative reaction to the movie? Sure, I find it disappointing, but I accept that people are going to think differently from me and move on. Doesn't make me un-emotional, it's just me being laid back and enjoying things the way I do.

But this is getting way off-topic. XP

Welcome to Seibertron.com, land of off-topicness!

Prime Riblet wrote:Sorry. This thread is just unbelieveable.

Just be glad we aren't have a discussion on the movie I saw tonight, Bruno.

If anyone thought ROTF was bad, next to Bruno it looks like Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, The Sound of Music and the Godfather all rolled into one.

Actually Bruno was funnier- and more clever.

Baby in a box beats out Devastator's balls any day of the week.