viruscarnage wrote:I went back and watched the Unicron Trilogy and I don't really understand the link between Energon and Cybertron, could someone clear this up for me?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:In all honesty, Cybertron was supposed to be another sequel from its conception. GONZO either missed that memo or chose to ignore it when they made the cartoon into being a standalone series. It wasn't America tampering with a Japanese work so much as it was Japan mucking up what America had originally planned for the series in the first place. After all, it was Aaron Archer who drew up and outlined the earliest ideas for it on the so-called "Napkin of Revelation".
Oh, don't get me wrong. I totally get that a lot of things still don't add up in spite of what efforts the dubbers and Fun Pub attempted to mend the break that GONZO caused. But, to be frank, once I better understood what happened behind-the-scenes and took into account both the "memory problems" explanation Fun Pub cooked up and the "ten years later" setting that Hasbro declared in the original Ask Vector Prime, it made watching the show much easier for me, barring the occasional hiccup that would still pop up from time to time, but which was inevitable given GONZO's continuity breakage.o.supreme wrote:Fair enough, but even when you watch Cybertron from the beginning there are so many things that don't match up with how Energon ended, and so many questions left unanswered, its what actually makes Cybertron nearly unwatchable to me, unless I consider it disconnected, I know many think it is the best animated/written of the *unicron trilogy*, but is disjointedness' alone makes it a very tough watch for me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Now, that surprises me a bit. Was it really Takara as a whole or just GONZO (the company that made the cartoon) who didn't get the memo? I can understand GONZO missing that point but Takara too? I mean, they helped make the toys and really couldn't tell that Dreadrock, Exillion, First Aid, and Guardshell were all supposed to be a new, updated versions of Jetfire/Skyfire, Hot Rod/Hot Shot, Ratchet, and Landmine? (Yes, I am using the Japanese names in this case.) They each had the same faces as their predecessors, even; to say nothing of Galaxy Convoy, Master Megatron, and Starscream. Was Takara really just that blind?ScottyP wrote:Anyways, I asked Mr. Archer the "chicken and egg" version of the Cybertron production question at last year's Botcon. It was essentially the short version of what Sabrblade posted - Hasbro always intended for it to fictionally be a sequel to Energon, Takara somehow didn't get the memo, and the rest is history.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Oh, now I see. You were saying that you were the person who asked that question during the Q&A session of that panel. I thought I that you meant that you had approached Mr. Archer at the con to ask him about it in person. My mistake.ScottyP wrote:It was at the panel and I paraphrased what I recall of the response I do know that Gonzo was not specifically mentioned.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Oh, now I see. You were saying that you were the person who asked that question during the Q&A session of that panel. I thought I that you meant that you had approached Mr. Archer at the con to ask him about it in person. My mistake.ScottyP wrote:It was at the panel and I paraphrased what I recall of the response I do know that Gonzo was not specifically mentioned.
Looking back at the notes I took at that panel, I do see your question and the response he gave that I jotted down, in which I now see that he did mention only Takara. I guess I didn't think much of it at the time when he gave that answer in the panel.
Still though, one would think that the people who were making the toys would have recognized the similarities between the Galaxy Force characters and the characters of Micron Densetsu and Super Link that they were clearly supposed to resemble, right? I mean, the alternative just sounds baffling to me.
Wouldn't they have at least kept the names, then, were that they case?Kurona wrote:Wasn't Takara's thinking that it was supposed to be a reboot of ML and SL? In that case the toys resembling those characters would make about as much sense as any new series' Optimus Prime resembling previous Optimus Primes - it's a new version of a previous series' character.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Wouldn't they have at least kept the names, then, were that they case?Kurona wrote:Wasn't Takara's thinking that it was supposed to be a reboot of ML and SL? In that case the toys resembling those characters would make about as much sense as any new series' Optimus Prime resembling previous Optimus Primes - it's a new version of a previous series' character.
I mean, they didn't just change the names to something slightly different like they did with "Hot Rod" and "Jetfire" in MD to "Skyfire" and "Hot Shot" in SL. They made all new, completely dissimilar names from the ground up: "Dreadrock" and "Exillion", respectively.
I wish we could get an interview with someone who was in on the Takara side of things at the time.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Therefore, why are more people willing to view Masterforce and Victory, which have barely any ties to the G1 cartoon, as acceptable successors to the G1 cartoon, but not the same for Cybertron as a successor to Armada and Energon? If it's a matter of how long after the G1 cartoon Masterforce and Victory took place that helps them make sense in people's eyes, Cybertron was set a full decade after Energon, while Masterforce was set roughly around that same amount of years after G1 (considering how the Japanese version of season 3 took place in 2010 instead of 2006) and Victory being in 2025 would put it not too far off from when Masterforce itself was set.
Funny you should mention Rescue Bots's connection with the other shows, as Blurr's debut episode in RID has him recall Sideswipe's previous Rescue Bots appearance, ("What's up, bud? Been a while since we took down that cyclone, huh?"), acknowledge his new appearance to Sideswipe ("I wasn't sure you'd recognize me. Like the new look?") and Sideswipe make the first direct, unambiguous mention of the Rescue Bots in the RID cartoon ("Hey, some of you don't know Blurr, here. He's with the Rescue Bots from Griffin Rock."). And later, in Blurr's departing episode, he makes an open mention of Heatwave ("I'd love to stick around and help, but I better get back to my Rescue Team, before Heatwave blows a gasket."). The continuity between the shows is growing stronger.o.supreme wrote:RiD15 - I do not fault the animation change. TF Prime looked Beautiful, but I understand how expensive it was to produce and the idea of maintaining such a series for so long could not be done indefinitely (unless your Disney evidently ) . The tonal change was a little jarring at first, but I've come to accept it. I can respect how this fits into the aligned continuity. Rescue Bots is a whole other situation. I just kind of see this as being told from a small child's perspective, which is what it was intended for. I mean I would not expect to see Megatron or Unicron on Rescue Bots, nor would I expect to see Mr. Pettypaws on TF Prime. Rid15 is kind of a neutral ground however where anything can happen.
Wait, who besides Megatron, Starscream, and Sideways was back from the dead?o.supreme wrote:I do agree that Energon was a pretty faithful follow up to Armada, despite going from hand-drawn to cell shading in animating the TFs themselves, there was a lot of background explanation in the beginning and dots connecting you to where everyone had been during the 10 year gap between series, and what was happening moving forward. Cybertron had none of that, characters appearing from the dead without explanation, new ones appearing without explanation, the TF's not being recognized on earth, having to be "robots in disguise" (despite having whole cities and working with earths governments in the previous series...) it just didn't make sense, which is why I actually rate it as the bottom tier of the Unicron *triloy* (I even hate using that term...) which I know is not popular.
What about the G-2 fiction (barring the one standalone manga issue that was out of continuity with the cartoon)?o.supreme wrote:I often in my own head canon wonder what happened between Operation Combination & Beast Wars (to ME that is the "3 Centuries" Black Arachnia refers to- the last known event of one animated series world, to the next.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Save for all these things that were even in the original Galaxy Force version:o.supreme wrote:With Cybertron, other than a few passing references to Unicron there is no connection.
The voice I'll give you (because the dubbers wanted a new voice for him, for some reason), but his personality really wasn't all that different, what with Jetfire's original cockiness from Armada having grown less and less across the events of Energon, with Jetfire by the end of that show being as ordinary as Average Joes come.o.supreme wrote:Jetfire's personality (and voice) are completely different,
At least his was familiar with how he was in Armada, which frankly made him much more fun and interesting in both that show and Cybertron than he ever was in Energon.o.supreme wrote:same with Hot Shot.
At the very least, that was something. Galaxy Force's reason behind the black hole was the destruction of some nameless god of evil who was pretty much Unicron in all but name, anyway.o.supreme wrote:In fact I cringe every time when the explanation of the Black Hole coming form the destruction of Unicron is given and Overhaul says something like "Yeah we kicked his giant butt" or some ridiculous thing... and I'm saying to myself..."and where were you in that series?...oh yeah, you weren't"
I know there was some explanation given by Hasbro somewhere, but I can't seem to track it down.o.supreme wrote:Megatron & Starscream just appear without explanation after having been destroyed at the end of Energon.
Exacly how much of humanity knew of the Transformers, exactly?o.supreme wrote:Also the Autobots are back to "Robots in Disguise" on Earth? Did the whole population of earth somehow forget the war they were involved with 10 years prior? The huge flippin cities the Transformers had built on their own planet?
Wait, you thought that was literally Energon Hot Shot with him? No no, that was just an image of him above Kicker.o.supreme wrote:--Also the fact that the last episode in the CN version shoehorned in drawings of an older Carlos,Rad,Alexis & Kicker doesn't help, (also the laughable moment when Hotshot apparently from his past Energon self is there as well)...a few random drawings at the last moment does not fix a continuity break.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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