The Energon Pub

Renne wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Omega Supreme is one robot that transforms into a rocket, a tank, and a base. RotF Devastator is one robot that transforms into a bunch of construction vehicles.

One robot who transforms into one rocket or one tank or one base. Not a whole bunch.

He transforms into all three at the same time, he's not a quadruple changer.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

Renne wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Omega Supreme is one robot that transforms into a rocket, a tank, and a base. RotF Devastator is one robot that transforms into a bunch of construction vehicles.

One robot who transforms into one rocket or one tank or one base. Not a whole bunch.

He transforms into all three at the same time, he's not a quadruple changer.

Yes but this is clearly NOT the same as a combiner. Okay? Okay. Glad we got that sorted.

Wait, so if Rampage is red and going after Sam - what is the yellow transformer that forms Devastator's leg? In the official toy Rampage forms one of the legs. I am so confused....lol

DLove wrote:Wait, so if Rampage is red and going after Sam - what is the yellow transformer that forms Devastator's leg? In the official toy Rampage forms one of the legs. I am so confused....lol

Rampage is red in the movie. His toys are all yellow.

In the movie, there are two each Constructicon (except for Scavenger and Overload). The ones that have their own robot modes are all named individually. And they each have a counterpart that forms a part of Devastator.

Long Haul, Mixmaster, Scrapper, and Rampage each fought by themselves; and Hightower was killed by the others to be used for spare parts for Megs' ressurrection. And each of them had a counterpart that formed a part of Devastator. And each combiner counterpart went unnamed in the movie.

It is only the toys that give names to the combiner versions, and this is just to help identify who each piece resembles.

The only exceptions to this are Scavenger and Overload, as there were only one of each in the movie, and they were both only components of Devastator.

And despite popular belief, Demolishor is NOT the robot counterpart of Scavenger. While Demolishor's toy is red, the movie made it clear that Demolishor is white and Scavenger is red.

Sabrblade wrote:

DLove wrote:Wait, so if Rampage is red and going after Sam - what is the yellow transformer that forms Devastator's leg? In the official toy Rampage forms one of the legs. I am so confused....lol

Rampage is red in the movie. His toys are all yellow.

In the movie, there are two each Constructicon (except for Scavenger and Overload). The ones that have their own robot modes are all named individually. And they each have a counterpart that forms a part of Devastator.

Long Haul, Mixmaster, Scrapper, and Rampage each fought by themselves; and Hightower was killed by the others to be used for spare parts for Megs' ressurrection. And each of them had a counterpart that formed a part of Devastator. And each combiner counterpart went unnamed in the movie.

It is only the toys that give names to the combiner versions, and this is just to help identify who each piece resembles.

The only exceptions to this are Scavenger and Overload, as there were only one of each in the movie, and they were both only components of Devastator.

And despite popular belief, Demolishor is NOT the robot counterpart of Scavenger. While Demolishor's toy is red, the movie made it clear that Demolishor is white and Scavenger is red.

This seems really odd, and not very well spelled out in the movie. Is this a confirmed fact of the characters within the movie or just a theory we are trying to make up to cover up for that oversight? Again, I did love the movie even with the flaws and enjoy talking about it with you people here. Glad I found this forum.

Renne wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

Renne wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Omega Supreme is one robot that transforms into a rocket, a tank, and a base. RotF Devastator is one robot that transforms into a bunch of construction vehicles.

One robot who transforms into one rocket or one tank or one base. Not a whole bunch.

He transforms into all three at the same time, he's not a quadruple changer.

Yes but this is clearly NOT the same as a combiner. Okay? Okay. Glad we got that sorted.

I know, they're alt modes are multiple vehicles. Neither of them are combiners.

NEW PLOT HOLE!!!

i dont know if anyone had said this but here i go:

If only a prime can kill a prime, how come Megatron kills Optimus Prime?

Sonic Wing wrote:NEW PLOT HOLE!!!

i dont know if anyone had said this but here i go:

If only a prime can kill a prime, how come Megatron kills Optimus Prime?

No, it was "only a Prime can defeat The Fallen".

As for how Megs did it, he snuck up from behind and stabbed him in the back.

This is such an immensely fun thread, I registered just to play. So forgive any nOObness in my replies.

Ragnorok64 wrote:How is Glenn Morshower still alive? The last movie mad a big deal of Lennox team being the only survivors of Blackout's attack yet Secret Service Dude from 24 is alive and promoted in this movie?

Now, I'd wondered that too, until I rewatched the first film tonight. The SecDef says "as far as we know, there were no survivors." So, while Lennox and co. are the first (and the most important, since they have evidence of the TF) to contact the States, we only hear about them. Others who eventually report in (like Morshower) aren't mentioned as surviving, cause they aren't as important.

How did they manage to fly the whole compliment of NESTS and Autobots around the entire world to Egypt so quickly and without Galloway noticing? That should have been a very long flight.

It was. Galloway slept through most of it. Being a pompous asshat takes a lot of energy.

How did Mikaela book a plane and fly 3000 miles in the time it took Sam to walk to his dorm and paint Cybertronian symbols on his walls? Heck how did she get through airport security with a highly suspicious metal container with a sentient robot in it?

It took Sam several hours to write all those symbols. How long would it take you to cover every surface in a room with bizarre symbols? Michaela took an express flight (ok, reaching with that last one).

Did Bumblebee drive across the country in like a day to be at Sam's college by the party on his first night there?

Sure, why not? No need to stop for pee breaks, food, or...well...anything for that matter. Also, he could have left the same time the Witwicky's flew out (I'm assuming they flew).

How could Leo be so entrenched with his tech setup at the dorms if he was only in college for "2 days?"

Leo arrived several days before the start of the term. Two days of actual classes, but several days (a week, maybe more?) of living in the dorm. Also, he had his two partners to help him set up.

In the first movie they were able to imprison Megatron by freezing him, they were also able to capture Bumble Bee by freezing him. In the second movie after they repaired Megatron he flew into space, why didn't he didn't 'shutdown' then? I'm assuming they used liquid nitrogen to freeze him which is approximately 77K and space is approximately 3K

syphonn wrote:In the first movie they were able to imprison Megatron by freezing him, they were also able to capture Bumble Bee by freezing him. In the second movie after they repaired Megatron he flew into space, why didn't he didn't 'shutdown' then? I'm assuming they used liquid nitrogen to freeze him which is approximately 77K and space is approximately 3K

Ah, carry over plotholes. My favourite.

It wasn't the cold, it was the build up of ice that incapacitated him.

In the arctic maybe, but what about at the S-7 base, also what of Bumble Bee, he wasn't encased in ice

Remember when Megatron thawed ice was flying off him. Bumblebee was never fully frozen, they kept blasting him with liquid nitrogen. That would cause the moisture in the air to form enough frost on him enough to slow him down.

So was it the layers of ice that kept him prisoner at S-7, or was it the deep freeze they had him in? Either way, if he was imprisoned in ice then it makes him that much weaker ... thwarted by ice; If it was just the temperature that kept him offline, again, why didn't he freeze when flying into space, right out of the water at that. Same question for Bumble Bee, what immobilized him? The temperature of the liquid nitrogen, or the layer of frost formed from cooling the moisture in the air around him?

optimus7211 wrote:why do all the primes have to sacrifice themselves to hide the cube, only to have it easily found by a four-person group of humans. then the fallen got a hold of it and since all the primes were dead optimus was left to fend for himself. but if they werent dead they could have handled this situation a lot easier

thats kind of a waste of primes

Apparently in the comic adaptation Jetfire informs Sam and co that " He (the Fallen) butchered his brother primes until only one remained. The last of the twelve sealed the matrix in a tomb constructed of their remains, fusing it shut with his own life essence"

I know in the film they all sacrifice themselves or something, but the comic gives a better explanation.

I remember reading a plothole that when Ravage, and the constructicons went down to revive Megs the submarine said there where five contacts, but after coming up there was six. Now that would make sense except Scalpel told them to "KILL ZEH LITTLE ONE!" aka High Tower.. so how could there now be six? Scalpel is a bit too small to show up on radar and probably hitched a ride anyway. So Long Haul+ Ravage + Rampage+ Mixmaster + High Tower + Megatron - High Tower = 6 Decipticons? Wait..
I also read a explanation that they revived Blackout and he flew off to Cybertron/ The Nemesis, so that was the sixth Con. But they never showed that so I dunno how that is true.

syphonn wrote:So was it the layers of ice that kept him prisoner at S-7, or was it the deep freeze they had him in? Either way, if he was imprisoned in ice then it makes him that much weaker ... thwarted by ice; If it was just the temperature that kept him offline, again, why didn't he freeze when flying into space, right out of the water at that. Same question for Bumble Bee, what immobilized him? The temperature of the liquid nitrogen, or the layer of frost formed from cooling the moisture in the air around him?

Like I said, this is a plothole from the first movie. You are not going to get an answer that you're happy with. Let it go.

The ice formed around all his moving parts, preventing him from moving. It's like wedging a wrench between 2 gears.

Renne wrote:

syphonn wrote:So was it the layers of ice that kept him prisoner at S-7, or was it the deep freeze they had him in? Either way, if he was imprisoned in ice then it makes him that much weaker ... thwarted by ice; If it was just the temperature that kept him offline, again, why didn't he freeze when flying into space, right out of the water at that. Same question for Bumble Bee, what immobilized him? The temperature of the liquid nitrogen, or the layer of frost formed from cooling the moisture in the air around him?

Like I said, this is a plothole from the first movie. You are not going to get an answer that you're happy with. Let it go.

Yeah, you're probably right

For that whole Devastator and the constructions and clones and stuff.

Its very possible (as previously stated) that Devastator is a single robot whose alt mode is a bunch of construction vechles, because he is too big to take any other form (i think i sad this on transformers wiki =P)

But, it is also probable that his individual body parts do transform into their own robot mode, but they all have a "hive-mind", sort of like Arcee...

I hope that makes sense

AutoShermatic wrote:Here is what I consider the biggest plot hole. The Fallen first arrived on earth 17,000 BC. He wants to use Earths sun to harvest energon, but the Primes stop him, hide the matrix. The Fallen obviously needs the cube to find the matrix, the Cube lands on Earth. So being that Megatron is the Fallen's disciple I am to assume that Megatron was sent to earth to find the cube so that the Fallen could find the Matrix. Well some things don't add up. Megatron was found by Sam's grandpa in 1897. The oldest form taken by the seekers was a Ford Model T so I assume they arrived around 1908. I take it that they were on Earth to look for the key? Either way, Megatron never returns and the humans build Hoover damn around the cube. My whole point of this is, Why did the Fallen wait from 1897 till 2007 to send the Decepticons to go get Megatron. In the first movie I believed it took them so long because they had to find him, but the Fallen would have known what planet Megatron was on. So the Fallen chills on Mars,or Saturn or whatever, waits over 100 years, and waits for the ONE BEING IN THE UNIVERSE THAT CAN STOP HIM ( Optimus Prime ) TO ARRIVE ON EARTH ,Only then does he kick his plan in motion. Not to mention the fact that he gave the humans 100 years to advance science and technology enough to adequately fight an alien invasion. Why didn't he just go to Earth with the decepticons when megatron first came up missing, he could have enslaved the planet, and had 100 years to search for the cube and the matrix before the Autobots even knew where they were. Someone please explain this to me.

I cracked up at that.

Well, didn't carbon dating say Megs and the cube both dated to B.C.? So The Fallen waited even longer than that. However they did have to find the location of Megs in hoover dam. Earth is pretty big for 7 decepticons to run around shouting Megatron, while they're up against all the technology humans have.

And perhaps the Ford guy had been there much longer, but he had to disguise himself due to the human population increease? But how could they not find the Matrix, or at least the cube? Wouldn't all the other bots with The Fallen (that were not primes) just have seen the other Primes walk off and turn themselves into a tomb? They obviously didn't kill the Fallen or anything, so did they just all wake up in the middle of the night while he was asleep and go turn into a tomb? So it's like The Fallen wakes, sees they took the Matrix, flies to another Planet, leaving the sun harvester behind, as well as the cube (was the cube just drifting in space? Didn't they at least look for it? ) So eventually the fallen sends cons to find the Matrix, then Megs to find the cube, and The Fallen waits and waits and waits and waits til Screamer comes back and says "Megatron died"??? And why did all the tomb-seekers just go dormant like Jetfire did? It seems after hundreds of years they just would've enslaved the human race instead of hiding and transforming every time a human comes like the toys in Toy Story. And what happened to the rest of the bots it showed in the beginning? They did cover the U.S., as shown by Wheelie when he points the lasers on the map. And there's bound to be more in other countries, more than enough to kill EVERYONE when they first came.

And how did the Primes have Optimus as a decendant if they were buried? He would've had to be "born" in the tomb.

It's too bad they just didn't land on Mars first, blow up the sun, then they never would've known there was life.

Sabrblade wrote:

Sonic Wing wrote:NEW PLOT HOLE!!!

i dont know if anyone had said this but here i go:

If only a prime can kill a prime, how come Megatron kills Optimus Prime?

No, it was "only a Prime can defeat The Fallen".

As for how Megs did it, he snuck up from behind and stabbed him in the back.

If Megs was Primes "Brother", shouldn't he be a Prime? He should've just blasted The Fallen's head off while he was sitting in that chair for 2000 years. Unless Prime was speaking metaphorically.

YRQRM0 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Sonic Wing wrote:NEW PLOT HOLE!!!

i dont know if anyone had said this but here i go:

If only a prime can kill a prime, how come Megatron kills Optimus Prime?

No, it was "only a Prime can defeat The Fallen".

As for how Megs did it, he snuck up from behind and stabbed him in the back.

If Megs was Primes "Brother", shouldn't he be a Prime? He should've just blasted The Fallen's head off while he was sitting in that chair for 2000 years. Unless Prime was speaking metaphorically.

Optimus is a direct decendent of the seven, Megs is not. While they may be bros, it would seem that the Prime inheritance was only passed to Optimus and not to Megatron.

YRQRM0 wrote:

AutoShermatic wrote:Here is what I consider the biggest plot hole. The Fallen first arrived on earth 17,000 BC. He wants to use Earths sun to harvest energon, but the Primes stop him, hide the matrix. The Fallen obviously needs the cube to find the matrix, the Cube lands on Earth. So being that Megatron is the Fallen's disciple I am to assume that Megatron was sent to earth to find the cube so that the Fallen could find the Matrix. Well some things don't add up. Megatron was found by Sam's grandpa in 1897. The oldest form taken by the seekers was a Ford Model T so I assume they arrived around 1908. I take it that they were on Earth to look for the key? Either way, Megatron never returns and the humans build Hoover damn around the cube. My whole point of this is, Why did the Fallen wait from 1897 till 2007 to send the Decepticons to go get Megatron. In the first movie I believed it took them so long because they had to find him, but the Fallen would have known what planet Megatron was on. So the Fallen chills on Mars,or Saturn or whatever, waits over 100 years, and waits for the ONE BEING IN THE UNIVERSE THAT CAN STOP HIM ( Optimus Prime ) TO ARRIVE ON EARTH ,Only then does he kick his plan in motion. Not to mention the fact that he gave the humans 100 years to advance science and technology enough to adequately fight an alien invasion. Why didn't he just go to Earth with the decepticons when megatron first came up missing, he could have enslaved the planet, and had 100 years to search for the cube and the matrix before the Autobots even knew where they were. Someone please explain this to me.

I cracked up at that.

Well, didn't carbon dating say Megs and the cube both dated to B.C.? So The Fallen waited even longer than that. However they did have to find the location of Megs in hoover dam. Earth is pretty big for 7 decepticons to run around shouting Megatron, while they're up against all the technology humans have.

And perhaps the Ford guy had been there much longer, but he had to disguise himself due to the human population increease? But how could they not find the Matrix, or at least the cube? Wouldn't all the other bots with The Fallen (that were not primes) just have seen the other Primes walk off and turn themselves into a tomb? They obviously didn't kill the Fallen or anything, so did they just all wake up in the middle of the night while he was asleep and go turn into a tomb? So it's like The Fallen wakes, sees they took the Matrix, flies to another Planet, leaving the sun harvester behind, as well as the cube (was the cube just drifting in space? Didn't they at least look for it? ) So eventually the fallen sends cons to find the Matrix, then Megs to find the cube, and The Fallen waits and waits and waits and waits til Screamer comes back and says "Megatron died"??? And why did all the tomb-seekers just go dormant like Jetfire did? It seems after hundreds of years they just would've enslaved the human race instead of hiding and transforming every time a human comes like the toys in Toy Story. And what happened to the rest of the bots it showed in the beginning? They did cover the U.S., as shown by Wheelie when he points the lasers on the map. And there's bound to be more in other countries, more than enough to kill EVERYONE when they first came.

And how did the Primes have Optimus as a decendant if they were buried? He would've had to be "born" in the tomb.

It's too bad they just didn't land on Mars first, blow up the sun, then they never would've known there was life.

You make a good point, what was The Fallen doing from the time the Primes hid the Cube until his appearance in the movie, it wasn't hidden that far from the chamber ... did he even look?

syphonn wrote:

YRQRM0 wrote:

AutoShermatic wrote:Here is what I consider the biggest plot hole. The Fallen first arrived on earth 17,000 BC. He wants to use Earths sun to harvest energon, but the Primes stop him, hide the matrix. The Fallen obviously needs the cube to find the matrix, the Cube lands on Earth. So being that Megatron is the Fallen's disciple I am to assume that Megatron was sent to earth to find the cube so that the Fallen could find the Matrix. Well some things don't add up. Megatron was found by Sam's grandpa in 1897. The oldest form taken by the seekers was a Ford Model T so I assume they arrived around 1908. I take it that they were on Earth to look for the key? Either way, Megatron never returns and the humans build Hoover damn around the cube. My whole point of this is, Why did the Fallen wait from 1897 till 2007 to send the Decepticons to go get Megatron. In the first movie I believed it took them so long because they had to find him, but the Fallen would have known what planet Megatron was on. So the Fallen chills on Mars,or Saturn or whatever, waits over 100 years, and waits for the ONE BEING IN THE UNIVERSE THAT CAN STOP HIM ( Optimus Prime ) TO ARRIVE ON EARTH ,Only then does he kick his plan in motion. Not to mention the fact that he gave the humans 100 years to advance science and technology enough to adequately fight an alien invasion. Why didn't he just go to Earth with the decepticons when megatron first came up missing, he could have enslaved the planet, and had 100 years to search for the cube and the matrix before the Autobots even knew where they were. Someone please explain this to me.

I cracked up at that.

Well, didn't carbon dating say Megs and the cube both dated to B.C.? So The Fallen waited even longer than that. However they did have to find the location of Megs in hoover dam. Earth is pretty big for 7 decepticons to run around shouting Megatron, while they're up against all the technology humans have.

And perhaps the Ford guy had been there much longer, but he had to disguise himself due to the human population increease? But how could they not find the Matrix, or at least the cube? Wouldn't all the other bots with The Fallen (that were not primes) just have seen the other Primes walk off and turn themselves into a tomb? They obviously didn't kill the Fallen or anything, so did they just all wake up in the middle of the night while he was asleep and go turn into a tomb? So it's like The Fallen wakes, sees they took the Matrix, flies to another Planet, leaving the sun harvester behind, as well as the cube (was the cube just drifting in space? Didn't they at least look for it? ) So eventually the fallen sends cons to find the Matrix, then Megs to find the cube, and The Fallen waits and waits and waits and waits til Screamer comes back and says "Megatron died"??? And why did all the tomb-seekers just go dormant like Jetfire did? It seems after hundreds of years they just would've enslaved the human race instead of hiding and transforming every time a human comes like the toys in Toy Story. And what happened to the rest of the bots it showed in the beginning? They did cover the U.S., as shown by Wheelie when he points the lasers on the map. And there's bound to be more in other countries, more than enough to kill EVERYONE when they first came.

And how did the Primes have Optimus as a decendant if they were buried? He would've had to be "born" in the tomb.

It's too bad they just didn't land on Mars first, blow up the sun, then they never would've known there was life.

You make a good point, what was The Fallen doing from the time the Primes hid the Cube until his appearance in the movie, it wasn't hidden that far from the chamber ... did he even look?

He was sealed away, trapped inside his sarcophagus.