The Energon Pub

Was watching the G1 Season 3 Ep: the Ultimate Weapon, and the Protectorbots form Defensor without Firstaid, yet in the season 2 Ep: Aerial Assult the Aerialbots cant combine into Superion because Fireflight is missing! What the F**k is up with that!?

Hasbro wanted to make sure kids bought all five Airialbots to maximize their profits, and showing that Superion couldn't be formed without all five airialbots was a good way of doing that .

It was probably different writers who wrote each episode, and they had a different interpretation.

probably, but in the season 3 Ep: Call of the Primatives, the Predacons cant form Predaking till headstrong rejoins the group!

chalk it up to one of the gazzilion plot holes in g1.

ThunderThruster wrote:Was watching the G1 Season 3 Ep: the Ultimate Weapon, and the Protectorbots form Defensor without Firstaid, yet in the season 2 Ep: Aerial Assult the Aerialbots cant combine into Superion because Fireflight is missing! What the F**k is up with that!?

It's obvious isn't it???

First Aid is basically useless to Defensor. Or Defensor has much more courage than the others, actually willing to try it, unlike the others who just assumed they could not...


Who the heck knows??? Well, on Predaking, Ramhorn is a leg, and good luck standing PK up with only one leg, trust me, I had to do it as a kid and it didn't work so well.

With Defensor they can scramble it up, so no missing leg...the Aerialbots were just too chicken to try.

dont you remember? first aid is a gun, so it doesnt matter if hes attatched as a limb(dumb ebay seller)

OMFG! There's a failure in the perfect G1 cartoon

Really, there's well beyond a 100 plotholes, animation errors or continuity errors.

Stormwolf wrote:OMFG! There's a failure in the perfect G1 cartoon

Really, there's well beyond a 100 plotholes, animation errors or continuity errors.

Don't be silly G1 was perfect! Well, except for the colour scheme swaping seekers, and when a TFs voice came out of anothers body, and the whole thing with Megatron and the constructicons creating eachother, and the black energon, and...

See the arialbots were created first using tech they quickly learned while being attacked. Plus they were built with ancient scrap.

The proctobots were created later. So think of them as an upgrade. Prime relized how uselss a giant robot would be if it was missing a limb.

Contructicons were first so very primitive. Predacons were highly specialized so had to have specfic roles.

If I remember correctly on the special features of disc 1 for the Transformers Movie, there is a commentary track for Scramble City and the commentary actually breaks down the combiners issue. They go so far as to say the combiners can still combine with missing limbs and that any combiner could form with any team to make up for the missing limb so even decepticons and autobots could swap out places. Check the commentary out to get the full info on that.

errors aside I still enjoy G1. I just watch it with a few grains of salt. Or a bowl of buttered popcorn.

Swerve wrote:If I remember correctly on the special features of disc 1 for the Transformers Movie, there is a commentary track for Scramble City and the commentary actually breaks down the combiners issue. They go so far as to say the combiners can still combine with missing limbs and that any combiner could form with any team to make up for the missing limb so even decepticons and autobots could swap out places. Check the commentary out to get the full word for word info on that.

i actually downloaded scramble city, in which one of the stunticons merges with superion!

Swerve wrote:If I remember correctly on the special features of disc 1 for the Transformers Movie, there is a commentary track for Scramble City and the commentary actually breaks down the combiners issue. They go so far as to say the combiners can still combine with missing limbs and that any combiner could form with any team to make up for the missing limb so even decepticons and autobots could swap out places. Check the commentary out to get the full info on that.

Wouldn't that imply that every single gestalt is built the exact same way? I would've thought that decepticon and autobot gestalts would vary slightly in design, so trying to conect the limbs from one to the body of another would be like trying to plug an american appliance into a british socket.

Unchrasimatic wrote:

Swerve wrote:If I remember correctly on the special features of disc 1 for the Transformers Movie, there is a commentary track for Scramble City and the commentary actually breaks down the combiners issue. They go so far as to say the combiners can still combine with missing limbs and that any combiner could form with any team to make up for the missing limb so even decepticons and autobots could swap out places. Check the commentary out to get the full info on that.

Wouldn't that imply that every single gestalt is built the exact same way? I would've thought that decepticon and autobot gestalts would vary slightly in design, so trying to conect the limbs from one to the body of another would be like trying to plug an american appliance into a british socket.

I wondered that myself but I think they may have put a disclaimer on that, implying that this idea was implemented on the Japanese line. I would think there would be some exceptions obviouly like Devestator, for example, who may be an exception to the rule. He uses 6 Constructicons to form rather than five like some of the later combiners that assembled in a more Voltron fashion. I'll have to go back and check out the feature on the movie dvd to get some exact quotes.

If I remember right, the Scramble City guys (ie season 2 combiners onwards) in Japanese continuity can switch limbs around at will. Don't know what the benefit of that is, but in the last ep of Headmasters, Defensor is knocked to the ground by Predaking. His arm falls off, so he makes his leg fall off, his arm connects to his thigh, and he shoots. But that is only in Japanese continuity. Devastator can't 'scramble' around like that. And when that Stunticon merges with Superion in Scramble City, it does cause great pain to the big guy.

Insurgent wrote:If I remember right, the Scramble City guys (ie season 2 combiners onwards) in Japanese continuity can switch limbs around at will. Don't know what the benefit of that is, but in the last ep of Headmasters, Defensor is knocked to the ground by Predaking. His arm falls off, so he makes his leg fall off, his arm connects to his thigh, and he shoots. But that is only in Japanese continuity. Devastator can't 'scramble' around like that. And when that Stunticon merges with Superion in Scramble City, it does cause great pain to the big guy.

As I recall now, the commentary did say something about swapping around parts that would in effect "power up" the different combiners in different ways depending on the situation.

Landfill and Ruination demonstrated that in RID as well.

I caught Scramble City on YouTube once. Fascinating, the idea of combiners "swapping" limbs. It's too bad the G1 cartoon never even touched on the idea. Or for that matter, having the gestalts taking full advantage of all their compenent TFs' abilities. I also wonder why they never had Silverbolt or Motormaster combine with the city modes of Metroplex or Trypticon, though it's probably because they didn't want to complicate things (much as Ratchet and Ironhide were given more straightfoward designs). I do admit that having the Aerialbots attach to Metroplex's shoulders (as per the toys) would probably have been unworkable on the show.

Yeah, but why? Would moving faster component units to the legs actually increase speed or manuverability? Like if Bruticus used Brawl as an arm would that really translate into stronger lifting or punching? Wouldn't that require that the team leader --Onslaught in this case-- be wired and programmed for an amazingly high number of potential combinations when in 'reality' the combiner process already had so many problems and limitations on all the parts? Devastator for example is made up of scientific minds but in combination is little more than a slobbering monster? Bruticus is essentially mindless despite being a perfect war machine. Monstructor according to DW MTMTE despite being comprised of easily the most varied set of robots in terms of personality is a little less slobbery than Devastator. So, would limb swapping really add up to a difference? Nautilator may lower the efficiency of Phiranacon in limb position, but that effeciency wouldn't lower further depending on his use as an arm or leg. As in he'd be better suited as a leg than an arm.
As cool as the scramble city combiner idea is, I just don't think it would have a real, practical effect.
Or maybe I'm just crazy.

I can't tell you just how a gestalt's abilities would be affected by any given arrangement of limbs, though certain weapons may be more easily accessible (Brawl's turret gun). I could be wrong on this, but I assumed--as far as "Scramble City" type combiners are concerned, at least--that the exact order doesn't really matter. At least the toys themselves gave me that impression, even if you discount the what you see in "Scramble City." They never did this in the G1 cartoon, probably because the animators wanted to stick to one model sheet for each gestalt. If you want an in-universe explaination, I'd say that each individual Combaticon or Stunticon (or whichever team you prefer) is used to being in a certain position. Force of habit or whatever. It's like how in my parents' household, we'd usually sit at the same spot at the dinner table every night.

As far as the gestalts' ability to access the powers and weapons of their components, Devastator's TFU profile makes it clear: in theory, he can use all the Constructicons' powers, but lacks the clarity of mind to do so. I assume the same rule holds for the other combiners, to a degree. However, Predaking and Piranicon do not seem to be as burdened by this problem, probably due to improved technology. I guess the same holds for Monstructor, more or less, though I haven't read all the MTMTE profiles.

I'm tired and rambling on so I've probably left something out.

Swerve wrote:If I remember correctly on the special features of disc 1 for the Transformers Movie, there is a commentary track for Scramble City and the commentary actually breaks down the combiners issue. They go so far as to say the combiners can still combine with missing limbs and that any combiner could form with any team to make up for the missing limb so even decepticons and autobots could swap out places. Check the commentary out to get the full info on that.

The Scramble City commentry is so bogus on that disk.. All it mostly pointed out was "this is new footage" and "this is not".. Which half of the time they were WRONG!!!

On the Japaneese side of G1 cartoon, the simular combiner groups can switch like that (SC combiners (most G1 combiners minus Cunsticons (Devistator) and Predacons (Predaking) and the Headmasters from "Headmasters") and get a powerup in the process..

This specific incident is most likely a plot hole due to different writers not familiar with work from previous writers, tho I really like the idea of saying they cant connect to push the sale of more toys. Since the cartoon IS just a 22min commercial with 8mins of commercials in the middle of it

On the Japaneese side of G1 cartoon, the simular combiner groups can switch like that (SC combiners (most G1 combiners minus Cunsticons (Devistator) and Predacons (Predaking) and the Headmasters from "Headmasters") and get a powerup in the process..

The Headmasters could swap heads and gain powerups in the Japanese series. For example, Chromedome is gonna move some bombs, but he lacks the strength to do so. Hardhead has the strength, but he's too chicken, so they swap heads and voila.

Insurgent wrote:

On the Japaneese side of G1 cartoon, the simular combiner groups can switch like that (SC combiners (most G1 combiners minus Cunsticons (Devistator) and Predacons (Predaking) and the Headmasters from "Headmasters") and get a powerup in the process..

The Headmasters could swap heads and gain powerups in the Japanese series. For example, Chromedome is gonna move some bombs, but he lacks the strength to do so. Hardhead has the strength, but he's too chicken, so they swap heads and voila.

except the heads ARE the characters in Headmaster, and the bodies are just big power suits.

Tammuz wrote:

Insurgent wrote:

On the Japaneese side of G1 cartoon, the simular combiner groups can switch like that (SC combiners (most G1 combiners minus Cunsticons (Devistator) and Predacons (Predaking) and the Headmasters from "Headmasters") and get a powerup in the process..

The Headmasters could swap heads and gain powerups in the Japanese series. For example, Chromedome is gonna move some bombs, but he lacks the strength to do so. Hardhead has the strength, but he's too chicken, so they swap heads and voila.

except the heads ARE the characters in Headmaster, and the bodies are just big power suits.

The best one was the Head Formation of Friendship. Touching.

Leonardo wrote:

Tammuz wrote:

Insurgent wrote:

On the Japaneese side of G1 cartoon, the simular combiner groups can switch like that (SC combiners (most G1 combiners minus Cunsticons (Devistator) and Predacons (Predaking) and the Headmasters from "Headmasters") and get a powerup in the process..

The Headmasters could swap heads and gain powerups in the Japanese series. For example, Chromedome is gonna move some bombs, but he lacks the strength to do so. Hardhead has the strength, but he's too chicken, so they swap heads and voila.

except the heads ARE the characters in Headmaster, and the bodies are just big power suits.

The best one was the Head Formation of Friendship. Touching.

I'd forgotten about that, it was one of G1s more... unusual moments.