The Energon Pub

whacko wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

I don't completely disagree, but I think you are overlooking 2 main points. First comparing the price to MP Starsaber's original price is just an unfair comparison no matter how you look at it. MP Starsaber was made 6 years ago before the MP line changed their pricing format and before the regular generations line did the same. If MP Starsaber was released within the last year, we would at least have a current comparable price (my guess would be around $200-$250 if released today). Generations deluxes could still be gotten for $10 on sale back in 2015 versus $10 for a core class now. Does that mean that core figures should be the size of deluxes because this is what their price point was 6 years ago?

Second is that there really isn't a great standard definition of what makes a Commander Class figure. So far, we just have Jetfire, Sky Lynx and Rodimus Prime to go by. Jetfire was the biggest and simplest, Rodimus was the smallest and by far the most complex, and Sky Lynx is somewhere in the middle. Comparing what we've seen so far, Victory Saber is definitely more materials and more complex than Rodimus Prime so the price going beyond the normal commander price point in into Titan range makes sense.

I have all 3 Commanders so far, and what they have shown for Victory Saber is definitely beyond what any of the 3 commander releases have covered.

Edit: tldr: If you are using prices from 6 years ago as your basis on whether something is worth it to you, the answer will almost always be no.

I'm not using prices from 6 years ago as my basis for whether this is worth the price Hasbro is charging. I'm using current prices.

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure.

Commander Class figures have generally sold for $90 and voyagers sell for around $30. $90 + $30 = $120

Haslab wants $180 for this set

Just looking at the prototypes, I don't think the quality they are offering matches the price. Victory Leo who I know is more or less an accessory, has visibly hollow thighs and arms. So does Saber. The brainmaster doesn't look like it has any articulation. The guns are visibly hollow, etc.

Starsaber looks good, and the Victory Saber combined mode looks good as well. I just think it look more like $120-140 worth of toys so far, not $180.

And I'm not opposed to spending money when I think it is warranted. I've purchased nearly $2000 worth of Transformers and 3P toys over the last two months. I just like getting good value for my money and I think Hasbro might be trying to pull a fast one.

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:I backed this thing, but I am thinking about backing out.

The more I see of this figure the more it does not look like $180 worth of toy. It is basically a Commander Class toy selling at an inflated Titan Class price. It even looks like it is recycling blast effects from past Commander Class toys.

$100-120 seems like a fairer price for what they're offering. $180 seem a little bit high. Especially since $180 is $20 more than MP-24 Starsaber sold for and this toy isn't going to have Masterpiece levels of plastic, paint and sculpt quality.

Due to the lack of economies of scale, this toy would never ever give you the same worth of $180 you would see at retail. Ever.

No different than 3p companies charging upwards of $40 for scout sized toys https://tfsource.com/ironfactory/IF-EX49-void-legion/

In both cases, you're paying that price because the sunk cost of making the master mold has less product for that cost to spread out upon.

If you want to ensure you get something worth $180 retail, then just stick to retail.

Of course, you would then miss out on toys like this that would never be found at retail, and that added rarity will definitely play into inflated secondary market prices. So not buying it now if you are slightly interested would backfire when your only chance of experiencing the toy is to spend $400 on e-bay.

Your best bet is to just back it now and if you don't like it when it's released, then just sell it then since there is guaranteed to be new collectors around then that simply were not around when this toy was being backed.

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

Don't forget Kingdom Rodimus also being a "Voyager"

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Sentinel_Primal wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

Also, a reminder that Galvatron, Optimus Prime, Shockwave, Astrotrain, and Ultra Magnus are all "voyagers" as well.

I wish people will stop thinking we are still in 2011.

Don't forget Kingdom Rodimus also being a "Voyager"

Fokkit, ALL Transformers are voyageurs because they got shipped around the globe at one point or another.

william-james88 wrote:

whacko wrote:

Star Saber isn't any larger or more complicated than either Jetfire or Sky Lynx, both of which I also own, but the set does come with a Victory Leo which looks like a more or less basic voyager class figure

Which basic voyagers have 3 modes and the ability to split apart and recombine in 2 different configurations?

Also, this project is open to the entire globe and Haslab serves more than just north america. Please look things up before posting falsehoods.

o.supreme wrote:
Victory Saber (Like Unicron) will presumably only have one use, and not be used to make repaints of other characters because none really fit that mold

whacko wrote:I am worried that projects like this will drive up prices across the board for Hasbro toys. If collectors are continually willing to pay more for less product, Hasbro has no reason to stop offering us more to keep customers happy. People complained when the new WFC series began and toys of all classes shrunk significantly but the quality bumped up a bit so people justified it. How much more are people willing to justify before we're back to get crap toys as premium prices like we did in 2015 when Combiner Wars was the current toy line?

This is a lot of conjecture and opinion. Just because YOU didn't like CW doesn't mean everyone felt the same way, also the prices of the toys back then were less expensive. the main issue most seem to have with CW was it's repetition. Still, it did not suffer form many of the overall QC issues that WFC toys have had.

Smaller independent retailers like Super 7 do this all the time. Their toys are way more expensive because they are selling to a smaller market, so before they make a mold and produce a toy, they have to absolutely know it is going to be profitable first. Whether or not Victory Saber will be 2, 3 or more times it's current value in the secondary market is of little concern to me as well. Still I'd rather have this Haslab Project, than convention and club exclusives that were far more expensive, yet no new molds were made, except for perhaps a small head swap tool on occasion.

Still nobody is under obligation. If you don't want to purchase one, then by all means don't. I didn't purchase Unicron for various reasons already stated, but I am very happy for those that did, and are satisfied with it. Victory Saber (Star Saber and Victory Leo), happen to be characters I've wanted modern updates for a very long time, and frankly never thought would happen. Also It is priced in a range that is reasonable for *me* (not everyone will agree) so yes I am, giving this Haslab my support.

whacko wrote:

o.supreme wrote:
Victory Saber (Like Unicron) will presumably only have one use, and not be used to make repaints of other characters because none really fit that mold

whacko wrote:I am worried that projects like this will drive up prices across the board for Hasbro toys. If collectors are continually willing to pay more for less product, Hasbro has no reason to stop offering us more to keep customers happy. People complained when the new WFC series began and toys of all classes shrunk significantly but the quality bumped up a bit so people justified it. How much more are people willing to justify before we're back to get crap toys as premium prices like we did in 2015 when Combiner Wars was the current toy line?

This is a lot of conjecture and opinion. Just because YOU didn't like CW doesn't mean everyone felt the same way, also the prices of the toys back then were less expensive. the main issue most seem to have with CW was it's repetition. Still, it did not suffer form many of the overall QC issues that WFC toys have had.

Smaller independent retailers like Super 7 do this all the time. Their toys are way more expensive because they are selling to a smaller market, so before they make a mold and produce a toy, they have to absolutely know it is going to be profitable first. Whether or not Victory Saber will be 2, 3 or more times it's current value in the secondary market is of little concern to me as well. Still I'd rather have this Haslab Project, than convention and club exclusives that were far more expensive, yet no new molds were made, except for perhaps a small head swap tool on occasion.

Still nobody is under obligation. If you don't want to purchase one, then by all means don't. I didn't purchase Unicron for various reasons already stated, but I am very happy for those that did, and are satisfied with it. Victory Saber (Star Saber and Victory Leo), happen to be characters I've wanted modern updates for a very long time, and frankly never thought would happen. Also It is priced in a range that is reasonable for *me* (not everyone will agree) so yes I am, giving this Haslab my support.

I am not saying that people didn't like Combiner Wars. I have nearly every Combiner Wars toy sold, and many of the Unite Warriors versions as well.

However it isn't conjecture or opinion to state that those toys were significantly lower quality than Transformers toys that came immediately before the series or since. Plastic was thinner, articulation was extremely limited on deluxe class figures, joints were weak across the field, mold reuse was taken to crazy levels, and over the last 5-7 years the plastic of the deluxe class toys has become brittle and begun to decay. Plastic decays over time anyway, but I have toys from 2003 that are still in nearly new condition while many of my Combiner Wars toys have cracks just from being in storage.

I have basically all of the WFC toys as well, and while they haven't been free from QC issues the overall quality of the toys is much higher than Combiner Wars was. Not just with regards to design and articulation (remember, many CW deluxes didn't even have real FEET!), but also plastic quality and durability for the most part.

As I've stated I have already backed the Victory Saber campaign, but I think that this particular figure could have been released in the mainline at mainline prices instead of being crowd funded at the current $180 price point. I still don't see $180 worth of toy in this campaign yet. Maybe paint and additional accessories would add value but it would be nice if Hasbro was more forthcoming with those details BEFORE the crowd funding campaign ends.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:Well, looks like Hasbro might be starting to add international orders? Cause it just jumped up from roughly 6000 backers to 7345 backers. Good news is that puts us at roughly 67% of the way there, but the bad news is I'm not sure if that was one burst of backers from one site/country, or if that was ALL of the international backers that he had

whacko wrote:How many Commander Class Kingdom Rodimus Prime toys did Hasbro manufacture? Do you know for certain that they made more than 11,000 of them? How would the economy of scale of that figure be significantly different than this figure?

o.supreme wrote:TF Source says their pre-order listing is "sold out", while BBTS, EE, and HLJ don't even have it available for pre-order yet.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Does anyone else find it odd how little they're advertising this Haslab compared to the others? Like, sure they did the FFF reveal for it and they showed the prototype at that expo, but they didn't send out an email notification for that livestream before or after the fact, or any of the seemingly incessant HasLab emails they've sent for Unicron, Galactus, etc that I was getting regardless of the fact that I hadn't backed any of them.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Whacko, your Combiner Wars toys are deteriorating? What kind of climate do you live in? How are you storing your figures? I’ve moved 3 times over the past few years, with my figures going into and out of storage as I pack and unpack them between houses, and nothing has broken, or even suffered so much as a stress mark. Your case seems more unique than ubiquitous so far.

-Kanrabat- wrote:That would be logical....
Hmmmm.....

I think I will cancel my order, then back two. The shipping price for two will barely be different from one.