The Energon Pub

Stargrave wrote: If you're one of the fans who can

This is extremely important right here. Yeah, it sucks, but this figure is for the elite of collecting only. I have seen so many people (some here, but most elsewhere) encouraging and suggesting absolutely horrible financial advice to people who simply cant afford this, all because they want it made. That is pathetic and childish. For many of us, I think we forget what it is like to not make or have much money.

Look at it this way, if you can not easily set aside this money, WITHOUT skipping on any other bills or responsibilities, in the space of two or three paychecks, than this figure is not for you. Please, do not take out a credit card just for this, its not worth interest payments.


Be smart, people, please.

I think the main problem with this right now is the sheer number of exclusives and high priced items announced at the exact same time. Like ... where's the fire, guys? Did the sail barge have this sort of glut? Plus the line has people rebuying older characters all at once too AND a new Seeker mould which has people army building. AND most of them are exclusives! I can see other fans deciding they'd rather have a new Seeker army at voyager size AND Omega Supreme AND Jetfire than Unicron alone in two years time.

"Did Star Wars action figures have a glut?" There have been about 50 Black Series figures a year for the last five years, with half of them being exclusives. Hasbro gonna Hasbro.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I think the main problem with this right now is the sheer number of exclusives and high priced items announced at the exact same time. Like ... where's the fire, guys? Did the sail barge have this sort of glut? Plus the line has people rebuying older characters all at once too AND a new Seeker mould which has people army building. AND most of them are exclusives! I can see other fans deciding they'd rather have a new Seeker army at voyager size AND Omega Supreme AND Jetfire than Unicron alone in two years time.

That's my conundrum as well. There's so many figures I want to have... And they are all coming out now or soon.
...
Choices must be made and I'm starting to doubt my backing. Especially if I must use my credit card once again. I already have two 1000$CAN dolls. I dont need a 3rd one.

I have to be reasonable and finally get out of this one regrettably.

Godspeed to all remaining and future backers!

Ironhidensh wrote:

Stargrave wrote: If you're one of the fans who can

This is extremely important right here. Yeah, it sucks, but this figure is for the elite of collecting only. I have seen so many people (some here, but most elsewhere) encouraging and suggesting absolutely horrible financial advice to people who simply cant afford this, all because they want it made. That is pathetic and childish. For many of us, I think we forget what it is like to not make or have much money.

Look at it this way, if you can not easily set aside this money, WITHOUT skipping on any other bills or responsibilities, in the space of two or three paychecks, than this figure is not for you. Please, do not take out a credit card just for this, its not worth interest payments.


Be smart, people, please.

You’re the first one I think to note my phrasing on that and I intend to continue to use it. It really is for those who can and I want to be positive and support this but not at the cost of a fellow Seibertronian letting something genuinely important and crucial fall through the cracks. I want people to enjoy this, not drown with it.

It’s a little thing but I really appreciate you catching that actually.

Not here to rain on the parade, but while 2000 is a great accomplishment, this is NOT on pace to make it to 8000. IN fact, just as it crossed 2000, for the first time, the number of backers was behind pace, and will only begin compounding each day. I posted earlier on in this thread based on when the campaign began, there were 48 days. Simple math- 8000 divided by 48= 167 backers per day (rounding up)

The first few days were nice since almost 800 signed up, but since then, it has been pretty steady. Now it is behind unfortunately. It does not appear at this time (thought things could change), that any of the 3rd party retailers or backers are adding to this total, which is unfortunate. Here is the day-to-day of where it needs to be to be successful:

Calendar Date Participants Needed
7/15/2019 167
7/16/2019 334
7/17/2019 501
7/18/2019 668
7/19/2019 835
7/20/2019 1002
7/21/2019 1169
7/22/2019 1336
7/23/2019 1503
7/24/2019 1670
7/25/2019 1837
7/26/2019 2004
7/27/2019 2171
7/28/2019 2338
7/29/2019 2505
7/30/2019 2672
7/31/2019 2839
8/1/2019 3006
8/2/2019 3173
8/3/2019 3340
8/4/2019 3507
8/5/2019 3674
8/6/2019 3841
8/7/2019 4008
8/8/2019 4175
8/9/2019 4342
8/10/2019 4509
8/11/2019 4676
8/12/2019 4843
8/13/2019 5010
8/14/2019 5177
8/15/2019 5344
8/16/2019 5511
8/17/2019 5678
8/18/2019 5845
8/19/2019 6012
8/20/2019 6179
8/21/2019 6346
8/22/2019 6513
8/23/2019 6680
8/24/2019 6847
8/25/2019 7014
8/26/2019 7181
8/27/2019 7348
8/28/2019 7515
8/29/2019 7682
8/30/2019 7849
8/31/2019 8016

As of this writing it is as 2051, this is where it should have been between the 26th/27th, about 450 behind where it needs to be today. I suspect perhaps a slight uptick around August 1, as this may be a time when many people receive their sources of income. But unless something really significant happens, its not looking good.

o.supreme wrote:Not here to rain on the parade, but while 2000 is a great accomplishment, this is NOT on pace to make it to 8000. IN fact, just as it crossed 2000, for the first time, the number of backers was behind pace, and will only begin compounding each day. I posted earlier on in this thread based on when the campaign began, there were 48 days. Simple math- 8000 divided by 48= 167 backers per day (rounding up)

The first few days were nice since almost 800 signed up, but since then, it has been pretty steady. Now it is behind unfortunately. It does not appear at this time (thought things could change), that any of the 3rd party retailers or backers are adding to this total, which is unfortunate. Here is the day-to-day of where it needs to be to be successful:

As of this writing it is as 2051, this is where it should have been between the 26th/27th, about 450 behind where it needs to be today. I suspect perhaps a slight uptick around August 1, as this may be a time when many people receive their sources of income. But unless something really significant happens, its not looking good.

This assumes a steady distribution of backers. Crowdfunding has historically shown significant spikes at the beginning and end of the campaign. I think it's reasonable to expect hundreds of backers in the final day, and thousands in the final week, which would require fewer supporters during the middle.

One thing that needs baring in mind for those who say about figures coming out before, they'll still be available after. If this fails its not available at all, if it succeeds, you pay the price. This is now or never kind of thinking. I just wish we knew the inner workings of the preorders with TT and the other sites doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be included. The alternative is that there just isn't enough interest, even with other sites getting in on it.

Ordered on day one, w00t!

AcademyofDrX wrote:This assumes a steady distribution of backers. Crowdfunding has historically shown significant spikes at the beginning and end of the campaign. I think it's reasonable to expect hundreds of backers in the final day, and thousands in the final week, which would require fewer supporters during the middle.

Understood, and I did note the spike in the beginning. Not sure about the spike towards the end though because most crowdfunded projects I've seen that were successful, were so well before their time expired (as was the case with the Star Wars Sail Barge for example).... I haven't followed a lot of crowdfunding efforts, but I don't think I've seen one go down to the wire, and just succeed by a swelling of support in the last days/hours. It would be neat to experience, no doubt, I just haven't seen it yet...

ZeroWolf wrote:One thing that needs baring in mind for those who say about figures coming out before, they'll still be available after. If this fails its not available at all, if it succeeds, you pay the price. This is now or never kind of thinking. I just wish we knew the inner workings of the preorders with TT and the other sites doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be included. The alternative is that there just isn't enough interest, even with other sites getting in on it.

Speaking personally, I don't think this line of thinking has value. If you're in the US and want it, sign up through the campaign. But if you can't do that for one reason or another, go ahead and pre-order from another retailer. It's not an individual's responsibility to make the campaign happen -- either it'll get enough support, or it won't. Spending a lot of time worrying about it doesn't do anyone any favors.

Wireless_Phantom wrote:I wish I could back but I can't. I really hope this gets funded.

If I bought toys still which I don’t I would this no different in buying third party combiners which cost more altogether in combined mode than it would for this sold all my toys original g1 and new for 225 over 300 yeah transformer toys are not popular where I live I always see them up for sale at flea markets no one buys some original g1 toys still in boxes good luck for those who will get it unless deadline is extended I don’t see it happening

ZeroWolf wrote:One thing that needs baring in mind for those who say about figures coming out before, they'll still be available after. If this fails its not available at all, if it succeeds, you pay the price. This is now or never kind of thinking. I just wish we knew the inner workings of the preorders with TT and the other sites doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be included. The alternative is that there just isn't enough interest, even with other sites getting in on it.

Well, I emailed customer support on BBTS the other day asking that sort of question. In the response the kind woman gave me, she indicated that Hasbro and BBTS' product team were working very closely and she was sure the preorders were being counted towards the goal. Now granted, she didn't have all of the information available to her, but it seems like Hasbro is trying to use all of these avenues so that we can get the product to as many people as possible. So it seems like, yes, they are counting towards the goal.

^It could be a matter of a delay as well. When you sign up on HP, you are *counted* right away. Kind of like counting international boxoffice sales for movies. It's easy to get numbers for North America, but getting international sales numbers sometimes has a delay. If we see this number jump significantly in a short period of time, then I think we can safely assume that all those 3P sales are contributing towards the total. Again we just haven't seen it yet...

o.supreme wrote:Understood, and I did note the spike in the beginning. Not sure about the spike towards the end though because most crowdfunded projects I've seen that were successful, were so well before their time expired (as was the case with the Star Wars Sail Barge for example).... I haven't followed a lot of crowdfunding efforts, but I don't think I've seen one go down to the wire, and just succeed by a swelling of support in the last days/hours. It would be neat to experience, no doubt, I just haven't seen it yet...

I don't think that recollection of the Sail Barge is entirely accurate. Per an EW feature from March 21, with just a couple weeks remaining in the campaign, the barge only had 2500 backers. It didn't hit the 5000 target until 3/30, just a few days before the 4/3 deadline. And as others have mentioned, there was a huge surge at the very end, with 3000+ more between 3/30 and 4/3.

This campaign will most likely be tighter, but I don't think there's any cause for concern. At any rate, I wouldn't want to predict failure until later in the cycle.

unicron1200 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:One thing that needs baring in mind for those who say about figures coming out before, they'll still be available after. If this fails its not available at all, if it succeeds, you pay the price. This is now or never kind of thinking. I just wish we knew the inner workings of the preorders with TT and the other sites doesn't make sense that they wouldn't be included. The alternative is that there just isn't enough interest, even with other sites getting in on it.

Well, I emailed customer support on BBTS the other day asking that sort of question. In the response the kind woman gave me, she indicated that Hasbro and BBTS' product team were working very closely and she was sure the preorders were being counted towards the goal. Now granted, she didn't have all of the information available to her, but it seems like Hasbro is trying to use all of these avenues so that we can get the product to as many people as possible. So it seems like, yes, they are counting towards the goal.

Ryan confirmed on the latest Twincast Podcast (available here!) that Takara Tomy Mall orders would NOT count towards the HasLab campaign total.

We don't have confirmation, to my knowledge, that US-based retailers like BBTS would count towards the HasLab total, but that's my understanding.

The way I see it, the other online retailers won't add their preorders to the count until closer to the end, as they'd want to garner as many preorders as they could before giving their total preorder numbers to Hasbro.

As for me, I think the most financially viable option for me at this point would be to simply go with TFSource's preorder (no down payment, no charge until the figure arrives in October 2021, and free U.S. shipping) and then set aside $10 every payday from now until I reach the total cost in two years.

Ironhidensh wrote:

Stargrave wrote: If you're one of the fans who can

This is extremely important right here. Yeah, it sucks, but this figure is for the elite of collecting only. I have seen so many people (some here, but most elsewhere) encouraging and suggesting absolutely horrible financial advice to people who simply cant afford this, all because they want it made. That is pathetic and childish. For many of us, I think we forget what it is like to not make or have much money.

Look at it this way, if you can not easily set aside this money, WITHOUT skipping on any other bills or responsibilities, in the space of two or three paychecks, than this figure is not for you. Please, do not take out a credit card just for this, its not worth interest payments.


Be smart, people, please.

I would add some nuance here, not because I necessarily disagree, but because I think you might be putting the emph-AH-sis on the wrong syll-AH-ble.

Yes, be smart. Don't put yourself in a financial hole or destroy your credit for Unicron.

However, while this is geared towards those who can pay, it's not necessarily going to be the case that only 'elite collectors' (whatever that means) will be able to pay.

If you are prioritizing this purchase and putting others on hold, that's cool. If you decide to utilize BBTS so you have a smaller up front payment and 18+ months to plan for the remainder, great. So long as you are approaching this purchase responsibly, any and all kinds of collectors can find ways to afford this monstrosity. That's not to say 'all', but I come up against putting folks in a specific box.

Sabrblade wrote:The way I see it, the other online retailers won't add their preorders to the count until closer to the end, as they'd want to garner as many preorders as they could before giving their total preorder numbers to Hasbro.

As for me, I think the most financially viable option for me at this point would be to simply go with TFSource's preorder (no down payment, no charge until the figure arrives in October 2021, and free U.S. shipping) and then set aside $10 every payday from now until I reach the total cost in two years.

As long as it counts towards the total, that's probably the best way to do it.

Regarding TT, that seems a bit weird, wouldn't it have been in their best interests to have their pre orders add to the original total? At the moment it just reads that they're saying "Hey you can get this completely awesome unicron, but only if those Americans get off their behinds and back it!"

megatronus wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

Stargrave wrote: If you're one of the fans who can

This is extremely important right here. Yeah, it sucks, but this figure is for the elite of collecting only. I have seen so many people (some here, but most elsewhere) encouraging and suggesting absolutely horrible financial advice to people who simply cant afford this, all because they want it made. That is pathetic and childish. For many of us, I think we forget what it is like to not make or have much money.

Look at it this way, if you can not easily set aside this money, WITHOUT skipping on any other bills or responsibilities, in the space of two or three paychecks, than this figure is not for you. Please, do not take out a credit card just for this, its not worth interest payments.


Be smart, people, please.

I would add some nuance here, not because I necessarily disagree, but because I think you might be putting the emph-AH-sis on the wrong syll-AH-ble.

Yes, be smart. Don't put yourself in a financial hole or destroy your credit for Unicron.

However, while this is geared towards those who can pay, it's not necessarily going to be the case that only 'elite collectors' (whatever that means) will be able to pay.

If you are prioritizing this purchase and putting others on hold, that's cool. If you decide to utilize BBTS so you have a smaller up front payment and 18+ months to plan for the remainder, great. So long as you are approaching this purchase responsibly, any and all kinds of collectors can find ways to afford this monstrosity. That's not to say 'all', but I come up against putting folks in a specific box.

You know that’s a really good point I appreciate that. I think I’m trying to appeal to everyone given what all this represents. From the ‘elite’ to a grunt like me I root for all of us because at the end of the day, we all have been drawn to this hobby (which is the best hobby). I just see fans.

Honestly it was your appeal during the recent podcast that inspired my current view on Unicron I really loved what you said.

I backed it. If it happens, it's cool. If it doesn't, it won't bother me. It's just a toy.

If this figure gets made, I of course really want it, because it means we probably won't get a new Unicron in forever. But I'd really rather have something else, something smaller and more practical, maybe with some accessories, and honestly less kibble. This figure is very impressive and if it's the new Unicron then so be it, but it's just a bit disappointing and not exactly what I've been hoping for in a Unicron update.

Well technically speaking, this is only the Second Unicron* ever to get this far into development (two 1986 Prototypes, and a 1999 prototype didn't get this far). All other Unicron re-releases have been based on the 2003 Armada one.

* Ok, I have to preface full actual Unicron toys. Not little chibi toys, or models, or *tank drones* or Aligned Continuity etc...etc... you guys get it right?

megatronus wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

Stargrave wrote: If you're one of the fans who can

This is extremely important right here. Yeah, it sucks, but this figure is for the elite of collecting only. I have seen so many people (some here, but most elsewhere) encouraging and suggesting absolutely horrible financial advice to people who simply cant afford this, all because they want it made. That is pathetic and childish. For many of us, I think we forget what it is like to not make or have much money.

Look at it this way, if you can not easily set aside this money, WITHOUT skipping on any other bills or responsibilities, in the space of two or three paychecks, than this figure is not for you. Please, do not take out a credit card just for this, its not worth interest payments.


Be smart, people, please.

I would add some nuance here, not because I necessarily disagree, but because I think you might be putting the emph-AH-sis on the wrong syll-AH-ble.

Yes, be smart. Don't put yourself in a financial hole or destroy your credit for Unicron.

However, while this is geared towards those who can pay, it's not necessarily going to be the case that only 'elite collectors' (whatever that means) will be able to pay.

If you are prioritizing this purchase and putting others on hold, that's cool. If you decide to utilize BBTS so you have a smaller up front payment and 18+ months to plan for the remainder, great. So long as you are approaching this purchase responsibly, any and all kinds of collectors can find ways to afford this monstrosity. That's not to say 'all', but I come up against putting folks in a specific box.

I agree, "elite" was a bad word choice, but I still don't think this is for the average collector. This is a massive purchase, no matter how special, awesome or once in a lifetime it is, at the end of the day, its more than most car payments and almost as much as a house payment. This is an item that is only for well off collectors.

"Well off" might even be a bad term, but what I'm getting at, is I've seen people justifying skipping actual bills and things that matter, just to buy a fancy toy. That's a bad thing.

Ironhidensh wrote:I agree, "elite" was a bad word choice, but I still don't think this is for the average collector. This is a massive purchase, no matter how special, awesome or once in a lifetime it is, at the end of the day, its more than most car payments

Agreed

Ironhidensh wrote:and almost as much as a house payment.

...eh, not so much. I may be jaded living in CA, but I'm not exactly in *the big city*, but average apartment rent for one bedroom is around $800. Mortgage Payments for a *single-family-home* can range anywhere from $1500 to $2500. Even one of my relatives who lives in Idaho where cost of living is far less, her Mortgage Payment is $800, and she purchased her home 20 years ago. Still. I'm not completely out of the loop. I work in the mortgage industry, I know there are several homes that are paying a $600 mortgage, or less. But of course, those homes/families are not looking at $600 toys to say the least.

Ironhidensh wrote:This is an item that is only for well off collectors.

"Well off" might even be a bad term, but what I'm getting at, is I've seen people justifying skipping actual bills and things that matter, just to buy a fancy toy. That's a bad thing.

I know at the end of the day this is probably arguing minutiae. But we do agree in principal overall, This is not an easily obtainable purchase by any means, especially for 8000 people. I really think it is, ambitious, and amazing, and I'ld like to have one. But while I did just drop $180 (after Tax) on a Grand Maximus, that is a far cry from $575..

I'm not in that place right now, and I was content, on the first day resolving this would be something I just wont have in my collection. I could probably sell off several pieces I have to earn the money, but I really don't think I have anything I really don't want right now. I mean, It probably sounds nuts, but if I had $600 to spend, and someone offered me all 4 Custom built Botcon 2016 Ratchet's, fully assembled, painted, and complete for that price, I'd take that deal, over this Unicron. Just my priorities. Heck I may even take a Flash Sentry at that price. It's much smaller, but there's only ever going to be 75 in existence, as opposed to potentially 8000+ Unicron's...