The Energon Pub

News Credits: 6188 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:28 pm

A conversation that took place in Susha's photocomic thread made me think about the process of the creation of strips like those seen in the Photo Blitz section.

We currently have myself, paul053, Susha, Madeus Prime (ex-Godzillabot), with BeastProwl and Henry921, working on more or less regular ongoing comics, so I'm going to ask them first - but please, anyone, add your thoughts!

The question is: how do you go about creating your comic? Do you use a script? Do you take photos then add dialogue, or think of the dialogue first? What tips would you give to someone who wants to start?

RhA, Burn and others have worked on this before, too - what are your thoughts on it?

Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:50 pm

i'll egaerly add my thoughts,

Idea's usually spawn around characters/toys and the availability of such. For example at the moment I am considering the inclusion of some late 1980's toys in my story. The reason, my grandpas canteen got flooded couple months ago so I spent part of the recent holidays cleaning up forgotten toys from mold and bad odors.

At this point I think (but do not put on paper) the basic storyline for an episode. I sometimes exceed in details to the point where I already think of dialogues, but this helps me cos this way I start thinking of each individual photo and eventual poses.

From there the next process is considering the set. I have a (semi) passion for photography so I like atleast some of the photos to be decent. For example my xmas episode tries to 'show off' a bit of my living room. The previous episode tried to show some nice pics of the kitchen and the view of the city from it.

Then comes the photoshoot. poses etc. Having the outline of your story already set helps. I find it is ESSENTIAL to take atleast 3-6 photos of each pose so you can choose the best 1, also sometimes they look ok on the camera display but then suck on the PC's screen. Try from different angeles too. But if you take just 1 pic of a pose you always risk not being able to use the pose cos the photos sucks or whatever reason.

Follows come a selection of which images you CAN use.

Then is the selection of images that you WILL use.

After this comes the longest part, editing the photos so they look like comics.

Then I add dialogue bubbles. (at which point i've already outined the general dialogues).

and finally i add dialogues of course...

What follows is a basically editing, spell-checking, finding a URL, etc.. which I assume is unrelated from the topic of this thread.

News Credits: 6188 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Yeah, I'm just thinking about the creative rather than technical process.

That's an interesting approach, and not too dissimilar from mine, actually.

I tend to have a vague sense of where the story is going, but no written script. When I started out, I knew I'd be sending my characters in search of the PCC limb drones, but not how I'd get there necessarily. The characters developed gradually, but the basics were there (annoying 'sidekick', condescending 'main character' - though they're both the protagonists, really).

I usually plan 8-9 photos per update, or at least I do now, and I tend to take one or two photos per pose. For the current arc, I have a very clear sense of what I want to do, and the next two updates are already done, just need dialogue adding.

I know what will happen after that, but have yet to shoot or plan any of it.

News Credits: 226 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:55 pm

I think one of the most important things is the placement of the caption and making sure it's readable.

Black writing on dark backgrounds do NOT work. Your reader shouldn't have to strain his eyes to read.

Oh and spelling and grammar. It doesn't take long to run something through a spell checker (hell, most browsers have it built in now). Which is why it's probably a good idea to have your script written first.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:40 pm

Burn wrote:I think one of the most important things is the placement of the caption and making sure it's readable.

Black writing on dark backgrounds do NOT work. Your reader shouldn't have to strain his eyes to read.

Oh and spelling and grammar. It doesn't take long to run something through a spell checker (hell, most browsers have it built in now). Which is why it's probably a good idea to have your script written first.

I for example use this program/site (befunky) to modify photos and add text. fact is there is no spellcheck on it. Its an excuse I know, but after having done all the rest of the work, the dialogues are the final push towards the finished product. I on the contrary of Vaal have a 'all in one' approach (i tend to go with the creative flow and hate to interupt and pick it up again, it just has to be all in one 'big push') and basically am pretty much drained of energies by the time I get to the dialogues. I'm new to this so maybe with time I can develop a better working method, but for now this is how I'm doing things.

News Credits: 23 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:17 pm

This is the PS I use and its very useful if you're not planning on doing a ton of effects

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Photoshop-E ... lements+10

I've found with this program that if you say want to have an explosion, you need to google a pic you like and basically cut out the bit you want and then mess with it as you please

But that's just the technical part, the part I'm sure most people want to hear about is truly how you manage to make an ongoing photocomic.

I usually will come up with a storyline and take photos WAY early in the process, then I tend to do the text/speech as I go along posting. That is just because my life is hectic and I don't nearly have the time I need to do this, it has a downside, as many times I'll forget a joke or line a character makes.

If you want to do a photocomic, my idea is this. Avoid language, steal references, and most importantly of all: HAVE SOME FUN!!! :HEADHURTS:

News Credits: 6188 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:22 pm

Avoid language? :-?

I only use GIMP, and never add any effects other than colour/saturation/polarisation and add text boxes. White on black (as Burn said above) or black/white with asterisks for sound effects.

I also believe in pacing myself. I don't mind when other people update multiple times a day, but I personally can't do that, and I think a regular trickle is better for the readers, too.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:33 pm

Im all for the 'having fun' not so much for the 'as little dialogues as possible'

after all the drive to this 'hobby' must be personal (as i don't really expect anyone else other than me to read it, but am flattered if anyone beside my wife bothers) even if the very fact that we post on the web indicates that at least at some level 'we' (im not just refering to myself in third person...) seek appreciation from others. The byproduct of this on our hobby is that when making it we do not only seek to amuse ourselves but also hope others find it amusing.
I for one stand with Bill Waterson on this (the guy who draws.. sorry drew calvin & hobbes) who basically said 'i draw for myself', meaning:
I want the 'comic', if so it can be called, to reflect my self and what I like and I don't really see the point of diluting the product for a wider audience, after all there are enough products for under 15 year olds with oversimplified storylines and all that (recent captain harlock movie).
For me the PERFECT 'comic' 'anime' 'movie' (call it what you will) was Akira
it had awsome animations that finally put to shame dysney background animations
it had a complex and intertwined story that nonetheless was rather understandable and followed a good logic. Moreover I understood Akira the first time I saw it. can't say the same for 12 monkeys for example. fact is i give great value to the narrative flow of storytelling. Clearly each media has its own advantages and disadvantages in storytelling, but as far as i'm concerned my intellectual fetish would be to transfer the passionate qualities of oral story telling to other media. no im not talking dirty and I was trying to be as less pretentious as possible, but this is after all how i seek to express my self creatively on my free time, meaning, 'it' just gotta be me and this also means that it will drag the influences of the things i like (example akira) as that is (consciously or not) what I aspire to produce... i'm not saying I aspire to produce anything at that level of quality, but rather that it just represents my taste.
This goes all the way down from the 'look' the narrative and dialogues.

More specifically for me the story telling is driven by my personal tendency of being a bit of nihilist. My solution is seeking to provide my 'actors' with as plausible agendas and motifs as possible. I'm not saying this is original as game of thrones is a perfect example of telling 'fantasy' through more complex and adult narrative, or a more to theme citation might be the recent gundam origins. I'm just saying I'd rather really talk about the things that interest me in the comic rather than simplify everything for the benefit of a more 'polished product' when after all the making of a 'plausible' story with characters that act sensibly and talk sensibly about 'adult matters' is at the top of the list of the things i get from this hobby... yes that sounded phoney. .. just take charlie brown, thats a wonderful example of how a few strips can talk about ... well .. everything and still have relatively little dialogue.
...
yet as i already said I do not have the lexical skills to express some of the things i want to talk about... ..well, briefly...

hope this wall of text at least stayed on target. I find atleast it helps clarify what one wants to obtain from making their own photocomic.

News Credits: 6188 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:07 pm

It's not drawing, it's photos, for one. Too much text? Clutters the frame, makes the storytelling flow clunky. Putting yourself into it? Sure, but as you said, entertain others too. I know I laugh at my own jokes, but I do hope others like them too! And spellchecking. Mistakes make it look really really bad and amateurish. As Burn said, anything will proofread for you. Re-read panels before uploading.

Seriously, if I, a speaker of English as a second language, can do it, so can you lot.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm trying to move forward from seeing one text, or rather, its animated adaptation, by what you seem to say, as the be all and end all of storytelling. Especially if your aim is to 'transfer the passionate qualities of oral story telling to other media'.

*[Akira was a product of its time (though yes, still excellent), this is something completely different, and it's informed by a tradition that has been in turn informed by Akira and other excellent examples of storytelling since. In the Anglophone world, for example: Shaun Tan's The Arrival - entirely without words; Glyn Dillon's The Nao of Brown - watercolour graphic novel; Vaughn and Staples' Saga - sci-fi and fantasy serialised comic, with a distinct break in themes and art from its predecessors. And all the usual, serialised work from Marvel, DC, IDW, Image, etc.]

News Credits: 23 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:25 pm

Va'al wrote:Avoid language?

As in cussing, swearing, and rude humor. (I'm all for a bodily function joke, but there's a limit)

Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:25 pm

i'm sorry i spoke as to what i aspire to rather than what inspires me which is probably a better definition.
more than aspiring to transfer the oral etc... then it would be as that is what i really find as being the essence of narrative. i refer to the blues brothers but there are obviously more duct references of soul and gospel music that transfer the ancient skills of african storytellers into american music. I do not mean to say that that is the standard i mean to meet, but that it is what i like the most. if this appears in my photocomic i dunno but it does reflect in how i think and thus how i wish to appear and as a consequence probably what i would want my photocomic to look like and/or communicate.

As for the inspirations/references, i never meant to speak for you guys nor to diminish a more informed product/discussion than mine, but rather to list, or give mention to the things that influence what i do. not even as a credit to my work but more as a specific explanation of what drives my interest in making my photocomic and thus seeking to answer (even if vaguely) the thread topic.i just thought it would be useful in helping others understand how the 'project' comes to fruition. ..that is of course the way i do it, not saying its a must either...

Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:28 pm

Writing has always been my passion. As such, I tend to focus on the story first. While I don't 'script' out every bit of dialogue, I do create a plan draft for the overall story direction and know the beginning and end, and perhaps certain events inbetween, and then make things up as I go and hope it all blends together. I have nixed and rewritten the occasional panel, but have never been very good at editing, so nearly every panel I've put up has been a first draft. This has led to an occasional grammatical error (it burns!) but is most often problematic when trying to center dialogue in speech and thought bubbles, and sometimes the individual dialogue lines are positioned incorrectly.

As for the photos, the first and most difficult decision is whether or not I'm shooting a "comedy" or a "drama". In a comedy, the characters are positioned in my house (most often my kitchen) and in a drama, they are meant to tell a story bearing a resemblance to actual Transformers fiction, and are most often shot in front of backgrounds set on my computer or TV. My early installments were all done at night, but lighting and image concerns led to this being done during the daytime, which is a bit out of my natural element.

The cast selection is rarely an issue, as I can tell a variety of stories with the figures on-hand. When inspiration strikes I may have to dig one or two characters out of storage, but most of the time I'm making a comic about toys I acquired recently (such as the comics I made in the toy haul thread, and my Megaplex story) or figures I keep around at my desk or bookshelf (such as Robots in Disguise Skyfire, my author avatar).

As for the process itself, I take photos using my iPhone's built in camera, clean them up a little with Photoshop, and then run the photos through MSpaint to add dialogue and text boxes. I'm still experimenting with more dramatic effects, but haven't reached the really fancy tricks yet.

News Credits: 6188 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:32 pm

Madeus Prime wrote:
Va'al wrote:Avoid language?

As in cussing, swearing, and rude humor. (I'm all for a bodily function joke, but there's a limit)

Oh. Bad language. Well, that works within the rules of the forum, too, of course.

Susha: I see.

Ah, Henry, there you are! You suggested another question to ask:

What about humour versus serious storylines? How do you strike a balance, if at all? Tips, ideas, suggestions?

News Credits: 226 · Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:56 pm

Va'al wrote:What about humour versus serious storylines? How do you strike a balance, if at all? Tips, ideas, suggestions?

I think it all comes down to what sort of story people want to craft.

You've seen my photocomics and stories, I either go hardcore serious (rare) or my personal preference, utter stupidity at the expense of others.

Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:00 pm

well my story is working towards creating a plausible agenda and motifs to a conflict between toys inside house premises. and thats already half a spoiler...

on the other hand the main character seems to have interests beyond that of a toy. at the core of this is the attempt to touch the issue of being an "adults toy". This touches directly on the toy story issue. I do not even remember how long ago i saw it, but i think the hole point of the movie at the end was the fact that a kids toy is meant to bring the kid joy. you know the whole thing about passing the toy to a new generation thing..

the issue at hand for me at this point is how do you "justify" an adults toy? If the toy represents somehow the owner (and in my photocomic i intend to at some point joke around similarities bewteen my personality/defects and that of the toy characters as in each carries some of my traits {good & bad}) then also their motifs, interests and agendas will reflect that of the owner which being an adult changes the "aim/objective" of the toy. How does an adults toy make it happy? it happens of course to touch the argument of how does an adult justify to his eyes the acquisition collection of "toys". I'm not specifically arguing against, but rather want to explore the implications. I think that this will eventually pay back in providing characters with their own traits/personality and a plausible agenda for each in participating in any future conflict (which I adimit i want to try and do).

On the other hand I plan to keep some space for more "realistic" conversations, and for example was thinking of but at this point propose to all those here, to produce a "strip" that is directly inspired from a known comic strip. I was thinking Peanuts but doesn't have to be. The way i plan to do this is by breaking the barrier.. the wall.. the third... what does brainstorm call it... oh nevermind.. by portraying the characters in "ofscreen" scenes, as how they show "deleted" scenes at the end of movies. for example with characters dsicussing plot with me etc..

just thoughts for now.

Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:09 am

Burn wrote:
Va'al wrote:What about humour versus serious storylines? How do you strike a balance, if at all? Tips, ideas, suggestions?

I think it all comes down to what sort of story people want to craft.

You've seen my photocomics and stories, I either go hardcore serious (rare) or my personal preference, utter stupidity at the expense of others.

If my story is meant to be (pseudo) canonical and use existing characters, I use whatever personalities they have. Hence, in, say, The Shadow Knows, the only comic relief comes from Skywarp, rather than Thundercracker or Jhiaxus or Megaplex. The rest of the tone is fairly somber, and at times a bit dark. If it fits the existing character to be funny, he can be funny. If it doesn't, it feels out of character and stretches the disbelief further. You still want your lighthearted moments in such a grim drama, however. It's easy to make your story too dark and grim to be truly enjoyable.

It's also very common for me to throw in little bits of humorous dialogue taking place in the background, like the comments subtly hinting at "Steve"s identity in The Vanity of a Name and Steve Blum's sordid history of pretending to be David Willis. Also an obscure reference. I like those.

In comparison, when I crossover with The Amazing Adventures of Dennis & Bruce, even if the evil Henry's plans are literally to destroy an entire universe, the entire storyline is intended as whacky fun, so I let my author avatar ham it up and include the Power Rangers Core Combiners jingle for the transformation sequence. It's not meant to slot in seamlessly with any existing canon. As a result, it's usually more fun to write because the story can be resolved with a big finale or a complete anticlimax, and either can be funny.

To my mind, the key to balancing humor with serious drama in the narrative is variety. You take the standard comedy routine of a cuckoolander and a straight man, and add varying personality traits amongst the cast, and let their interactions and dialogue carry the story. A good villain contrasts with the hero and has an understandable motivation, and the supporting cast have multiple dimensions to their personality and their presence and actions add layers of unpredictability to the story. Sometimes sheer incongruity between characters is all that's needed to create drama OR comedy. Sometimes the subplot of a larger story is the funny part. Sometimes a comedic series has a credible threat of a villain built up in the background.

And, as aforementioned, just making something stupid or ridiculous can lead your reader to conclude they'll have more fun if they ignore any logical shortcomings and just go with it.

News Credits: 6188 · Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:47 am

Susha wrote:On the other hand I plan to keep some space for more "realistic" conversations, and for example was thinking of but at this point propose to all those here, to produce a "strip" that is directly inspired from a known comic strip. I was thinking Peanuts but doesn't have to be. The way i plan to do this is by breaking the barrier.. the wall.. the third... what does brainstorm call it... oh nevermind.. by portraying the characters in "ofscreen" scenes, as how they show "deleted" scenes at the end of movies. for example with characters dsicussing plot with me etc..

just thoughts for now.

Fourth wall.

Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:43 am

exactly what i meant.

thank you :grin:

News Credits: 2 · Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:27 pm

I'm happy to be able to contribute here. Here are my steps of making my comics.

1. You need to have an idea first (that's pretty obvious). Since I make my story in small arcs (don't think I'm good at writing ongoing). I need to have an idea of what I want to talk about in this arc. For example, in the "Why so serious" series, the main purpose is to have Jazz trying to find his missing speakers. Another sub object for this series is to have other toys besides TFs involved in this story so there you saw Batman, Minions, plush Kirbys, couple of my daughter's dolls, and Lego Friends.

2. After having the idea, I started writing scripts (dialogues) on MS Word (for spelling checks

). Usually my script is one or two chapters ahead of my posted chapter. For example, when you see I posted "EOTA SS 6", my script is already at "EOTA SS 8" or "EOTA SS 9". My bad habit is sometimes I jump to the conclusion too fast ("EOTA SS6" was a good example) so few times I have to explain my own story. This part I have to keep improving on.

3. This part is pretty much my own preferences. I like my visual screen easy and simple to read. So when I write the dialogues, I try not to put too much words in one dialogue (bubble). No offense on other people but I really don't like seeing one picture with a bubble with too much words like a paragraph (this has not happened here but on another forum). That makes the font so small and hard to read. I even saw some people writing four or five sentences in small red texts on black background without bubble. That really makes my eyes hurt and I just give up on reading them.

4. Gather toys and taking pictures. Lighting is the most important part. And also try to avoid the blurry. I saw comics (again, not on here but other forums) that were just dark and blurry. Again, I give up on them so quickly ignoring how the story is. If I need to take shots in dark due to story (which I did), provide enough lights as well (either from LED flash lights or computer screen lights).

5. Photoshop or MS Paint. Copy-paste the dialogues and create bubbles here. And then pray people will like and enjoy my story.

News Credits: 2 · Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:56 pm

I also like to try to follow each character's characteristics/personality as much as possible. Some may follow G1 and some may follow IDW depends on my preference (for example, my Sixshot will never be a ninja commander but a phase sixer and my Bumblebee will always be useless like he was in G1). That means when you see Prowl showed up, he won't do some stupid things like Hot Rod did. I may still try to make some fun out of him but won't change his serious/stubborn attitude.

News Credits: 6188 · Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:59 pm

Aha, thanks paul053!

I never really look at any figure's supposed personality, actually, other than their name. I tend to use their initials in order to give them a new name. Like the Predacons, for example, where Airazor is Arjan, and Blight is Beatrix. Cynthia and Swindle also work on assonance of the /s/.

But I agree on the sharpness of the image, and again, on the legibility of the text. Very good points.