Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

First off, do you mean something happened to tfsource at botcon or the third party company? Just curious is all.

Secondly, mtmte isn't a war comic, the war is over. Which is good, yes there's galvatron leading a sorts of uprising but that's in the other book, which, again, is good. That way each book has their own distinct voice.

Secondly, I'm quite content to see everything through to the #100 issue spectacular (if a reboot happens, I hope it's after as it can easily be explained by the death of the inevitable unicron appearance, and all the dimensional shanigans that will bring)

We'll have to see what tone windblades new series takes.

"the war is over", what happens to the Autobots and Decepticons now? Can they learn to live in peace?

It doesn't matter that your book says #1, to new readers it sounds like they're jumping into the middle of a story. Nobody wants to jump in at the middle, readers want to start at the beginning.

So what you're saying is that either idw should stop doing ongoing and just do mini series (like they did at the beginning before people demanded an ongoing to tell the story with out breaking it apart with gaps between the series) or that a reboot happens each issue.

Though really it sounds like you want them to go back to the very early days where each issue was its own thing with very little continuity connecting them. Like kids comics these days.

ZeroWolf wrote:So what you're saying is that either idw should stop doing ongoing and just do mini series (like they did at the beginning before people demanded an ongoing to tell the story with out breaking it apart with gaps between the series) or that a reboot happens each issue.

Though really it sounds like you want them to go back to the very early days where each issue was its own thing with very little continuity connecting them. Like kids comics these days.

Idw shouldn't have 2-3 Transformers titles in the same continuity. They should have something for readers who want to read a comic that doesn't have several running sub plots and characters changed beyond recognition. No "Autobot Megatron", because truthfully I don't even know why the Autobots hate IDW Megatron. They're as evil as their shattered glass counterparts, while all Megatron has done is blow a few holes in some robots that were trying to send him to the scrap heap. I've heard of him doing evil things in IDW, but I haven't seen him do much. Plus he helped save the planet twice.

Ah but here's the kicker. Megatron has been the villain for none of the non game media. It's galvatron whose the bug bad now, in the comics, and on the big screen. So why should they push megs when he's a nonentity. I mean look, he turns into galvatrons head in the new toy line! Maybe when the movies are rebooted we'll get megs back across all formats (I mean the movies will be rebooted, as soon as bay leaves it'll happen)

ZeroWolf wrote:Ah but here's the kicker. Megatron has been the villain for none of the non game media. It's galvatron whose the bug bad now, in the comics, and on the big screen. So why should they push megs when he's a nonentity. I mean look, he turns into galvatrons head in the new toy line! Maybe when the movies are rebooted we'll get megs back across all formats (I mean the movies will be rebooted, as soon as bay leaves it'll happen)

Megatron was supposed to be the big bad in the comics before he got replaced by Galvatron, and now he's seeking redemption... but for what? Everyone is bad in IDW. If I was a kid who started with TF and MTMTE #1 I wouldn't get what the fuss was all about. It looks like two opposing armies or political parties. And it's not about pushing Meg's. It's about "character growth" that doesn't mean much because the reader never really gets to know the character's flaws in the first place, other than he's evil and he's trying to downgrade to just being less... evil.

Megatron is a nuclear ass-kicker. He's got to own it!

1984forever wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Ah but here's the kicker. Megatron has been the villain for none of the non game media. It's galvatron whose the bug bad now, in the comics, and on the big screen. So why should they push megs when he's a nonentity. I mean look, he turns into galvatrons head in the new toy line! Maybe when the movies are rebooted we'll get megs back across all formats (I mean the movies will be rebooted, as soon as bay leaves it'll happen)

Megatron was supposed to be the big bad in the comics before he got replaced by Galvatron, and now he's seeking redemption... but for what? Everyone is bad in IDW. If I was a kid who started with TF and MTMTE #1 I wouldn't get what the fuss was all about. It looks like two opposing armies or political parties. And it's not about pushing Meg's. It's about "character growth" that doesn't mean much because the reader never really gets to know the character's flaws in the first place, other than he's evil and he's trying to downgrade to just being less... evil.

Your missing the point, they are pushing galvatron now. You know, a guy older and more powerful than megs. He's also a baddie in the all important live action movies. It creates a nice synergy, heck I don't think it'll be long before he appears in rid.

It's funny how you mention character growth, as that's what's happening with megs, he's realised that his way was corrupted by the bloodshed. You keep overlooking things that are plain to many others, and again, you keep focusing on mtmte so I ask you...why do you read it? There must be something that keeps you enough to want to know what happens next otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation (well not using current examples as you could just say, tried it and didn't like it)

Also I'm not sure what else we can cover with this as it's clear there's not much we agree on regarding the comics

I actually stopped downloading MTMTE for my personal collection a few issues ago. I'm not the only TF fan in NY, so I still get to read it.


Barber and Roberts sales are almost identical even though Roberts is supposed to be so much better than Barber. So what this tells me is that the TF comic fan base has boiled down to about 7000 fans right now who will buy ANYTHING similar to the 2 main titles. So I guess the only thing left for IDW to do is keep adding titles set in their current continuity and sell a quick 7 to 8 thousand copies per new title, because increasing readership to 9000 on the two main titles is a lost cause.

Are those total sales or just physical copy sales?

End of the day, these are decisions that hasbro and idw must make to reach the largest market (hint: you're not part of that with your ideas as they would try and make it more like marvel and dc...With robots)

In fact we may get to the point one day where hasbro strikes an even stronger deal with disney, so marvel gets the license (good point: hello circuit breaker! Bad point: event ever year and it will be even more like the movies)

Botcon booted TFsource for selling third party offsite somewhere. I think. Their area was covered by a blanket Saturday morning. Don't worry. The merchandise was protected by supercop.

I want the war back. I want Optimus to grow a pair. I like the concept of the scavengers and the djd. I don't like the concept of any kind of robotic romantic relationships. The relationships and the holo avatars are a blatant attempt to make transformers more relatable. Gotta think it's meant to promote social diversity. Whatever. That stuff belongs in the back of the book as a PSA. Which is why I think all these subplots are an intentional attempt at social engineering. Roberts denial of calculation is what really pissed me off. He's a smart guy. He knew what he was doing. I don't like being lied to.

ZeroWolf wrote:Are those total sales or just physical copy sales?

End of the day, these are decisions that hasbro and idw must make to reach the largest market (hint: you're not part of that with your ideas as they would try and make it more like marvel and dc...With robots)

In fact we may get to the point one day where hasbro strikes an even stronger deal with disney, so marvel gets the license (good point: hello circuit breaker! Bad point: event ever year and it will be even more like the movies)

They are physical copy sales. But even if you were to argue that e-sales doubled MTMTE #50 sales from 10,439 to over 20000, MTMTE would still sell poorly compared to Batman who sold 163,406 not including his e sales.

TMNT #56 - 16,332
MLP Friendship #40 - 14,530
TMNT Deviations - 13,335
MLP Forever #26 - 12,059
MTMTE #50 - 10,439
TF Deviations - 9,196
MTMTE #51 - 8,124
TF #51 - 8,177

MTMTE hit the 10,000 mark because of the 50th issue, but then dropped back down into the 8000s, where it was beaten by Barber's Transformers. Deviations beat both TF and MTMTE #51 because G1 SELLS.

Ah but don't you see what happens when you get your precious g1? You get deviations...which also might of sold better because it was part of a mini series with people collecting all the deviations.

Point is you need to be careful what you wish for. As the g1 series you want will either be of deviation quality (which hasbro signed off on) or be gi joe v transformers quality.

ZeroWolf wrote:Ah but don't you see what happens when you get your precious g1? You get deviations...which also might of sold better because it was part of a mini series with people collecting all the deviations.

Point is you need to be careful what you wish for. As the g1 series you want will either be of deviation quality (which hasbro signed off on) or be gi joe v transformers quality.

I believe it, and it''s sad that IDW doesn't get Transformers.

Transformers is supposed to be about robots fighting over energy, plain and simple. Imagine how much gas your car would need if you kept the engine running all day? How about if your car raced around at top speed fighting a war? The Transformers use up a ton of energy. They can't make a power cell to fuel themselves more efficiently in much the same way we can't create a vitamin that would totally eliminate the need for food. They have to drink what is the equivalent of a pink gasoline smoothie.

All disagreements the Transformers have should stem from a lack of energy and what methods should be used to obtain it. For example- Should we wait and strive for a scientific solution? Or should every Autobot be destroyed in order to decrease the strain on Cybertron's dwindling fuel supply? Or should the Decepticons just be allowed to venture forth and drain inhabited planets of it's energy resources? Etc.

IMO these are better reasons to fight other than "my alt mode shouldn't define me!" Or "Primus created us to fight Unicron, but we got bored and decided to fight amongst ourselves."

But that's what happened in marvels tf run. In idw the war came about because of the class system, and because of the power hungry people in charge who wanted control of everyone. These are sentient robots who are capable of complex thoughts and to distill all motivations to I just need energy is kind of insulting. Not every human war was fought over resources.

1984forever wrote:"Primus created us to fight Unicron, but we got bored and decided to fight amongst ourselves."

And this is why I give your view little to no credit. You say IDW doesn't get Transformers? You don't get it either.

I understand that survival sells. Kirkman would agree with me.

The walking dead though is looking at how people react in extreme conditions and is extremely character focused with character growth abundant with no one remaining who they once we're, for better or worse...doesn't sound like your idea as they would break out of their tech spec confines quite easily and evolve new traits and ideas that could dramatically shift their perspectives...like autobot megatron

ZeroWolf wrote:The walking dead though is looking at how people react in extreme conditions and is extremely character focused with character growth abundant with no one remaining who they once we're, for better or worse...doesn't sound like your idea as they would break out of their tech spec confines quite easily and evolve new traits and ideas that could dramatically shift their perspectives...like autobot megatron

These tech specs were written about them after they had been at war for millions of years. I don't believe Transformers change easily.

There's so much growth and change in IDW Transformers but sales continue to decline

1984forever wrote:There's so much growth and change in IDW Transformers but sales continue to decline

Sales have been on the decline since the end of the original Dreamwave 6-issue miniseries, which was a strong seller because it was riding a tidal-wave of retro combined with being the first Transformers comic in an age. The nostalgia bubble has truly burst - even Hasbro and Takara rarely reissue old G1 toys these days.

Hasbro are clearly "into" what IDW are putting out and as Hasbro are the owners of Transformers themselves, I'd say its safe to say that IDW "get" what Transformers is as otherwise they'd have lost their license by now. As it currently stands IDW play a large role in the development in Transformers and there is even a cross dialogue between comic and toydesign that we never had during G1.

Transformers is 32 years old now. After 32 years - I don't want to see another retelling of GenerationOne. I lived through that as a kid and have had my nostalgia trip many times over.

1984 - Arguing about declining comic sales as if you're aware of 100% of the market is (imo) a little foolish. IDW are the comic book company (ie - the experts and businessmen) and if they thought that returning back to the original series would yield more sales then thats exactly what they would do - but they haven't, which suggests their market research points squarely at them keeping their current line-up.

Comparing the sales of Batman (a comic with DECADES more history and legions more fans) to Transformers isn't really a good way to focus, either. Looking around Transformers' immediate territory - He-Man, My Little Pony or Sonic The Hedgehog - you'll see that its doing roughly what the market is doing. Dreamwave's initial run was spectacular in terms of sales, but thats due to the climate it was released in (see my previous comment).

As a Transformers fan, I'm thankful to IDW for highlighting characters that were previously overshadowed. Giving characters like Trailbreaker, Chromedome, Tailgate, Overlord and Arcee such depth has been refreshing from the usual Megs\Starscream\Grimlock nonsense. Setting those characters in a new setting, outside of intergalactic war as been interesting - we've seen the war retold many times over already and its refreshing to see Transformer culture, philosophy, politics and inter-personal relationships explored through this scope.

On the subject of Megatron - they've taken the idea of "Peace Through Tyranny" and given that a deep meaning for the character. Given him emotional and idealistic motivations behind a war above and beyond the fact he was build to be a bad guy and wanted energon. In a comic lasting a decade - you need something like that, too - otherwise your characters have a background of very little depth and therefore very little growth potential. Writers will often tell you that characters write themselves, once they're in motion and after giving Megatron (and many other characters) his rich history - his development spiraled out from there, in an organic way. This, in my opinion is good story-telling as opposed to the bad which is a He-Man styled reset after every story-arc ending in a big battle with everyone going home afterwards like its the most recent ball-game.

As I said before, people stopped reading because they didn't like the material. It doesn't matter if it was DW or IDW, they stopped reading it. All the stuff IDW is doing is just getting them less readers, not more.

If you're bored with TFs after 32 years and you need them to change, then maybe you should move on? Because all IDW and it's fans are doing is moving Transformers toward cancellation.

And those Hasbro execs that you put so much trust in? They use the TF boards as a focus group, which IMO is part of the problem.

1984forever wrote:If you're bored with TFs after 32 years and you need them to change, then maybe you should move on? Because all IDW and it's fans are doing is moving Transformers toward cancellation.

And those Hasbro execs that you put so much trust in? They use the TF boards as a focus group.

I didn't say I was bored with Transformers after 32 years - I'm simply bored with the same G1 stories being re-trotted out endlessly. IDW is a welcome change to that.

Given that as it stands the Transformers brand hasn't been as strong as it has been in a very, very long time - I'd say its right to put your faith in the Hasbro executives. They invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into market research, focus-groups and playtesting before anything is event advertised - they know the toy market much, much better than we do. We currently have three toylines running, aimed at different age groups (RID, Combiner Wars and Rescue Force) with the additional movie-line and platinum sub-line - theres never been so much choice available as a collector and that wide-range reflects how much Transformers has grown in recent years.

If Hasbro felt that IDW were harming the Transformers brand or were going to be running the comic into bankruptcy (or if IDW were doing so badly they were failing to pay the appropriate dividends) - then IDW would have their license revoked. Instead we see IDW comics bundled with figures and IDW-inspired designs being brought into the comic. This is Hasbro's nod of faith to IDW, which is returned when collectors and children buy the toys - which is the whole point of the exercise - to sell toys.

Using Transformers Forums as a focus group will show Hasbro (quite rightly, imo) that IDW is popular among Transformers fans and their designs are often among the most requested figures to be made. If you wanted to make a serious point to Hasbro about how you feel about the current angle of Transformers comics - then make a Change.Org petition and find out how many signatures you get after passing it around the community.

Really good posts amelie

Amelie, if you want to talk toys...

I didn't buy Skids or Springer because I didn't like the IDW design. My son loves Devastation, but Hasbro didn't make enough of those G1 based characters that were featured in the game, so I couldn't buy them for him because they didn't make them. Money lost there as well. My son doesn't like the pack in comics. He can't trade them at school for Pokemon cards or Lego people because the other 8 year olds don't like them either. So no new little TF fans there.

The packaging says 8 and up, so the comics should appeal to 8 and up. Not just to adults who have witnessed every fight between Prime and Megatron for the last 30yrs, and now they want them to make love not war.

I disagree with Amelie. If the comics were good they wouldn't be given away for free. It's the opposite of a vote of confidence. The free comics are meant for people and kids who don't normally read comics to try them out with a free sample. The comics with toys are a failed exercise in marketing. If the comics were good after a year of free samples with figures then sales should be much higher.

Furthermore. The way Hasbro coopted (hijacked) the story to promote CW indicates a lack of concern for said story. CW was horrible. Enigma of Combination? Gimme a break. These guys tried writing a compelling story for the origin of combiner tech for years. With miserable results. Marvel's explanation was the simplest and the best. IDW overthought it with weak results.