The Energon Pub

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Here's another weird idea. What if "S" is actually Slammer, and not Sixgun? That would pretty much make the Autobot Cityformers complete when we get Sixgun later on. I'm also betting on getting the Decepticon Cityformer buddies Brunt and Fasttrack in this way. That's five Deluxe Partsformers for a line set to be one year long with presumably four waves total. Giving the first wave two of them and then just one new for each additional wave would work out just right.

Would not mind this at all. I like the idea behind the weaponizer deluxes anyways

[Rodimus Prime]

I still think Hasbro missed the boat in PotP with Star Saber. The gimmick was practically tailor made for that character. Any chance he'll be in WFC Siege?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I still think Hasbro missed the boat in PotP with Star Saber. The gimmick was practically tailor made for that character. Any chance he'll be in WFC Siege?

While there is a good chance we could see a Star Saber and a Deathsaurus in coming years, I doubt it'll be in Siege. The detailing and paint work doesn't really ring that well for Saber.

That said, I really think that whenever we do eventually get a Star Saber, we need a Victory Leo. You should not have one without the other. Flame Toys is doing a killer job with those 2, and I'd like to see some retail transforming ones

[Autobot N]

I still think Hasbro missed the boat in PotP with Star Saber. The gimmick was practically tailor made for that character. Any chance he'll be in WFC Siege?

Yeah. I think he and Magnus were probably the best choices for the vote. Alas, it was not to be.

I still wish Shockwave would have won, though

[Sabrblade]

I still think Hasbro missed the boat in PotP with Star Saber. The gimmick was practically tailor made for that character.

I don't think it's so much that they missed the opportunity for Star Saber, but more that they were expecting Star Saber to be the winner of the fan poll so much that they made the Leader class gimmick especially for him, and planned to start the line with Optimus Prime and Rodimus Prime (the first two major Matrix-bearing Primes) having the same gimmick in anticipation of Star Saber... only for Optimus Primal to instead be the one given the most fan votes instead, leaving Hasbro having to make an Optimus Primal toy using Star Saber's main gimmick instead of making Star Saber himself.

Sure, Hasbro said that they had done designs for all of the candidates in case any of them might have won, but it's obviously Star Saber whom they were expecting (and hoping) to win since, like you said, the gimmick is pretty much his (well, his and fellow candidate Ultra Magnus's). Though, they were also seemingly pushing for Deathsaurus as well what with their forcing "Unknown Evil" into the final round as a "wild card", but as we know, that didn't happen either.

[Rodimus Prime]

I still think Hasbro missed the boat in PotP with Star Saber. The gimmick was practically tailor made for that character.

I don't think it's so much that they missed the opportunity for Star Saber, but more that they were expecting Star Saber to be the winner of the fan poll so much that they made the Leader class gimmick especially for him, and planned to start the line with Optimus Prime and Rodimus Prime (the first two major Matrix-bearing Primes) having the same gimmick in anticipation of Star Saber... only for Optimus Primal to instead be the one given the most fan votes instead, leaving Hasbro having to make an Optimus Primal toy using Star Saber's main gimmick instead of making Star Saber himself.

Sure, Hasbro said that they had done designs for all of the candidates in case any of them might have won, but it's obviously Star Saber whom they were expecting (and hoping) to win since, like you said, the gimmick is pretty much his (well, his and fellow candidate Ultra Magnus's). Though, they were also seemingly pushing for Deathsaurus as well what with their forcing "Unknown Evil" into the final round as a "wild card", but as we know, that didn't happen either.

But would the fandom have gotten upset if they went and released Star Saber after Primal anyway? I mean, I guess it would have made future poll winners kind of a moot point and the polls a bit of a joke, but really, I wouldn't have held it against them. And these days, they're dropping the ball on a lot of opportunities.

[Sabrblade]

But would the fandom have gotten upset if they went and released Star Saber after Primal anyway? I mean, I guess it would have made future poll winners kind of a moot point and the polls a bit of a joke, but really, I wouldn't have held it against them. And these days, they're dropping the ball on a lot of opportunities.

At this point we really don't know if they even could have released another new Leader after Primal since he was the last one of the line's short-lived lifespan. The whole thing makes look like POTP it was cut short as far as things like the Prime Masters and (maybe) the Deluxes are concerned. But if they intended for the fan poll winner to be the final new mold Leader of the line, then perhaps there was no room for a Star Saber to come after Primal. Maybe there was a set quota of no more than three Leader molds for the line*, with both Optimus and Rodimus possibly being already set in stone to happen regardless of who the winner of the third Leader mold slot would be.


* -- After all, each phase of new-mold Generations Leader class figures has always been small, with Thrilling 30 having 1 (Jetfire), CW having 2 (the Megatrons and Ultra Magnus) plus 3 retools of the previous one (the Seekers), and TR having 3 (Blaster/Soundwave, Sixshot, and Sky Shadow/Overlord) plus 1 retool of a previous one (Powermaster OP).

EDIT: Looking back further, it seems that the entire history of the Leader class (beginning with the Cybertron line, since that's where the name originated) has always been limited to no more than three new molds per line.

• Cybertron: 3 - Optimus Prime/Galaxy Force OP, Megatron/Galvatron, Metroplex
• Movie 1: 3 - Optimus Prime/Nightwatch OP/Premium Series OP, Megatron/Premium Series Megs, Brawl/Deep Desert Brawl
• Animated: 3 - Bulkhead, Megatron/Shadow Blade Megatron, Ultra Magnus/Roadbuster UM
• ROTF: 3 - Optimus Prime/ALL reuses, Megatron/Shadow Command Megs, Jetfire
• 2010: 2 - Starscream, Battle Ops Bumblebee
• DOTM: 3 - Bumblebee, Sentinel Prime, Ironhide
• AOE: 2 - Optimus Prime, Grimlock
• TLK: 3 - Optimus Prime, Megatron, Dragonstorm
• Studio Series: 2 (so far, admittedly) - Grimlock, Blackout

[Wolfman Jake]

But would the fandom have gotten upset if they went and released Star Saber after Primal anyway? I mean, I guess it would have made future poll winners kind of a moot point and the polls a bit of a joke, but really, I wouldn't have held it against them. And these days, they're dropping the ball on a lot of opportunities.

At this point we really don't know if they even could have released another new Leader after Primal since he was the last one of the line's short-lived lifespan. The whole thing makes look like POTP it was cut short as far as things like the Prime Masters and (maybe) the Deluxes are concerned.

You know, now that I think about it, what would Hasbro have done in terms of characters for the Voyager class had PotP not been cut short? It's easy to think of what we would have gotten with Prime Masters (Pretender shells like Waverider and Stranglehold), Legends (Flywheels, Goldbug, other miscellaneous '87 Minibots), Deluxe (Greenlight, Lancer, Jazz redeco/retool, etc.), and even Leader (Star Sabre, etc.). The only thing I could think of would be a redeco/retool of Inferno into Grapple, but switching out the "ladder" for a crane arm would be tricky, as the bucket is where the combiner mode head hides on the base mold.

[Nemesis Primal]

You know, now that I think about it, what would Hasbro have done in terms of characters for the Voyager class had PotP not been cut short? It's easy to think of what we would have gotten with Prime Masters (Pretender shells like Waverider and Stranglehold), Legends (Flywheels, Goldbug, other miscellaneous '87 Minibots), Deluxe (Greenlight, Lancer, Jazz redeco/retool, etc.), and even Leader (Star Sabre, etc.). The only thing I could think of would be a redeco/retool of Inferno into Grapple, but switching out the "ladder" for a crane arm would be tricky, as the bucket is where the combiner mode head hides on the base mold.

My guess: a redeco/retool of the Grimlock mold, and a stand-alone retail Snaptrap (which some people have suggested as a heavy retool of Grimlock anyway, so these two suggestions could be one and the same) ala Betatron Scattorshot. The Grimlock mold presumably has an alternate head we have yet to see, right?

Plus, we know at least two other limb bots have alternate heads/accessories for Monstructor/Dinoking, so that would/could have maybe been a box set, with the torso bots being weird amalgamated single characters like Dezarus? I know, I know, "the TR box sets didn't sell well, two of them might have been cancelled, they probably aren't doing more", I get that that's the general consensus right now, but the combiner box sets sold better than TR, right? They might be saving the big boxes for just full combiners and obviously Titans now, and we just haven't gotten the confirmation yet due to the shortening of POTP.

Grapple would have taken more planning, presumably, given Inferno was already a spare unused alternate CW head with no other retooling whatsoever, so I don't think he would have showed his face just yet. Although given what you just said about the combiner head placement, I'm now imagining a combiner head with a crane hook ponytail, and I'm...honestly not sure how I feel about it.

[Rodimus Prime]

I think it would be easier to retool Starscream into Snaptrap rather than Grimlock. Both the robot mode and the torso mode are closer to PotP Starscream. As for the jet mode, all they need to do is chop off the nosecone, the wings, replacing them with a shell, and reconfigure the legs and arms so that it can stand on 4 legs in turtle mode. Grimlock is too bulky in robot mode, his torso mode is worse than Motormaster's (which I didn't think was possible), and I don't see how that T-Rex can be retooled into a turtle easier than the jet.

[Flashwave]

Damn it, I don't need a leader shocky. I need a voyager and a deluxe.

Hasbro was very clear that this line would be robot mode scale accurate. So that posits a problem for the leader class which only has a few characters that would work (like Jetfire and Ultra Magnus, as we saw in the previous Gen lines). Which makes me truly believe that there is an armour up/extra accessory gimmick going on here, giving us a voyager sized shockwave at a leader price. Just like TLK Sqweaks was a smaller toy with accessories sold as a deluxe. And more specifically, like Ultra Magnus who is a confirmed voyager sized white prime that comes with armour. Plus, since they also confirmed that they had made mock ups of all the possible winners of the prime contest, there is a "voyager" sized shockwave out there already designed that would end up at a leader class price point.

Anyways, all the evidence points to this shockwave being in perfect scale with a voyager Megatron. The only thing that some fans might not like is that they still have to pay a leader price for him on accessories/armour they might not need.

Not so thrilled about deluxe class seekers though.

My only complaint if they do role out their unused designs is that it sort of cheapens the poll from PotP a bit. It wouldn't be "Which character should get a new toy with this gimmick?!" It'd just be, which do you want first. Which, while I acknowledge they'll always use the characters multiple times, annoys me because if they're using the evolution gimmick, then there's a gimmick that doesn't belong. If it's a case with Ultra Magnus, it works because that was his design. But Shockwave was never a power-up. It should have been either Star Saber or Thunderwing then. Idk, just my two cents

I wasnt referring to the power up per se, I was referring to them already having designs for a "voyager sized" shockwave, meaning the one that would have gotten a power up in POTP. They could start from that smaller figure and build around it differently, or give it added accessories. I do not think we will be getting exactly what we would have gotten if he would have won.

Regardless, I sure as **** hope Trypticon winning the titan vote does not mean we will never get an Omega Supreme of Scorponok. That would suck hard, dont care if it means the titan poll ends up cheapened a little.

Oh, I'm not saying that we should never get the "losers" of a poll. I just don't think when they do get their next figure they should be what the poll was for. (Still never understood why Trypticon won the Titans Return poll when Scorponok was there...) Basically, if Omega's this years titan, he shouldn't be a headmaster. My point is they shouldn't do more power up guys, unless it makes sense. Primal shows what happens when a design that was never meant to evolve, does

Strictly Conjecture, but I dont think everyone wants a Titan Sized Scorponok the way they do Trypticon Trypty was always a huge not, but Scorponok has been portrayed more as more akin to a Leader Class size (or Supreme, but that class is dead) and would fit just as well as Overlord did in the Leader. Plus, Trypticon did somethin different than the orher two in that he was bot an anthropamorphic Robot Mode. So he was "New"

As to Supreme, I doubt he'll go Energon style headmaster. I would prefer the Ark mode myself, but I could see them doing something where the inner tank whixh in G1 already had spindly passable things that could be arms and legs become an inner robot and the track builds around him. Maybe they could figure out a way that instead if all the pieces being loose, the boots and backpack unfold the way Trypticons Legs doand you have only a few parts

[Sabrblade]

Wasn't it said somewhere way back when Hun-Gurrr was first shown by Hasbro that his head pretool was that of Snaptrap?

[Counterpunch]

What if that Leader Shockwave is actually a smaller bot figure like Magnus and he comes with Onyx Prime gear? The IDWness of such a possibility is

[Rodimus Prime]

Being a comics fan, I'd much prefer a leader class Scorponok over a Titan Class one. Give his spot in the Titan line to Tidal Wave!

[Emerje]

I know, I know, "the TR box sets didn't sell well, two of them might have been cancelled, they probably aren't doing more", I get that that's the general consensus right now, but the combiner box sets sold better than TR, right? They might be saving the big boxes for just full combiners and obviously Titans now, and we just haven't gotten the confirmation yet due to the shortening of POTP.

Pretty sure it's the other way around. The CW box sets sold poorly for the most part with some still available at or below retail price today. It's the TR sets that were highly desired and hard to get since not all TRU stores were well stocked and the BBTS exclusive sold out in pre-orders. The theory is that the TR sets were canceled based on poor CW sales, but the first two sets were already in production and contracted to their respective stores so it was too late to cancel them.

Wasn't it said somewhere way back when Hun-Gurrr was first shown by Hasbro that his head pretool was that of Snaptrap?

I think it was theorized that it could be done, but the popular guess was that it was IDW Strafe's head that was being covered up when we got our first look at the figure based on the what we could see of the shape of the head.

Hungurrr.JPG (12.5 KiB) Viewed 10902 times

They seemed to make this mistake again late in production and removed Hun-Gurrr's head from one of the images on the back of the box. They could photoshop a Prime Master into his armor but not the right head on his shoulders apparently.

HeadlessHungurrr.JPG (24.48 KiB) Viewed 10902 times

Emerje

[Nemesis Primal]

I think it would be easier to retool Starscream into Snaptrap rather than Grimlock. Both the robot mode and the torso mode are closer to PotP Starscream. As for the jet mode, all they need to do is chop off the nosecone, the wings, replacing them with a shell, and reconfigure the legs and arms so that it can stand on 4 legs in turtle mode. Grimlock is too bulky in robot mode, his torso mode is worse than Motormaster's (which I didn't think was possible), and I don't see how that T-Rex can be retooled into a turtle easier than the jet.

Fair enough. I was merely repeating conjecture I had heard others say, I wasn't entirely sure how turning Grimlock into Snaptrap would have worked. I wasn't a child of G1, so I've never actually handled any of the Seacons before (which is part of why I really want them remade/updated), so my understanding of how Snaptrap transforms was formed by secondhand info and my own guesswork looking at pictures of him on TFWiki. If I was wrong, oh well, so be it.

I know, I know, "the TR box sets didn't sell well, two of them might have been cancelled, they probably aren't doing more", I get that that's the general consensus right now, but the combiner box sets sold better than TR, right? They might be saving the big boxes for just full combiners and obviously Titans now, and we just haven't gotten the confirmation yet due to the shortening of POTP.

Pretty sure it's the other way around. The CW box sets sold poorly for the most part with some still available at or below retail price today. It's the TR sets that were highly desired and hard to get since not all TRU stores were well stocked and the BBTS exclusive sold out in pre-orders. The theory is that the TR sets were canceled based on poor CW sales, but the first two sets were already in production and contracted to their respective stores so it was too late to cancel them.

Wasn't it said somewhere way back when Hun-Gurrr was first shown by Hasbro that his head pretool was that of Snaptrap?

I think it was theorized that it could be done, but the popular guess was that it was IDW Strafe's head that was being covered up when we got our first look at the figure based on the what we could see of the shape of the head.

Hungurrr.JPG

They seemed to make this mistake again late in production and removed Hun-Gurrr's head from one of the images on the back of the box. They could photoshop a Prime Master into his armor but not the right head on his shoulders apparently.

HeadlessHungurrr.JPG

Emerje

Again, I'm probably wrong, you're probably right. That seems to have been a reoccurring theme these days. I took a TF break during Combiner Wars and the start of Titans Return, which I still regret to this day, so I didn't really hear about all the box set drama until after the fact. I'm honestly surprised Computron and Liokaiser didn't sell better, if that's the case, but UW Computron exists that most people like more, and people were upset about the whole Dezarus thing, so...

As for Hun-Gurrr, Strafe kinda makes more sense. They'd have to mess with Hun-Gurrr a lot to get a turtle from that that wouldn't look terrible/be complained about.

[Rodimus Prime]

I think it would be easier to retool Starscream into Snaptrap rather than Grimlock. Both the robot mode and the torso mode are closer to PotP Starscream. As for the jet mode, all they need to do is chop off the nosecone, the wings, replacing them with a shell, and reconfigure the legs and arms so that it can stand on 4 legs in turtle mode. Grimlock is too bulky in robot mode, his torso mode is worse than Motormaster's (which I didn't think was possible), and I don't see how that T-Rex can be retooled into a turtle easier than the jet.

Fair enough. I was merely repeating conjecture I had heard others say, I wasn't entirely sure how turning Grimlock into Snaptrap would have worked. I wasn't a child of G1, so I've never actually handled any of the Seacons before (which is part of why I really want them remade/updated), so my understanding of how Snaptrap transforms was formed by secondhand info and my own guesswork looking at pictures of him on TFWiki. If I was wrong, oh well, so be it.

I wasn't trying to come down on you with "OMG ur so wrong!!!" so if it read that way, my apologies. I hadn't heard the idea that Snaptrap could be a retool of a PotP Voyager, so I just kinda ran with it.

As for Snaptrap's transformation, now that I think of it, the CW Voyager Silverbolt mold comes the closest when it comes to turning him into a torso, with the legs folding up and the head and arms folding down.

[Flashwave]

I think it would be easier to retool Starscream into Snaptrap rather than Grimlock. Both the robot mode and the torso mode are closer to PotP Starscream. As for the jet mode, all they need to do is chop off the nosecone, the wings, replacing them with a shell, and reconfigure the legs and arms so that it can stand on 4 legs in turtle mode. Grimlock is too bulky in robot mode, his torso mode is worse than Motormaster's (which I didn't think was possible), and I don't see how that T-Rex can be retooled into a turtle easier than the jet.

Fair enough. I was merely repeating conjecture I had heard others say, I wasn't entirely sure how turning Grimlock into Snaptrap would have worked. I wasn't a child of G1, so I've never actually handled any of the Seacons before (which is part of why I really want them remade/updated), so my understanding of how Snaptrap transforms was formed by secondhand info and my own guesswork looking at pictures of him on TFWiki. If I was wrong, oh well, so be it.

I wasn't trying to come down on you with "OMG ur so wrong!!!" so if it read that way, my apologies. I hadn't heard the idea that Snaptrap could be a retool of a PotP Voyager, so I just kinda ran with it.

As for Snaptrap's transformation, now that I think of it, the CW Voyager Silverbolt mold comes the closest when it comes to turning him into a torso, with the legs folding up and the head and arms folding down.

Ah, but which version of the [s]mould[/s] engineering will he not be a retool of?

[Nemesis Primal]

I wasn't trying to come down on you with "OMG ur so wrong!!!" so if it read that way, my apologies. I hadn't heard the idea that Snaptrap could be a retool of a PotP Voyager, so I just kinda ran with it.

As for Snaptrap's transformation, now that I think of it, the CW Voyager Silverbolt mold comes the closest when it comes to turning him into a torso, with the legs folding up and the head and arms folding down.

It didn't read that way, don't worry about it.

I mean, that engineering is regarded to make the most stable torso mode, so a Snaptrap from that certainly wouldn't be a bad thing. As long as he still turns into a Blastoise a good looking and well-armed neon pirate turtle.

[Emerje]

There is a way to turn Hun-Gurrr into a turtle with a lot of retooling, just flip him over. Basically lay the torso mode on its back so the chest armor becomes the shell, stick an extra pair of turtle legs on, and use the combiner feet on his back to complete the shell and add guns to them (like PotP Inferno) to finish the look.

Emerje

[Skritz]

Shame we likely won't see a CW-style set of Seacons just like we won't see TR Horrocon: those ships have long passed.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Shame we likely won't see a CW-style set of Seacons just like we won't see TR Horrocon: those ships have long passed.

The Design Team has stated in an interview that Combiners are not off the table. We may see Piranacon or even Monstructor yet, it's just they don't fully conform to the standard Scramble City template (Targetmaster, 6 members) and may need some more thought in order to make them work.

[Emerje]

Shame we likely won't see a CW-style set of Seacons just like we won't see TR Horrocon: those ships have long passed.

Probably not in the next three years, but you never know, if they are doing a beast theme in '21/'22 those ships could circle back.

Emerje

[Skritz]

Shame we likely won't see a CW-style set of Seacons just like we won't see TR Horrocon: those ships have long passed.

The Design Team has stated in an interview that Combiners are not off the table. We may see Piranacon or even Monstructor yet, it's just they don't fully conform to the standard Scramble City template (Targetmaster, 6 members) and may need some more thought in order to make them work.

The thing with the Seacons is that they are Scramble Combiners: just that each of them can do a half-assed targetmaster mode. They could have just released Nautilator as Legend class who turn into a gun for a half-assed third mode.

[Overcracker]

Shame we likely won't see a CW-style set of Seacons just like we won't see TR Horrocon: those ships have long passed.

The Design Team has stated in an interview that Combiners are not off the table. We may see Piranacon or even Monstructor yet, it's just they don't fully conform to the standard Scramble City template (Targetmaster, 6 members) and may need some more thought in order to make them work.

The thing with the Seacons is that they are Scramble Combiners: just that each of them can do a half-assed targetmaster mode. They could have just released Nautilator as Legend class who turn into a gun for a half-assed third mode.

Why does Nautilator always get relegated to the half-assed gun position. A proper deluxe is required to do him justice. Maybe use Tentakill, or Overbite as the gun instead.

No bias here, given that he was the only Seacon I ever had as a kid. Still have him sans all his accessories however.

The BBTS exclusive Seacon set was actually a pretty good box set. more so, if you managed to snag one for $35 bucks at the time.

In any case, its still sad we did not get the seacons as CW molds.