The Energon Pub

Didn't Cyb Prime Or Galvatron survive a black hole eruption or something absurd like that?? That whole series was ridiculous

They fought within a black hole that was threatening to destroy the multiverse. Prime knocked Galvatron from Cybertron to Speed planet and then fired a single blast from one of his waist cannons that caused an explosion that could be seen from space.

That's way above the stuff even from. The Energon cast took an explosion comparable to the size of Earth which knocked them into space and even the wekest was only stunned for a few minutes.

Has a concensus been reached yet?

No weaknesses? You mean other than the fact that a Gundam gets a nice shot in the back, it goes kaboom?

Gundams have weaknesses. Every Gundam has a weakness. From the original series up to the new 00.

To say "a Gundam is more destructive, more strong because it has no weaknesses" is a false comment all around.

Yes, a Gundam will have a good amount of agility. Up to their thruster capacity. However, a Transformer, going up against a Gundam, could easily duck in and out of cover.

Lets not forget that the Transformers have been at war for millenia. So they're pretty good at what they do.

Alien Robot Logic > Human Logic

Going up against a Gundam, what would be the first thing to happen? Well, if it's a Decepticon, they're going after the human inside. If it's an Autobot, they'll probably get onto the back of the Gundam and try to disable it without harming the human.

Now, for the weaponry. Gundam's have nice beam technology. However, the weapons can only be utilized in weaponry big enough for a giant mobile suit. While a Transformer has equally powerful weaponry(in some cases) on a very small scale.

Not to mention Alien Armor > Human manufactured mobile suit armor.

Yes, a shot taken full on from a Gundam Beam weapon would destroy a Transformer in one shot, given it's not one of the combiners. But the Transformers have a vast array of weapons. Ironhide alone with his chemical cannon could easily take out a gundam.

I'm not saying that the Transformers have no weaknesses.

But this fight, the Transformers have the advantage, easily. Essentially the fight boils down to a equal of shooting ants with a .45. Or similiar to the little people taking down Gulliver in Gulliver travels.


>>>>>>>>>>>>

oops youve got wrong idea man....are you sure that they can dock in????have you tried it??hell no,there's no way you can dock in into a gundam especially the wing series and dont forget the Turn A Gundam than never be defeated even it was built in an ancient time.and may i add this the blackhole that they fought is an ordinary blackhole the blackhole i mean is that can reverse time and space no tranzformer can ever built, and ive researched some almost of the tranzformerz are not smart.you only focusing on tranzformerz, thats why you cant compare some gundam or robots!!!!!


My best advice dont use drugs too much(tranzformers)

watch some other series too........

it's like your playing mario computer game in this ERA!


ok ^__^

Peaceout guys

hehehehe

CobrayGordon wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>

oops youve got wrong idea man....are you sure that they can dock in????have you tried it??hell no,there's no way you can dock in into a gundam especially the wing series and dont forget the Turn A Gundam than never be defeated even it was built in an ancient time.and may i add this the blackhole that they fought is an ordinary blackhole the blackhole i mean is that can reverse time and space no tranzformer can ever built, and ive researched some almost of the tranzformerz are not smart.you only focusing on tranzformerz, thats why you cant compare some gundam or robots!!!!!


My best advice dont use drugs too much(tranzformers)

watch some other series too........

it's like your playing mario computer game in this ERA!


ok ^__^

Peaceout guys

hehehehe

Well, since we're apparently flinging insults. I'd start with Learn 2 read.

Nobody said anything about docking.

However, I did say DUCK in and out of cover. Meaning. A smaller robot going up against a big robot, would move in and out of cover.

Yes, the Turn-A was never defeat, in the series it was in. So, I'm fairly certain it's winning streak wouldn't mean it automatically wins against a Transformer.

As for the whole black hole thing. Yeah, too easy.

Also, for me not being able to "compare some gundam or robots!!!!!" you're doing the exact same thing. Which is why you only mentioned the Gundam from Wing and the Turn-A just now.

Here is how this fight boils down. Transformers have superior weaponry. Proton cannons, fusion cannons, electro-scrambler gun, etc etc.

Gundams have beam technology, heated plasma fired from a gun. Beam sabers, heat-swords and heat-axes, plus, one Gundam has nuclear technology.

Gundams have better thrusters, so they would have more manuverability compared to most Transformers. However, their size when paired with the battlefield would make this advantage useless at best.

If they were fighting in space, which would most likely not happen. Gundams have the advantage and would win.

However, if they were going up against Transformers, it would most likely be ground battles, and more than likely in a city.

Now, lets get to the Gundams themselves. They are non-sentient giant robots. The pilots are what would make or break the battle. Only 2 Gundams have zero systems that a pilot could rely on. Even then, the only pilots that would stand a chance would be Newtypes, or whatever the Seed equivalent of Newtype is.

Even the G-fighters would be outmatched by a Transformer. Since they don't have a precognitive ability to help them in the fight. Plus, I doubt the God Gundam would withstand a shot from a fusion cannon.

Not to mention, I'm only mentioning G1 weapons and Transformers here. I could go into Cybertron, Armada and Energon Transformers and explain, in detail, how any one Transformer from those series grossly out matches any Gundam.

Like I said before. The only Gundams that would stand a chance against a Transformer, would be those with Newtype abilities or the equivalent.

However, the Wing 0 and the Epyon are exceptions. Not to mention the Epyon having no ranged weaponry would be a useless Gundam to use when going up against the smaller Transformers. So the Epyon's only use would be against a combiner or a city-former. So really only one Gundam with a Zero system would be of any use.

In fact, relying on mostly close combat weapons, like what the Gundams in the Wing series rely on(this excludes the Heavyarms and Wing/Wing0 of course) would make them useless against a normal Transformer, and all they would have to go up against them are the vulcan cannons.

Also, Transformers are smart. They may not be knowledgeable when it comes to human customs. However, they are friggin computers. Saying they aren't smart is ignorant.

Like I've said before, and several times. The Transformers would come out on top, because they have the advantage of more manuverability due to smaller size compared to a Gundam, and that they have more powerful weaponry. Not to mention the combiners and city-formers sheer power.

Gundams would come out on top in space, thats about it.

blackhole that they fought is an ordinary blackhole the blackhole i mean is that can reverse time and space no tranzformer can ever built,

It was the grand block hole created from the death of Unicron, it alterred history and was going to consume not only the universe it was in but every other one. Not a normal black hole.

Even the G-fighters would be outmatched by a Transformer. Since they don't have a precognitive ability to help them in the fight. Plus, I doubt the God Gundam would withstand a shot from a fusion cannon.

God Gundam would eat G1 Megatron alive. It's faster, stronger and the gundam it's an upgrade fired a beam which carved a city in two. It also survived a vast explosion that shattered the before impenitrable shields around the arena.

Inferno Prime wrote:

Even the G-fighters would be outmatched by a Transformer. Since they don't have a precognitive ability to help them in the fight. Plus, I doubt the God Gundam would withstand a shot from a fusion cannon.

God Gundam would eat G1 Megatron alive. It's faster, stronger and the gundam it's an upgrade fired a beam which carved a city in two. It also survived a vast explosion that shattered the before impenitrable shields around the arena.

Possible. However, lets look at the fusion cannon itself.

"Nuclear fusion, for the less scientifically-minded, is the process of forming a new atom by combining two or more smaller atoms. Because atoms have forces which act to prevent them from normally getting so close, this is a very difficult task. However, it is precisely because of this fact that so much energy is released when the atoms are joined. The exposive result of nuclear fusion is known as a fusion reaction."

This is what the fusion cannon does. A focused fusion reaction fired from a cannon. So it's going to be powerful as hell. While Megatron in the cartoon and some issues of the comic was unable to do much damage with the cannon, he was in one instance able to take out Predaking in a single shot.

If Megatron did the whole black hole anti-matter thing to power his fusion cannon. It would be even more powerful.

Going from a scientific standpoint(if a fusion cannon was in fact real) even though the God Gundam has as armor a ceramic hybrid gundarium alloy. I doubt it would stand up against a shot from the cannon.

However it could go both ways. Megatron would probably be too cocky going up against Domo, and the Domo would unleash his glowing finger attack and boom, no more Megatron.

To say Gundams can't hit TFs because they're smaller and faster is just wrong. Yes most are smaller but most don't have trusters. Gundams have targeting systems you know. And New Types can predict their opponents next move.

Mobile Suits are bigger, faster, stronger and most are more powerful. Some Gestalts are as big but most are very slugish when compared to the better Mobile Suits. Anyway I'm not sure 10 gestalts could beat 1 psycho gundam.

Let's take Optimus Prime. One of the most powerful bots. Megatron picked a handgun on the ground and turned him into swiss cheese. How strong is their armor when one of the strongest can be beaten down that easily?

If TF got to have every cannons why not Gundams too. If that's the case only the heroes of every series could well be enough to destroy every transformers in existance. Most are New Types others are genetically enhanced or just very skilled. Most of them have military training and experience. Some of them have weapon powerful enough to rip Unicron to pieces.

Wait... are we talking about every universe, or what? Again, Liege Maximo=galaxies of Transformers. Galaxies. I'm not a big fan of Gundam, but I bet one can just count numbers there.

And, on "fusion cannons," highly doubtful that'd even be possible, but even the fusion of only 2 hydrogen atoms creates about 16 megawatts, about enough energy to run Chicago for a few seconds. Add more, and one gets Hiroshima 1000 times over.

As well, though Transformers are smaller, they can keep going when blasted in half (at least depending on what writer's on at the moment), and any mobile suite only really has to be shot once. The height difference isn't much in itself either-- most Gundams register at about 15 meters, about 45 feet, while Movie Megatron is about 36 feet, and, the original Prime was up to 42 feet if going by the scale in the old cartoon.

And what's this "Optimus Prime beaten by a handgun"?

dont think tranzformerz can win in here own size(small size) or gigantic form. view this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbHKUMHlXc8 and you will know whats the difference of big size and small size robots,and i saw the event of unicron it didnt altered the universe and if correct me if it's not true coz i saw, that episode you know.mine is not an ordinary blackhole it's the reverse of the bi bang theory and no alien Technologie from tranzformerz that survive in a real reverse.BTW the robot that can reverse big bang is a Time Diver, and you dont even know what is a time diver.A Time Diver can travel in anytime and in any world meaning the birth of tranzformerz will become none and the history of the two super beings that is Seibertron and Unicron.theyll be killed before they can fought with each other.don't forget you can never dock in a gundam especially the powerful types like the new types, celestial beings, coordinators and other super beings.......


^___^

Im a Robot Fanatic I like all kinds of Robots, thats why i sometimes study there origin.TF is an example for me i like TF because optimus is so heroistic and he fights and dies for his comrade.


It's too sad if you only focus on one thing.But look at the manueveribility and there skills of a newtype pilot.how can a newtype be defeated that can predict your moves.


on friday i will explain the weapon differences senor hugo.And senor hugo try to play Ace 3 and you wil see the difference among bigger or smaller size big or small they have no difference if your a weak robot then you weak if your weak is a photon gun or what even it can never defeat, higher grade of weapon and barrier, and never think smaller robos or things that can be fast.it's like you fight a mosquito if they bite you and then you counter attack then if you have the accuracy you can kill it even if your small or big.ok?


^___^


sorry thats why there weapons are weak because even the marvel or whatever comics who made it didn't became famous and another thing if you all saw he gundam series tell me everything and post the clips on the thread.ok?

^___^

peaceout guys


Anime Rocks

American Comics Sucks

so if you say the smaller robot has more manueverbility then lets try this Teknoman Vs Tranzformerz.i bet that you can never hit this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teknoman

and you never seen him

Tranformers: the Movie. Megatron didn't use his fusion cannon. It was just a puny handgun.

CobrayGordon wrote:so if you say the smaller robot has more manueverbility then lets try this Teknoman Vs Tranzformerz.i bet that you can never hit this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teknoman

and you never seen him

I predict that you'll be gone before sundown.

ok but atleast i made an opinion.go if you want to ban me.

even though i didnt do anything wrong.

The Mad Asshatter wrote:

CobrayGordon wrote:so if you say the smaller robot has more manueverbility then lets try this Teknoman Vs Tranzformerz.i bet that you can never hit this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teknoman

and you never seen him

I predict that you'll be gone before sundown.

I'm surprised it didn't happen two sundowns ago.

I'm also surprised that "Sundowns" is accepted by Firefox's spellcheck, and that "Spellcheck" is not.

But, back on topic:

I've been trying to avoid TF Vs. Gundam threads for a long time now. But now I have to concede on certain points:

Yes, in certain scenarios, a TF could beat a Gundam, and, also in certain situations, a Gundam could beat a TF.

Yes, TFs have exceedingly larger armies than Gundam. However, I believe that most of this is an exaggeration. (Entire Galaxies of Transformers? Get real.) But, even so, putting armies from Cybertron (Which, if you combine the Metaverses, there is only a handful), against that of Earth and it's extending Colonies (Which have never really gone much father than Jupiter) and the collective Gundam Metaverse (a slightly larger number, considering Gundam gets a restart every few years) then take into account that TFs are naturally a warring society (And, as such, are mostly built for combat) then yes, TFs still have larger armies.

And there's one major difference that makes a Gundam vs. Transformer fight a difficult one to think through: Genre differences.

Gundam, except for certain series (G Gundam, possibly Gundam 00, though it's still too early to tell), is a "Real Robot" series. They break, they malfunction, and they run out of ammo. (Usually as a minor plot point) What's more, for the most part (Again, G Gundam and Gundam 00 come as an exception, though also Wing), Gundam Pilots are usually inexpirienced, and, as such, are usually damaged psychologically by the atrocities of war. (Loss of innocence is a great story concept)

Transformers, meanwhile, is a Super Robot series. They tend to have enough ammo to go around at all times, and can easily get away with ridiculous feats of agility and strength. (Compared to Gundam, where, if the series begins in space, there will inadvertently be at least one scene where a pilot has trouble adapting to Earth's gravity)

So, yeah, I'll have to concede all my previous arguments in every TF vs. Gundam thread, and give this one to TFs.

Shadowman wrote:

The Mad Asshatter wrote:

CobrayGordon wrote:so if you say the smaller robot has more manueverbility then lets try this Teknoman Vs Tranzformerz.i bet that you can never hit this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teknoman

and you never seen him

I predict that you'll be gone before sundown.

I'm surprised it didn't happen two sundowns ago.

I'm also surprised that "Sundowns" is accepted by Firefox's spellcheck, and that "Spellcheck" is not.

But, back on topic:

I've been trying to avoid TF Vs. Gundam threads for a long time now. But now I have to concede on certain points:

Yes, in certain scenarios, a TF could beat a Gundam, and, also in certain situations, a Gundam could beat a TF.

Yes, TFs have exceedingly larger armies than Gundam. However, I believe that most of this is an exaggeration. (Entire Galaxies of Transformers? Get real.) But, even so, putting armies from Cybertron (Which, if you combine the Metaverses, there is only a handful), against that of Earth and it's extending Colonies (Which have never really gone much father than Jupiter) and the collective Gundam Metaverse (a slightly larger number, considering Gundam gets a restart every few years) then take into account that TFs are naturally a warring society (And, as such, are mostly built for combat) then yes, TFs still have larger armies.

And there's one major difference that makes a Gundam vs. Transformer fight a difficult one to think through: Genre differences.

Gundam, except for certain series (G Gundam, possibly Gundam 00, though it's still too early to tell), is a "Real Robot" series. They break, they malfunction, and they run out of ammo. (Usually as a minor plot point) What's more, for the most part (Again, G Gundam and Gundam 00 come as an exception, though also Wing), Gundam Pilots are usually inexpirienced, and, as such, are usually damaged psychologically by the atrocities of war. (Loss of innocence is a great story concept)

Transformers, meanwhile, is a Super Robot series. They tend to have enough ammo to go around at all times, and can easily get away with ridiculous feats of agility and strength. (Compared to Gundam, where, if the series begins in space, there will inadvertently be at least one scene where a pilot has trouble adapting to Earth's gravity)

So, yeah, I'll have to concede all my previous arguments in every TF vs. Gundam thread, and give this one to TFs.

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself...

There another thing that realy gives more weight to the gundam universes. Even if the autobots and the decepticons could team up to beat up the humans. (very unlikely by the way...) Their collaboration would most probably be very unstable. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure the humans would unite more flawlessly when facing alien invasion. Human groups are not good or evil in Gundam series. They mearely have divergent political views.

I don't know how thing would work out on the merging of cannons on the TF side... There are so many Primes and so many Megatrons and Galvatrons...

There should definately be a rule on this forum about clarifications on the first post. This specific cannon vs this other specific cannon. It would help breaking the endless and senseless debates.

I say the Gundams win, but worry not! I am no random person (uh well... lets not get into this) who is giving biased answers out of favour of series.

First of all, I assume that ALL transformers in all Canons that ever existed fight ALL armed forces of ALL gundam universes that ever existed, whereas each pilot may only exist once... As we all know, there is a horde of Transformers, but taken account that the gundams have alll armies from each universe, meaning they do not interfere with eachother in terms of human population. Even within the same timeline, the armies often consists of peopole from different eras of time, so again, the human population does not limit eachother, thats a few times more sizeable than you'd usually assume the Gundam side armies.

Second, the heroes. Gundam protagonists often start out with difficulties, but some of them, especially the newtypes come out on top in their final phase. Lets have a look at some of the aces:

Heero (yes, you wingtards all love him)
-with the ZERO system, he knows might happen out of thousands of possible courses in the future.

Camille
-As Newtype, he has preemptive knowledge of what will happen seconds ahead by nature as well as absolute perception.
-His overcharge ability with the biosensor creates a strong I-Field. usually, the particles of an I-Field can only block beam attacks, but his overcharged I-Field is so dense that it also blocks physical attacks with beams not even getting a snowball in hell's chance of bypassing.
-His Newtype ability on overcharge is to shut down machines dead in place with the power of his mind, later he is able to remotely control machines, recombining Judau's ZZ Gundam.

Amuro:
-Another Newtype
-Amuro's Overcharge strengthens with the amount of emotions, people and willpower around him regardless of which side (though now you can muse if the willpower of a TF is included in this).
-His overcharge power is much like "The Force", though in a much larger scale. He reverted the direction of an asteriod base that would have exterminated mankind on earth with the psychoframe overcharge.
-Amuro could tell things ahead minutes before they happen while he was only 16.

Yurii Ajissah
-Yet another Newtype
-Yurii can override a machine or parts of it and gain total control of it.
-Yurii was a noob when she did that.

Third, environment. If you fight all gundam universes, this includes the universal century and the anno domini ones, meaning that all types of sensors except visuals are royally screwed due to GN and Minovsky particles. You can only rely on eyesight, heat traces works on combat distance though. This is the explanatin of more logic gundam universes on why people have to build humanoid robots for close combat. Any type of targetting system is nil for both sides, though this also counts as disadvantage for all non UC/AD people who freely use targetting systems. However, this condition also gives another major advantage to Newtypes, the stronger ones can sense anything around them even beyond visual range, their perception remains absolute. As the Cosmic Era also takes place, the N-Jammer cancellers prevent all fissions and nullify anything that would run on them.

Of course, there are some apocalyptic capable scenarios in TF, but they also exist in Gundam:

Turn A and Turn X are responsible for the deletion of technology, their moonlight butterfly is basically a cloud of nanomachines that has "devoured" technology in history and turned all machines to ashes.

Devil gundam can corrupt anything it comes in contact with with its DG Cells, the armies of Devil Gundam regenerate themselves and are "immortal" while Devil Gundam grows. It can annex planets if given the time. Transformers are "Super Robots" with beyond logic moments, but they barely have Sekiha Shuffle Doumei Ken type ultimate attacks to dispatch it as "easy" as seen in G Gundam, the Gundam series that totally disregards common sense (just look at Master Asia, he cuts through mechas with a cloth, catches bullets and shoves them back into the gun with enough velocity for them to come out on the other side and penetrate the mech holding it. And thats without his gundam.), even more than transformers meaning they get more ridiculous strength and agility boost moments as well as more plot armor and last but not least, more "0.000001% chance of winning but still winning" situations.

And last but not least, the Gundams have the Deus Ex Machina: Ideon.
Ideon is and remains the machine god, though you could argue Gurren Lagan stuff might get close. "How does ideon belong to gundam?" you ask? It appears in the sidestory "Mobile Suit vs Giant God", where it is said to have destroyed the EVERYTHING and recreated it. Okay, that was a vague description, but here are facts about ideon:

-Ideon can destroy the universe
-Ideons Missiles fire in all directions without leak
-Ideon's sword cuts planets in half
-Ideon's Gun deletes all planets, solar systems, galaxies, bacteria, clowns, etc. in the direction it fires in a 45 degree angled cone with infinite range from existance. This of course, includes any amount of transformers (and gundams) who happen to be within the effective area.


-All in all, TF are far superior if hey only have to face ONE Gundam canon/universe and age, they are clearly more powerful than anything but the strongest gundams, except maybe beast wars.

-1 on 1, a TF can defeat most pilots, but any transformer regardless of skill and power automatically loses to peak newtypes, especially those with overcharge abilities. you can be a fusion of Optimus, Megatron and Galvatron, you can't do **** if Camille simply shuts you down - or controls you (He did NOT get insane in the finale in the Z Gundam movie canon from doing it).

-If all universes are taken into account on both sides, the Gundam universe, even if it would be completely inferior in total power, IdeOWNZ all existance. Sure, Ideon at peak will probably destroy everything, but it remains itself so the Gundam universe wins with 1 suvivor.

-The dudes from Beast Wars can pointlessly transform into defenseless animals, but Nether Gundam can turn into a defensless AND immobile windmill. pWn in pointless stupidity.

I don't think that saying that crossover stories become a part of that the cannon. I don't think you want a horde of G.I. Joes fighting alongside the Transformers. Neither do you want the Avengers to join them. And that could escalade to force the whole legion of robots from Super Robot Taisen to join in the fight. And in the end it just stops making sense at all.

Anyway... I don't think that Gundam Universes need Ideon in this battle.

Gee each mobile suit has the size and strenght of a Gestalts with are considered out of scale compared to the bulk of the transformer army.

To those who brandish the number of untold TFs, let me say that there is also such a thing going on with newtypes.

me,say transfoma

Yeah picture this-Megatron blowing a hole in a few Gundams ,shootin off their heads. Transformers blow gundams out of the water

well, im not sure how this one could go, I think it depends if your talking about the entire transformers series and the Entire gundam series but, if it is specific It would be a little less one sided

I think that the TFs will win.
They're sentient robots, whereas the Gs are controlled by human pilots.
Human pilots will always have a lagtime.....

Random Person wrote:As the Cosmic Era also takes place, the N-Jammer cancellers prevent all fissions and nullify anything that would run on them.

Ah, not quite. The N-jammer prevents all nuclear activity. The N-Jammer canceler ALLOWS all nuclear activity.

MegatronTheGreat wrote:Yeah picture this-Megatron blowing a hole in a few Gundams ,shootin off their heads. Transformers blow gundams out of the water

I can, and it looks ridiculous. Transformers win, but not to the degree that Megatron can easily handle "a few" Gundams like that.

I say the transformers win because while their soldiers die, some of them come back after a while. The only legitemate threat to the transformers are the G Gundam mechs.
Sure Amuro can control independent rocket lasers with his mind, but Optimus was separating his conciousness into threes before it was cool.
Not to mention, with the Movie-formers, the Transformers now have the Allspark, with the ability to turn any machine into a sentient robot. Since Megatron was going to use it to create an army for himself, there's probably a way for them to control where the new robot's loyalties lie. That look pretty interesting, a Gundam starting to transform into a new Autobot/Decepticon...



At this point, I'd say the only thing Optimus and his posse have to look out for is the Shining Finger.