The Energon Pub

Satanatron wrote:Perfect now is gonna cost me fortune to get this exclusive

Maybe, but you'll have him. Send in that Iacon order form!

A great-looking repaint! And so what if it IS a repaint--so were the original seekers, minus the new wing designs on the last three...

Color me excited!

I feel like stabbing someone. You are all safe, though, I assure you.
Let me just say it's a good thing I reinstalled my Unreal Anthology last night because I really feel like hurting someone...

Cyber Bishop wrote:I am asking this nicely before any kinds of arguments erupt..
Please keep the unnecessary comments out of this thread.

If someone asks or says something, and you have a reply in mind that you know may start a conflict of some sort please keep that reply to yourself.

That goes for anyone that feels the need to bash Hasbro as well.

Keep it civil.

now who here would possibly do that?


ok, i'll be good.
TC and dirge both look great in my book, i'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the set. I agree that it is a shame that they didnt mass produce these. If it makes you feel any better i'm not going to be able to attend so i'm gonna miss out on the other exclusives which i'm speculating that i will really want...

Swerve wrote:

thehmphone wrote:why's everyone making such a big deal about him? its just a repaint from classics Starscream. I bet everyone here will have another orgasm when Skywarp comes out, who's just going to be another repaint from screamer. ooooohhhh, aaaaahhhh, wow, perfect!!! look at him!!! *rolls eyes*

Skywarp has already been released and yes, oragsms were had which is very akward since Target is a family oriented business as it was explained to me by the arresting officer.

He's also shelf warming all over the US along with Ramjet, which should tell people something about how well Thundercracker would have done at retail. Even if every fan on this board and all the rest bought one there would still be plenty left because parents aren't gonna by more then two of the same general figure regardless of how many times you change the colors or slightly tweak the mold. They didn't in the 80s and they don't now.

More on topic though this guy is pure plastic love. Very happy I order the set. I might have to sell a kidney to afford it, but I'll survive.

tentagil wrote:

Swerve wrote:

thehmphone wrote:why's everyone making such a big deal about him? its just a repaint from classics Starscream. I bet everyone here will have another orgasm when Skywarp comes out, who's just going to be another repaint from screamer. ooooohhhh, aaaaahhhh, wow, perfect!!! look at him!!! *rolls eyes*

Skywarp has already been released and yes, oragsms were had which is very akward since Target is a family oriented business as it was explained to me by the arresting officer.

He's also shelf warming all over the US along with Ramjet, which should tell people something about how well Thundercracker would have done at retail. Even if every fan on this board and all the rest bought one there would still be plenty left because parents aren't gonna by more then two of the same general figure regardless of how many times you change the colors or slightly tweak the mold. They didn't in the 80s and they don't now.

More on topic though this guy is pure plastic love. Very happy I order the set. I might have to sell a kidney to afford it, but I'll survive.

Just quoting someone who gets it.

He is SOOOO Beautiful. Damn Botcon having to be on the other side of the US T_T

This is honestly the only convention exclusive set that I will be pissed if I do not buy, and the only convention set that I will fork over that kind of dough for.

!!!DAM!!!

He looks good

now i hate this whole situation even more

Dam sexy goodness!! I am very glad I forked over the dough for the non-attendee package. For me at least, I can tell that I will be very happy with this set just based on the Dirge and now Thundercracker preview pic!

Swerve wrote:

thehmphone wrote:why's everyone making such a big deal about him? its just a repaint from classics Starscream. I bet everyone here will have another orgasm when Skywarp comes out, who's just going to be another repaint from screamer. ooooohhhh, aaaaahhhh, wow, perfect!!! look at him!!! *rolls eyes*

Skywarp has already been released and yes, oragsms were had which is very akward since Target is a family oriented business as it was explained to me by the arresting officer.

Just a word to the wise, before you make a comment like this research your facts about what has and has not been released..

Ultra Prime wrote:Dam sexy goodness!! I am very glad I forked over the dough for the non-attendee package. For me at least, I can tell that I will be very happy with this set just based on the Dirge and now Thundercracker preview pic!

I envy you for spending $279 for Deluxe Classic Figures <.< sadly, I don't think I can fork that much over after spending about the same amount on 3 Masterpieces.

Ultra Prime wrote:Dam sexy goodness!! I am very glad I forked over the dough for the non-attendee package. For me at least, I can tell that I will be very happy with this set just based on the Dirge and now Thundercracker preview pic!

As am I.. I can't wait till I get them in either!

tis just not fair...

sure it's fair. A lot of this hobby revolves around spending a lot of money. Supply and demand. We are finally getting figures we've been waiting over 20 years for! A nice articulated rendition of some of the classic characters. It sucks that these particular figures start out so expensive, but that's part of the game.

There are multiple ways that Hasbro could have gotten these guys into the mass market, with profit to spare and no complaints...but giving the Botcon crowd a huge lift made more financial sense. It's hype, it's publicity in the marketplace, and it drives numbers ahead of the movie...all a win for them.

Was that a joke? The movie is being made for a mass market of mostly non-fans who have never heard of botcon. Hence the very 'alien' look of the robots, the military action elements, the teen romance crap - all designed to attract the millions of non-fans needed to justify the huge cost of making the movie. Linking the botcon seeker issue to the movie makes no sense at all.

A triple pack of the remaining seekers for the price of a voyager a la the UM/skywarp set was the way to go. Parents may not like to buy the same toy over and over, but they sure do like a bargain.

voice of hoist wrote:A triple pack of the remaining seekers for the price of a voyager a la the UM/skywarp set was the way to go. Parents may not like to buy the same toy over and over, but they sure do like a bargain.

Yes they do, but a pack like that would have had to be a store exclusive to justify the lower price, and I'd make the guess that no body was buying. The days of Toy Compaines telling stores what product they are selling is basically gone. Now adays places like Walmart and Target pretty much determine what they want to sell, how much, and when. And to them toys are not a money maker.

I'll be picking up two of these sets when I go, can't wait

voice of hoist wrote:

There are multiple ways that Hasbro could have gotten these guys into the mass market, with profit to spare and no complaints...but giving the Botcon crowd a huge lift made more financial sense. It's hype, it's publicity in the marketplace, and it drives numbers ahead of the movie...all a win for them.

Was that a joke? The movie is being made for a mass market of mostly non-fans who have never heard of botcon. Hence the very 'alien' look of the robots, the military action elements, the teen romance crap - all designed to attract the millions of non-fans needed to justify the huge cost of making the movie. Linking the botcon seeker issue to the movie makes no sense at all.

A triple pack of the remaining seekers for the price of a voyager a la the UM/skywarp set was the way to go. Parents may not like to buy the same toy over and over, but they sure do like a bargain.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I'd like to be. My point was that instead of releasing the seekers at retail, it was decided long ago that they could give Botcon the exclusive Seekers, and it would provide a high-profile reason for even more people to consider going to Botcon, or buying the set. It taps into the nostalgia generated by all the movie buzz. Don't like the new movie look? Here's a set of G1 seekers you can't get in stores that has instant collectability and will hold it's value just like the toys you had as a kid.

It's a great marketing move. For all the oldschool fans that hate the movie designs, the $300 they'll save on not buying movie merch goes straight to Botcon. For the new guys brought in by the movie, they don't care about the old look anyway. No, the seeker release is not tied to the movie, but the decision was affected by it.

But I agree...a 3-pack release, a Hasbro Toy Shop Exclusive, a BBTS or HLJ direct online release produced to preorder specifications... could have gotten these guys in the hands of the fans without quite the hefty price tag.

Now adays places like Walmart and Target pretty much determine what they want to sell, how much, and when. And to them toys are not a money maker.

Yes, you're right. I remember seeing a scary documentary about the power of walmart. One part showed their 'negotiating centre' where they pit rival manufacturers against each other in tiny rooms, getting them to undercut each other on production costs of products walmart wanted. Still, I think that was largely for chinese manufacturers making bottom-end stuff. Surely a company as large as Hasbro would hold a better bargaining position.

And if they did make a case to retailers for the seekers and got knocked back, then how hard would it be for Hasbro to drop a line to fan sites like this to say they did their best for a mass release but giving them to botcon was the best they could do in the end. That would end the controversy.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I'd like to be. My point was that instead of releasing the seekers at retail, it was decided long ago that they could give Botcon the exclusive Seekers, and it would provide a high-profile reason for even more people to consider going to Botcon, or buying the set. It taps into the nostalgia generated by all the movie buzz. Don't like the new movie look? Here's a set of G1 seekers you can't get in stores that has instant collectability and will hold it's value just like the toys you had as a kid.

It's a great marketing move. For all the oldschool fans that hate the movie designs, the $300 they'll save on not buying movie merch goes straight to Botcon. For the new guys brought in by the movie, they don't care about the old look anyway. No, the seeker release is not tied to the movie, but the decision was affected by it.

Sure it's a great marketing move for the botcon people, no argument there. But I was under the impression that hasbro and botcon are completely separate (correct me if I'm wrong), so why would hasbro really give a stuff if botcon is a hit or not? We keep hearing from Hasbro's defenders that they only care about selling to kids not fans, so why would they care about botcon?

voice of hoist wrote:

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I'd like to be. My point was that instead of releasing the seekers at retail, it was decided long ago that they could give Botcon the exclusive Seekers, and it would provide a high-profile reason for even more people to consider going to Botcon, or buying the set. It taps into the nostalgia generated by all the movie buzz. Don't like the new movie look? Here's a set of G1 seekers you can't get in stores that has instant collectability and will hold it's value just like the toys you had as a kid.

It's a great marketing move. For all the oldschool fans that hate the movie designs, the $300 they'll save on not buying movie merch goes straight to Botcon. For the new guys brought in by the movie, they don't care about the old look anyway. No, the seeker release is not tied to the movie, but the decision was affected by it.

Sure it's a great marketing move for the botcon people, no argument there. But I was under the impression that hasbro and botcon are completely separate (correct me if I'm wrong), so why would hasbro really give a stuff if botcon is a hit or not? We keep hearing from Hasbro's defenders that they only care about selling to kids not fans, so why would they care about botcon?

I'm pretty sure they're separate (not for sure myself). Here's my theory as to why Hasbro cares, and you can take it with a grain of salt. But I do work in marketing, so I'm doing my best to make some educated guesses.

Hasbro likes Botcon, the fanbase, and sites like these, because the fandom essentially pays Hasbro's advertising costs. As a collector, I don't wait on Hasbro newsletters or catalogue inserts to tell me what's coming; I log on to sites like this, where fans discuss it for free. Hasbro also gets market analysis...what do the fans like, what don't they like...they get quality control reports. They don't have to pay focus groups to discuss the pros and cons of the TF brand name, as there are hundreds of fans at Botcon willing to tell any Hasbro rep exactly what is wrong with the line.

From another point of view, I've worked at one the biggest Magic retailers in the country. Magic is run by Wizards of the Coast, owned by Hasbro. Wotc's budget for Magic promotion is enormous. There are dozens of online writers producing constant content, a webcast crew, at least two North American convention crews, ads in every major comic book, national TV ads, thousands of dollars of free merchandise given away every week, and hundreds of thousands of dollars of prize money available at the highest level just so the game stays viable. What promotions does Hasbro run for TF's? They maybe split the cost on the Botcon molds? They...show up at Botcon and answer questions. They do pay for a cartoon when a cartoon is running, but other than the occassional commercial, they don't spend near the advertising money on Transformers they do on Magic.

When I look at how much money Hasbro spends on Magic, and how much they return on it, even when people say that Hasbro can't make money on the molds except by giving them to Botcon, I just don't agree. At best, I think the seeker saved Hasbro money, simply because they didn't have to mass produce them and possibly have them compete on the shelf with the upcoming movie toys.

Sorry about the long post, just been thinking about it.

I bow to your marketing experience Asderiphel, though I wonder about the value of botcon as market research for hasbro. If collectors are only a small slice of the tf market, then the uber-hardcore botcon attendees (and you'd have to be uber-hardcore, very cashed up or both) must be a very small market fragment indeed. In fact I'm guessing a lot of attendees are completists, and people who buy anything and everything tf-related are not necessarily great quality control guides. I imagine the recent online hasbro survey, which both hardcore and casual collectors had easy access to, would give the company much more useful information. And I bet the vast bulk of their market research would still be done in brightly painted rooms full of small boys and plastic robots. Hence I still question the value to hasbro of giving the seekers to botcon.

As for advertising, if my own experience as a kid is any guide, then the cartoons are everything. Kids get hooked on the characters via the cartoon, and the hook of the concept just never lets go!

Edited. Why bother.

GetterDragun wrote:

Swerve wrote:Why make thousands of dollars when we can make hundreds of dollars?

Incorrect statement. While we are collectors, we represent a small percentage of revenues for the TF line. If they were to produce a whole run of these...they would become shelf warmers. Think about it from the primary group that purchases TFs...parents. If you go to the store and see Thrust, Dirge, Ramjet, and Thundercracker on the shelf, you basically see the same 4 figures (in their mind) with just a different color. So they only buy one seeker. Thrusts are all ready clogging up the shelves at my stores right next to Cliffjumper...the repaints, so why make 3 more repaint characters? They won't sell enough to clear them out and stores will be pissed.

And yet, there will be four differently-colored versions of WW Thundercracker from the Titanium line available relatively soon, assuming Skywarp is actually coming. And these figures cost over $5 more a pop. These will sell, and the Classics version wouldn't?

MagnusPrimal wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Swerve wrote:Why make thousands of dollars when we can make hundreds of dollars?

Incorrect statement. While we are collectors, we represent a small percentage of revenues for the TF line. If they were to produce a whole run of these...they would become shelf warmers. Think about it from the primary group that purchases TFs...parents. If you go to the store and see Thrust, Dirge, Ramjet, and Thundercracker on the shelf, you basically see the same 4 figures (in their mind) with just a different color. So they only buy one seeker. Thrusts are all ready clogging up the shelves at my stores right next to Cliffjumper...the repaints, so why make 3 more repaint characters? They won't sell enough to clear them out and stores will be pissed.

And yet, there will be four differently-colored versions of WW Thundercracker from the Titanium line available relatively soon, assuming Skywarp is actually coming. And these figures cost over $5 more a pop. These will sell, and the Classics version wouldn't?

Simple answer, the repaints won't all come in the same box and thus will not compete with each others. No one is saying repaints aren't successful...look at a lot of the Armada figures. What I am saying is that the same mold available in multiple color choices (forget the wings and the head, they look the same in the box) at the same time is why they wouldn't sell.

EDIT: And of all the Titaniums I see Starscream seems to be the shelf warmer.

GetterDragun wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Swerve wrote:Why make thousands of dollars when we can make hundreds of dollars?

Incorrect statement. While we are collectors, we represent a small percentage of revenues for the TF line. If they were to produce a whole run of these...they would become shelf warmers. Think about it from the primary group that purchases TFs...parents. If you go to the store and see Thrust, Dirge, Ramjet, and Thundercracker on the shelf, you basically see the same 4 figures (in their mind) with just a different color. So they only buy one seeker. Thrusts are all ready clogging up the shelves at my stores right next to Cliffjumper...the repaints, so why make 3 more repaint characters? They won't sell enough to clear them out and stores will be pissed.

And yet, there will be four differently-colored versions of WW Thundercracker from the Titanium line available relatively soon, assuming Skywarp is actually coming. And these figures cost over $5 more a pop. These will sell, and the Classics version wouldn't?

Simple answer, the repaints won't all come in the same box and thus will not compete with each others. No one is saying repaints aren't successful...look at a lot of the Armada figures. What I am saying is that the same mold available in multiple color choices (forget the wings and the head, they look the same in the box) at the same time is why they wouldn't sell.

Ok. Sure.
But if they didn't choose the boxset option, they wouldn't all be on the shelf at the same time.
But this is going nowhere. What's the point? Despite all the bitching people do about Hasbro when they make other decisions that are unpopular, now they know all and can do no wrong. I can't wait till they leave out some paint apps from the next line that Takara and Hasbro both release, and some of their staunch financial defenders in this instance turn on them.