The Energon Pub

KAMJIIN wrote:

Mogwai Prime wrote:MODS
Anyways, I think there should be a mod for each faction that is pretty much just a normal forum mod like in HMWGD. You could even use Caelus,AS and whomever else to fill that roll. They would be totally seperate from the faction except for one thing, The actual elected faction official could request changes to the forums and other higher Mod funtions from the Mod. The Mod could then ok and deny it.

The leader would have limited mod power. the big dogs would still come when needed

Mogwai Prime wrote:
FACTION COMMANDERS
The commander I believe should be someone who has reached a certain post count and, if OS could implement it, a certain mission/arena/pit/whatever count to get nominated. Then each faction could have a voting poll to determine its commander rotated on a 3 month or so basis. This leader could then build his council and be a strategic leader. If he isn't doing his job and the faction decides not to have that player as commander a poll could be opened to Impeach the leader and a new Election held. It's democratic and anyone who qualifies can be nominated and the faction could decide.

DIPLOMATS
Could be elected the same as the commanders but without the game credentials but still with a certain post count. They are then the Ambassador between both the opposing factions along with the mods if it is chosen to be that way. He could be voted in and out just like a leader and could be rotated on a time schedule like a leader also.

The idea was to get everyone involved, regardless of post count or player skill.

So you could remove those restrictions and you could still use the vote in/vote out method with term restrictions .... but that could be a pain. I think, just as with most governments, that the leader should have some experience with the people and the game itself. The diplomats not as much but some. Or else you could just have a bunch of people that don't know how to create a bot trying to run the show theoretically.

Deadboy wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:Easy solution, OS and the mods build a test/application form. Those who want to be a leader or diplomat fill out the form. Then the OS and the mods review the forms, look at the players records, and choose the best canadite available.

So a faction would have to suffer should OS and the mods make a mistake in their selection? At least if those positions are elected, the faction has no one to point the finger at but themselves. Easiest just to separate them from Mod functions and make it not an issue.

So, you think the moderators would make a worse decission then letting people vote based on who has the coolest sig or most posts is better? I like Burn, and while I think he has a lot of good ideas, I don't think he'd be a good leader. And Burn has probably the most posts on the entire site.

Also the diplomat in my opinion should be definded as:

A diplomat should be the communication link between his leadership and the diplomat of the opposing faction. He should have certain limitations on his bargaining power limited only by his leadership. And if so used as a communications link with the Mods.

I also think that a leader with limited mod powers would be ok but I still think that while Caelus and AP and whoever mod the GD could be assigned to a specific faction for monitoring for abuse of power or anything like that.

Just throwing this out there based on stuff the furball said and tidbits OS has said.

Faction Commanders
Duties
• Decide what fortifications to buy and other ways to use the faction's energon reserves
• Develop a strategy, where to defend, what to target for conquering etc - however can NOT force people to abide by this strategy
• Ability to update/modify the faction bulletins

Terms of office
• Three month term - may stay on if re-elected
• Majority vote
• No pre-requisites (ie, post count, level of bots) other than being respected and have knowledge of the game - people voting will hopefully know the person and what they're capable of
• Can be removed by the Administrator (OS) - either by OS seeing a problem or faction members bringing the problem to his attention

Diplomats
(Not quite sure what OS really intends to do with these guys)
Duties
• Liaise with the other factions - arranging of tournaments?
• Ability to update/modify faction bulletins in the event of news that may affect the faction

Terms of Office
• Same as Faction Commanders

Couple of other points regarding all this ...

• "Faction Commanders" are for the entire faction and encompass the sub-factions as well.

HOWEVER ... if a sub-faction wants to elect their own leaders, they may do so but it would have no bearing in-game. At present I understand the "leaders" have Mod abilities relating to their own forums and I think that's enough.

Of course a sub-faction member and leader is allowed to stand up for Commander or Diplomat

• It might also be a good idea of there wasn't just one leader per faction, but maybe three. Three leaders, three diplomats, six people per faction having extra roles, even more incentive to get people involved.

Moderators and Administrators
• These all stay how it is, appointed by Ryan or OS and are responsible for the day to day operations of the forums. Controlling flame wars, addressing complaints, etc. One line of thinking that we need to get away from is that the factions need to be equally represented on the Mod list. This is NOT necessary as the Mods will be appointed based on their person not their faction.

Sub-Faction Moderators
• Responsible for their own sub-faction forums, have no abilities outside of them. In fact, outside of the sub-faction forums they should be regarded as ordinary members.

So that's just a few ideas and how i've interpreted a couple of things. If i'm wrong on stuff then OS is free to tell me i'm wrong (Which i'm sure he'll enjoy doing )

-edit-

Third highest actually AZ.
But he does make a valid point. Post count does NOT equal greatness. It's quality not quantity.

What about lurkers who don't post? Most of them know haw to play. Post count should not be an issue. Period.

Player skills...not so much.

Diplomacy and leadership skills...all that really matters.


By your reasoning, Mogwai, only Burn, High Command and Jesus Prime are fit to lead.

KAMJIIN wrote:What about lurkers who don't post? Most of them know haw to play. Post count should not be an issue. Period.

Player skills...not so much.

Diplomacy and leadership skills...all that really matters.


By your reasoning, Mogwai, only Burn, High Command and Jesus Prime are fit to lead.

I'm not saying they have to have twenty million posts but maybe 500-1000 or so something that says yeah i've been here i know what's going on in general at least.

Burn wrote::-?

Just throwing this out there based on stuff the furball said and tidbits OS has said.

Faction Commanders
Duties
• Decide what fortifications to buy and other ways to use the faction's energon reserves
• Develop a strategy, where to defend, what to target for conquering etc - however can NOT force people to abide by this strategy
• Ability to update/modify the faction bulletins

Terms of office
• Three month term - may stay on if re-elected
• Majority vote
• No pre-requisites (ie, post count, level of bots) other than being respected and have knowledge of the game - people voting will hopefully know the person and what they're capable of
• Can be removed by the Administrator (OS) - either by OS seeing a problem or faction members bringing the problem to his attention

Diplomats
(Not quite sure what OS really intends to do with these guys)
Duties
• Liaise with the other factions - arranging of tournaments?
• Ability to update/modify faction bulletins in the event of news that may affect the faction

Terms of Office
• Same as Faction Commanders

Couple of other points regarding all this ...

• "Faction Commanders" are for the entire faction and encompass the sub-factions as well.

HOWEVER ... if a sub-faction wants to elect their own leaders, they may do so but it would have no bearing in-game. At present I understand the "leaders" have Mod abilities relating to their own forums and I think that's enough.

Of course a sub-faction member and leader is allowed to stand up for Commander or Diplomat

• It might also be a good idea of there wasn't just one leader per faction, but maybe three. Three leaders, three diplomats, six people per faction having extra roles, even more incentive to get people involved.

Moderators and Administrators
• These all stay how it is, appointed by Ryan or OS and are responsible for the day to day operations of the forums. Controlling flame wars, addressing complaints, etc. One line of thinking that we need to get away from is that the factions need to be equally represented on the Mod list. This is NOT necessary as the Mods will be appointed based on their person not their faction.

Sub-Faction Moderators
• Responsible for their own sub-faction forums, have no abilities outside of them. In fact, outside of the sub-faction forums they should be regarded as ordinary members.

So that's just a few ideas and how i've interpreted a couple of things. If i'm wrong on stuff then OS is free to tell me i'm wrong (Which i'm sure he'll enjoy doing )

-edit-

Third highest actually AZ.
But he does make a valid point. Post count does NOT equal greatness. It's quality not quantity.

Burn, you bum , you beat me to the punch. I just got done with a write up of JUST the ambassador\diplomat position. I have a couple of things that was you missed but you did an excellent job in summarizing and trying to get everything organized.

Which was my problem. Who's to say one of the players who rarely posts on the boards isn't a skilled leader? Just because someone has 20 thousand posts doesn't mean they are leadership quality. And honestly, whatever faction it is, the leader needs to be more like a Prime then Megatron or Starscream. Why? Because if someone tries leading like Megatron, it'll start a lot of arguements and flame wars. Which is really why I don't want it to turn into a popularity contest for leader. Because then, if some people don't agree with the leader, but the leader is still popular among the majority, then there's a good chance of people starting arguments over it.

The diplomats should be left solely up to the factions. It's their reps that will suffer if the diplomats screw up relations with another faction.

I do, however, think the mods/admin should pick the nominees for faction leaders, and then let the factions vote. That will give us a leader that both the faction and the staff can be happy with.

But to be a leader you need to communicate.

How many people are going to look up to someone who has been a member for over 2 years and only has 500 posts?

Let me put it this way, if you want to be more than "just a player" in HMW, if you want to be a "Faction Commander" or "Diplomat" or "Mod" or "Admin" then you need to be dedicated, not just to the game, but to the forums as well.

Once V2 rolls out, the forums are going to be a major integral part of the game and your faction being successful.

Which is what Mogwai is trying to get at, to be in a position of authority you need to be actively involved, playing the game is being involved but you NEED to also be active in the forums.

On the other hand a person doesn't need to have a major post count, because as I said, quality over quantity. But then you can also have both.

And yes, it is going to be a popularity contest, frankly all government elections are like that. Not everyone is going to agree with a leader's strategies, but they will be able to have their say and if things degenerate into flame wars then that's where the big Mods step in.

I do get where you're coming from AZ but I believe all the issues that we've raised (with no doubt more to come) have given OS plenty to think about and he'll put plenty of safe guards in place to prevent things going arse up (or to at least soften the fallout).

Absolute Zero wrote:Which was my problem. Who's to say one of the players who rarely posts on the boards isn't a skilled leader? Just because someone has 20 thousand posts doesn't mean they are leadership quality. And honestly, whatever faction it is, the leader needs to be more like a Prime then Megatron or Starscream. Why? Because if someone tries leading like Megatron, it'll start a lot of arguements and flame wars. Which is really why I don't want it to turn into a popularity contest for leader. Because then, if some people don't agree with the leader, but the leader is still popular among the majority, then there's a good chance of people starting arguments over it.

Like I said earlier there doesn't have to be a post or anything requirement ... it was my opinion. There would still be a vote in/vote out in my expanation that would give the faction the ability to remove from power anyone that didn't fit what they wanted in that position.

I'm not saying you should be popular but should have some idea as to whats going on here .... and how would you know that from someone that never posts? Especially in a place made of from so many people that don't ever see each other in the real world. I understand that if you are getting elected that hopefully your faction knows something about you, but the requirement might stop alot of people that don't know what's going on from trying to nominate themselves and clogging up the procedings ... and possibly stave any flamewars from new people that think the "know it all". Not that everyone is like that but some will be I think. But again that's my personal opinion too.

Absolute Zero wrote:Which was my problem. Who's to say one of the players who rarely posts on the boards isn't a skilled leader? Just because someone has 20 thousand posts doesn't mean they are leadership quality. And honestly, whatever faction it is, the leader needs to be more like a Prime then Megatron or Starscream. Why? Because if someone tries leading like Megatron, it'll start a lot of arguements and flame wars. Which is really why I don't want it to turn into a popularity contest for leader. Because then, if some people don't agree with the leader, but the leader is still popular among the majority, then there's a good chance of people starting arguments over it.

The problem with a person with few posts being a leader is that if they aren't active in the forums, then they probably won't know enough about what is going on to be a leader. But ultimately, I think that the voters will serve as a balance for that whole problem, since a faction's members wouldn't elect someone that wasn't active. So I doubt we need to worry to much about that.

I am also worried by the thought of the leader having any mod powers at all. It just seems like a conflict of interest to me. Kind of like a government controlling all sources of media. I know it's not exactly the same but shares similar problems. I think anyone with mod powers needs to be as unbiased and neutral as possible. If we can't avoid giving them some mod powers for some reason, then we must do what we must do, but I think we should try to avoid it if possible.

Mogwai Prime wrote: I understand that if you are getting elected that hopefully your faction knows something about you, but the requirement might stop alot of people that don't know what's going on from trying to nominate themselves and clogging up the procedings

Good point.

I also think that there should be a post requirement for one particular reason also. The person who is going to lead a faction should be someone who actually participates in the forums whether it be negative or positive. It shows a little bit of interest in what is going on here. Why should someone that doen't give a lick about what happens in here be able to just show up and take control of a faction. I'd think everyone wants someone that actually participates in things to be in that position.

You don't make mods out of people that just show up.

again my personal opinion

KAMJIIN wrote:By your reasoning, Mogwai, only Burn, High Command and Jesus Prime are fit to lead.

I outrank all but 1 of them on that count

Mogwai Prime wrote:I also think that there should be a post requirement for one particular reason also. The person who is going to lead a faction should be someone who actually participates in the forums whether it be negative or positive. It shows a little bit of interest in what is going on here. Why should someone that doen't give a lick about what happens in here be able to just show up and take control of a faction. I'd think everyone wants someone that actually participates in things to be in that position.

You don't make mods out of people that just show up.

again my personal opinion

So where would you draw the post count line at? There have been many times where I don't post because someone else has beaten me to the punch and said what I wanted to add to the discussion. Should I then just start duplicating posts when I have that same opinion, adding nothing to the conversation other than boosting my post count, or should I rather not post and not take up more space with a duplicate post.

I also spent about a year not posting very much due to being intimidated with how daunting the boards are to new posters. I mean you try going into a new place and breaking into cliques that have been established for a while, I guarantee it would take a bit.

I personally have no ideas on how and even IF there should be some sort of minimal requirements for leadership. Maybe initially it should be determined by the active people right now, and then once we progress through V2 we will all get a better feel for who is active and more fit to take roles of leadership.

If I had access to the Maximal forum I'd be nominating myself

In my humble opinion a post count shouldn't be the primary stat by which we view whether someone is to be a worthy diplomat or not. I have few posts, but I know what's going on, because I read the forums and simply choose not to chime in when I feel I don't have anything to contribute. I'm newer to the game, having come in early last year, but I'm not wet behind the ears.

Instead, when it comes to being a diplomat, the post count should only form part of the criteria. The focus should be on the quality of those posts. One who shows a degree of mastery of the English Language, clear contributions to topics and the ability to steer clear of flamewars.

Frankly, you want your Ambassadors to be well spoken, capable of being active, and able to be... diplomatic.

Dedication would be another favorable trait to possess, not to mention "Love" for their faction. An Ambassador should be a Patriot above all else, putting the wellbeing and future of his faction above mere popularity.

I suppose I'm writing more on the ideal of an Ambassador then the reality of how it'll be in HMW, but I feel that the title of Ambassador carries more weight then mere extra participation and a fancy name. It is the responsibility of representing your faction to the others, the responsibility of making your faction look good. A poor Ambassador simply reflects badly on your entire faction, which is why I think things such as post count and mission/arena activity shouldnt be the only factors in choosing an ambassador.

It's an important decision that must be considered carefully, as we cannot simply elect an ambassador in simply to find out he was unfit for the job and boot him out the next week. Such a revolving door policy is sure to erode the position and make any such faction who adopts such practices the laughing stock of HMW.

Guess I went off on a bit of a tangent, heh. The Maximals will see my Ambassadorial Nomination Speech when I get access to the Maximal forums

As proven by this thread and history, leadership changes in people and role and what it takes to be a leader. We will see this "trend" in 2.0 because we always change and adapt. If we don't, things fall apart. The qualifications for leadership, would it being an ambassador or other form of leadership will change to some degree. Right now we need to figure out if this should be finalized here in GD or in the Faction forums. A "constitution" would be something interesting to see for the political side of HMW2 but may not be hammered out until months later after it launches. There is a high chance that these positions will define themselves over time.

Yoru Ookami wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:Which was my problem. Who's to say one of the players who rarely posts on the boards isn't a skilled leader? Just because someone has 20 thousand posts doesn't mean they are leadership quality. And honestly, whatever faction it is, the leader needs to be more like a Prime then Megatron or Starscream. Why? Because if someone tries leading like Megatron, it'll start a lot of arguements and flame wars. Which is really why I don't want it to turn into a popularity contest for leader. Because then, if some people don't agree with the leader, but the leader is still popular among the majority, then there's a good chance of people starting arguments over it.

The problem with a person with few posts being a leader is that if they aren't active in the forums, then they probably won't know enough about what is going on to be a leader. But ultimately, I think that the voters will serve as a balance for that whole problem, since a faction's members wouldn't elect someone that wasn't active. So I doubt we need to worry to much about that.

I am also worried by the thought of the leader having any mod powers at all. It just seems like a conflict of interest to me. Kind of like a government controlling all sources of media. I know it's not exactly the same but shares similar problems. I think anyone with mod powers needs to be as unbiased and neutral as possible. If we can't avoid giving them some mod powers for some reason, then we must do what we must do, but I think we should try to avoid it if possible.

I can post whatever I want in the forums, that doesn't effect how my team performs. Posting in the forums is a side note to the game. While it's important to build comradry, but it's not important to actual game play. Board politics don't control match results. Which is why post count is irrelivent. It'll help if they post before becoming a leader, but all that really matters is that they do when they are a leader. But even that may not really matter. How many people play the game and how many of them actually participate on the boards? It's a small slice. So while people want the lurkers to get active, they don't want to give them an incentive to. Can't have it both ways man.

Ideally, even if the leader elected never posted on the boards before, never even logged into the boards before, that shouldn't matter. Anyone who's willing to throw their hat in to be leader should have the ability to understand the game, which isn't that hard. It's a very simple game. Even with the new stuff added, it's still fundamentally simple. You join a mission or go in the arena, see your results. V2 will add the twist of competing for territory, but the fundamental basics of the game are still there. Board politics wont change that. The only real thing a leader needs to be able to do is identify target areas that need to be protected or taken, and identify the strengths and weaknesses of their army.

IMHO, the best leader would be someone who understands tactics, either plays a lot of chess or a lot of tactical RPGs, they should have a background in customer service, that way they can convince the people in their faction that their ideas will work, even if the faction has been struggling. Post count is the least important. Again, in my humble opinion.

Knight Hawk wrote:

Mogwai Prime wrote:I also think that there should be a post requirement for one particular reason also. The person who is going to lead a faction should be someone who actually participates in the forums whether it be negative or positive. It shows a little bit of interest in what is going on here. Why should someone that doen't give a lick about what happens in here be able to just show up and take control of a faction. I'd think everyone wants someone that actually participates in things to be in that position.

You don't make mods out of people that just show up.

again my personal opinion

So where would you draw the post count line at? There have been many times where I don't post because someone else has beaten me to the punch and said what I wanted to add to the discussion. Should I then just start duplicating posts when I have that same opinion, adding nothing to the conversation other than boosting my post count, or should I rather not post and not take up more space with a duplicate post.

I also spent about a year not posting very much due to being intimidated with how daunting the boards are to new posters. I mean you try going into a new place and breaking into cliques that have been established for a while, I guarantee it would take a bit.

I personally have no ideas on how and even IF there should be some sort of minimal requirements for leadership. Maybe initially it should be determined by the active people right now, and then once we progress through V2 we will all get a better feel for who is active and more fit to take roles of leadership.

Someone who is intimidated about just speaking in the forums should lead? Wouldn't that be even more intimidating? And then what if that person fails? You think he is still going to want to participate? Probably not .... I thought this is about getting people to participate ... It gives people a low key way to get in even if it's just by saying "Hey I've been reading the forums for a long time and would like to nominate so and so." I don't think anyone who gets intimidated by the boards would go for a leader anyways, but I think that person should have .... how to put it .... desire to be a part of the forums and be able to show it through his post count. Now whether that person is popular or not is not in question. I just think he should be able to show that he wants to be a part of the faction he is in. If someone new wants to get into that role I think he should have to show it to his faction by:

1) Posting even if it's talking about how to make altmodes.

2) Building the trust of his faction through his actions on the boards.

I just don't think some Joe Shmoe that hasn't done anything to show his dedication to the Forums, Game or anything like that, should be able to come in and take control. If you can't show your support for Seibertron as a whole, why should you get a leadership role in a faction that will be one fourthish of the people who do support this game?

I just don't think it should be given to someone that doesn't show his support and build some sort of representation of himself with his faction. If a new person wants a leadership role he should have to show that he can handle it.

It's just my opinion, though .... it doesn't have to be this way.

Absolute Zero wrote:I can post whatever I want in the forums, that doesn't effect how my team performs. Posting in the forums is a side note to the game. While it's important to build comradry, but it's not important to actual game play. Board politics don't control match results. Which is why post count is irrelivent. It'll help if they post before becoming a leader, but all that really matters is that they do when they are a leader. But even that may not really matter. How many people play the game and how many of them actually participate on the boards? It's a small slice. So while people want the lurkers to get active, they don't want to give them an incentive to. Can't have it both ways man.

Ideally, even if the leader elected never posted on the boards before, never even logged into the boards before, that shouldn't matter. Anyone who's willing to throw their hat in to be leader should have the ability to understand the game, which isn't that hard. It's a very simple game. Even with the new stuff added, it's still fundamentally simple. You join a mission or go in the arena, see your results. V2 will add the twist of competing for territory, but the fundamental basics of the game are still there. Board politics wont change that. The only real thing a leader needs to be able to do is identify target areas that need to be protected or taken, and identify the strengths and weaknesses of their army.

IMHO, the best leader would be someone who understands tactics, either plays a lot of chess or a lot of tactical RPGs, they should have a background in customer service, that way they can convince the people in their faction that their ideas will work, even if the faction has been struggling. Post count is the least important. Again, in my humble opinion.

I think Absolute Zero nailed it on the head with that one. Its not the man that makes the leader, its the leader that makes the man.

Okay I think we need to take a step or two back here.

The most important facet about a Leader and Diplomat is quality over quantity

However, how are you suppose to judge the quality of a person if they don't post?

How are you to know that a person is a tactical genius? Based on their bots?

If that's the case, Ghost Rider, Rice-Ci and Scrapper could have been considered tactical geniuses.

I agree, post count does NOT need to be a pre-requisite, however I think you'll find that a lot of people will judge a person not only by their team, but how active, and how they behave on the forums.

Up until this thread I couldn't see a point in integrating sub-faction forums onto this site, I was of the belief that things were fine and could have been left alone.

But if i'm going to vote for someone I want to know that person. I want to be able to interact with them, to get to know them, to bounce ideas for tactics and stuff off them as well as have a bit of fun. And with the sub-factions being incorporated into Seibertron.com i'll be able to do that.

And that's how i'm going to vote for someone, on how well I know them, but I won't get to know them if they don't post.

Take you for example Absolute Zero, you're not much of a poster but i've had a couple of little discussions with you, figure you're a pretty decent guy. Yet you say I wouldn't make a great leader. Am I a little offended by that? Yes. But you have your reasons for saying that. I've at least "put myself out there" for people to get to know me, to judge me, or whatever. Vice versa I probably wouldn't vote for you either. Not out of spite, but because I don't really know you well enough.

And I don't mean any of that in an offensive way, just throwing my line of thinking out there.

Knight Hawk wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:I can post whatever I want in the forums, that doesn't effect how my team performs. Posting in the forums is a side note to the game. While it's important to build comradry, but it's not important to actual game play. Board politics don't control match results. Which is why post count is irrelivent. It'll help if they post before becoming a leader, but all that really matters is that they do when they are a leader. But even that may not really matter. How many people play the game and how many of them actually participate on the boards? It's a small slice. So while people want the lurkers to get active, they don't want to give them an incentive to. Can't have it both ways man.

Ideally, even if the leader elected never posted on the boards before, never even logged into the boards before, that shouldn't matter. Anyone who's willing to throw their hat in to be leader should have the ability to understand the game, which isn't that hard. It's a very simple game. Even with the new stuff added, it's still fundamentally simple. You join a mission or go in the arena, see your results. V2 will add the twist of competing for territory, but the fundamental basics of the game are still there. Board politics wont change that. The only real thing a leader needs to be able to do is identify target areas that need to be protected or taken, and identify the strengths and weaknesses of their army.

IMHO, the best leader would be someone who understands tactics, either plays a lot of chess or a lot of tactical RPGs, they should have a background in customer service, that way they can convince the people in their faction that their ideas will work, even if the faction has been struggling. Post count is the least important. Again, in my humble opinion.

I think Absolute Zero nailed it on the head with that one. Its not the man that makes the leader, its the leader that makes the man.

And not the post count.

I nominate myself to be a dimplomat for whatever faction I join.

I'm compelling and handsome.

If you need any further information, feel free to ask your neighbor.

Counterpunch wrote:I nominate myself to be a dimplomat for whatever faction I join.

I'm compelling and handsome.

If you need any further information, feel free to ask your neighbor.

I find Punch more compelling....