IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:04 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:I doubt he would have got close to taking over anyway, it would have just been the start of another great war but maybe with different fractions as I doubt megs would have used the decepticon name.



If the Decepticon name doesn't exist in this alternate reality (?) he would use it. It's his symbol after all.

Look, this Auto-Megatron stuff has been vaguely touched on in the part-works I'm reading but, novelty aside, having the same thought process, morals, value judgments etc for a lifetime doesn't magically undo itself in a year or so. Especially when said lifetime is millions of years. From a psychological point of view, it's nonsense.
Sure, it gave Megatron an interesting new angle for character growth in IDW. Meanwhile a decade or so into the struggle in this new alternate universe, he'd be knee-deep in the blood of his enemies once more. That old thing about leopards and spots, unchanging...
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:40 pm

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It is touched upon better in the first few stories after dark cybertron. It's also not the first time in fiction that megs gives up on the decepticons as he does so in the tf prime cartoon and in the combiner wars machina series (where he says that he used the symbol of megatronus for the cons, referencing something that came from the supplementary media for revenge of the Fallen)

I think there is still chance for change, even after that long, especially when admits that so much of what he said was just to get a rise and it then worried him when he really believed it.

Looking back on think they wanted Megatron to become a bit more like Magneto, someone who can be both a good guy and a bad guy. That's why I think they did the retcons to make megs more sympathetic. That's why I want autobot megs to stay put in that alt universe until a writer that can make the most of him appears to use him. While this continuity was still looking to be ongoing I always said that bw megs was waiting in the wings to take over ;-)
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:38 pm

So let's talk Leaders.

New Continuity = New Leaders? One thing you can't fault IDWverse is shamelessly pushing Optimus and Megatron front and centre as often as humanly possible. While at the same time elevating and diminishing the standing of Rodimus and Galvatron, respectively in comparison.

So how about something completely different now? Straxus/Darkmount perhaps? IDWverse certainly didn't do anything important with him, likewise Emirate Xaaron for G1. Or someone completely new and untested. Breaking the stale leadership model as Animated did (with the Autobots, at least).

I find there seems a weird disconnect between being a fan of Transformers, as a whole series, and being a fan of the most popular 5-10 characters. Changing things up with the reboot could go a long way to address this problem. Who knows, in five years time, fans could be discussing the "epic storyline" of the bitter rivalry between Artfire and Full-Tilt?

All someone has to do is write it, for these things to become reality...
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:58 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I'm torn with leaders for them to go with established characters having command or having completely new characters trying to live up to their predecessors...though lets face it. It's going to be op and megs again...best we can hope for is they try to do new things with them like having op ready to retire so training a new commander (have op having killed a few commanders of the decepticons so he's mega old but knows the next time he comes put to fight it'll be his last) as for megs? Easy, split personality between megs and galvatron, have them fight for control.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:23 pm

It would be nice for a New Continuity to move away from retreading concepts from 1986. One of the best things IDW did was make Megatron & Galvatron separate characters, after all.

Push Prime to the back, a council of elders type thing (maybe alongside other versions of Prime). That way he can stay on the scene and give others a chance to shine. Same with Megatron, keep him there but don't forget there is a literal Army of Decepticons. Not just him. In a war that is supposed to be this big, the leader of your people wouldn't be there to give orders to each individual soldier. That is and always has been a stupid conceit in Transformers. Many Decepticons and Autobots should never have even met Prime and Megs in person. By that I also don't mean prop up Starscream/Shockwave and Prowl/Ironhide again either.

That's why I think Straxus or Xaaron could work well, from a G1 perspective. They have been absent from Leadership prominence long enough for modern interpretations to be New Characters.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:10 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I was just throwing ideas out there. Maybe we need two on-goings which have writers that communicate a lot with each other and editors so that one can focus on the leader and some "evergreen" characters and the other on troops on the front line (or a different front line if the leader is on the front line). The main selling point is that you would have decisions made by the leader in their ongoing be directly shown in the other. The balancing act would be to have them be readable on their own if people didn't want to read both. I would still love an anthology style series where they just team up new writers and new artists to tell stories that don't have to be set in any continuity.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:36 am

Motto: "What goes up must come down."
Weapon: Concussion Blaster Gun
As someone who has barely read any IDW, here's my thoughts on what I would like to happen:

First of all, it needs to be a hard reboot. Like, HARD hard reboot. No relation to the previous series whatsoever beyond names and concepts (as Transformers has always done to some degree or other). No trying to tie it to any other continuity or anything silly like that, just a completely fresh start.

Secondly, I'd like it to avoid being just a reinterpretation of G1 again. I'd prefer a mostly original take on the franchise, like Cybertron or Animated were. So new designs, new characters, new locations etc. It shouldn't be afraid of taking existing names and putting them on new characters/designs.

Thirdly, it really needs not to take itself too seriously. Animated and Beast Wars got the actual tone about right- the stakes were high but they weren't dreary and full of itself like Prime. Obviously being a comic it can get away with more mature subject matter, but it still should avoid unnecessary melodrama. Likewise it really, really needs to keep the hell away from sociopolitical pandering. Slag like that is what wrecked Marvel.

As far as actual story ideas, I'd say it should start on Cybertron. Give us time to get introduced to the characters and the world of the Transformers. Don't go right from the beginning- drop us in the middle of the war. The origins of the war can be explored later, if necessary. I think they should still go to Earth later, but rather than jumping straight from Cybertron to Earth, an intermediary "Journey through space" arc would be pretty cool, culminating in crashlanding on Earth.

As for the Earth arc, rather than just doing 80s or modern America, why not something different? How about having them land in the far off future of 2088 in the Japanese city of New Osaka? That would be pretty interesting, at least IMO. It would also allow for more freedom when designing the earth modes of the Transformers, due to the higher human technology base.

Once the "Earth war" arc is done, then a postwar arc would be good. The Decepticons are defeated and the Autobots are hailed as heroes on Earth, but all is not well. There's still the matter of the surviving Decepticons and what to do with them; not even the angriest Autobot is willing to murder them in cold oil. Perhaps for something really new, instead of the usual "Transformers go home" malarkey, the opposite happens- an Earth-Cybertron exchange deal is opened, and Cybertron becomes an official "ally" of the free world (complete with trade deals and extradition treaties). More Transformers on Earth, and even *gasp* humans on Cybertron!

Oh, and for the love of god, no crossovers. Please.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:29 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Black Hat wrote:As someone who has barely read any IDW, here's my thoughts on what I would like to happen:

First of all, it needs to be a hard reboot. Like, HARD hard reboot. No relation to the previous series whatsoever beyond names and concepts (as Transformers has always done to some degree or other). No trying to tie it to any other continuity or anything silly like that, just a completely fresh start.

Secondly, I'd like it to avoid being just a reinterpretation of G1 again. I'd prefer a mostly original take on the franchise, like Cybertron or Animated were. So new designs, new characters, new locations etc. It shouldn't be afraid of taking existing names and putting them on new characters/designs.

Thirdly, it really needs not to take itself too seriously. Animated and Beast Wars got the actual tone about right- the stakes were high but they weren't dreary and full of itself like Prime. Obviously being a comic it can get away with more mature subject matter, but it still should avoid unnecessary melodrama. Likewise it really, really needs to keep the hell away from sociopolitical pandering. Slag like that is what wrecked Marvel.

As far as actual story ideas, I'd say it should start on Cybertron. Give us time to get introduced to the characters and the world of the Transformers. Don't go right from the beginning- drop us in the middle of the war. The origins of the war can be explored later, if necessary. I think they should still go to Earth later, but rather than jumping straight from Cybertron to Earth, an intermediary "Journey through space" arc would be pretty cool, culminating in crashlanding on Earth.

As for the Earth arc, rather than just doing 80s or modern America, why not something different? How about having them land in the far off future of 2088 in the Japanese city of New Osaka? That would be pretty interesting, at least IMO. It would also allow for more freedom when designing the earth modes of the Transformers, due to the higher human technology base.

Once the "Earth war" arc is done, then a postwar arc would be good. The Decepticons are defeated and the Autobots are hailed as heroes on Earth, but all is not well. There's still the matter of the surviving Decepticons and what to do with them; not even the angriest Autobot is willing to murder them in cold oil. Perhaps for something really new, instead of the usual "Transformers go home" malarkey, the opposite happens- an Earth-Cybertron exchange deal is opened, and Cybertron becomes an official "ally" of the free world (complete with trade deals and extradition treaties). More Transformers on Earth, and even *gasp* humans on Cybertron!

Oh, and for the love of god, no crossovers. Please.

Some good ideas there black hat, only thing I would say is that we still need more females like idw have, as it's perfect chance to create more new things...and us having more fembots that much if a big deal? Though starting the series off by saying "this is cybertron, there's guy bots and girl bots...that's that" and then move on
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:37 pm

So you want to introduce Gender into the Cybertronians straight away? I mean I'm one of those that thinks Tranformers doesn't need Gender (via Fembots), to be humanised in that way, but that isn't likely to be undone.

Also, Black Hat:
The Decepticons are defeated and the Autobots are hailed as heroes on Earth


I thought you didn't want a reiteration of G1? If people want a hard reboot, to see Transformers as they haven't before, surely we must be prepared to leave behind all the pre-conceived ideas.

Also early IDWverse had the right idea. Transformers are a space faring race, take away Earth's importance.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:08 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Fans will want arcee so yeah, that genie isn't going back into that bottle anytime soon. That's all on Hasbro and sunbow with season 2 introducing elita 1 and her friends. I mean thinking about it, they introduced relationships between TFs in that season as well :lol:
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:12 pm

ZeroWolf wrote:Fans will want arcee so yeah, that genie isn't going back into that bottle anytime soon. That's all on Hasbro and sunbow with season 2 introducing elita 1 and her friends. I mean thinking about it, they introduced relationships between TFs in that season as well :lol:



Well as long as people understand, she won't be Lunatic Sword Fighter Arcee in a new continuity.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:24 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
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Question is, what can they do with her that's new?
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:27 pm

Exactly. IDW gave us "Crazy badass". G1 largely gave us uncomfortable relationship with Daniel Witwicky, fruitless love triangle with Rodimus and Springer and... "secretary". She is kind of a blank slate without the IDWverse interpretation.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:54 pm

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Personally I'm of the opinion that fembots should be there from the beginning and not be treated as anything particularly unusual. I had an idea for an origin story that the Transformers were originally sexless (and otherwise very inhuman) creatures, but took inspiration from organic civilizations they encountered in Cybertron's golden age and adapted themselves accordingly- including the concept of gender. Obviously, Cybertronian ancient history would be explored later in the series, rather than being given in one massive infodump at the beginning.

But in short, fembots are cool, might as well add them.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:03 pm

Surely then, there should be some point to Fembots in the new continuity? It's always been a bit weird for there to be one lone group of Transformers that has gender, which is purely cosmetic and superfluous. Otherwise it's just pandering. I'm not saying create "Man Bots" either, but give the Fembots function, purpose.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:07 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Surely then, there should be some point to Fembots in the new continuity? It's always been a bit weird for there to be one lone group of Transformers that has gender, which is purely cosmetic and superfluous. Otherwise it's just pandering. I'm not saying create "Man Bots" either, but give the Fembots function, purpose.

...you realize all the other characters are already male, right? Female Cybertronians did not introduce the idea of gender to Transformers because male is a gender.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:59 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Daniel Adkins wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Surely then, there should be some point to Fembots in the new continuity? It's always been a bit weird for there to be one lone group of Transformers that has gender, which is purely cosmetic and superfluous. Otherwise it's just pandering. I'm not saying create "Man Bots" either, but give the Fembots function, purpose.

...you realize all the other characters are already male, right? Female Cybertronians did not introduce the idea of gender to Transformers because male is a gender.

This is very true, as they were already using male pronouns and ever since g1 people have just assumed they were guys. Now I'm wondering if it was only furman who tried to write them as gender less..As every cartoon has had fembots but at the same time used my approach of "there's fembots, deal with it"
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:44 pm

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Black Hat wrote: The Decepticons are defeated and the Autobots are hailed as heroes on Earth, but all is not well.


*barf*

Let's try something different and have the decepticons win. Not all stories have happy endings. I find the whole autobots have to win thing beaten to death. Although the bots in theory won the war, they still had a "bad guy" lead. Exploring the shades of grey is one thing that I enjoyed with IDW.

The idea that the transformers are not exactly welcome on earth, to me is a very realistic concept. What IDW did with the comics currently was step out of what was laid down before and come up with their own ideas and concepts. trying new things, different things. Decepticons and Autobots Post war.

How about something... pre-war. Lets learn about the Transformers in a time of peace. Starscream was a scientist cartoon), we know virtually nothing about his prewar profession. We know he came to earth long before humans were even an inkling. Why was he here? What was he studying? How did he get home. (admittedly he is my bias, but the point is, what are the histories of the characters before.)

As I heard this is a soft reboot not a hard one, so my understanding of that is, the current personalities will remain largely unchanged. (I won't hold my breath)

Whatever IDW comes up with, I am sure it'll be pretty good.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:42 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
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Given that all the creative staff were being changed I assumed this was a hard reboot?
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Sunstar » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:26 am

Motto: "All hail Lord Starscream"
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
ZeroWolf wrote:Given that all the creative staff were being changed I assumed this was a hard reboot?


They can still hold to the characterisations,but you could be right. Still lets see what we get.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:37 am

Daniel Adkins wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Surely then, there should be some point to Fembots in the new continuity? It's always been a bit weird for there to be one lone group of Transformers that has gender, which is purely cosmetic and superfluous. Otherwise it's just pandering. I'm not saying create "Man Bots" either, but give the Fembots function, purpose.

...you realize all the other characters are already male, right? Female Cybertronians did not introduce the idea of gender to Transformers because male is a gender.


That's one interpretation. Other than pronouns, lest we quibble over language, Fembots have a visual gender distinction that no one else does. That doesn't make the rest "male" merely by default.
They are Giant Alien Robots, their race physically, visually only has gender through the Fembots.
I could be wrong of course, I may have missed a distinctly male Transformer in the G1 years.

Gender is linked to reproduction within organic life. Which is why the Fembots have never made sense, given Transformers do not procreate in that way.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:08 am

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Yeah, no.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:16 am

Image

I've always been of the mind, as ZeroWolf indicated Furman's intention, that Transformers are "Other" and should be treated as such. They are sentient artificial lifeforms, beyond gender classification. The 'alien' aspect is the thing most writers shy away from and it's the most interesting part. Hence why virtually every show and comic eventually veers away from planet based adventures into the stars.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:55 am

If Transformers were truly genderless, than they wouldn’t use gender identifying pronouns. And even had that been the intent out-of-universe (which it wasn’t since Bob Budiansky originally wrote Ratchet as a woman before Hasbro told him to change it), they were still coded as male through the use of aforementioned pronouns, other instances of gendered language, and male actors providing voices in animation. Furman may have pushed the idea of them being genderless, but he didn’t do anything to actually address the male coding, instead opting to show Female Transformers as something that was “other,” which in and of itself feeds into some institutionalized misogynistic ideas about male being the “default” and female being an “aberration.”

Also, gender and sex are two different things. You’re thinking of the biological function of male-female sexes, while gender is a construct of society.
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Re: IDW Transformers - The Reboot? Discussion Thread

Postby Black Hat » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:08 am

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Daniel Adkins wrote:If Transformers were truly genderless, than they wouldn’t use gender identifying pronouns. And even had that been the intent out-of-universe (which it wasn’t since Bob Budiansky originally wrote Ratchet as a woman before Hasbro told him to change it), they were still coded as male through the use of aforementioned pronouns, other instances of gendered language, and male actors providing voices in animation. Furman may have pushed the idea of them being genderless, but he didn’t do anything to actually address the male coding, instead opting to show Female Transformers as something that was “other,” which in and of itself feeds into some institutionalized misogynistic ideas about male being the “default” and female being an “aberration.”

I think the intention was that Transformers only appeared "male" because humans projected that image onto them, and were in fact non-sexual beings- the use of male pronouns could be put down to convenience (and, you know, not trying to come up with unnecessarily confusing lingo in a kids' comic or calling Prime an "it").

As far as Transformer gender goes, I did have another idea for the presence of a gender divide in Cybertronian society; Transformer reproduction is "Pseudo-sexual". So whilst their bodies are built artificially (albeit through processes far more complex than anything we could comprehend) the creation of a spark requires the union of two existing sparks- one male, one female- which produces a new spark in a slightly more metaphysical counterpart to budding from Marvel.

Alternatively, if you didn't want to allude to robot babymaking, one could have the idea that the Transformers were once organic like you and me, but evolved/transcended to technobiological bodies over millions of years, and gender is a holdover from the days of sexual reproduction, in much the same way we still have a coccyx from when we had tails.

Also, gender and sex are two different things. You’re thinking of the biological function of male-female sexes, while gender is a construct of society.

How about we don't even go there?
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