IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Knight » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:10 pm

I don't even think I comic shop stocked this one. lol. I didn't see it when I was there earlier.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:14 pm

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The staff seems to have forgotten what will sell COMICS though, and that's having a closer link to how they original characters LOOKED. If they nailed that, and then avoided Mary-Sue characters, this series wouldn't be DOA...
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:20 pm

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primalxconvoy wrote:The staff seems to have forgotten what will sell COMICS though, and that's having a closer link to how they original characters LOOKED. If they nailed that, and then avoided Mary-Sue characters, this series wouldn't be DOA...


I've had enough of this trite, pointless, repeated, monotone comment from you.
Say something actually critically constructive, or stay away from commenting.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:24 pm

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Daniel Adkins wrote:Honestly, I feel bad for the creative team of this book. All the potentially interesting things this series could do will all be overshadowed by a terrible editorial decision. I guarantee that if it weren't for that last page, nobody would have a problem with this series.
It was not great but kind of "ok, not bad let's see where this goes" through page 19, yes. Then page 20 happened, then David Mariotte took out three pages to gloat about how clever this was and yeah, that changed my mind pretty quick.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:52 pm

So the guys over at TheVisionaries.net have posted their thoughts (http://www.thevisionaries.net/articles/crew%27s-thoughts-on-transformers-vs-visionaries-issue-1/13), and they're pretty positive. It seems people who aren't necessarily huge Transformers readers are more likely to enjoy the book. I know one of the people at my local comic shop who had no TF experience whatsoever and picked the book up because Mags worked on it, and she absolutely loved it.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby BombshellDaBug » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:00 pm

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That review is making me glad I didn't pick this title up today. Such a shame considering how much I enjoyed the Rom/Transformers crossover. That being said, I feel like a lot of the pieces in this IDW Hasbro universe aren't terribly well done, mostly due to the execution of the series they've published as opposed to the actual ideas behind the series. Don't mind me, I'm just rambling.

Anyways, never had an interest in Visionaries and now I probably never will.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:13 pm

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ANGRY WHITE GUY RANTINGS!

Okay, first and foremost, I haven't followed the news leading up to the release of #1 today. I stopped following the news following it's announcement.

"Oh good grief, here we go again, ANOTHER **** crossover because of this shared universe crap."

So because of that, I was a little confused about an entire city having popped up in the depths of Cybertron. I'm aware of HOW they introduced the Visionaries with Krieger/Merklynn, I just seemed to have missed the point where the city, and the rest of the magic wielding hippies appeared.

But whatever, what's done is done, and there's now a city of aliens in the depths of Cybertron.

My history with Visionaries is basically non-existent, I remember seeing advertisements for the toys (probably at the back of the Transformers Marvel UK comics I bought back in the day) and had a rough idea of what they were about.

So I went into this issue with a mix of not expecting much, and not really caring.

And that's effectively what I got. A society that used to be divided between good and evil now having to work together to ensure the survival of their race.

Wait ... who are we Cybertronians or Prysmosians? ugh ... story works for either I guess.

We get FIVE Cybertronians. Yes, five. Yay! Huge cast. Ironhide, who doesn't trust the magical bags of flesh, Kup, who is suddenly perky and diplomatic (what the ****?) Wheeljack the curious, (Prime) Breakdown who is along for the ride, and Fat Tankorr who has the position of being front door guard but really spends his time practising being Buddha.

Ironhide, is fantastic. He's his typical gruff and grumpy self ... I think I relate to him way too well.

Kup however ... seriously, what the ****? This isn't the Kup I'm used to. Okay maybe if you compare him to his 1986 movie incarnation, where he was cheerful and friendly, but this isn't the 1986 movie, this is IDW. I want the cigar-smoking-to-maintain-his-sanity Kup that hasn't just seen everything, he's seen everything AND spent time in a dead universe.

Not that it matters, 'cause Kup is dead. He even gets a 3 page memorial

Wheeljack, Breakdown and Buddha Tankorr are just background fillers to help propel the story forward.

On the flip side, you have a bunch of magical bags of flesh. And these are of course split between the good guys (the ones who want to work with the Cybertronians) and the other lot (you can't really call them bad) who want the planet for themselves to save their race (is that really such a bad thing?) I don't know these characters, but they're you're typical characters.

Then there's the typical artefact/device/thing, better known to us readers as the Talisman. It's the thing that will help restore Prysmos. (And it's going to do that by burrowing it's way to Vector Sigma!)

Overall, it's a book. It's not great, it's not fantastic, it's not terrible, it just is. I'm sure there's a point of it, like maybe it ties into something bigger, I don't know. If comic books were flavoured, and you were to lick this book, it would taste like Vanilla.

Pick it up, don't pick it up, I don't think you'll miss much either way. Or save yourself the emotional trauma of deciding by reading Green Lanterns. Jessica Cruz is awesome.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Daniel Adkins » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:41 pm

Burn wrote:Kup however ... seriously, what the ****? This isn't the Kup I'm used to. Okay maybe if you compare him to his 1986 movie incarnation, where he was cheerful and friendly, but this isn't the 1986 movie, this is IDW. I want the cigar-smoking-to-maintain-his-sanity Kup that hasn't just seen everything, he's seen everything AND spent time in a dead universe.

You didn't read Revolutionaries, did you? Kup has been cheerful and friendly for quite some time. Heck, that even goes back to his (ex)RID appearances.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Scrounge1984 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:52 pm

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From what the interview says I still can tell they are really trying with this idea, the problem again is the mandates being handed to them. Also the visionaries story idea is far from bad it could work if given more freedom, hopefully they can work with what they've been given and if it doesn't work I wouldn't blame the writers. And thanks ScottyP for correcting my comment in the Visionaries review.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:00 pm

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Daniel Adkins wrote:
Burn wrote:Kup however ... seriously, what the ****? This isn't the Kup I'm used to. Okay maybe if you compare him to his 1986 movie incarnation, where he was cheerful and friendly, but this isn't the 1986 movie, this is IDW. I want the cigar-smoking-to-maintain-his-sanity Kup that hasn't just seen everything, he's seen everything AND spent time in a dead universe.

You didn't read Revolutionaries, did you? Kup has been cheerful and friendly for quite some time. Heck, that even goes back to his (ex)RID appearances.

I read it. I just want the cigar-smoking-slightly-traumatised Kup.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby ricemazter » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:18 pm

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Burn wrote:
Kup however ... seriously, what the ****? This isn't the Kup I'm used to. Okay maybe if you compare him to his 1986 movie incarnation, where he was cheerful and friendly, but this isn't the 1986 movie, this is IDW. I want the cigar-smoking-to-maintain-his-sanity Kup that hasn't just seen everything, he's seen everything AND spent time in a dead universe.


He hasn't been grumpy Kup for at least the last year. He went through a sort of transition during the Action Man Revolution tie in when he was captured by Miles Mayhem, being generally salty and skeptical of humanity after being captured and experimented on twice. In that story, he was rescued by Ian Noble (action man), and they became best buddies, and Kup was happier after that. They had their own adventures in Revolutionaries and the First Strike tie ins.

It was this really cute pairing where Action Man was excited about having a robot best friend, and Kup had someone to pal around with and tell all his old war stories to. It was nice to see the old guy finally catch a break after being tormented for most of IDW's run.

Really, along with Rom vs Transformers, Kup/Action Man was one of the few things that stuck with me through the shared universe, but I get that the transition to happy Kup would be jarring for people who weren't keeping up with the other titles.

It does make me super salty that he's dead. For people who have read the issue, is Action Man even mentioned once?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 pm

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Why are people assuming I haven't read the other titles? I have. The whole transition from messed up to happy-go-lucky felt like it happened overnight, there was no slow transition. I mean come on, he was old, cranky, and had spent a long time in the dead universe and the only thing that kept him from going nuts was a cigar.

But along comes a flesh bag and he suddenly gets over all that trauma? gah.

ricemazter wrote:For people who have read the issue, is Action Man even mentioned once?

Not from memory. It appeared to be a permanent reassignment to Cybertron for him.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Ebonyleopard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 pm

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For the first time, this book has finally made me feel fed up with other lesser Hasbro properties being shoved into Transformers and having Transformers suffer and come off the worst for it. This issue doesn’t even explain where the hell the Visionaries came from. They’re just suddenly, poof, there. Or am I missing some key reading material that sets this up?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Ebonyleopard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:41 pm

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primalxconvoy wrote:Image

I agree that many of the humans are a bit "Mary Sue" in these comics. Most TFs would win, easily

Also, I still don't like the new Leoric, for the save reasons I didn't like the new Matt Tracker. I'm all up for character development, new characters or characters changing jobs/positions of authority, but extensive changes with no reasons why, just for the sake of it seem to be insensitive to the source material and fans of the original show, aesthetic, etc.

Wake me up when Leoric looks like this: - http://visionaries.wikia.com/wiki/Leoric


Just say you don’t like white male characters being changed to other ethnicities or genders and be done with it instead of tap dancing around the obvious crux of you’re argument. Frankly, I’d respect it more and would actually e willing to agree if these type of statements were simply “let’s jeep the original character designs as is but update their looks”instead of the nudge nudge hint hint code talk of getting to it. It’s annoying and comes off even more condescending and insulting.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Ebonyleopard » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:44 pm

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Transcendent30 wrote:More race and gender baiting SJW nonsense from IDW, quickly going the way of Marvel. I'm sorry but Leoric is a white guy (along with Matt Trakker from MASK). These characters look NOTHING like Visionaries at all, but rather an obvious SJW political vehicle, for the white/man shaming of much loved franchises of the past. There is nothing wrong with being white. If they want ethnic minority characters, make NEW characters and NEW stories. The Visionaries are white male characters in fantasy knight armor. Deal with it. SJWs are destroying everything I hold dear at the moment. I'm boycotting all IDW publications from now on, until they decide to get rid of the identity politics. This is not Visionaries and it's not Transformers. It's sickening, forced "diversity" and no longer fun.



I get so tired of the “SJW”shield for what people really obviously want to say but don’t have the full fours peg to completely go there. Just spit out what you really want to say and drop th SJW bs.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Burn » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:22 am

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Ebonyleopard wrote:Just say you don’t like white male characters being changed to other ethnicities or genders and be done with it instead of tap dancing around the obvious crux of you’re argument.

I don't like ANY characters having their race and/or genders swapped around.

I find it incredibly lazy, rather than spending the time developing and building new characters, they simply take existing characters and turn them on their heads.

Marvel has, and continues to receive a lot of criticism for this, but I've never understood why because those race/gender swapped characters often exist alongside the original characters.

What IDW have done by swapping Leoric and Matt Tracker is pandering to a vocal minority who want more diversity, and that vocal minority are often labelled SJW's (and having been on the receiving end of a vindictive SJW simply because I supported a fish and chip shop, I have no time for such people). Generalising? Yeah, but they've honestly done themselves no favour.

Is the swap a big deal though? No. My gripe with Matt Tracker was the fact he was young and inexperienced, forget the colour of his skin! I can't comment on Leoric as, having already said so, I don't have much history with Visionaries, but to me, if they stay true to the character (which again, I feel they didn't do with Tracker) then it really shouldn't be an issue.

The book had bigger problems anyway.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:48 am

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Daniel Adkins wrote:So the guys over at TheVisionaries.net have posted their thoughts (http://www.thevisionaries.net/articles/crew%27s-thoughts-on-transformers-vs-visionaries-issue-1/13), and they're pretty positive. It seems people who aren't necessarily huge Transformers readers are more likely to enjoy the book. I know one of the people at my local comic shop who had no TF experience whatsoever and picked the book up because Mags worked on it, and she absolutely loved it.


That is reeeeaaally interesting. :-?

(And it kinda hopefully shuts up the True Visionaries Fan, given that other True Visionaries Fans disagree.)


Burn wrote:Why are people assuming I haven't read the other titles? I have. The whole transition from messed up to happy-go-lucky felt like it happened overnight, there was no slow transition. I mean come on, he was old, cranky, and had spent a long time in the dead universe and the only thing that kept him from going nuts was a cigar.

But along comes a flesh bag and he suddenly gets over all that trauma? gah.

ricemazter wrote:For people who have read the issue, is Action Man even mentioned once?

Not from memory. It appeared to be a permanent reassignment to Cybertron for him.


Nup, no Action Man. I agree with the too chipper Kup - it worked in Revolutionaries, but it only worked when Ian was around. Examples like these two panels:

Image

..to me, looked like a little too much. In Revolutionaries, in a way, I saw it as Kup trading one addiction (cygar) for another (Ian) to keep himself up (intentionally or not). Which made this particular issue jarring in that sense, as there is nothing that supports it, unless we're to take it that he's looking for another fleshbag to partner with.

He didn't get that, of course.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:05 am

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Ebonyleopard wrote:For the first time, this book has finally made me feel fed up with other lesser Hasbro properties being shoved into Transformers and having Transformers suffer and come off the worst for it. This issue doesn’t even explain where the hell the Visionaries came from. They’re just suddenly, poof, there. Or am I missing some key reading material that sets this up?


The only proper, actual direct set-up is in the Transformers tie-in to First Strike (both issues) and the end of First Strike. I didn't think it was particularly well done, either, so yes, they are effectively just suddenly there.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Coptur » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:57 am

Ebonyleopard wrote:
Transcendent30 wrote:More race and gender baiting SJW nonsense from IDW, quickly going the way of Marvel. I'm sorry but Leoric is a white guy (along with Matt Trakker from MASK). These characters look NOTHING like Visionaries at all, but rather an obvious SJW political vehicle, for the white/man shaming of much loved franchises of the past. There is nothing wrong with being white. If they want ethnic minority characters, make NEW characters and NEW stories. The Visionaries are white male characters in fantasy knight armor. Deal with it. SJWs are destroying everything I hold dear at the moment. I'm boycotting all IDW publications from now on, until they decide to get rid of the identity politics. This is not Visionaries and it's not Transformers. It's sickening, forced "diversity" and no longer fun.



I get so tired of the “SJW”shield for what people really obviously want to say but don’t have the full fours peg to completely go there. Just spit out what you really want to say and drop th SJW bs.


So bascially you're calling Transcendent30 & primalxconvoy racists??(speaking of four pegs) for not liking Hasbro/IDW changing established character races for no reason other that SJW / Political nonsense.

I didn't like Baxter Stockman being white in the 1989 Turtles cartoon but I guess that makes me racists too.. :HEADHURTS: :BANG_HEAD:
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:07 am

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No one is destroying anything. The old works still exist.

There is no pandering to any vocal minority (by this I assume you mean people who whine the loudest, and they come from many sides; look at how Scarlett's Strike Force went down), only business practices. I'd like to see comics publishers actually believe in the diversity they claim to be promoting, by hiring more marginalised creators instead of just working on their casts - IDW is sort of doing that, but editorial is still a mess and we're seeing results of good ideals with shoddy practice, and creators getting the short stick of reader response in a lot of cases.


Now, all of you, get back on the topic of discussing the issue at hand. Thank you.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:56 am

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Va'al wrote:
primalxconvoy wrote:The staff seems to have forgotten what will sell COMICS though, and that's having a closer link to how they original characters LOOKED. If they nailed that, and then avoided Mary-Sue characters, this series wouldn't be DOA...


I've had enough of this trite, pointless, repeated, monotone comment from you.
Say something actually critically constructive, or stay away from commenting.


Have I broken any rules regarding that comment? If not then I think I have every right to post it. I disagree that it's trite.

The creator stated that they wanted to concentrate avoiding irrelevant values (toy sales) and concentrate on the story. However, I believe that previous low sales of the MASK comic were partly due to clumsy handling of the original source material (designs, etc). Thus, as I believe that Visionaries suffers from this, too, I believe the creators should have been mindful of what would create more sales of the comic.

I'm sorry if you don't like my viewpoint, but we are both entitled to our own, right?
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:00 am

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Burn wrote:
Ebonyleopard wrote:Just say you don’t like white male characters being changed to other ethnicities or genders and be done with it instead of tap dancing around the obvious crux of you’re argument.

I don't like ANY characters having their race and/or genders swapped around.

I find it incredibly lazy, rather than spending the time developing and building new characters, they simply take existing characters and turn them on their heads.

Marvel has, and continues to receive a lot of criticism for this, but I've never understood why because those race/gender swapped characters often exist alongside the original characters.

What IDW have done by swapping Leoric and Matt Tracker is pandering to a vocal minority who want more diversity, and that vocal minority are often labelled SJW's (and having been on the receiving end of a vindictive SJW simply because I supported a fish and chip shop, I have no time for such people). Generalising? Yeah, but they've honestly done themselves no favour.

Is the swap a big deal though? No. My gripe with Matt Tracker was the fact he was young and inexperienced, forget the colour of his skin! I can't comment on Leoric as, having already said so, I don't have much history with Visionaries, but to me, if they stay true to the character (which again, I feel they didn't do with Tracker) then it really shouldn't be an issue.

The book had bigger problems anyway.


Bloody hell, Burn,I agreed with some of the stuff you just wrote there.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:03 am

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Va'al wrote:No one is destroying anything. The old works still exist.

There is no pandering to any vocal minority (by this I assume you mean people who whine the loudest, and they come from many sides; look at how Scarlett's Strike Force went down), only business practices. I'd like to see comics publishers actually believe in the diversity they claim to be promoting, by hiring more marginalised creators instead of just working on their casts - IDW is sort of doing that, but editorial is still a mess and we're seeing results of good ideals with shoddy practice, and creators getting the short stick of reader response in a lot of cases.


Now, all of you, get back on the topic of discussing the issue at hand. Thank you.


I agree with this, too. I'm all up for more diverse and "non-WASP" content, but IDW hasn't done a good job of it, is all.
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby Coptur » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:20 am

Va'al wrote:No one is destroying anything. The old works still exist.

There is no pandering to any vocal minority (by this I assume you mean people who whine the loudest, and they come from many sides; look at how Scarlett's Strike Force went down), only business practices. I'd like to see comics publishers actually believe in the diversity they claim to be promoting, by hiring more marginalised creators instead of just working on their casts - IDW is sort of doing that, but editorial is still a mess and we're seeing results of good ideals with shoddy practice, and creators getting the short stick of reader response in a lot of cases.


Now, all of you, get back on the topic of discussing the issue at hand. Thank you.


Marvel did hire "marginalised" creators and the books weren't very good which resulted into bad sales. Ultimately this is why they've had to cancel so many titles in the last month.

Obviously there is a lot more to this which we won't get into and you're right we should chat Transformers ;)^
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Re: IDW Transformers vs Visionaries Discussion Thread

Postby primalxconvoy » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:36 am

Motto: "私はルールに違反している"
Or Visionaries? ;)
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #211 - On The Prowl
Twincast / Podcast #211:
"On The Prowl"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Sunday, November 4th, 2018

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