The Energon Pub

Yes, I realize I am years late to this party, but I had hopes for HasTak making an official MP Devastator, either as a single piece figure or 1 made up of 6 smaller scale Constructicons, or my dream, 6 MP scale Constructicons for a supersized MP Devastator. I'm beginning to believe that this will not happen, so I am heavily leaning towards either Hercules from TFC or Giant from MakeToys, both of which have grabbed my attention. Hoewever, either of these sets of figures is a major financial investment, and I want to make sure I get it right. So, aside from watching several reviews, I'd like to get opinions from you guys who have either owned at least 1 of these, or have had them in your possession physically. What are the pros and cons for each figure (as a whole, not as the 6 separate components, unless there are specific problems for each figure) in terms or detail, combination, and poseability? I understand these may be lengthy replies, and I thank you in advance for your time.

Quick short answer:

Giant Type-61
Pros
Nice G1-ish combine mode
Interesting new designs for individual bots
Nice matte finish

Cons
Combiner Parts not integrated into design may be a turnoff for some
Individual bots may be too neo for fans looking for accurate G1 look

Hercules
Pros
It's huge
G1 looking individual bots
Integrated combiner parts

Cons
You'll need to get the addon set for a more accurate G1 combined form
Individual bot designs maybe too 'blocky' for some.

Verdict: It's a tie. Usually discussion boils down to personal preference(size/design choice) as you can't go wrong with one or the other.

I'd say it comes down to size and cost. I own Herc, but if Giant was the only one available, I would have been happy too. I like the concept of the larger construction vehicles of Herc, but Giant's are decent too.

Of all the debates I've seen here on different 3P takes on the same character, this was the only one I recall being a tie. (Most characters have a majority following, like MMCs Predaking over TFC, and especially UT, or FP's Brainwave over TW's.) So, I'm completely with guarayakha on that.

I own Herc, and completely happy with his size, simplicity of transformations, and playability. One thing that did kind of bug me is that I have not found the right kind of supple thread to use to make the crane hoist work...

I own both. (yellow giant for my G2 shelf) In combiner mode, if your shooting for G1 vintage toy accuracy, go for giant. If youre more into G1 cartoon accuracy, go with hercules. Keep in mind that you will also need to buy the rage add on set plus crazy devy G1 head and purple barrel to achieve thar true G1 cartoon look. Or if you like the IDW look, you can leave hercules as is, without the accessories. Both hercules and giant have awesome reprolabel sets to help them look less bland and fit in with your hasbro bots. I know you said you didnt care about the individual bots, but in my opinion TFCs were better simply because they actually look like the bots on the cartoon. The giant bots are kind of weird looking and also a little complex to transform. (some of them) And maketoys mixmaster has some scary tabs that look like they could break with excessive transforming. On the flip side if you choose hercules, open up long hauls hips and lube the ratchet gears with vasalene before you pose them or they will strip. Either way both of them are nice display pieces and are fine representations of something Hasbro will not give us. They will probably do a combiner made from different bumblebees first.

guarayakha wrote:
Giant Type-61

Cons
Combiner Parts not integrated into design may be a turnoff for some

Hercules

Pros
Integrated combiner parts

I know that this is all opinion, but any time I see someone say, "Giant has parts not integrated, and Hercules doesn't have that problem!" I just have to ask... and is that a good thing? The parts in question have to be the fists. And when I look at Hercules's fists, I can't help but boggle at how bad they look. Yes, they integrate into the individual bots... but as a giant fist hanging off of them! Really? This is the better alternative?

Where as with Giant, you have fists (and forearms) that are separate pieces... yes. But those pieces transform. They can become portable generators that are towed by two of the individual members in vehicle mode. They can become jackhammers for two of the other members to use in robot mode. Or, as another option, in robot mode Mix Master can use them as like a jetpack. With these options, they seem decently integrated to me, certainly a heck of a lot better then a fist hanging off the back of a robot.

(And, of course, claims of Hercules having integrated parts go to pot if you also want to use the optional Rage of Hercules add-on kit.)

Anyway, back to the original poster's question, I can't really speak from personal experience with regards to Hercules, but I do have reviews of Giant (and his individual members) on my review website:

Scavanger & Bonecrusher
Long Haul & Hook
Scrapper & Mixmaster
Devastator & Reprolabels





Am I saying, "Herc sucks! Get Giant! Giant forever! Woo!" No, not quite. I'm saying that I reviewed the options available myself, decided that I liked Giant better for my own needs, and thus bought him. And I've not regretted it. So I hope you take everyone's opinions, including mine as presented in my reviews, and make a decision that is right for you. Whichever one you get, I'm sure it'll be a great focal point in your collection!

I own TFC Hercules, and really like him for the following reasons:

SCALE. The individual bots are voyager-ish sized, and the combined form is relatively large. This works better with Classics-sized bots, in my view.

AESTHETICS. These guys, at least in bot mode, scream G1 cartoon to me, and are extremely cohesive as a team. They all have similar proportions, and their blockiness keeps business in check. I also love the tread forearms. They help streamline his silhouette without deviating too much from the source material.

PLAYABILITY. These guys are not complicated, and a heck of a lot of fun to transform and fiddle with. Of the combiners I have, Hercules is the only one I can see converting back and forth with any sort of frequency.


I don't have Giant, so I can't speak to him. But I can say Hercules is a lot of fun and fits right into my shelf.

About Eight months ago I was contemplating which version to get also.

None of these are 1985 homage toys scale. As the 1985 Constructicons were legends-Commander scale.

I eventually decided to buy a MISB Gift set Green giant

The Green giant team members I felt were in Classics deluxe toy scale. due to most of 1984-1985 cars-bots and 1984-1985 seekers-bots being commander scale in 1984-1985 that got updated deluxe toys in classics.

The Hercules team members I feel are in MP toy scale. Due to the Masterpiece cars-bots & hercules team members being Voyager scaled toys.

I decided to get Green Giant because of the following reasons.
Green giant has the more green shade 1985 homage color compared to Hercules. Green giants vechicles,robots and gestalt mode look more 1985 than Hercules does. Felt the Hercules team members and gestalt mode were vastly oversized. Combiners put in gift set boxes are always better than individual team member releases.

Price was a factor, As Green giant MISB Cost $150+ less a MISB Hercules did. Sure I could have got a used one off ebay and both toys would have ran the same used price. but since one of hercules team members had serious QC problems in the hips. The Risk of buying someone elses broken toy was far too high. Even if the guy got the replacements parts, their is no knowing if he installed them at all or worse installed them incorrectly.

It's worth a serious mention. Green giant had next to none QC complaints on-line. So the chances of getting a good one was higher than getting a bad one.

I own Herc. A friend of mine in town owns Giant. We got together a long time ago and compared them. We each had different opinions, but overall if you want a way too long, in depth look, you can check out what we did.

Blog form comparison, by me: http://scotty--p.blogspot.com/2012/10/unite.html Pardon the formatting, the template I switched to didn't agree with it much.

Video form comparison, by my friend Tabtiurf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzK9jr_ ... D5V11dbbUQ

Whichever of those speaks to you more, well, I think that'll tell you your answer.

There's many threads around about this, and I read most of them when I had to decide at the end of last year. I chose Hercules for several reasons, some of which are purely subjective, some of which no longer apply, but in the end, I'm still very happy with my purchase.

The main factors for me were:
Playability: TFC's offerings seemed to have more 'play' value, with things like moving wheels, moving shovels, larger working crane etc.
Cost: At the time, the difference between Giant and Hercules was negligible. that's no longer the case, as I've seen one place still selling Giant for $330. I got Herc for $399. At the time Giant was $450 as extra stock was mysteriously found at several retailers.
Transformability: I really enjoy clever transformations, so making the forearms out of treads instead of extra kibble really appealed to me.
Videos: There ws a really awesome Rage Of Hercules stop motion video that inspired me. Since then, there's been an arguably better one made of Giant fighting Battle Tanker. Watch them both anyway.

Also, I knew I couldn't get the RoH set then, but I was extremely happy to see a second run come out which I bought from Chimungmung for $40 the other week. Definitely adds some more possibilities to it.

All this said, I've been seriously considering buying a Giant set in addition to what I currently have for the last few weeks. I've talked myself out of it, but if not for trying to save money for other 3P offerings, I'd happily buy him as well.

I think the biggest factor to think about is personal taste. Do you want a faithful upgrade to a toy you loved as a kid? Giant. Do you want something that keeps the theme, but reimagines it in a clever way to look like Devastator in the All Hail Megatron comics? Hercules. I never had the toy until Encore came out, so I didn't have the emotional attachment.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

guarayakha wrote:
Giant Type-61

Cons
Combiner Parts not integrated into design may be a turnoff for some

Hercules

Pros
Integrated combiner parts

I know that this is all opinion, but any time I see someone say, "Giant has parts not integrated, and Hercules doesn't have that problem!" I just have to ask... and is that a good thing? The parts in question have to be the fists. And when I look at Hercules's fists, I can't help but boggle at how bad they look. Yes, they integrate into the individual bots... but as a giant fist hanging off of them! Really? This is the better alternative?

It's actually why I ended up with Giant, actually But on most TF forums I've been to these are the most common thing said about Giant vs Herc, so I'm just echoing those comments while knowing next to nothing about how Herc works

Wow, thanks guys, this is very helpful. I should have stated this in the opening post, but I am planning on displaying the figure as a combiner on a G1 shelf, along with either the new line of MPs (Prowl, Sideswipe, etc.) or some of the CHUGs, whichever looks better in terms of scale.

Actually, my exact goal is to re-create the fight scene from Marvel Comics #10, "The Next Best Thing to Being There" which is a fight between some Autobots (Ironhide, Huffer, Blue Streak, few others) and Devastator commanded by Soundwave. Even if I can't do this, I'd still like to have a decent-sized G1 Devastator representative on my shelf.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Wow, thanks guys, this is very helpful. I should have stated this in the opening post, but I am planning on displaying the figure as a combiner on a G1 shelf, along with either the new line of MPs (Prowl, Sideswipe, etc.) or some of the CHUGs, whichever looks better in terms of scale.

Actually, my exact goal is to re-create the fight scene from Marvel Comics #10, "The Next Best Thing to Being There" which is a fight between some Autobots (Ironhide, Huffer, Blue Streak, few others) and Devastator commanded by Soundwave. Even if I can't do this, I'd still like to have a decent-sized G1 Devastator representative on my shelf.

Hmm... If you're looking for a more G1 look, unless you add on the Rage of Hercules kit (which I suppose makes it more of a tie) then Giant would be the way to go...

Giant looks great with Classics (I hate the term "CHUG," myself, and tend to just still use Classics), in my opinion. But if you might be looking to pose him with Masterpiece figures, the bit of extra height you get with Hercules might be better...

Really, while I am obviously more in the Giant camp, both figures have their pros and cons. I suppose once you read everyone's advice, and do any other research you may wish to do, you'll hopefully be able to form an opinion and pick one. I look forward to seeing which way you go!

Incidentally, something else you may wish to consider: Are you planning on eventually picking up any other combiners? Do you want them to scale well with one another? And if so, do you have any preferences amongst other combiners out there? For example, I think Giant looks really good with Fansproject's Menasor and Bruticus:




And all three of them will also likely fit together well with other upcoming combiners such as Maketoys' Computron or Defensor. Meanwhile, Hercules will likely look better with other TFC combiners, such as their Superion or their upcoming Defensor.

This isn't as much as a consideration if you only want a Devestator. Or if you don't care about scale between them. But if you do want others, and you do care how they look together, it is an important thing to keep in mind!

By the way, any chance you might be able to provide an image of the comic scene you'd like to recreate?

I don't think either Giant or Herc would scale well with MPs at all. Giant would probably be worse off of the two, but neither really works. You could wait to see if Warbotron would make a Devestator.

Still don't understand why no slavish g1 style head was made for Maketoys Giant by a Crazy Devy or Dr. Wu or some other upgrade kit maker???

Why did Herc get one, but not Giant? I'd buy it in a heart beat.

I agree that is it basically a tie. It comes down to personal preference.

Although I only own Giant ... it is great, but is definitely an adult collectors item, you cant be too rough with it. Some say Herc is more durable for constant play? IDK. I can't really say?

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I don't think either Giant or Herc would scale well with MPs at all. Giant would probably be worse off of the two, but neither relly works.

I agree with this. I suggested that Herc may pair better with Masterpiece figures in my last post, but that was rather a case of if one must use either Giant or Herc with Masterpiece figures, Herc's height gives him an advantage. But it is still not a perfect situation.

warzon3 wrote:Still don't understand why no slavish g1 style head was made for Maketoys Giant by a Crazy Devy or Dr. Wu or some other upgrade kit maker???

Why did Herc get one, but not Giant? I'd buy it in a heart beat.

Dr. Wu did make a head for Giant. I had light up eyes. I didn't think it looked that great, however. Also, I could never get an answer on if it still folded up to be Hook's foot (or a poorly disguised chunk on Hook's vehicle mode), and having it usable in all three modes would have been important to me. So I never bothered picking it up.

Personally, though, I don't think the head(s) that come with Giant look bad, so I'm satisfied with what you get out of the box.

Don't be too obsessed with scale. Both Giant and Herc are way-undersized in alt mode, because a front end loader etc would be WAY bigger than a standard car, and you can't not think about alt modes because his combined mode is basically made of alt modes all stuck together. So buy the one you like the looks of the most. Both are really good figures and I think most people who are Devastator fans would be happy with either.

TheGrognard wrote:Don't be too obsessed with scale. Both Giant and Herc are way-undersized in alt mode, because a front end loader etc would be WAY bigger than a standard car, and you can't not think about alt modes because his combined mode is basically made of alt modes all stuck together.

Ha, the Constructicons are hardly the worst offender in this regard. I've seen amusing images of the Combaticons illustrating this point. Let me see if I can find anything with a Google image search. Ah, here we go:





As far as it goes for me, I suppose scale isn't the most important issue, especially in vehicle mode. I don't expect my Seekers to dwarf my Autobot cars, for example. And in combiners, I expect the limb-bots to be roughly the same side in robot mode as their teammates, even if their vehicle modes logically shouldn't be.

I have some standards, mind you. I wouldn't put a Legends Optimus with Deluxe Class Autobots. Overall, I suppose there's no definable logic that fits all of my figures. I suppose it is more a combination of what is available (for the longest time I had Legends Trailbreaker with my Autobot cars, until I could happily replace him when the Deluxe came out), what looks good if there are multiple options, and just generally what my gut says would look good in my collection.

Obsessing with scale is one thing, but you DO want combiners to look impressive all together, right? I remember when I found out just how small Mixmaster really was. As a part of Devestator I expected him to be huge, but once I saw him in real life I knew he was a shrimp and that there was no way Devestator could face Voltron on equal footing.

Plus, you may not necessarily want one combiner much larger than another or much smaller than another. Which has become a bit of a problem.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I remember when I found out just how small Mixmaster really was. As a part of Devestator I expected him to be huge, but once I saw him in real life I knew he was a shrimp and that there was no way Devestator could face Voltron on equal footing.

Is this a childhood memory of G1 Devastator, and the 80's Matchbox Voltron toys? Or are you talking about more modern toys?

If G1, I will agree that the G1 Devastator was small. I had him as a kid, and I also recently saw him in an awesome toy museum in Salem, MA. (Anyone going anywhere near Salem should check it out! Much vintage toy goodness!) He is a small toy, made up of six smaller toys. Meanwhile, I do seem to remember the Voltron I had as a kid being quite hefty.

Meanwhile, I actually think Giant's version of Mixmaster is quite a decent size! Heck, in robot mode, he's amongst the taller members of his group. I've never had the TFC version in hand, but since Herc as a whole is larger, I'd expect the individual members are a bit larger, as well. I do have a slightly more modern Voltron, and while I've never stood him up next to Giant (or my other Transformers inspired gestalts) I suspect they would actually scale well together. Hmm... I should try to shoot a photo or two of that later!

Yotsuyasan wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I remember when I found out just how small Mixmaster really was. As a part of Devestator I expected him to be huge, but once I saw him in real life I knew he was a shrimp and that there was no way Devestator could face Voltron on equal footing.

Is this a childhood memory of G1 Devastator, and the 80's Matchbox Voltron toys? Or are you talking about more modern toys?

If G1, I will agree that the G1 Devastator was small. I had him as a kid, and I also recently saw him in an awesome toy museum in Salem, MA. (Anyone going anywhere near Salem should check it out! Much vintage toy goodness!) He is a small toy, made up of six smaller toys. Meanwhile, I do seem to remember the Voltron I had as a kid being quite hefty.

Meanwhile, I actually think Giant's version of Mixmaster is quite a decent size! Heck, in robot mode, he's amongst the taller members of his group. I've never had the TFC version in hand, but since Herc as a whole is larger, I'd expect the individual members are a bit larger, as well. I do have a slightly more modern Voltron, and while I've never stood him up next to Giant (or my other Transformers inspired gestalts) I suspect they would actually scale well together. Hmm... I should try to shoot a photo or two of that later!

Childhood memory. And I had a Panosh Place Voltron who is a little bigger than MP-01 if I recall correctly, so he's far larger than Matchbox's set (although inferior in every single other way ... not that I knew that at the time). Compared to him G1 Devestator is just puny.

You know, I never tried to pair off MP Voltron with either Herc or Giant. I think Herc is larger and Giant shorter, but I dunno.

Giant's individual guys are actually pretty good. Mixy has a big head, though.

G2 Megatron towered over pretty much every combiner, heh.

It's actually pretty funny, the Giant bots really aren't that much smaller than the Herc bots... it's that they are more compact as vehicles, that leads Herc to be bigger.

I am considering buying the other combiners from 3rd party companies, but Devastator is the 1st I want to get, and I would like the others to kinda scale with him, but it doesn't have to be perfect. I am not too picky with scale, if I can manage figures in scale, I'll get them, but I won't sacrifice individual presentation or quality for scale of a group. I am not sure which combiners I would like to get, as long as there is a representation of each character. Thus my dilemma here. Which is a better representation of G1 Devastator?

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Who's the yellow one on the right?

Bumblebee.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Bumblebee.

Ah, that'd have been my guess. It was just hard to be sure from behind with the somewhat simplistic art style.