The Energon Pub

prowl123 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

prowl123 wrote:Darth Vader was the bad guy of Star Wars. Darth Sidious was above him in only position. Darth Sidious didnt do any fighting past Episode 3 in the timeline of the franchise. Darth Vader did all of the work for him. In TDKR and IM3, the real villain actually gets into combat, and is more sinister and formidable that the 'fake bad guy.'

Uh...the "real villain" so to speak of Dark Knight Rises, Talia? Didn't do any fighting. She got into a car chase and stabbed Batman, and did all the planning, but ultimately, Bane, your so-called "fake villain" did all the real fighting.

Dude, did you even see TDKR?

Yes I did, but I for some reason cant spit out what I'm trying to say.

what I should have said from the beginning is that the so called 'fake villain' is believed to be legit throughout most of the movie, but the true villain is discovered later.

Right, because snapping Batman's spine doesn't make him legit...

Shadowman wrote:

prowl123 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

prowl123 wrote:Darth Vader was the bad guy of Star Wars. Darth Sidious was above him in only position. Darth Sidious didnt do any fighting past Episode 3 in the timeline of the franchise. Darth Vader did all of the work for him. In TDKR and IM3, the real villain actually gets into combat, and is more sinister and formidable that the 'fake bad guy.'

Uh...the "real villain" so to speak of Dark Knight Rises, Talia? Didn't do any fighting. She got into a car chase and stabbed Batman, and did all the planning, but ultimately, Bane, your so-called "fake villain" did all the real fighting.

Dude, did you even see TDKR?

Yes I did, but I for some reason cant spit out what I'm trying to say.

what I should have said from the beginning is that the so called 'fake villain' is believed to be legit throughout most of the movie, but the true villain is discovered later.

Right, because snapping Batman's spine doesn't make him legit...

Bah bane's dry wit alone was enough to make him a real villain

Edit*
The site glitched me or something, I edited my post and it posted it when I hit "Preview"
I only figured that out after I posted the post below this one. Wierd...

prowl123 wrote:what I should have said from the beginning is that the so called 'fake villain' is believed to be legit throughout most of the movie, but the true villain is discovered later.

The scene were he blew up Gotham made him a real villain. The scene were he broke batman's spine made him a real villain. His speeches, his actions, and his beliefs made him a real villain.
Just because someone else was pulling the strings, doesn't make Bane any less "legit"
That being said, I see were your coming from, but think about it.
The Mandarin was just a figurehead, yeah. But was he really? The dude at the end was the real "Mandarin" in my opinion. He just used the terrorist angle to cover up. He created the Mandarin, so by default, he IS the real Mandarin regardless of who got the title of Mandarin. Talia did create Bane in a way, but overall comparing the two is grasping at straws.

Ok, since nobody seems to understand what I'm trying to say, let me spell it the **** out.

Bane was a legit villain, however he wasn't the true villain of the movie, as we find out later. He did most of the dirty work, but he didn't plot anything. Talia did. He was moreso the bull that matadors fight. You could argue that the bull is nothing without its orders and training from the true master.

This is a similarity to the villain situation in Iron man 3. It's obviously not the same, but since since many of you appear slightly too simple-minded to work your way through my posts, I'll point the difference out anyway. The similarity lies in the fact that we find out that Killian is behind the Mandarin just as we find out that Talia is the mastermind behind Bane. THis has nothing to do with bane being the fake villain, he isn't. The similarity has to do with the revelation of a higher power later in the movie.

I'm honestly surprised I had to say that. Am I really hated to the point that people try to start arguments with me just because that can't work around my figurative and somewhat disjointed writing style?

By your logic, Iron Man 3's "twist" rips off hundreds of films, figurehead position or not, since "that isnt what this is about", your words, not mine.

The whole "I was in charge ALL ALONG! MUAHAHAHAHHAH!!!" thing has been done to death to the point that its not about when it happens, its how. Really nearly ever movie trilogy has a bad guy who's really a good guy in disguise, or a good guy who turns treacherous. Look at the Transformers films, Megatron was really working for the fallen.

Yeah, thats pretty obvious in film 2, but Darth Vader being Palpatine's servant wasn't exactly a secret.

And again, I get what you mean, the simularaties are just extremely minor. One point of plot thats been done to death. Its there, but it doesn't make Iron Man 3 TDKR just by that one major simularaty. All others mentioned are also very common in film, so the list is endless.

So yeah, straws.

prowl123 wrote:Ok, since nobody seems to understand what I'm trying to say, let me spell it the **** out.

Bane was a legit villain, however he wasn't the true villain of the movie, as we find out later. He did most of the dirty work, but he didn't plot anything. Talia did. He was moreso the bull that matadors fight. You could argue that the bull is nothing without its orders and training from the true master.

This is a similarity to the villain situation in Iron man 3. It's obviously not the same, but since since many of you appear slightly too simple-minded to work your way through my posts, I'll point the difference out anyway. The similarity lies in the fact that we find out that Killian is behind the Mandarin just as we find out that Talia is the mastermind behind Bane. THis has nothing to do with bane being the fake villain, he isn't. The similarity has to do with the revelation of a higher power later in the movie.

I'm honestly surprised I had to say that. Am I really hated to the point that people try to start arguments with me just because that can't work around my figurative and somewhat disjointed writing style?

Maybe if you didn't call them simple minded.

prowl123 wrote:Ok, since nobody seems to understand what I'm trying to say, let me spell it the **** out.

Bane was a legit villain, however he wasn't the true villain of the movie, as we find out later. He did most of the dirty work, but he didn't plot anything. Talia did. He was moreso the bull that matadors fight. You could argue that the bull is nothing without its orders and training from the true master.

This is a similarity to the villain situation in Iron man 3. It's obviously not the same, but since since many of you appear slightly too simple-minded to work your way through my posts, I'll point the difference out anyway. The similarity lies in the fact that we find out that Killian is behind the Mandarin just as we find out that Talia is the mastermind behind Bane. THis has nothing to do with bane being the fake villain, he isn't. The similarity has to do with the revelation of a higher power later in the movie.

I'm honestly surprised I had to say that. Am I really hated to the point that people try to start arguments with me just because that can't work around my figurative and somewhat disjointed writing style?

The issue is that the point you tried to make...well, it's just false. You're initial complaint was about Iron Man 3 ripping off the plot of TDKR, but your initial points are so vague and generic that, like BeastProwl said, they can be applied to dozens, hundreds of other movies. And even when you "spell it the **** out" for us "simple-minded" folk, all you do is highly the differences between the characters from those movies; IE, Mandarin did absolutely nothing and is much closer to the doll from Saw than anyone from TDKR, whereas Bane broke Batman's spine and nearly blew up Gotham. Even if they were both taking orders from someone else, it's so vague that it can hardly be counted as "ripping off."

The plots are nothing alike, you made a bad call. No two ways about it.

Shadowman wrote:

prowl123 wrote:Ok, since nobody seems to understand what I'm trying to say, let me spell it the **** out.

Bane was a legit villain, however he wasn't the true villain of the movie, as we find out later. He did most of the dirty work, but he didn't plot anything. Talia did. He was moreso the bull that matadors fight. You could argue that the bull is nothing without its orders and training from the true master.

This is a similarity to the villain situation in Iron man 3. It's obviously not the same, but since since many of you appear slightly too simple-minded to work your way through my posts, I'll point the difference out anyway. The similarity lies in the fact that we find out that Killian is behind the Mandarin just as we find out that Talia is the mastermind behind Bane. THis has nothing to do with bane being the fake villain, he isn't. The similarity has to do with the revelation of a higher power later in the movie.

I'm honestly surprised I had to say that. Am I really hated to the point that people try to start arguments with me just because that can't work around my figurative and somewhat disjointed writing style?

The issue is that the point you tried to make...well, it's just false. You're initial complaint was about Iron Man 3 ripping off the plot of TDKR, but your initial points are so vague and generic that, like BeastProwl said, they can be applied to dozens, hundreds of other movies. And even when you "spell it the **** out" for us "simple-minded" folk, all you do is highly the differences between the characters from those movies; IE, Mandarin did absolutely nothing and is much closer to the doll from Saw than anyone from TDKR, whereas Bane broke Batman's spine and nearly blew up Gotham. Even if they were both taking orders from someone else, it's so vague that it can hardly be counted as "ripping off."

The plots are nothing alike, you made a bad call. No two ways about it.

I really want you to read what I posted again because you obviously didn't read it. The point is that there was another greater mastermind (not necessarily the muscle in the case of TDKR) above the villain. Also, yes the Mandarin did do ****. he killed a few people. I don't consider it ripping off, I just find the similarities too obvious. Whether you agree with me or not, they are most certainly similar. You might also want to reread that article I posted because you obviously didn't read that either.

Can we just ignore this guy and get back to the awesomeness that is iron man 3?

prowl123 wrote:I really want you to read what I posted again because you obviously didn't read it. The point is that there was another greater mastermind (not necessarily the muscle in the case of TDKR) above the villain. Also, yes the Mandarin did do ****. he killed a few people. I don't consider it ripping off, I just find the similarities too obvious. Whether you agree with me or not, they are most certainly similar. You might also want to reread that article I posted because you obviously didn't read that either.

And like I said, if you had bothered to read my post, is that's far too vague to even be considered an "obvious similarity." There's an entire TVtropes page dedicated to this. Your other two points are equally vague, by the way. If you consider the most general storytelling concepts to be "obvious similarities" and take issue with that, then you're going to have a problem with every story ever told.

njb902 wrote:Can we just ignore this guy and get back to the awesomeness that is iron man 3?

Do let's.

In all honesty, can you really make a shock glove like tony did when he broke in? Blast Knuckles come close, but can you DIY that kind of thing?

BeastProwl wrote:In all honesty, can you really make a shock glove like tony did when he broke in? Blast Knuckles come close, but can you DIY that kind of thing?

Maybe if you wore a battery backpack.

Wow... I swear nobody can read.

I'm done here.

**** movie, unoriginal plot.

That's my opinion. Done.

BeastProwl wrote:In all honesty, can you really make a shock glove like tony did when he broke in? Blast Knuckles come close, but can you DIY that kind of thing?

Keep in mind that, when stuck in a cave with a box of scraps, he built a miniature Arc Reactor, something no one even considered to be possible. When left in his Malibu home with a bunch of top-of-the-line tech, he managed to reverse engineer the Tessaract. (At least, it's heavily implied that's what he made) Tony Stark doesn't need something to be plausible in order for it to be built. He just needs it to be awesome.

Shadowman wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:In all honesty, can you really make a shock glove like tony did when he broke in? Blast Knuckles come close, but can you DIY that kind of thing?

Keep in mind that, when stuck in a cave with a box of scraps, he built a miniature Arc Reactor, something no one even considered to be possible. When left in his Malibu home with a bunch of top-of-the-line tech, he managed to reverse engineer the Tessaract. (At least, it's heavily implied that's what he made) Tony Stark doesn't need something to be plausible in order for it to be built. He just needs it to be awesome.

That's a fantastic way to look at it. I'll admit I didn't pick up on the tessaract angle.

njb902 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:In all honesty, can you really make a shock glove like tony did when he broke in? Blast Knuckles come close, but can you DIY that kind of thing?

Keep in mind that, when stuck in a cave with a box of scraps, he built a miniature Arc Reactor, something no one even considered to be possible. When left in his Malibu home with a bunch of top-of-the-line tech, he managed to reverse engineer the Tessaract. (At least, it's heavily implied that's what he made) Tony Stark doesn't need something to be plausible in order for it to be built. He just needs it to be awesome.

That's a fantastic way to look at it. I'll admit I didn't pick up on the tessaract angle.

In Howard Stark's notes in Iron Man 2, you can briefly see a drawing of an actual Tessaract. (That is, a 3D representation of a four-dimensional cube) He was the last one seen with it, and somewhere they mention he was doing work on it. The implication is that the element he laid out for Tony to synthesize was basically the last puzzle piece in recreating the Tessaract; he could see it, but he couldn't make it. He specifically left Tony the blueprints for the element, disguised as a blooper reel on a promotional video, because, well, between HYDRA and Vanko, he didn't want to risk anyone but Tony getting his hands on it.

At least, that's the way I saw it.

Shadowman wrote:

njb902 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:In all honesty, can you really make a shock glove like tony did when he broke in? Blast Knuckles come close, but can you DIY that kind of thing?

Keep in mind that, when stuck in a cave with a box of scraps, he built a miniature Arc Reactor, something no one even considered to be possible. When left in his Malibu home with a bunch of top-of-the-line tech, he managed to reverse engineer the Tessaract. (At least, it's heavily implied that's what he made) Tony Stark doesn't need something to be plausible in order for it to be built. He just needs it to be awesome.

That's a fantastic way to look at it. I'll admit I didn't pick up on the tessaract angle.

In Howard Stark's notes in Iron Man 2, you can briefly see a drawing of an actual Tessaract. (That is, a 3D representation of a five-dimensional cube) He was the last one seen with it, and somewhere they mention he was doing work on it. The implication is that the element he laid out for Tony to synthesize was basically the last puzzle piece in recreating the Tessaract; he could see it, but he couldn't make it. He specifically left Tony the blueprints for the element, disguised as a blooper reel on a promotional video, because, well, between HYDRA and Vanko, he didn't want to risk anyone but Tony getting his hands on it.

At least, that's the way I saw it.

Huh I guess I never put the 2 together.

Shadowman, please stop blowing my mind, it's too early in the day...