The Energon Pub

there's a bomb on a bus. What do you do Jack? What do you do?

While in reality, they obviously didn't have people on the bus, within the story, we are meant to believe that there are indeed people on it that were killed by Bonecrusher body-checking it.

Yes. People were on the bus.
No, not literally, seeing as the bus was rigged with pyrotechnics behind the scenes, but yes...there were people on the bus, which is what prompted Prime to turn and fight Bonecrusher.

Hell, there were people in the cars he was tossing around.

The fact that some of you can even watch that clip and see the exact opposite of what happened...is just...wow.

If Bonecrusher merely 'lubricated' those people on the bus, do you think Prime would still have fought him?

vectorA3 wrote:If Bonecrusher merely 'lubricated' those people on the bus, do you think Prime would still have fought him?

Probably, as it was written into the script.

Creature SH wrote:One of the definitive lowpoints for Transformers as a whole.

I laughed my ass off as did all my other TF fan friends. The whole theater laughed too. Call it immature if you want, but hey, It's our "immaturity" that makes us fans of toys that are meant for little kids in the first place.

Sid Burn wrote:This is painful, some of the posters on this thread really need to LIGHTEN UP. TF is geared primarily towards CHILDREN, most of us that collect got hooked when we were.... you guessed it, CHILDREN.

If you want a darker TF universe, that is what the comics serve. Even past that, I think there were many scenes where the decepticons came off as scary, dark and merciless.

The movie did an amazing job of servicing every point of interest, fans, parents, kids and general moviegoers.

Fans DO ruin things after the fact, I think some fans got in their heads that they would hate the film and that dictated their mindset while watching, I feel sorry for these fans.

And to all who thought prime was too brutal on Bonecrusher, 'crusher had just murdered a busload of people, and the Prime I know doesnt take that kind of thing well.
Too often people confuse Primes compassion for weakness. Prime has had some kind of blade in his forearm since G1, what is he supposed to do with it, pet kittens?

Dude! QFT!!! I agree 100 percent!
Those fans you speak of really missed out because alot of them hated the movie before it was even out.

Sid Burn wrote:Fans DO ruin things after the fact, I think some fans got in their heads that they would hate the film and that dictated their mindset while watching, I feel sorry for these fans.

Very true but I'd say an equal proportion of fans made themselves like this movie because they wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they didn't. I almost did it myself, making excuses for why they made the movie the way they did, why the designs were so ugly, why they chose Bay as the director and so on, clutching at morsels of goodness, hoping something would help me over look the inherent wrongness of this movie. All because I loved Transformers so much and didn't want to let go, I expect many 'fans' of the movie did the same and succeeded. I feel sorry for these fans because no matter how hard you try you can't polish a turd.

Yours AK

I disagree with you Alex. The movie was exactly what it was meant to be a good old-fashioned action adventure popcorn fun blockbuster. Do you honestly believe that the movie sould have been anything more than that? Do you honestly believe that the designs used would have looked any worse than if they had tried to use the actual cartoon designs from the 80's? While the movie designs may have been a bit overly complex, they were a batter choice than trying to directly conmvert the original cartoon or toy designs to live action. The shot of Bumblebee "lubricating" on Agent Simmons was also not only completely in character for Bumblebee, but funny because Agent Simmons actually deserved it. He was an obnoxious, self-righteous SOB who had it coming to him. That is what made it funny. It wasn't just the fact that Bumblebee lubricated on him, it was the fact that he got what was coming to him in such a way that he was not harmed. He was just humiliated.

Tramp wrote:I disagree with you Alex. The movie was exactly what it was meant to be a good old-fashioned action adventure popcorn fun blockbuster. Do you honestly believe that the movie sould have been anything more than that? Do you honestly believe that the designs used would have looked any worse than if they had tried to use the actual cartoon designs from the 80's? While the movie designs may have been a bit overly complex, they were a batter choice than trying to directly conmvert the original cartoon or toy designs to live action. The shot of Bumblebee "lubricating" on Agent Simmons was also not only completely in character for Bumblebee, but funny because Agent Simmons actually deserved it. He was an obnoxious, self-righteous SOB who had it coming to him. That is what made it funny. It wasn't just the fact that Bumblebee lubricated on him, it was the fact that he got what was coming to him in such a way that he was not harmed. He was just humiliated.

Hey! WOW That power to be so wordy actually does come in handy! But yeah, I agree with you on this one. Just like it has been said before, everyone has their own Idea in their head of what the perfect movie is. And if the movie doesnt fit their idea, it will suck.

Tramp wrote:I disagree with you Alex. The movie was exactly what it was meant to be a good old-fashioned action adventure popcorn fun blockbuster.

I don’t think I said it wasn't. What it was meant to be was decided by the studio, director and so on and I'm sure they are very happy with what they achived. However that doesnt mean I have to like it.

Tramp wrote:Do you honestly believe that the movie sould have been anything more than that?

Yes I do, It should have been about Transformers not a movie about flashy cars, teen romance, the US Military, explosions, slapstick comedy and product placement that used transforming robots as it's Unique Selling Point and not its focus.

Tramp wrote:Do you honestly believe that the designs used would have looked any worse than if they had tried to use the actual cartoon designs from the 80's?

No and I don’t believe I ever said I did.

Tramp wrote:While the movie designs may have been a bit overly complex, they were a batter choice than trying to directly conmvert the original cartoon or toy designs to live action.

Im not arguing that. What I would say (although not at all my original point) is the movie designs were IMO ugly, overly conplex and for the most part difficult to identify on screen. They were so far removed from that we know as Transformers that I found it very hard to identify them as such or feel any sort of connection with them. I would have preferred something with more character that took it's que from what came before rather than directly try to emulate it, but that's just me.

Tramp wrote:The shot of Bumblebee "lubricating" on Agent Simmons was also not only completely in character for Bumblebee, but funny because Agent Simmons actually deserved it. He was an obnoxious, self-righteous SOB who had it coming to him. That is what made it funny.

Actually I found the character of Agent Simmons almost as cringe-worthy as Bumblebee lubricated on him. It was purile Hollywood BS unfunny comedy. For a movie that was attempting to be 'realistic' with it's secret government organisations, US Marines, Hackers, and realistic alt-modes and transformations this guy was a such an unbelievable caricature that he could have come straight out of the 80's cartoon.

Tramp wrote:It wasn't just the fact that Bumblebee lubricated on him, it was the fact that he got what was coming to him in such a way that he was not harmed. He was just humiliated.

Personally I found it way more humiliating for Bumblebee, Prime and the rest of the Autobots that in a 'first contact' situation their scout and first contact guy lubricated all over a representative of the ruling body of the planet they just landed on. It’s not really good interplanetary relations in my book.

Besides all this is rather beside the point I was making. Sid Burn claims some fans were so determined to hate the film and that dictated their mindset while watching, which I concede is probably true. However it I also believe that an equal number of fans were so eager/desperate to like it that they were willing to forgive a multitude of sins in order to remain a diehard Transformers fan.


Yours AK

That's just it. It is that very last part I really disagree with you on. Most fans went in there with an open mind and took the movie for what it was, a fun action adventure blockbuster, a "popcorn" movie. TransFormers is not and never has been "high art" story-telling. It's fun science fiction combining action, humor, a bit of romance. dashing heres and nasty villains. All the good stuff of a Saturday morning matinee. As for the TransFormers themselves; the original G1 TransFormers were all real cars and vehicles. The movie just made use of that too. Also, product placement is actually better and more realistic. We don't live in a "generic" world. Which is more ralistic, eating at some made-up joint or Burger King. Do people drive generic cars or Chevy's and Potiac's and Fords? To people eat Acme cereal or HoneyComb? Do they buy things on Superauction.com or EBay? We live in a brand name world. Thus it makes perfect sense to have real brand names in the movie. Not only is product placement more realistic, it also saves money because the companies pay the film to use their products. This makes the movie less expensive to produce, which is a smart financial strategy.

Secondly, From a story-telling perspecitve, it had to be told from the human point of view because, since this is the first movie, we are being introduced to the TransFormers for the first time, and it is the humans who we, the audience, would most relate to. It is through the eyes of the humans in the story that we learn about the Autobots and Decepticons. It is through Sam Witwickey's eyes that we come to know Optimus Prime and Bumblebee and the rest. Without the human story, We never really know the TransFormers. Remember, this movie was not made just for the die-hard fans. It was made for the general public. Thus, the movie cannot assume that everyone knows the ins-and-outs of TF lore. They need to be introduced to it through human eyes. You can't do it through the eyes of the TransFormers themselves. It has to be told from the human perspective. Also, without the Humans, the whole point of the TransFormers being "Robots In Disguise" becomes moot because there would be no one to hide from. Not only that, money is also an issue. Too many TransFormers or too much screen time on them would cost an astronomical amount of money, making such a movie impossible. It is a balancing act.

Tramp wrote:That's just it. It is that very last part I really disagree with you on. Most fans went in there with an open mind and took the movie for what it was, a fun action adventure blockbuster, a "popcorn" movie.

And I wasn't disputing that, you've missed my point again. Im not going to argue the finer points of why I thought it was both a bad movie and a poor adaptation of the source material, I think I've done that enough in other threads. I'm also not going to reiterate my original point because if you didn't manage to grasp it the first two times I doubt you will this time. Let's just agree to disagree eh?

Yours AK

Autobot032 wrote:Yes. People were on the bus.
No, not literally, seeing as the bus was rigged with pyrotechnics behind the scenes, but yes...there were people on the bus, which is what prompted Prime to turn and fight Bonecrusher.

Hell, there were people in the cars he was tossing around.

The fact that some of you can even watch that clip and see the exact opposite of what happened...is just...wow.

QFT, so bizzare that people would watch the scene and think "good thing there were no people on that bus"

I have to laugh. Either way, Prime's manner of dealing with 'crusher was justified, AND AWESOME!

Tramp wrote:From a story-telling perspecitve, it had to be told from the human point of view because, since this is the first movie, we are being introduced to the TransFormers for the first time, and it is the humans who we, the audience, would most relate to. It is through the eyes of the humans in the story that we learn about the Autobots and Decepticons. It is through Sam Witwickey's eyes that we come to know Optimus Prime and Bumblebee and the rest. Without the human story, We never really know the TransFormers. Remember, this movie was not made just for the die-hard fans. It was made for the general public. Thus, the movie cannot assume that everyone knows the ins-and-outs of TF lore. They need to be introduced to it through human eyes. You can't do it through the eyes of the TransFormers themselves. It has to be told from the human perspective. Also, without the Humans, the whole point of the TransFormers being "Robots In Disguise" becomes moot because there would be no one to hide from. Not only that, money is also an issue. Too many TransFormers or too much screen time on them would cost an astronomical amount of money, making such a movie impossible. It is a balancing act.

QFT! Everyone should read this post. Fans always seem to wish for less human interaction, but the human factor is what adds the sense of awe. Human characters are needed for Transformers to be at its best, Especially when introducing the characters.

Alex Kingdom wrote:

Tramp wrote:That's just it. It is that very last part I really disagree with you on. Most fans went in there with an open mind and took the movie for what it was, a fun action adventure blockbuster, a "popcorn" movie.

And I wasn't disputing that, you've missed my point again. Im not going to argue the finer points of why I thought it was both a bad movie and a poor adaptation of the source material, I think I've done that enough in other threads. I'm also not going to reiterate my original point because if you didn't manage to grasp it the first two times I doubt you will this time. Let's just agree to disagree eh?

Yours AK

Gotta say AK, you are free to have whatever opinion you like but I think you are being really tight assed about the entire TF movie experience.

I think that people would regard you as 'that transformer superfan' who just cant enjoy something unless it somehow pays homage to every nuance of the TF fiction as you see it. That is the kind of fan who spoils things for others. You are SOOOOO steadfast in your correct or incorrect beliefs about the way the characters "should" be acting, that it takes the fun out of it for you and whomever has to listen to you.

This was the case for Spiderman as well, when fans just COULDNT get over the organic web shooters, they let silly fanboy nitpicking trip them up and spoil a great movie that payed beautiful homage to the Spiderman fiction.

I actually feel bad that you couldnt enjoy the film, it really provided me with that sense of awe I had as a kid.
Stirred up all kinds of emotions that I havent had since I was very young. It was great, sorry you couldnt have that as well. I think you may have done that to yourself though.

Again, let me stress, to each his own, but you seem determined to let everyone know that you werent impressed. Debating over whether BB should have lubricated on a human?
This is one of your factors for not enjoying the movie? Really?

Toyotus Superion wrote:Dude! QFT!!! I agree 100 percent!
Those fans you speak of really missed out because alot of them hated the movie before it was even out.

They have my pity actually, I wont be drawn into arguments with them either.

They really missed out on a great experience, moments in that film that just amazed gen.audiences and fans alike are lost on some because they are dissecting the whole experience line by line throughout, looking for things that clash with how TF "should" be.

Actually I didn't hate the movie, I didn't like it all that much but there were parts I though they did 'right' not that I am the authority on what is right and wrong or 'that transformer superfan' you speak of, Im just giving you my opinion. I liked a lot of first half of the movie, I thought Shia did a really great (and often laugh out loud funny) job in playing a believable character and making a real conection with the TF characters. It's just a shame that most of the TFs had no character to speak of and the majority of the exessively large human cast were as one dimetional as the TFs. For me the bad momments out weighed the good and BB's lubricating was one of those momments, othewise I would have happily changed my mind about the movie and jump on the 'Yay Bay!' bandwagon with you guys, but I just wasnt feeling it.

Yours AK

For once, i agree with Tramp!

couldn't agree more with tramp, and I am a diehard G1 fan. As with anything in life, you can't have everything and everything can't be perfect as much as we'd like it to be. (Unless you are Chuck Norris, of course) just j/k

Alex Kingdom wrote:Yes I do, It should have been about Transformers not a movie about flashy cars, teen romance, the US Military, explosions, slapstick comedy and product placement that used transforming robots as it's Unique Selling Point and not its focus.

good point

Tramp wrote:That's just it. It is that very last part I really disagree with you on. Most fans went in there with an open mind and took the movie for what it was, a fun action adventure blockbuster, a "popcorn" movie. TransFormers is not and never has been "high art" story-telling. It's fun science fiction combining action, humor, a bit of romance. dashing heres and nasty villains. All the good stuff of a Saturday morning matinee. As for the TransFormers themselves; the original G1 TransFormers were all real cars and vehicles. The movie just made use of that too. Also, product placement is actually better and more realistic. We don't live in a "generic" world. Which is more ralistic, eating at some made-up joint or Burger King. Do people drive generic cars or Chevy's and Potiac's and Fords? To people eat Acme cereal or HoneyComb? Do they buy things on Superauction.com or EBay? We live in a brand name world. Thus it makes perfect sense to have real brand names in the movie. Not only is product placement more realistic, it also saves money because the companies pay the film to use their products. This makes the movie less expensive to produce, which is a smart financial strategy.

Secondly, From a story-telling perspecitve, it had to be told from the human point of view because, since this is the first movie, we are being introduced to the TransFormers for the first time, and it is the humans who we, the audience, would most relate to. It is through the eyes of the humans in the story that we learn about the Autobots and Decepticons. It is through Sam Witwickey's eyes that we come to know Optimus Prime and Bumblebee and the rest. Without the human story, We never really know the TransFormers. Remember, this movie was not made just for the die-hard fans. It was made for the general public. Thus, the movie cannot assume that everyone knows the ins-and-outs of TF lore. They need to be introduced to it through human eyes. You can't do it through the eyes of the TransFormers themselves. It has to be told from the human perspective. Also, without the Humans, the whole point of the TransFormers being "Robots In Disguise" becomes moot because there would be no one to hide from. Not only that, money is also an issue. Too many TransFormers or too much screen time on them would cost an astronomical amount of money, making such a movie impossible. It is a balancing act.

this sums it up. End of discussion.
This is also why we shouldn't compare TF '86 to this movie b/c they are 2 separate entities each good in their own right

syphonn wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Yes I do, It should have been about Transformers not a movie about flashy cars, teen romance, the US Military, explosions, slapstick comedy and product placement that used transforming robots as it's Unique Selling Point and not its focus.

good point

I agree to that.

Auto Bot wrote:

syphonn wrote:

Alex Kingdom wrote:Yes I do, It should have been about Transformers not a movie about flashy cars, teen romance, the US Military, explosions, slapstick comedy and product placement that used transforming robots as it's Unique Selling Point and not its focus.

good point

I agree to that.

Well I'm glad somebody does

Obviously it was vital that the movie involve humans and that they remain central to the plot. However I felt the movie had too many and in some cases poorly developed and/or unnecessary human characters eating up screen time that could have been put to better use developing the core characters be they TF or human. I personally felt that the 'Transformers' in this 'Transformers' movie were seldom used as anything more than a plot device for a comedy/action/disaster/effects movie, replace them with aliens, monsters, creatures from another dimension and you'd still have much the same movie.

Anyway this is all rather 'off-topic', so I'll stop banging on about what I disliked about the movie and let you guys get on with arguing whether a Transformer weeing all over a guy was in poor taste or not, TBH I think it's a nobrainer.

Yours AK

Actually, the best parts are all in the teasers and previews. You don't really need to watch the movie itself.

Lubricating scene NOT in the trailer. That's your answer.