The Energon Pub

Professor Smooth wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:What are you talking about Smooth? There have been a number of plane crashes since 9/11 that are either known to be or suspected to be terroerist related.

Yeah? Where's your evidence?

Jar Axel wrote:Lets face most attacks that don't strike a major nerve tend to get swept under the rug deliberatly. It helps to maintain this false view of national security held by the public.

Does anyone else think that this is just so much conspiracy theory BS? If you are going to make a claim like "terrorists have hijacked and crashed airplanes since 9/11" then you had damn well better have some evidence to back it up. So please, provide us with some news reports.

My dear Proffeser Smooth where did I ever say that they had hijacked and crashed? I said they had bombed them.

Also you want me to provide proof that this has happened? Fine you provide proof that it hasen't first. You want a link to google?

Jar Axel wrote:
My dear Proffeser Smooth where did I ever say that they had hijacked and crashed? I said they had bombed them.

Also you want me to provide proof that this has happened? Fine you provide proof that it hasen't first. You want a link to google?

We are at an impasse. I refused to deal with people who molest little boys. As soon as you provide the board with proof that you aren't a pedophile, I will speak with you again.

Professor Smooth wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:
My dear Proffeser Smooth where did I ever say that they had hijacked and crashed? I said they had bombed them.

Also you want me to provide proof that this has happened? Fine you provide proof that it hasen't first. You want a link to google?

We are at an impasse. I refused to deal with people who molest little boys. As soon as you provide the board with proof that you aren't a pedophile, I will speak with you again.

Smooth, you win the thread with that one

Spoon wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:

Jar Axel wrote:
My dear Proffeser Smooth where did I ever say that they had hijacked and crashed? I said they had bombed them.

Also you want me to provide proof that this has happened? Fine you provide proof that it hasen't first. You want a link to google?

We are at an impasse. I refused to deal with people who molest little boys. As soon as you provide the board with proof that you aren't a pedophile, I will speak with you again.

Smooth, you win the thread with that one

Even as funny as it was, it was still innappropriate. The point stands though. We have asked Jar Axel for proof, and instead of providing it, he has passed the question back to us to cut down on the amount of work for him to do to defend his argument.

Fender Bender wrote:
Even as funny as it was, it was still innappropriate. The point stands though. We have asked Jar Axel for proof, and instead of providing it, he has passed the question back to us to cut down on the amount of work for him to do to defend his argument.

Truly sorry to offend. It seemed the most direct way of pointing out the flaws involved with the "prove it DIDN'T happen" argument.

Still waiting on that evidence, btw.

Professor Smooth wrote:

Fender Bender wrote:
Even as funny as it was, it was still innappropriate. The point stands though. We have asked Jar Axel for proof, and instead of providing it, he has passed the question back to us to cut down on the amount of work for him to do to defend his argument.

Truly sorry to offend. It seemed the most direct way of pointing out the flaws involved with the "prove it DIDN'T happen" argument.

Still waiting on that evidence, btw.

You think you have a point by saying I haven't done my homework? The reason I want you to show me that attacks haven't been happening is to show you that you haven't done yours. I want you to find what little remains of the articals for yourselves instead of attacking what I bring to the board; not cut down on my own workload.

Besides you can't go around gripeing and complaining about how the other side of the argument doesn't offer any evidence when you yourself have offered none.

Jar Axel wrote:

Professor Smooth wrote:

Fender Bender wrote:
Even as funny as it was, it was still innappropriate. The point stands though. We have asked Jar Axel for proof, and instead of providing it, he has passed the question back to us to cut down on the amount of work for him to do to defend his argument.

Truly sorry to offend. It seemed the most direct way of pointing out the flaws involved with the "prove it DIDN'T happen" argument.

Still waiting on that evidence, btw.

You think you have a point by saying I haven't done my homework? The reason I want you to show me that attacks haven't been happening is to show you that you haven't done yours. I want you to find what little remains of the articals for yourselves instead of attacking what I bring to the board; not cut down on my own workload.

Besides you can't go around gripeing and complaining about how the other side of the argument doesn't offer any evidence when you yourself have offered none.

Do you have any idea how hypocritical that last statement was? WE asked for proof FIRST. It is YOUR responsibility to provide proof to support your argument, as we have challenged you to do it first. Continuing to ask us for proof while withholding your own makes it seem like you are stalling while you try to find some.

After YOU post proof supporting your argument, I'm sure Smooth or I will have our own proof for our arguments.

Fender Bender wrote:

Do you have any idea how hypocritical that last statement was? WE asked for proof FIRST. It is YOUR responsibility to provide proof to support your argument, as we have challenged you to do it first. Continuing to ask us for proof while withholding your own makes it seem like you are stalling while you try to find some.

After YOU post proof supporting your argument, I'm sure Smooth or I will have our own proof for our arguments.

Damn straight.

Here's a list of aircraft crashes that killed at least most of the people on board (as a bomb would do) since 2001.


2001
July 4, Irkutsk, Russia: Russian Tupolev-154 crashed on its third approach to the runway for a refueling stop, killing all 145 people.
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: For the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, see Terrorist Attacks.
Oct. 8, Milan, Italy: Scandinavian Airlines System (SAS) MD-87 jet bound for Copenhagen hit a Cessna aircraft during takeoff in a heavy fog at Milan's Linate airport. All 104 passengers and 6 crew aboard the airliner, as well as the four people in the smaller plane and four airport workers, were killed in what is one of Italy's worst air disasters
Nov. 12, Queens, N.Y.: American Airlines Airbus A-300, bound for the Dominican Republic, crashed into residential neighborhood minutes after taking off from JFK International Airport. All 260 people aboard and 5 on the ground were killed.

2002
Feb. 12, western Iran: Iranian airliner en route from Teheran to Khorramabad crashed into a mountain while trying to land, killing all 118 aboard. Overcast or foggy conditions may have contributed to the crash.
April 15, nr. Pusan, South Korea: Air China Boeing 767 en route from Beijing crashed into a forested hillside near airport, killing at least 115 people. Miraculously, 38 passengers survived. Poor weather conditions were blamed for the crash.
May 4, Kano, Nigeria: EAS Airline BAC 1-11 bound for Lagos plowed into a poor, densely populated suburb of Kano shortly after takeoff, killing 148. Dead included all 76 aboard and dozens on the ground.
May 7, Dalian Bay, northeast China: China Northern Airlines MD-82 jet crashed into the bay shortly after captain reported a fire in the cabin. Out of 103 passengers and 9 crew aboard, none survived.
May 25, nr. Pescadores off western Taiwan: China Airlines Boeing 747, bound for Hong Kong with 225 people aboard, broke apart in midair and plunged into sea 20 minutes after takeoff from Taipei. There were no survivors.
July 27, nr. Lviv, Ukraine: Russian-built Sukhoi-27 fighter jet crashed while performing an acrobatic maneuver during an air show. 83 people were killed, including 23 children; the 2 pilots ejected to safety. It is the worst air show disaster in history.

2003
Feb. 19, nr. Shahdad, Iran: Iranian military airplane, Ilyushin Il-76MD, carrying members of Iran's Revolutionary Guards, crashed in the Sirach Mountains, killing all 276 on board, making this Iran's worst air disaster.
March 6, Tamanrasset, Algeria: An Algerian Boeing 737 crashed after takeoff from Tamanrasset, killing 102 people.
July 8, Port Sudan, Sudan: a Sudan Airways airplane, a Boeing 737, experienced technical difficulties shortly after takeoff and crashed while attempting to return to the Port Sudan airport. One child survived and 116 passengers and crew perished.
Dec. 25, Cotonou, Benin: a chartered Boeing 727 jet bound for Beirut, Lebanon, crashed after hitting a building on takeoff, killing at least 140 people.

2004
Aug. 24, Moscow, Russia: two Russian planes, both departing from Moscow's airport, crashed within minutes of each other, killing a total of 89 people. Explosives were found on both flights.

2005
Feb. 3, Kabul, Afghanistan: Afghan Kam Air, Boeing 737, bound to Kabul crashed in the mountains, killing 105.
Aug. 14, Athens, Greece: a Helios Airways, Boeing 737, en route from Cyprus to Athens lost cabin pressure and crashed when it ran out of fuel, killing all 121 on board.
Aug. 16, western Venezuela: a chartered West Caribbean Airways, MD-82, en route from Panama to Martinique, crashed in remote western Venezuela, killing all 160 on board.
Sept. 5, Medan, Indonesia: Mandala Airlines, Boeing 737, crashed soon after takeoff, killing 102 on board and 47 on the ground; 13 passengers survived.
Oct. 22, Lagos, Nigeria: after take-off from Lagos, a Nigerian Bellview Airlines Boeing 737-200 enroute to Abuja crashed, killing all 117.
Dec. 6, Tehran, Iran: Iranian military plane, a Lockheed C-130, crashed during an emergency landing the Tehran airport, hit an apartment building, and killed at least 115.
Dec. 10, Port Harcourt, Nigeria: Nigerian Sosoliso Airlines plane carrying 110 crashed during landing, killing 106.
Dec. 19, Miami, Fla.: Chalk's Ocean Airways, Grumman G73 seaplane, headed to the Bahamas, crashed into the ocean off Miami, killing all 20 on-board.

2006
May 3, Sochi, Russia: an Armavia (Armenian airline), Airbus A-320, crashed in the Black Sea en route to Sochi, killing all 113 aboard.


July 9, Siberia, Russia: a Russian airline S7 Airbus A-310 slid off the end of the runway just after landing in Irkutsk, killing 122 people.
July 10, Multan, Pakistan: a Pakistan International Airlines Fokker F-27 turboprop crashed minutes after take off, killing all 45 on board.


Aug. 22, Donetsk, Ukraine: a Pulkovo (Russian) airliner, TU 154, flying from the Black Sea resort town of Anapa to St. Petersburg , reported a fire on board and crashed in stormy weather, killing all 170, including 45 children, on board.


Aug. 27, Lexington, Ky.: Comair Flight 5191, a Bombardier commuter jet, crashed after attempting to take off on the wrong runway, killing 49.

2007
Jan. 1, Indonesia: Adam Air Flight KI-574, flying from Java to Manado, crashed in stormy weather and strong winds, killing all of the 102 people on board.

March 7, Yogyakarta, Indonesia: A Garuda Indonesia Airlines plane overshot the runway and crashed, killing 22 of the 140 people on board.

May 5, Doula, Cameroon: A Kenya-bound Kenya Airways plane took off in stormy weather and crashed moments later, killing all 114 people on board.

Your move, Mr. Jackson.

FB you have asked for proof. I have not stated that I will not give you any. You claim that the fact that you asked for proof first means that I should go dig up evidence that if you had prepaired yourself for the argument you would already be aware of.

If you are not prepaired to provide evidence then you have no basis by which to ask for any. This shows a severe lack in the security of your position. I am secure in mine thus this is all the evidence I feel the need to provide http://www.google.com/



Smooth one more time and I make a complaint to CB. Understood?

Jar Axel wrote:
Smooth one more time and I make a complaint to CB. Understood?

Let me spare you the trouble.

After being contacted about this I am issuing a warning towards Professor Smooth about his comments which insinuate that someone is a “child molester” just to prove a point.
Staff or not, this is completely unacceptable and should not happen. I have contacted Ryan about this issue so further disciplinary actions may happen.

The staff is not above the rules.

Jar Axel wrote:FB you have asked for proof. I have not stated that I will not give you any. You claim that the fact that you asked for proof first means that I should go dig up evidence that if you had prepaired yourself for the argument you would already be aware of.

If you are not prepaired to provide evidence then you have no basis by which to ask for any. This shows a severe lack in the security of your position. I am secure in mine thus this is all the evidence I feel the need to provide http://www.google.com/

You still don't get how a debate works. Everything that you just said applies to yourself, before it applies to me. What I would like to know is why YOU are unprepared. You keep stalling your argument without actually providing proof. Even with almighty Google on your side, I bet you're having a hard time finding what you're looking for.

This is just like a trial, the debate is innocent until PROVEN guilty (It DID NOT happen, unless there is PROOF that it DID). It is not my job, as the defense to prove innocence as much as it is your job to prove guilt. So unless the prosecution has something to back up its claims, this court is adjourned.

Also, it seems Smooth made the first move with a list of every deadly plane crash since 2001, only the 9/11 planes were the ones involved in terrorist attacks it seems....

I can see what Smooth was going for and why he used the bluntest method possible. Conspiracy theorists are only interested in semantics that can be twisted to "prove" their allegations true, so by using the most facetious example possible, Smooth did a fairly good, if not crude job of highlighting the fallacies under which Jar Axel was laboring.

I appreciate how the mods at Seibertron are still subject to the TOS themselves, unlike certain other boards I could mention *cough*2005*cough*"

Hey ... everyone. Please stop. The Philosopher's Forum is here to have rational discussions. One of the original rules of this forum was that if you can't control yourself in this forum, then you will be removed from it. The Philosopher's Forum is for intelligent discussion where both sides listen to each other and rationally discuss the topics at hand. Everyone can either abide by this or the forum will simply be removed. This isn't General Discussion. This is the "Philosopher's Forum". Please act in a mature fashion.

Due to how crazy this particular thread has gotten, I'm locking it to avoid further confrontation in this thread. If you guys want to start up a similar conversation in this forum without all of the craziness, please feel free to do so.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Ryan