The Energon Pub

by **Praxus Prime** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:10 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
And I can say with absolute certainty that the Empire controlled many times that

For far less a time, as can be derived by solid canon materials.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like 120 worlds would be a heck of a lot easier to maintain than the multitude that the Empire controlled. Even if it was for only about 25 years, pretty much the only reason it "fell" (if you just count the movies) was because of the Skywalkers, who were already "chosen" to bring order to the galaxy, so the strength of the Empire really wouldn't matter since that was destined to happen (Yes, I realize Luke wasn't "the chosen one", but he's obviously pretty darn significant to the Emperor's defeat.) Now if you take the Empire by itself, and that means no Luke Skywalker to blow up the first Death Star, become a jedi, and turn Vader back from the dark side, I'd say it probably never would've been overthrown.
Also, you can't just disregard every little thing that isn't in the movies, because there ARE some books and things that are considered canon, and the Empire was never officially disbanded in the movies, even if it was implied (All they did was blow up the Death Star II [along with the Emperor and Vader, but there's always somebody who can take over], and that didn't stop them the first time!)

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:52 am

Shadowman wrote:True: You can't. Saves me a helluva lot of time, too. None of your points matter if you refuse to take the EU into consideration.

Total nonsense.

More like you cant reply.

You said it yourself "third tier canon", thats just a Euphemism for quasi canon.

Its a way for SW fans to feel they havent wasted their time and money investing in these stories.

I repeat, if they can be dismissed on the whim of Lucas, they arent worth crap twards canon.

The Empire formed 19BBY...and never actually ended, and they never had less than a thousand worlds in their grasp. And that was AFTER they lost the Galactic Civil War.

As per the solid canon of the films, The empire was formed around the time the Skywarker twins were born, and fell when they were in their late 20's.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:57 am

Praxus Prime wrote:Maybe it's just me, but it seems like 120 worlds would be a heck of a lot easier to maintain than the multitude that the Empire controlled.

I never implied otherwise.

Also, you can't just disregard every little thing that isn't in the movies, because there ARE some books and things that are considered canon, and the Empire was never officially disbanded in the movies, even if it was implied (All they did was blow up the Death Star II [along with the Emperor and Vader, but there's always somebody who can take over], and that didn't stop them the first time!)

If Lucas can disregard it when ever he wants its not worth a thing to canon.

"Canon" in a fictional world refers to events that are "historically accurate" as it pertains to that fictional universe.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:38 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You said it yourself "third tier canon", thats just a Euphemism for quasi canon.

And that's why I'm not bothering with your posts on the matter anymore. You make it clear with every post you have no clue what you're talking about. C-Canon isn't the highest but that doesn't mean it's non-canon.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:05 pm

Shadowman wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:You said it yourself "third tier canon", thats just a Euphemism for quasi canon.

And that's why I'm not bothering with your posts on the matter anymore. You make it clear with every post you have no clue what you're talking about. C-Canon isn't the highest but that doesn't mean it's non-canon.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.Fact is your not bothering with my post because you cant formulate a logical response.

I'm a huge SW fan and loved, in particular, the Dark Horse comics.

But the simple fact is the BS canon scale thats used is worthless because Lucas can disregard it any time he wants.

That makes it worthless to official canon.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:13 pm

Not to mention that your own linked source proves you wrong.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Ca ... y_database

Canon and the Expanded Universe

This policy has been further refined and fleshed out over the years. The Star Wars website also details the role of canon, Expanded Universe (or "EU" sources), and how they fit into overall Star Wars continuity. Chris Cerasi stated,

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences."

Your argument has crashed and failed.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:26 pm

Problem: Everyone still takes the EU into consideration when dealing with Star Wars, even George Lucas. Hell, half the names and location in the prequel trilogy came from the EU.

Point is, no one cares that you don't think the EU counts in Star Wars discussion; it DOES. When you finally accept that, I'll be happy to begin debating this with you again.

Of course, chances are you'll act like I'm only saying this because I can't think of anything else. It's half true; I just don't WANT to waste the effort trying to debate with someone who doesn't even want to admit 99% of the franchise even occurred.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:36 pm

Shadowman wrote:Problem: Everyone still takes the EU into consideration when dealing with Star Wars, even George Lucas. Hell, half the names and location in the prequel trilogy came from the EU.

Point is, no one cares that you don't think the EU counts in Star Wars discussion; it DOES. When you finally accept that, I'll be happy to begin debating this with you again.

Of course, chances are you'll act like I'm only saying this because I can't think of anything else. It's half true; I just don't WANT to waste the effort trying to debate with someone who doesn't even want to admit 99% of the franchise even occurred.

It doesnt matter if you,many, or every other SW fan but me likes to include them.Thats a personal choice thats akin to personal canon.

I entered this debate refering to "absolute canon" as seen in the films, and you went on a rant siting info from comics and books as if they were regarded as the same canon-wise.

I repeat, your own linked source proves you wrong.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Ca ... y_database

Canon and the Expanded Universe

This policy has been further refined and fleshed out over the years. The Star Wars website also details the role of canon, Expanded Universe (or "EU" sources), and how they fit into overall Star Wars continuity. Chris Cerasi stated,

"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences."

That right there says that only the films are absolute canon.

So, either prove your point useing info that is absolute canon, or give me a logical reason why the books should be considered official canon and not personal canon.

Because so far, you havent come close to proving your case.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:50 pm

Just so you know, I didn't read that wall of text. It doesn't matter what you think, you can't walk into a discussion and say "Everything except all of this doesn't count, so don't bring it up."

You have no idea how canon or discussion on Star Wars works, you've already made that clear. So I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:05 pm

Shadowman wrote:Just so you know, I didn't read that wall of text. It doesn't matter what you think, you can't walk into a discussion and say "Everything except all of this doesn't count, so don't bring it up."

Your own source says only the film are "absolute canon".

You have no idea how canon or discussion on Star Wars works, you've already made that clear. So I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

I do, I've had these same debates on them.

And your not bothering to reply because you cant.

Man up and admit it.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:36 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And your not bothering to reply because you cant.

Man up and admit it.

I've got a lot of **** I need to do today, and I'm trying to keep "bang my head against a brick wall because sto_vo_kor has no clue what he's talking about" off the list. Claiming that I can't make a counter argument to try to goad me back into derailing this topic even further isn't helping.

You're not going to let it go, though, are you? You're going to keep pretending the only reason I don't want to deal with you is because I can't, ignoring each and every time I tell you I don't want to deal with you because you have no clue what you're talking about and refuse to admit it.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:45 pm

Shadowman wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And your not bothering to reply because you cant.

Man up and admit it.

I've got a lot of **** I need to do today, and I'm trying to keep "bang my head against a brick wall because sto_vo_kor has no clue what he's talking about" off the list. Claiming that I can't make a counter argument to try to goad me back into derailing this topic even further isn't helping.

You're not going to let it go, though, are you? You're going to keep pretending the only reason I don't want to deal with you is because I can't, ignoring each and every time I tell you I don't want to deal with you because you have no clue what you're talking about and refuse to admit it.

I'm trying to goad you????What do you call saying I have no clue over and over again??

Its obvious you cant reply so I will let this drop, but I will say this.

I'm not the one pretending anything.Lie to yourself if you must to make yourself feel better.

I started this by refering to "absolute canon as seen on film", you reply-ed by pointing to secondary sources.

You were wrong because I cited my criteria in my statement and your reply went off the critira set by my post.

So basically, it wasnt a reply at all.

Have a happy holiday.

P.S. When you can give me a logical argument to back up your claims I'm open.