The Energon Pub

Questions that needs answering:

I grew up in the 1980's when every fan could get their hands on all figures in the USA. There were no "Henkei exclusives" or "Takara imports" (at least not to any child's knowledge) Why now do these Japanese companies hold a monopoly on certain characters ??? (Thrust, Dirge, Red Alert, etc.) And why does Hasbro make excuses every time the fans ask about them using their molds to produce these characters in the USA ??? And why the ridiculous prices for something that can be molded at any time in any color ??? Lets face it guys, there not exactly antiques. I am aware that a 3rd party must pay for import costs plus re-ship them to you and still make some profit. But $90 a figure....I think they are taking advantage of collectors who dont have the will power to say no. So I want to hear from anyone living in Japan, how much in US dollars would I pay for a Henkei figure if I walked in a store and paid cash ??? In other words, no import fee, shipping costs, or 3rd party profits. What is the actual retail dollar value for one of these figures as a toy ??? I think everyone needs to know the truth before they decide to purchase. And we also need to know the truth from Hasbro on why they dont want to release these figures here for the fans that helped make Transformers what they are today.

Respectfully,

Rated X

(from Miami, Florida)

Normally, I'd comment for you. I would take the years and years of experience I've had in this hobby, my knowledge of imports, my direct conversations with Hasbro and the TFCC, and my BotCon experiences and distil it down into useful, easy to read information.

But there's no point. It wouldn't matter to you.

You have already made up your mind. You have an idea of what you want to know/hear/justify and anything else, even the truth, is going to be dismissed because it doesn't fit your idea.

I'm leaving this thread open in the interest to see if anyone else is willing to patiently explain the matter to you. I'm not being rude, but if you're honest about it, you know you just want people to be as upset as you are and to justify your own feelings on the matter.

Rated X wrote:Questions that needs answering:

I grew up in the 1980's when every fan could get their hands on all figures in the USA. There were no "Henkei exclusives" or "Takara imports" (at least not to any child's knowledge) Why now do these Japanese companies hold a monopoly on certain characters ??? (Thrust, Dirge, Red Alert, etc.) And why does Hasbro make excuses every time the fans ask about them using their molds to produce these characters in the USA ??? And why the ridiculous prices for something that can be molded at any time in any color ??? Lets face it guys, there not exactly antiques. I am aware that a 3rd party must pay for import costs plus re-ship them to you and still make some profit. But $90 a figure....I think they are taking advantage of collectors who dont have the will power to say no. So I want to hear from anyone living in Japan, how much in US dollars would I pay for a Henkei figure if I walked in a store and paid cash ??? In other words, no import fee, shipping costs, or 3rd party profits. What is the actual retail dollar value for one of these figures as a toy ??? I think everyone needs to know the truth before they decide to purchase. And we also need to know the truth from Hasbro on why they dont want to release these figures here for the fans that helped make Transformers what they are today.

Respectfully,

Rated X

(from Miami, Florida)

It can all be summed up with a simple matter of economics and market working, including local demand.

First and foremost: We keep saying it, but Hasbro is NOT as oriented to collectors as TakaraTomy is. Sorry for the bold, but it has to made clear.
In the US the overall toy collector to kids ratio is less than 1:10, and I'm being optimistic here. Hasbro tends mainly to the latter: kids and their parents, we as collectors play last fiddle. And like any other company, Hasbro wants to make a profit, and how does it do that? You guessed it.
We actually pose a slight risk financially because we're so few in number. Production runs are fewer and smaller, so the overall production costs are higher: look at the BotCon exclusives for example. No matter how much Hasbro caters to us fans: in the end it's all about profit. That doesn't mean we fans appreciate the nods though. Still, Hasbro is not risk-happy, especially in these times.
Japan has a far greater market of collectors, and companies take advantage of that, even TakaraTomy with the Labels and reissues (Henkei is still aimed at kids though). So it can afford more risks than Hasbro can.

The net result is that more "collector's items" come from Japan than the US. To bring them over, we have "middle men": companies that stock up on them for import into the US or anywhere else. That brings in additional costs, including:
- administration
- storage
- import fees
- transportation
That partially accounts the raise in price. I checked the original prices of some items, and some exclusives, based on scale, cost only 1.5 to 2 times more than a regular retail item. These middle-men are still companies however, and want to make profit. So they jack up the price with a "margin of profit", based on demand. It seems that the rarer the item, the higher the margin.
If you're asking "Why now and not back in the 80's?" One word: Internet.

So there you have it in a nut shell. o, one more thing:

It's not the fans that made Transformers, it's the kids buying them

P.S. If you're reading this, please reply.

Here's one more nugget, particularly about the BotCon seekers.

From Hasbro's perspective, the original Classics line was a relative failure, and Hasbro was effectively done. Fun Publications (the people who run BotCon, and remember, BotCon is *NOT* run by Hasbro!) did what they thought they could to try to get as the seekers "finished" for as many people as possible. They built the Games of Deception set. They do not have anywhere near Hasbro's resources to produce quantities that can appease all the fans. They produced what they could, and if you missed the boat, well, I hope you can swim (to torture the metaphor some more).

Do not, for one second, think Hasbro has any obligation to you or me or Counterpunch or anyone else except their shareholders. They do what they can for us, and I'm pretty pleased. Also, please remember that Hasbro and TakaraTomy are completely independent entities, that happen to share capital (like molds). Hasbro has precisely zero control of TakaraTomy, and vice versa.

But, I agree with CP that you've already made up your mind and this is going to fall on deaf ears. You've been beating this topic to death for months and you don't show any signs of an open mind. Sorry for the honesty, but it has to be said.

For a Henkei deluxe on the shelf, I pay the same as I would for a movie deluxe: just under 2000 yen. Which according to XE.com, is around 22 dollars. To give you a lifestyle comparison, a regular bottle of cola costs 150 yen, and a 16G iPod Nano costs around 14,000 yen. So no, the import companies are not actively gouging US customers, it's just that Japanese life IS that expensive. As for, say Electrodistrupter Ligier, I had to pay roughly 9000 yen for two of him. And even then I needed to buy TF Generations 2009 Vol.1 to send in a special order form, then had to get the figure COD three months later. TF Generations was 2000 yen. For an import store, to get the figure, package it nicely, send it abroad, pay wages and still cut a profit then yeah, 90 dolars sounds about right.

As for Hasbro not releasing the figures you happen to want in your locale, then...oh, what's the word...oh yes BAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW! Hasbro has both good and bad points with regards to what is released, but you do live in a country where the vast majority of TF merchandise, media and product is produced. Complaining because you're not getting everything that gets released in every country is a pretty spoilt attitude.

Diem wrote:For a Henkei deluxe on the shelf, I pay the same as I would for a movie deluxe: just under 2000 yen. Which according to XE.com, is around 22 dollars. To give you a lifestyle comparison, a regular bottle of cola costs 150 yen, and a 16G iPod Nano costs around 14,000 yen. So no, the import companies are not actively gouging US customers, it's just that Japanese life IS that expensive.

Thank you Diem.

Are we satisfied?

(I knew this, but I suppose it needed to come from someone in Japan.)

Diem wrote:For a Henkei deluxe on the shelf, I pay the same as I would for a movie deluxe: just under 2000 yen. Which according to XE.com, is around 22 dollars. To give you a lifestyle comparison, a regular bottle of cola costs 150 yen, and a 16G iPod Nano costs around 14,000 yen. So no, the import companies are not actively gouging US customers, it's just that Japanese life IS that expensive.

I would think that a lot of the reasoning behind the more expensive way of life is that most of the stuff you buy there is imported from somewhere else. Hawaii is the same way. So something in the in Japan's market has to be shipped to them (costing money) and then shipped to you (costing more money).

Also Japan and europe had their fair share of exlsusives in the 80's/early 90s: IE masterforce, breastforce, god masters, Dino force, rescue force, oblitorators, Actionmaster ELites.

Exclusives are there for people of thier region to feel like they are getting some thing designed for them.

Sadly japan is more of a colelctors market than Europe or America.

Hell come to the UK and then youll feel really boned as the last exclusive we got was in beast wars with repaints of Spittor/clawjaw as transmetals and a the rergular spittor being released as a maximal instead of a predacon

The same reason japanese exclusives dont get released in the US is the same as why Botcon exclusives dont get released in Asia, they are tailoured toa particular market.

I would have loved a games of deception set but as im in the UK I cant always afford to fly to the US to go to botcon. And Takara did not break their agreement with Hsbro when releasing thier seakers, they remolded them themselves to give thier clients the chance to get thier sets completed.

I know its a subject that still gets some people annoyed but if you want the product you pay the price you have to tog et it weither its on ebay through a dealer or direct. Yeah import duties and shipping suck, but if you want it live with it. everyone along the chain ahs to make money to live and certain economies are always going to be better or worse off (such as its more expensive to live in the UK or Japan than America). Every one has thier own benefits and problems just be glad you dont live in portugal, china, Korea oe mexico as thier transformer fans have been getting really bad treatment for years.

Since the subject is "Imports and their prices", can't get around the exchange rate. In 1984, $1 for 250 yen; now $1 to 89 yen. Just gotta pay more USD.

In respect to the seekers, the absolute only reason they are so expensive is because of their exclusivity to the Japanese market. And even then only Thundercracker is truly outrageous at around 100-110$ shipped from my recent research. SS is pretty cheap, Ramjet is cheap, and the two other exclusive characters are about 70-85 shipped.

Yes it is expensive, but if you have no alternative and the characters are big enough names to cause a big demand there is no option. I wasn't very happy when the original prices for them were put up on retailers though. BBTS i know claimed that the export companies in Japan were marking them up there, presumably in prediction of their demand.

Ebay prices no one can control, and while BBTS/TF Source/etc etc are all businesses looking to make a profit... historically they have been decent about only minor markup's on key figures they know people will want.

Just stinks that key figures are universally agreed upon for us collectors.

Rated X wrote:So I want to hear from anyone living in Japan, how much in US dollars would I pay for a Henkei figure if I walked in a store and paid cash?

There's really no secret as to what the Yen pricing of any given release is. Most of the time news stories here on Seibertron will list the original Yen price when a figure is announced. A little resarch and a currency convertor are all you need.

As to people in different parts of the world not getting everything, well tough. Here in the UK we don't even get everything Hasbro produce, with most lines petering out a couple of waves before the last figures (Energon, Cybertron, Classics, Animated, Universe 2.0) and some seeing only a handful released at all (Alternators, Titaniums) with an occaisional whole line failing to appear (Universe 1.0, Beast Wars 10th) and only some store exclusives being brought across by UK retailers (although this hasn't been as bad since Walmart bought out Asda a few years back and raised the bar somewhat in that area). Other parts of Europe have it even worse for distribution, and all this before taking into account that even when product does make it over here we're paying comparatively more for the exact same figures than in the US (Hasbro's primary market).

Imagine having to import some main line Hasbro releases (time finding the goods + potential third party mark up + shipping costs + import costs) before even thinking about Takara Tomy exclusives (or even main releases when paint differences make a difference) and you should see that you've got it good in the US. Plus nobody is forcing you to buy anything. True fact, there's not a single Transformers figure anywhere in the world that you actually need, toys as collectables being purely a luxury item.

Wow its amazing how one topic can cause so much of a Frenzy…LOL

First of all I want to thank everybody who took the time to reply to this topic cause I really expected to wake up and find 1 or 2 responses. I’m going to try to respond to everyone in one big comment because I do have a few things I gotta take care of. (I work nights)

First of all I want to thank Diem for letting me know the answer to my main question. I do understand now that Japan has a very high cost of living. And as I had believed, a walk in visit to a Japanese toy or hobby store can snag you a figure for a reasonable $22 dollars. Of course the trouble is getting there or becoming good friends with someone who lives there or travels often. I still feel that a jump from $22 to $80 (mail order) is pretty big but I cant knock someone else’s hustle. If someone is willing to pay the price the smaller companies will keep doing what they do and I really cant blame them.

But my problem isn’t really with the Japanese companies, its with Hasbro. Hasbro has the money to drop a fresh batch of paint in the mold every week and kids will buy them.

As quoted by JelZe GoldRabbit:

It's not the fans that made Transformers, it's the kids buying them

That is partially true, but the last time I checked kids were the biggest fans of all. The Michael Bay saga has every kid learning about the transformers history. We have already seen movie versions of Voyager Skywarp, Thundercracker, and Ramjet as well as a movie deluxe Thrust and Dirge coming soon. Kids are buying them right ??? Then they get hold of a classics Starscream and Ramjet from Hasbro and they are like “well where are his buddies” ??? Kids are not dumb. I seen a kid that’s probally 3 times younger than me transform Movie Voyager Mixmaster in less than a minute. It took me a week to figure how to get him back to a cement mixer. Laugh if you want, but kids are smart. They know the characters, and believe me they want them.


Quoted by: IceWilly

In respect to the seekers, the absolute only reason they are so expensive is because of their exclusivity to the Japanese market.

Obviously that is true my friend. But that is not the Japanese companies who are to blame for that. The blame goes exclusively to Hasbro. I say this because as stated by Razorclaw0000:

Also, please remember that Hasbro and TakaraTomy are completely independent entities, that happen to share capital (like molds). Hasbro has precisely zero control of TakaraTomy, and vice versa.


And with that being said, we know Hasbro has the right to pour any color paint into the mold they please. So then we all wonder, why don’t they ??? Even I know the answer to that one. Every puppet has somebody pulling it’s strings. I think somebody up top may be telling the consumers what they should want rather than asking them. And as in any other situation, they have personal interests in mind. Kind of like radio DJ’s who try to get you to jump on a bandwagon to what’s hot rather than playing your requests.

Also quoted by: Razorclaw0000

Do not, for one second, think Hasbro has any obligation to you or me or Counterpunch or anyone else except their shareholders.

So true my friend. However stakeholders only care about money. They will market a green turd if they think enough people will buy it. (HA Barricade) But stakeholders don’t talk to kids to find out what character they would most likely want to see in stores. They consult with so called “experts”. And who do you really think the so called “experts” are ??? I’m betting they are devoted Transformers fans likely in their 30’s or 40’s. Any you know a majority of the people in that category are collectors. And collectors are not going to give kids feedback. They are going to give collectors feedback.

That’s possibly the problem. Then we start getting into that mind set like “Well If everyone owned a deluxe Thundercracker then mine won’t be special anymore”. Maybe I’m not thinking like a true collector, but if I could snap my fingers and give every collector on earth what they wanted…YOURE WISHES WOULD ALL BE GRANTED.

I suppose that would make me a bad collector, but I am confident it makes me a good person. I like being happy and want others to share the feeling. Not a drop of greed in my blood…that’s just me.

I remember in my in my 20’s I used to DJ on 2 turntables as a hobby. I collected over 2000 hip hop, disco, and freestyle records and over half of them were rare “collectors items”. Back then there were no CD players that allowed you to manipulate the music like vinyl and of course no MP3 files. DJ’s used to fight over these “promo records” in the shop and would always go alone when looking for old school records in junk shops. Those were real “collectors items” cause once the record was out of print the mold was destroyed. Now all of that competition between DJ’s to get the last copy is over thanks to CD burners and MP3 files. Now a days DJ’s will be like “burn me a copy of that song man” or “what site did you download that from dude ?”

So I ask: “Hey Hasbro, pull out that old mold and hook me up with a copy of Dirge”

However, I don’t think the world of Transformer collectors has gotten over that “MINE, MINE, ALL MINE” mentality that DJ’s were forced to overcome when the internet came into popularity.


While on the topic of collectors, I should address Botcon. Kind of hard to do since it usually only comes to west coast or middle America. I mean c’mon guys….were one of the top 5 most popular vacation spots for celebrities along with Los Angeles, New York, Las Vegas, and Honolulu. Can Miami please have a Botcon ??? Maybe I might feel like balling and blow $ 500 on figures I want for a once in a lifetime experience. But the cost of having to travel to the west coast would leave an average income person like myself with little to spend on figures.


To conclude this article, I must say that I am an advocate to change for the system. I think one day Hasbro might just pull it off. (With a little help from Wal-Mart) They might actually listen to fans (collectors) as the movie market slows down and kids in general move on to newer fads. I know some might not want see change to protect their investment on certain figures. That’s cool. But remember the valuable lessons we learned from baseball cards and comic books. When too many “collectors” rob kids of something they love by turning it into an adult hobby, it eventually catches up. How many of you guys got a comic book or a rookie card that was once worth $100 and now is worth $10 ???

Believe me, if you keep inflating a balloon, it will eventually burst…


And I want to send a special thank you to Counterpunch. I told you this before, you have the coolest collection I have ever seen on the internet and I got nothing but respect for you. I know you have connections to Hasbro and Botcon that most users here could only dream of having. Needless to say if I had them, I would use them in accordance with my beliefs. I’m sure you have your reasons to disagree with me and I understand. I know you have more knowledge on Transformers than me. Maybe if I knew what you knew I wouldn’t be discussing this. Or maybe I would, simply out of passion. If you are ever in the Miami area feel free to send me a message so we can get together and have a few beers on me. I would be most interested in learning about the collector’s aspect of Transformers.


Respectfully,

Rated X


P.S.

Thanks to Mkall for teaching me how to use the topic section. All you guys do a great job on here and make this one of my favorite websites.

Well Rated X, I really appreciate how you wanted to understand the other side of the spectrum. It's hard to communicate and know each other, but I'm glad we have mutual understanding.

When it comes to Hasbro and Transformers... well there's always hope that you'll get what you want, but as of 2010, Hasbro is still in a consumers world.. and it's the kids and the teens who are going to consume more toys than us avid collectors.

Toys will always target the young. As I grow older, as you grow older, and as we all grow older, our interests for whichever era we grew up in will decline greatly. I'm an Armada advocate, and I'm guessing you're behind G1. Hasbro would rather cater to the new fan base than to the old fan base...

I know it sounds like I'm talking all negative. I know Hasbro has it's positives, but it's more fun to argue about it then simply agree with everything they do.

I'm more inclined to defend Hasbro, or at least to defend the designers. Classics and Universe were a giant love letter to the fans, and though I don't know if it's true I can easily imagine a designer banging his head on the desk while a meddling executive says "This Powerglide is good and all, but our research has shown that kids prefer grey." A lot of the designers probably were on our side of the fence before they got into the business, after all.

As for why Hasbro won't pop out the seekers, well that's a bad example due to Botcon-based legal fidgey-widgeiness. But there are a lot of factors involved in why Hasbro knocks out the particular number of repaints it does. There are a lot of kids who don't have the funds to buy the whole range and, given a choice between a repaint and a different mold would probably choose the latter. There are a lot of mums who say "Don't you already have that one?" There are a lot of fans with severe aversions to repaints, even if it's a character they like. And there are, I suspect, some stores that don't want to have thirty different-coloured planes on their shelf.

As for the executives not talking to kids, and talking to collectors, I'm not really sure I agree with that. I'm pretty sure Hasbro spends a lot of time doing focus testing with kids, and surveys with parents. Getting opinions from people like collectors who have a vested interest is never a good idea. It's like asking someone with a crush on you whether you look good today: the answer's gonna be pretty biased.

To be honest Rated X, I can't quite understand you. You seem to be accusing collectors of having a "mine mine mine" mentality which is somehow preventing Hasbro form making retail Thundercrackers, but your post seems to be talking about how you want a Thundercracker for yourself, and how you want Botcon to come to where you are.

Rated X wrote:Wow its amazing how one topic can cause so much of a Frenzy…LOL

First of all I want to thank everybody who took the time to reply to this topic cause I really expected to wake up and find 1 or 2 responses. I’m going to try to respond to everyone in one big comment because I do have a few things I gotta take care of. (I work nights)

First of all I want to thank Diem for letting me know the answer to my main question. I do understand now that Japan has a very high cost of living. And as I had believed, a walk in visit to a Japanese toy or hobby store can snag you a figure for a reasonable $22 dollars. Of course the trouble is getting there or becoming good friends with someone who lives there or travels often. I still feel that a jump from $22 to $80 (mail order) is pretty big but I cant knock someone else’s hustle. If someone is willing to pay the price the smaller companies will keep doing what they do and I really cant blame them.

Diem is saying that regular ole Henkei figures, NOT the exclusive figures, cost approximately $20 in Japan. These are the same Henkei figures that BBTS sells for $28 (or less). You're mixing apples and oranges.

Henkei =/= exclusive. Henkei are the regular releases of Classics in Japan. Gentai are the special edition figures in Japan.

History:
When the first movie was coming out, a hold over line was needed to put toys on the shelves until it hit. Classics was that line. It ended when the movie arrived and there were NO plans to bring it back. It was considered a concluded property by Hasbro (a mistake for sure).

As such, FunPublications requested the rights to "finish" the seekers via the 2007 BotCon set. Those toys exist not out of evil manipulation, but rather because both Hasbro and FunPub were trying to do collectors a solid by making the toys available somehow. 2007 is the only run of BotCon toys where they made a increase in production due to demand.

Classics came back, no surprise. However, the exclusive nature of the seeker toys was something that had to be upheld by the little entangling agreements between Hasbro and FunPub. Thus, those toys can't hit retail shelves because of 10+ years of legal history and business courtesy.

So, a compromise emerged that allowed for the seekers to be released to the Japanese market as exclusives. Thus, collectors got a second bite at the apple.

That's it, that's the story. Yes, legal and business agreements play into it. People have argued about this for going on three years now. It is, how it is. Wishing and hoping that it will be different is unlikely to do anything, but before making big statements about the evil companies or how collectors are greedy, we need to understand the basic facts of the matter.

Yea, where are you getting that a $22 figure is $80 here. Stop grouping exclusives with regular releases. We pay maybe $10-$15 more on average for a $22 figure because of shipping and a small profit margin. If you really feel the need to get a slight variation of a release here, then that's what you pay.

Making a big deal of an $80 exclusive and saying that it is still based on a $10 mold is just silly. In every form of product (from collectibles to cars), when they limit the run and make a small change, it always goes for more, even if the cost from the regular version hasn't changed a dime. It's simple supply and demand.

Plus thinking that Hasbro can simply churn out repaints to satisfy collectors is silly too. They have limited facilities and often do a run of one figure, then when done use the same space in the facility to make a different figure. They can't keep the molds and materials for that mold at the ready to satisfy a collectors demand. Plus in reality, Collectors (meaning adults who buy toys for themselves) make up maybe 20% of the market. Those collectors who buy every repaint make up maybe 5% of the market. No way would Hasbro want repaints of figures that most people have bought taking up shelf space for new figures that they want to sell.

Well all you guys got good points. The answer is if someone put a Thundercracker in my face for $ 100 would I buy it ??? YES

However, would I mail order it for $100 from some company that just wants it to be exclusive ??? NO


I think all these guys on you tube with homemade Dirge, Thrust, and The Rainmaker repaints are trying to tell everybody something. And their statement is alot bolder than this blog. Many of them are so talented the homemade repaints look better then Henkei. For Instance, what about that guy who custom built Masterpiece Thrust, Dirge, and Ramjet ??? He is freakin talented !!! Why doesn’t someone in Hasbro give him a job ???

I believe I got confused from Diems first post about the $22 price. So now I find out that there are regular issue Henkei figures and "exclusive" Henkei figures. Well that would explain why you can get a Henkei Skywarp for under $30 but Thundercracker costs $100. Needless to say I would love to talk to the "rocket scientist" at Henkei who made that decision. I would like to find out if he held some kind of online vote to decide which of the 3 original seekers was most and least wanted. If he did, who were the voters ??? Kids ?? Older collectors ??? Parents ??? A combination ??? Or did he just pull the decision out of his ass based on his own logic ???

So I must ask Diem if his statement about the grey Powerglide was based on inside knowledge or opinion on how Hasbro might have made the decision ???

How does Hasbro decide on colors ??? The big secret most of us are dying to find out…

Was the ugly grey Powerglide a marketing strategy to sell the Wal-Mart Red Powerglide to consumers who would end up buying both because the grey one was inferior ???

Or was it an apology for a corporate decision that was a screw up ???

Did they do a survey to see what colors kids would like ??? Or did they go with the opinion of an “expert” ???

I don’t think they conducted surveys because until the release of the Ultra-Class toy, no kid has seen Powerglide since 1986 unless they follow the history online. They average kid didn’t know Powerglide existed let alone he was red.

So how does the “expert” make his decisions ???

Examples:

HMMMMM…I think Cyclonus’s G1 color reminds me of a purple flower. Lets make him darker to look more threatening.”

“Every freakin Starscream is white and orange…lets make Animated Starscream lavender and red just to shock everyone and be different.”

“Human Alliance Barricade looks like s**t so lets make his arms and legs the color of s**t.”



I could be right and I could be wrong but I don’t even think the administrators on this site know what’s running through the “experts” minds. Do I understand corporate strategy ??? Not really. But just because somebody is wearing a suit and tie doesn’t mean they are an “expert” in anything. I think GEICO commercials are designed not just to make us laugh but remind us that C.E.O.’s of giant corporations can be morons too. And every time I see the gecko make a fool of his boss, I think of who might be running Hasbro and making decisions.


I’m not sure why any fan on here wouldn’t want to see a Botcon in Miami. But all I gotta say, come down here and I guarantee you will love it. Turn on any music channel for a hour and I guarantee you’re gonna see images of Miami in a music video, reality show, commercial, etc. Now count the images they show of your city. (No disrespect to anybody’s city just being honest)




I think sooner or later the inevitable will happen and we will see these molds come out to the public. Wal-Mart brought us Masterpiece Starscream and Skywarp. They sold out in days when they hit the shelves here in Miami. So how many of you see a Wal-Mart Masterpiece Thundercracker coming ??? I know I do.

I know some people who bought the Japanese versions kicked themselves in the ass when these came out. Then there are some collectors who state that the Japanese versions resemble a real F-15 rather then the G1 stripes and colored tailfins like the Wal-Mart versions. I respect that stance, but doesn’t the F-15 transform into an exact replica of a G1 robot ??? So why shouldn’t the F-15 have authentic G1 colors and markings ??? If I wanted a plain black F-15 I would just get some tape and a can of spray paint. I have never seen a black or blue F-15 in real life anyway. And in case somebody plans to throw up some picture from an air show, I’m not saying they don’t exist in real life, I’m just simply saying I have never seen one.

As far as the deluxe seekers are concerned, maybe we should just destroy all the molds. Then maybe everybody would be happy. I would be happy cause if I purchace an “exclusive” it will really be an exclusive for life. I wouldn’t have to worry about a bunch of loud mouths like Rated X giving Hasbro ideas that would put my figures value in jeopardy. For one moment don’t ever think that I don’t understand the opposite point of view and the reasoning behind it. I do. I just don’t agree. It’s like politics. Nobody ever agrees but everybody speaks their position. And we all heard the catch phrase “It’s time for a change”. Whether the change is wanted by everyone or not is left up to individual interpretation. But anytime in life something undergoes a change, it all starts with one man’s dream. Need I say more ???

Respectfully,

Rated X

So you thought we were just happily forking over $80.00+ for general release Henkei figures? I believe the term for the exclusive Japan releases in Gentei. I don't know if that name applies to all the Japan exclusives. Let's see there have been Wildrider, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Dirge, Thrust, Strafe, Electro Leiger, and Ghost Starscream off the top my head. It simply boils down to supply and demand. Gentei Thundercracker and Skywarp are from the same promotion, but Thundercracker generally cost more. Why? Because Skywarp is easier to come by. Sure he was a Target exclusive, but he did see a domestic retail release. Thundercracker on the other only saw a domestic release through the Botcon set. It's as simple as that. I don't think anyone on here wants to pay $80.00 for a deluxe figure. I would have loved to have walked into my local Wal-Mart and paid $12.00 for Ghost Starscream. To be honest paying $80.00 for him sucked, but sometimes you gotta pay to play.

I tend to cut Hasbro a lot of slack. I don't think they don't try hard or that they're idiots or antyhing. Whatever their reasoning is ... there is reason behind it. And from their perspective that reason makes sence.

When it comes to Japan-exclucive repaints that are better I cannot fathom why Hasbro's product is inferior. There's probably some kind of deal or reason, however.

And, for all the talk of how great Japan has it, we've had our own share of goodies as well. The old Mammoth Universe Nemesis Prime is a great example of such. And Classics Skywarp and Ultra Magnus are another (I actually prefer Classics Skywarp over Henkei Skywarp). And we've got the entire Animated line of TFs first.

Japan gets a lot of collector-oriented goodies. It'd be fantastic is Hasbro decided to make collector-oriented TFs. However, as I understand it, the Alternator line was a test of that and it didn't do so well. The market just might not be able to sustain it. TFs aren't like other toy lines; there's a lot of different parts to a TF.

But even just saying "target collectors" is tough. Collectors all want different things from a figure. Some want slavishly accurate G1 figures, others want reinterpretations, and still others want straight-out reissues of older figures. You can't win. You just can't.

I was hoping for a reply from someone in Australia. It was my understanding that they get raped as far as prices go compared to other parts of the world.

Rated X wrote:HMMMMM…I think Cyclonus’s G1 color reminds me of a purple flower. Lets make him darker to look more threatening.”

FWIW, I like the Hasbro Cyclonus much better than the Henkei one. Galvatron too.

Hasbro's Cyclonus really seems to reference the G1 toy for it's colors. So you see ... G1 purists can still be divided by toy accuracy and toon accuracy.

I bought both and I honestly think Hasbro got it right. Although Takara's Nightstick is superior in every way.

Rated X wrote:Well that would explain why you can get a Henkei Skywarp for under $30

No you can't.


Honestly, as a point of discussion here Rated X...you weren't aware that 'Henkei' figures were regular release figures in Japan. Perhaps that's a sign that you need a more firm basis for your arguments before any of us continue here.

That sounds harsher than it is. You have several people here giving you solid information. These things should be discussed, but if the intent is to get people riled up with outlandish statements, the thread is going to be closed.

As I said before, this is a 3 year old argument and there's not much room to debate the facts anymore.

There has not been a repeat of the seeker issue since. Everyone learned their lesson and moved on, Hasbro included.

Btw on a side note, I am not kicking myself in the shin for buying an MP Skyawrp over the Hasbro Skywarp. Both are how do we say it, different animals. MP Skywarp has a different face mold from the Hasbro version (which is just a repaint of Harbro Starscream)

And as for the prices? Well, as a collector, if you really want a certain item, then get it! Regardless of the price, that is if you have some disposable income if not, well just let it go............ same thing happened to me with Big Powered, didn't have enough money to get one, so it got a way.

Another thingyou have to contend with imports..........customs and the shipping fee plus the law of supply and demand.

Two members of seibertron who live in Japan, are well aware of the standard of living is uber high.............it just beggars the imagination how certain companies can whip up an expensive products and still make a profit.............yet they still continue to sell such products!(In fact,even the Japanese exclusive TF's are a bit on the cheap side when compared with the likes of Yamato,CMS and Bandai's Sentai products.) IIRC, a company called Half Eye has released the classic Getter Robot "perfect change" (as in it actually transforms into the 3 Getter machines just like in the anime and not like the SOC that comes in 3 individuals 'bots)in full resin/PVC costing like US $ 1,000.00!

The bottomline is..............collecting is a realy hazardous hobby.........to the wallet. And then there's e-bay to get your TF fix........

Okay guys, Counterpunch has requested I close this discussion thread so this will be my last post unless he gives me permission to say more on this topic. For the record it was Mkall who suggested I open this thread rather then derail the topic on the Encore cassettes forum as stated here:



Re: Toy Images of Transformers Encore 19 - Frenzy & Rumble (1027669)
Posted by Mkall on December 14th, 2009 @ 2:12am CST
Rated X wrote:I see we have someone who lives in Japan on the forum. I got a question...Are henkei and takara prices comparable to hasbro prices if you walk in a store and pay cash ???

Please don't derail threads with questions unrelated to the topic at hand. If you have a question such as this, please make a new topic.

Thanks



I want to thank Mkall for the opportunity to discuss this topic and get some answers I’ve wanted to know for a while. I hope in the future the board administrators will be on the same page as to what topics are okay to discuss and which topics are considered “taboo”. I will always comply with their requests.


So to conclude this thread I must make reference to this statement made by Counterpunch with all due respect:


As I said before, this is a 3 year old argument and there's not much room to debate the facts anymore.

There has not been a repeat of the seeker issue since. Everyone learned their lesson and moved on, Hasbro included.


If this is really a three year old argument, I must have not been the first to bring it up nor will I be the last. Someone will bring it up every time they pull the mold out the closet and give us one more. When the Starscream/Acid Storm wave came out wishful thinking made me believe the others were coming soon. When I read that they planned to discontinue the classics line to focus on Michael Bay creations, I did the research to see how much it would cost to complete the set with Japanese imports. When I saw the prices of course I got pissed.


My point is that unless they destroy the mold it means only one thing:

THEY PLAN TO USE IT AGAIN IN THE FUTURE

And if this happens, there will be another newcomer to this site just like me who will question anybody against mass production. I was never trying to be outlandish, just honest. If I got anybody got riled up, I apologize. I did not know people would be so sensitive about this topic. However, 230 views in less than 3 days speaks for itself. This is something people want to read about or they would not have even clicked on it.

I’m done, Hopefully in the future we will see these molds used again. They’re saving them for a reason, I hope. Thanks to everybody who participated in this discussion. And a special thanks to Counterpunch, Mkall and the rest of the Seibertron staff.


Respectfully,

Rated X

PEACE !!!