The Energon Pub

o.supreme wrote:I am first and foremost an original TF fan, but I very much enjoy BW. Still...I think people overestimate recognizability of BW among the general populace. I mean I think it is great BW are getting new toys, and I hope we get more. I also hope the movie next year does well and feels more like BB than any of the Bay Films. But if it still is a decent film, but flops based on lack of brand recognition, sadly, I would not be surprised.

Beast Wars was one of my favourite cartoons when I was a kid, but I do agree with the bit I've highlighted in bold here. You don't really hear 90's kids talk about Beast Wars as much, or in the same way, as they talk about stuff like Batman: The Animated Series, Hey Arnold!, The Powerpuff Girls or Goosebumps. That's not to say Beast Wars isn't popular, the five Beast Wars characters voted into the Transformers Hall of Fame and Optimus Primal winning the Power of the Primes fan vote are proof enough that there's a market for more Beast Wars toys, but as far as gerenal "Mum and Dad taking Little Johnny to the toy store" mass-appeal, probably not so much.
I'm not surprised that the G1 characters in Kingdom and Netflix are selling faster, from what I remember the Thrilling 30 Rhinox, Rattrap and Tankor weren't exactly great sellers. This is why I think almost every Beast Wars related thing we've gotten since the mid-2000's has been some sort of crossover with G1 (or in Rise of the Beasts' case the Baybots and/or Beebots), because a full Beast Wars revival probably wouldn't fare all that well on its own without household names like Bumblebee and Starscream propping it up. Personally I'm fine with this, Kingdom has really re-invigorated my once declining interest in Transformers, and I don't mind seeing Beast Wars characters being integrated into G1 or Movie inspired settings.

Munkky wrote:This is why I think almost every Beast Wars related thing we've gotten since the mid-2000's has been some sort of crossover with G1 (or in Rise of the Beasts' case the Baybots and/or Beebots), because a full Beast Wars revival probably wouldn't fare all that well on its own without household names like Bumblebee and Starscream propping it up.

The notable exceptions being the Beast Wars 10th Anniversary and Telemocha Series lines.

Beast wars was pretty much shown every bank holiday or blue moon in the UK so it's not surprising it wasnt as popular as other 90s shows that were every night/weekend with out fail. That and a lot of TF fans werent that interested in the new look at the time )though I definitely was and then for the show to make beastwars G0/G3 even better). Tha could be partially why it seems to not be selling as well over here compared to the eralier WFC stuff, that or stores have more stock this time around. Netflix stuff seems less stocked this time but we did get the stuff beofre the states in general and stores have been struggling to clear earlier netflix stuff (which might be down to the netflix show being mediocre??), overstocking or repacks of characters/figures that werent that great anyways.

Just to be clear, I absolutely love BW. It is my 3rd favorite TF animated series of all time (only behind the Original and Prime), and I want to see more BW toys next year. I want to see more non-show characters as well, or their BW II/Neo variants. I was just taken aback yesterday. While Wave 1 had a pretty even shelf warming of Megatron and Hotlink, Wave 2 had the obviously and extremely popular (so much so that I never saw one) Soundwave, as opposed to Optimus which I had seen a handful of times, as recently as a month ago.

I'm glad I dont bet, because I would have bet everything that the Primal/Rattrap would sell better than another unknown seeker. I was wrong.

o.supreme wrote:Just to be clear, I absolutely love BW. It is my 3rd favorite TF animated series of all time (only behind the Original and Prime), and I want to see more BW toys next year. I want to see more non-show characters as well, or their BW II/Neo variants. I was just taken aback yesterday. While Wave 1 had a pretty even shelf warming of Megatron and Hotlink, Wave 2 had the obviously and extremely popular (so much so that I never saw one) Soundwave, as opposed to Optimus which I had seen a handful of times, as recently as a month ago.

I'm glad I dont bet, because I would have bet everything that the Primal/Rattrap would sell better than another unknown seeker. I was wrong.

If they sell out in the end, then technically they will have sold as well.

o.supreme wrote:Just to be clear, I absolutely love BW. It is my 3rd favorite TF animated series of all time (only behind the Original and Prime), and I want to see more BW toys next year. I want to see more non-show characters as well, or their BW II/Neo variants. I was just taken aback yesterday. While Wave 1 had a pretty even shelf warming of Megatron and Hotlink, Wave 2 had the obviously and extremely popular (so much so that I never saw one) Soundwave, as opposed to Optimus which I had seen a handful of times, as recently as a month ago.

I'm glad I dont bet, because I would have bet everything that the Primal/Rattrap would sell better than another unknown seeker. I was wrong.

I think you may also be overlooking the obvious. Primal and Rattrap are both still available as regular releases that are not much different than the Netflix ones. Sure, sparkless seeker is a nobody they just created, but it is another seeker, it was always going to sell.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Just to be clear, I absolutely love BW. It is my 3rd favorite TF animated series of all time (only behind the Original and Prime), and I want to see more BW toys next year. I want to see more non-show characters as well, or their BW II/Neo variants. I was just taken aback yesterday. While Wave 1 had a pretty even shelf warming of Megatron and Hotlink, Wave 2 had the obviously and extremely popular (so much so that I never saw one) Soundwave, as opposed to Optimus which I had seen a handful of times, as recently as a month ago.

I'm glad I dont bet, because I would have bet everything that the Primal/Rattrap would sell better than another unknown seeker. I was wrong.

I think you may also be overlooking the obvious. Primal and Rattrap are both still available as regular releases that are not much different than the Netflix ones. Sure, sparkless seeker is a nobody they just created, but it is another seeker, it was always going to sell.

A very good point

I've purchased every single Netflix pack until now as I really have no need for the Primal/Rattrap pack. At least with the Prime pack, he had new Battlemasters. Both Megatron packs have exclusive extras. Primal/Rattrap is literally a minor redeco that goes unnoticed unless you are a big proponent of cartoon likeness.

I also think Beast Wars is a lot more popular among the common folk than most here think. I work in IT for a community college and just as many students and faculty have made comments about my Monke as they do my Trukk, as I've had the Throne of Primes Primal for a while

ZeroWolf wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I think you may also be overlooking the obvious. Primal and Rattrap are both still available as regular releases that are not much different than the Netflix ones. Sure, sparkless seeker is a nobody they just created, but it is another seeker, it was always going to sell.

A very good point

A similar situation existed in Siege with Hotlink & Megatron though. Megatron was also still available as a regular release (and a cell shaded 35th anniversary variant) so in some places you could actually see 3 of the same Megatron toy on the shelf for a brief time. However that did not make Hotlink sell any faster than Megatron. They BOTH shelf warmed quite a bit actually before finally disappearing.

Also, just another observation. Although Cheetor is the lone BW character in the deluxe wave 3, he seems to be the one that sells last. Sure that could also be due to the fact that many places also just restocked Kingdom wave 1, but just an observation. I took a picture a few weeks ago, but I went to another store yesterday that had both kingdom & netflix Cheetor, as well as the RED toy.

I know this isn't the RED thread, but those don't seem to be selling very well. They are one of the only lines well stocked and product doesn't seem to move at most walmarts I go to.

o.supreme wrote:Also, just another observation. Although Cheetor is the lone BW character in the deluxe wave 3, he seems to be the one that sells last. Sure that could also be due to the fact that many places also just restocked Kingdom wave 1, but just an observation. I took a picture a few weeks ago, but I went to another store yesterday that had both kingdom & netflix Cheetor, as well as the RED toy.

In my area, Kingdom deluxes were barely stocked and if I ever saw that Netflix deluxe wave at my local Walmarts, there was NEVER any Cheetors. I saw just ONE. So Cheetor was the one to sell out first.

o.supreme wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I think you may also be overlooking the obvious. Primal and Rattrap are both still available as regular releases that are not much different than the Netflix ones. Sure, sparkless seeker is a nobody they just created, but it is another seeker, it was always going to sell.

A very good point

A similar situation existed in Siege with Hotlink & Megatron though. Megatron was also still available as a regular release (and a cell shaded 35th anniversary variant) so in some places you could actually see 3 of the same Megatron toy on the shelf for a brief time. However that did not make Hotlink sell any faster than Megatron. They BOTH shelf warmed quite a bit actually before finally disappearing.

Also, just another observation. Although Cheetor is the lone BW character in the deluxe wave 3, he seems to be the one that sells last. Sure that could also be due to the fact that many places also just restocked Kingdom wave 1, but just an observation. I took a picture a few weeks ago, but I went to another store yesterday that had both kingdom & netflix Cheetor, as well as the RED toy.

I know this isn't the RED thread, but those don't seem to be selling very well. They are one of the only lines well stocked and product doesn't seem to move at most walmarts I go to.

In my area Hotlink went like hotcakes while Megatron hung around for a while. For the wave 3 deluxes, Rusticon is the last to sell in my area, I've only seen Cheetor once and it was this week. Expanding slightly off topic to Kingdom, I've seen plenty of Infernos right along side Dinobot, they are both moving pretty well in proportion to their case packing.

I think you are trying to project what you see in your area nationwide, and it just doesn't match up. I think you may have touched on a reason why in one of your previous comments; I think you probably do live close to a cluster of G1 fans that are affecting what you personally see in stores. Or even worse, a G1 scalper who is buying up all the stock of the G1 characters leaving the rest.

o.supreme wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:I think you may also be overlooking the obvious. Primal and Rattrap are both still available as regular releases that are not much different than the Netflix ones. Sure, sparkless seeker is a nobody they just created, but it is another seeker, it was always going to sell.

A very good point

A similar situation existed in Siege with Hotlink & Megatron though. Megatron was also still available as a regular release (and a cell shaded 35th anniversary variant) so in some places you could actually see 3 of the same Megatron toy on the shelf for a brief time. However that did not make Hotlink sell any faster than Megatron. They BOTH shelf warmed quite a bit actually before finally disappearing.

Also, just another observation. Although Cheetor is the lone BW character in the deluxe wave 3, he seems to be the one that sells last. Sure that could also be due to the fact that many places also just restocked Kingdom wave 1, but just an observation. I took a picture a few weeks ago, but I went to another store yesterday that had both kingdom & netflix Cheetor, as well as the RED toy.

I know this isn't the RED thread, but those don't seem to be selling very well. They are one of the only lines well stocked and product doesn't seem to move at most walmarts I go to.

Cheetor sells out quickest everywhere I go. The sparkles one and deepcover are sticking around though. Of course, wave 1 kingdom deluxes never made it to my walmarts so it's a major change thst explains it.
And I agree with what TFKev says, you do often project what you see nation wide or even continent wide, you shouldnt do that since distribution is not made equal and demographics are not the same everywhere.

Trying to predict what happens on a nationwide level from what happens in your local area is a fools errand, you can't extrapolate that kind of data. Now if you did a road trip across the whole country or orchestrated a research project getting every fan (and I mean every fan) to photograph their local store, as well as a little write up to provide context to restocks etc, then that would be a different story.

That is what I have been doing. My apologies for the misinterpretation, that's why I've started adding "My observation" to many of my posts. I realize I live in this weird bubble, and what happens in my area does not apply nation/continent/worldwide.

william-james88 wrote:since distribution is not made equal and demographics are not the same everywhere.

And THAT is the heart of the issue I am trying to bring to light. ON the upside however, I did finally see a Kingdom Inferno for the first time 2 days ago, so yay for that I guess. .

I do know that scalpers are an issue where I live as well. But I would find it hard to believe that I am the only one who suffers specifically from Scalpers that are targeting Original Transformers characters from the Generations line. But it would explain how I am able to find Rhinox and Dinobot so easily, but I only just saw Inferno 2 days ago, and have yet to see Galvatron.

Also, someone mentioned (I think it was Jelze), that they saw a solid pack of Core Dracodon on the pegs in TX. I'm more than willing to bet that it wasn't a solid case, but someone came in and just scalped all the Soundwaves.

o.supreme wrote:Also, someone mentioned (I think it was Jelze), that they saw a solid pack of Core Dracodon on the pegs in TX. I'm more than willing to bet that it wasn't a solid case, but someone came in and just scalped all the Soundwaves.

Very astute, I would think the same. And I wouldn't be so quick as to call it scalping, it's a new toy and one that some were looking forward to.

Glad you found inferno, my local walmart restocked yesterday and got more of those voyagers as well.

Given how well stocked Core Class has been, trying to flip Soundwave would be a short term play at best. Lower investment, but higher risk. If I was going to do Transformers arbitrage, it would be near the bottom of my priorities.

Some were probably purchased by kids/fans/collectors. However I'm inclined to believe it's a short play as well. If you can find something brand new and flip it quick before it hits full saturation, it can work. I don't collect core class, but I have yet to see wave 3 around me, I'm sure it will be around soon enough.

But to try and get this back on Topic (my fault, my apologies). I think we can all agree that the netflix line has basically come to an end. Several repaints of popular characters, and some unique takes. What are your favorites? Least favorites? Missed Opportunities?

I know by-and-large for most people they are going to say the Voyager Soundwave from the second wave is their favorite, and rightfully so (even though I don't own it).

For me personally however, I think nemesis Prime from the 2nd Spoiler pack is my favorite. It was a new mold for me since I never bought any Siege Primes, and came with a TON of extra accessories.

Deluxe wave 2 BB is going to be high on a LOT of people's lists as well.

For me, I still say in wave 3 the reissue of Optimus Primal was a missed opportunity. I know a lot of people talk about "show accuracy", but there are a lot of aspects of the Netflix line that are NOT a part of the show (the aforementioned extremely popular BB and Soundwaves for example).

Primal being the ONLY voyager not to come with 2 smaller toys makes it an eyesore to me. Smashdown was an extremely popular Battlemaster. Even though it wouldn't be featured in the show, I think packaging Primal with 2 Smashdown repaints would have been awesome, and instant buy to me for sure, and it would be my first Beast toy purchase.

The wave 1 Spoiler Box (Magnus), is pretty obviously the dud of this line, especially since it is still sitting available at clearance price in some online stores. The wave 3 Spoiler Box could have been better for sure. I do really like Skelivore, btu another megatron repaint, that was already in the same subline just felt lazy, even if it was to supposedly advance the plot. I mean there were better options.

I didn't get all the Netflix figures, and the ones I did I haven't opened any of them so far. The only mold I even handled was ER Prime, and I'm a fan. I plan on opening and displaying them all at once when my display case is ready. The 2 I'm looking forward to the most are Soundwave and Bumblebee. The least? I can't say, because I like them all otherwise I wouldn't have gotten them, but I think Wheeljack seems to be the most underwhelming.

As for missed opportunities, I can't really think of anything, all the prominent characters from the series received representation in the toy line. I do agree that Primal should have come with 2 battlemasters instead of Rattrap.

Scrapface is probably my fave out of the lot, Optimus prime just for sorting out the weird coloring/parts from the ER toy. Deepcovers pretty nice and could easily be Scout Clocker repaint or some one else (though I'm quite shocked in the size difference between him and spin out with not much being shouted out over sunstreaker being a 'Large' (aka regular) deluxed sized figure.

*totally forgot about Bee probaly because of the 50 bazillion versions of Bumblebee figures.

mirage would get a mention, just for being something different but i really dont like his alt mode.

Least favorites, Cheetor (his mold just sucks), Nemesis Prime due to Siege Prime and Soundwave (just because he realy needs upgrades to make him look good with thos hollow forearms. Ultra magnus might make it in there too or spoiler megs (which seems really pointless aprt from the fosilizer with him) -which really should be the voyager megs that was pointless but it had crosshairs targetmaster.

Pretty good line in all, biggest miss to me would have been an allicon repaint (over redalert, wheeljack, Quint drone) seeing as the deluxe didnt really get his fair share of uses. Maybe some of the show exclusives being selects/other exclusives seems kind of odd/out of place.

This line was very much a pick-and-choose line for me as well, but in my case I pretty much only bought Decepticon troop fillers and figures that could be repurposed as such. To be specific, I got Scrapface, Mirage (who I've repurposed as a fembot named Crash-test), Hotlink, Cheetor, Quint Drone Ironhide (who I use as both SG Ironhide and Stockade, as I rename all my SG guys), and I intend to get the Sparkless Seeker and call him Outbreak. All the other figures were basically worthless from my PoV, although I would probably grab the Battlemasters that came with the Leaders and other Voyagers if I could find them on their own for a decent price.

Basically, I'm the weirdo that found Wave 2 to be the worst one rather than the best, because all the figures were either re-releases/new releases of characters I already have that I wasn't buying again, or characters that they couldn't make me care about if they tried (Bee/Elita).

I got both Impactor and Elita-1 earlier this week. Impactor is pretty good, looks nice in both modes and fun to transform. I don't like Elita as much as Arcee or Mint Choc Chip Arcee Lifeline, the tan colour on her face and hands makes her look like a human in armour, and I do wish there had been some changes to the vehicle mode so it's not just a Red Arcee.

What my local Walmart looked like, lots of Sparkless Datsuns.

william-james88 wrote:What my local Walmart looked like, lots of Sparkless Datsuns.

Having known, I wouldn't have imported mine from Amazon.jp.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:What my local Walmart looked like, lots of Sparkless Datsuns.

Having known, I wouldn't have imported mine from Amazon.jp.

Hey everyone, raise your hand if you never made a bad toy decision due to FOMO.
(Anyone who takes the bait is a liar.)

AcademyofDrX wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

william-james88 wrote:What my local Walmart looked like, lots of Sparkless Datsuns.

Having known, I wouldn't have imported mine from Amazon.jp.

Hey everyone, raise your hand if you never made a bad toy decision due to FOMO.
(Anyone who takes the bait is a liar.)

Lol, I'm debating buying a Marvel Legends Winter Soldier for 2.5 times the price because of a Build a Figure piece. FOMO is real and suuuuuuucks! And it is 10 times worse with Transformers than Marvel Legends or GI Joe Classified.