The Energon Pub

The only Transformer that it could be said that Starscream is father to is Bruticus....and even thats in question.

Since the combined forms personalty of any of the teams is derived from all of the personalities of the team members its hard to say that he could be considered father to Bruticus since he did not created the different personalities that contribute to that of the combined form.

And in some the comics Bruticus exsisted as a combined form in Cybertrons past.But the comics follow a different history.

I'd right that off as an animation error and say Starscream did rebuild the junked vehicles as Transformers. He even says "I did not equip you with energy absorbers." If the personality chips (which look straingly like Energon cudes) magicaly rebuilt them how would Starscream have any controll over weather or not they were equipted with energy absorbers?

Saber Prime wrote:I'd right that off as an animation error and say Starscream did rebuild the junked vehicles as Transformers. He even says "I did not equip you with energy absorbers." If the personality chips (which look straingly like Energon cudes) magicaly rebuilt them how would Starscream have any controll over weather or not they were equipted with energy absorbers?

Yeah it could be a animation error.

It could be that the chip's have the ability to create new designs for them selfs ....its not like we havent seen that kind of thing in a TF show [just not in G1].The Transformers in Energon, Cybertron and the new movie all have a varition of that ability.

It could be that he placed the personality chips into some kind of devise he also stole from Cybertron that could recreate and repair junked bodies,this kind of devise could have been altered to leave out a few parts.... which at least in the G1 toon is more likely then anything else because we have been showen the personality chip of a Combaticon after this episode and it looked completly different but that too can be a animation error.

If this is the case then its no different then when a doctor gives a person a man made limb.And besides Starscream was never showen the smarts it would take to redesign a TF body from scrach.But he has been knowen to alter exsisting tech to suit his needs.

One way or the other the tital of "Father of the Combaticons" would be a hard sell when you factor in all the facts and possibilties in the case.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And besides Starscream was never showen the smarts it would take to redesign a TF body from scrach.

Starscream was a scientist along with Skyfire before he joined the Decepticons. He could be capable of doing any number of things that wasn't shown in the cartoon.

Just because they didn't show it, doesn't nessisarily mean he couldn't have done it.

The cartoon really never showed verry well how "inteligent" Starscream was. Other than this one episode with the Combaticons and the episode with Skyfire Starscream never appeared verry intelligent at all. He can't even figure out to kill Megatron while he's defeneceless in his alt mode.

I much prefer the A/E/C Starscream over G1.

Saber Prime wrote: Starscream was a scientist along with Skyfire before he joined the Decepticons. He could be capable of doing any number of things that wasn't shown in the cartoon.

"Scientist" dos not always inclued knowledge in engineering.For all we know he could have been a "Botanist" or a "Exo-biologist" both are also knowen as "Scientist".
And since both Starscream and Skyfire came to earth on a mission of "Exploration" it's moret likeley that he could have been a botanist or a exobiologist.

Saber Prime wrote:Just because they didn't show it, doesn't nessisarily mean he couldn't have done it.

And by the same standard's it "doesn't nessisarily mean he could have done it" ether.But like I said from what we've seen of the character its eazyer to come to the conclusion that Starscream never had the level of "intelligence" need to created Transformer life or even TF bodies.

If he had the smarts to get it done then why did he need Unicron to give him a new body in season 3???

If he knew how to design and build a TF body like you suggest he did for the Combaticons, then why didnt he just make himself a new body when he was in control of Cyclonus ["Starscream's Ghost"] or Scourge ["Ghost in the Machine"]

Saber Prime wrote:The cartoon really never showed verry well how "inteligent" Starscream was.

Maybe they did...Maybe he wasnt very "inteligent" at all in the first place.

Saber Prime wrote: Other than this one episode with the Combaticons and the episode with Skyfire Starscream never appeared verry intelligent at all. He can't even figure out to kill Megatron while he's defeneceless in his alt mode.

I dont see any real evidence of a high level of intelligence in ether of the episodes your talking about.

All they did in the episode "Fire in the Sky" was call him a "scientist and explorer" and in "Starscream's Brigade" all we know for sure is that he stold some personaltiy chips.

Saber Prime wrote:I much prefer the A/E/C Starscream over G1.

Ehh

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote: Starscream was a scientist along with Skyfire before he joined the Decepticons. He could be capable of doing any number of things that wasn't shown in the cartoon.

"Scientist" dos not always inclued knowledge in engineering.For all we know he could have been a "Botanist" or a "Exo-biologist" both are also knowen as "Scientist".
And since both Starscream and Skyfire came to earth on a mission of "Exploration" it's moret likeley that he could have been a botanist or a exobiologist.

Saber Prime wrote:Just because they didn't show it, doesn't nessisarily mean he couldn't have done it.

And by the same standard's it "doesn't nessisarily mean he could have done it" ether.But like I said from what we've seen of the character its eazyer to come to the conclusion that Starscream never had the level of "intelligence" need to created Transformer life or even TF bodies.

If he had the smarts to get it done then why did he need Unicron to give him a new body in season 3???

If he knew how to design and build a TF body like you suggest he did for the Combaticons, then why didnt he just make himself a new body when he was in control of Cyclonus ["Starscream's Ghost"] or Scourge ["Ghost in the Machine"]

Saber Prime wrote:The cartoon really never showed verry well how "inteligent" Starscream was.

Maybe they did...Maybe he wasnt very "inteligent" at all in the first place.

Saber Prime wrote: Other than this one episode with the Combaticons and the episode with Skyfire Starscream never appeared verry intelligent at all. He can't even figure out to kill Megatron while he's defeneceless in his alt mode.

I dont see any real evidence of a high level of intelligence in ether of the episodes your talking about.

All they did in the episode "Fire in the Sky" was call him a "scientist and explorer" and in "Starscream's Brigade" all we know for sure is that he stold some personaltiy chips.

Saber Prime wrote:I much prefer the A/E/C Starscream over G1.

Ehh

1. Just because they came here on an exsporation mission doesn't really mean anything. They did come with just the two of them to what at the time was an unknown planet. Both of them I would think would have at least a basic knowlage of repairs in case the other were to be injured on their mission.

2. You could allso ask why he didn't just possess some random seeker on Cybertron and just repaint them in his own colors. There were many other nameless seekers we see in the series Starscream could have taken possession of.

My guess on Unicron is that he made the deal hopeing Unicron would turn out to be a powerfull ally not because he couldn't do it himself.

3. We know more than that. We allso know he didn't equip them with energy absorbers. Starscream must be more intelligent than you're giving him credit for. Weather it was reprograming the chips to leave out parts or physically building them without parts he must have known some way of leaving out the energy absorbers.

You don't even see him tampering with the personality chips. All we actully see is he steals the chips and puts them in the junked vehicles. So as far as we see he didn't do a damn thing.

I for one belive the "Personality Chips" are Sparks (east Wars fan, useing BW termanoligy) and that the junked vehicles had to be modified before Starscream put the Sparks in. They only store the personality of the transformer, can't be tampered with to leave out parts, and do not store information on what the Transformer is supose to look like.

Basically if Starscream did or even could tamper with the personality chips to leave out the energy absorbers I think it would actully take a HIGHER level of intelligence than to simply build a body from scratch.

So basically if Starscream does not have the intelligence to build a body he allso would not have the intelligence to modify their sparks.

One way or another either the junked vehicles or the sparks themselfs were modified in some way.

Saber Prime wrote:1. Just because they came here on an exsporation mission doesn't really mean anything. They did come with just the two of them to what at the time was an unknown planet. Both of them I would think would have at least a basic knowlage of repairs in case the other were to be injured on their mission.

Starndard "away mission's" would only really reqiure that one of them to have any knowlage of repairs.Even on Star Trek they only send one medic on any away mission's and their team's have up to 7 memberse at times.

And since Skyfire was showen to be more "Scienctific mined" then Starscream I would guess that he fit that bill.

Saber Prime wrote:2. You could allso ask why he didn't just possess some random seeker on Cybertron and just repaint them in his own colors. There were many other nameless seekers we see in the series Starscream could have taken possession of.

We never saw any random seeker on Cybertron or earth after season 2.So its possible that there were not any left.

There were some random Shockwaves on the other hand.

Saber Prime wrote:My guess on Unicron is that he made the deal hopeing Unicron would turn out to be a powerfull ally not because he couldn't do it himself.

I dont see why you would think that.Starscream never showed forsight like that in all 3 seasons.He was never concerened with how his plans and actions would affect his long term future only his current plans.

Every time he had a ally in a plan he turned his back on them the second he got what he wanted or when it looked like he was losing.

He did it with DR.Ackivile, the Autobot Redaleart, Astrotrain & Blitswing, The Combaticon and he did it with Unicron and I'm sure thats what he had planed from the start.

Saber Prime wrote:3. We know more than that. We allso know he didn't equip them with energy absorbers. Starscream must be more intelligent than you're giving him credit for. Weather it was reprograming the chips to leave out parts or physically building them without parts he must have known some way of leaving out the energy absorbers.

You dont have to be very intelligent to leave out a Alternator or a Batterie when building a car.And leaving out any screw or wire could effect how a car's Batterie recharges itself.

And as I already said he could have placed the chips into something that allowed for the new bodies to be designed.

The Ark had that kind of TECH in it and that ship was 4 billions years old compaired to what was most likeliy avialble to Starscream to also steal from Cybertron while he was there.

This theroy fits what we were showen in the animation of the episode then trying to assume that Starscream was smart enough to buil the bodies himself because we've seen personaltiy chips in other episodes and they looked nothing like the ones Starscream put into the junk bodies.

Saber Prime wrote:You don't even see him tampering with the personality chips. All we actully see is he steals the chips and puts them in the junked vehicles. So as far as we see he didn't do a damn thing.

I never thought he did anything in the first place.

Saber Prime wrote:I for one belive the "Personality Chips" are Sparks (east Wars fan, useing BW termanoligy) and that the junked vehicles had to be modified before Starscream put the Sparks in.

Or as I said he could have put the "Spark's" into some devise that worked like the "Staces Pod's" and had scaners that could redesign a new body for the Sparl's."Beast Wars fan, useing BW termanoligy" too.

Saber Prime wrote:They only store the personality of the transformer, can't be tampered with to leave out parts, and do not store information on what the Transformer is supose to look like.

If Sparks cant store information on what the Transformer is supose to look like...then how to you explain how Primal, Pattrap, Cheator and Blackaracknia were reverted to their original beast modes at the begining of Beast Machines???

And if the Sparks can not be tampered with to leave out parts....then how do you explaine Megatron being able to change and alter the personalties of Waspernator,Silverbolt and Rinox in Beast Machines????

I would think that its eazyer to tampered with a Spark to leave out parts then to re-write its personaltiy.

Saber Prime wrote:Basically if Starscream did or even could tamper with the personality chips to leave out the energy absorbers I think it would actully take a HIGHER level of intelligence than to simply build a body from scratch.

So basically if Starscream does not have the intelligence to build a body he allso would not have the intelligence to modify their sparks..[/quote]

Like I said he could have also stolen something from Cybertron that could accomplish this task.That would also fit his method of operations.It does not take much intelligence to use something you stole.

Saber Prime wrote:One way or another either the junked vehicles or the sparks themselfs were modified in some way.

I agree but it does not meen that Starscream did those modifications with his own hands.

This is another thing beginning to bug me: People using the term "Spark" when they're referring to G1. They aren't sparks. There were no sparks until Beast Wars. You can't say "Well this character's spark in the G1 cartoon..." There ARE no sparks in the G1 cartoon. The personality components and laser cores are what was the equivalent to the spark in the G1 cartoon, though, if that's what you're trying to say, yes. It's just I see people doing the whole "Sparks in G1" thing a lot, when they didn't exist in mythos then. All Starscream did was grab soem personality components, and shove 'em in some vehciles, vehicles mutated, and Bob's your uncle.

Damolisher wrote:This is another thing beginning to bug me: People using the term "Spark" when they're referring to G1. They aren't sparks. There were no sparks until Beast Wars. You can't say "Well this character's spark in the G1 cartoon..." There ARE no sparks in the G1 cartoon. The personality components and laser cores are what was the equivalent to the spark in the G1 cartoon, though, if that's what you're trying to say, yes. It's just I see people doing the whole "Sparks in G1" thing a lot, when they didn't exist in mythos then. All Starscream did was grab soem personality components, and shove 'em in some vehciles, vehicles mutated, and Bob's your uncle.

Dont let the Spark thing bug you....in the long run its all the same thing.Call them cheeseburggers if you want

*Walks into McDonalds* can I have two sparks please, hold the Vector Sigma?

Damolisher wrote:*Walks into McDonalds* can I have two sparks please, hold the Vector Sigma?

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time thinking of something serious to contribute. I'm still trying to get the image of the conception out of my head. Come on, like the human method of reproduction isn't the first thing you thought of?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:He did it with DR.Ackivile, the Autobot Redaleart, Astrotrain & Blitswing, The Combaticon and he did it with Unicron and I'm sure thats what he had planed from the start.

This has nothing to do with the previous coversation I'm just have 2 random questions.

1. Why did you call him "Autobot Redalert"? His name is "Red Alert" it's two words and the faction is not included in the name. (I know they do that on toy packages for legal reasons but still annoys the hell out of me.)

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:If Sparks cant store information on what the Transformer is supose to look like...then how to you explain how Primal, Pattrap, Cheator and Blackaracknia were reverted to their original beast modes at the begining of Beast Machines???

And if the Sparks can not be tampered with to leave out parts....then how do you explaine Megatron being able to change and alter the personalties of Waspernator,Silverbolt and Rinox in Beast Machines????

I would think that its eazyer to tampered with a Spark to leave out parts then to re-write its personaltiy.

Wow, lots of typos... were you falling asleep at your key board when you wrote this? You're not normally this sloppy... this looks like I wrote it.

Anyway... Their bodies were downgraded back to their original forms. Has nothing to do with their sparks. You could take Rattrap's spark out and shouve it in Primal's body and he's not going to suddenly mutate into Rattrap. If the sparks held the information on apperance their bodies wouldn't be able to upgrade at all. BW Silverbolt and BM Silverbolt for example look nothing alike. If the spark held his apperance info BM Silverbolt would be the same as BW Silverbolt. The Vehicon generals would all be mutated to look like their BW forms.

He built thoughs bodies from scratch. All he did was screw with their personalitys and put the sparks into drone bodies. (If you notice all the drones look exactly like the generals who controll them)

BTW with stolen tech, you'd allso have to steal an instruction manual. It's easiy to figure out something you own/built but figureing out something you stole? That's harder.

Black Scorpion on City of Villains has a stolen suit of armor. He's tech origin and heads the tech devision of Arachnos. However he's a complete idiot. He has no idea how his armor even works and is in Gradville constantly surrounded by scientists who are applying upgrades and just generally trying to figure out how the suit works.

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:He did it with DR.Ackivile, the Autobot Redaleart, Astrotrain & Blitswing, The Combaticon and he did it with Unicron and I'm sure thats what he had planed from the start.

This has nothing to do with the previous coversation

Yes it does....I said that if Starscream could build new bodies from scrach then why did he need Unicron to do it for him.You said that maybe Screamer wanted Unicron as a powerfull ally and I said that it would not fit his way of thinking to want that because he always betrayed all hisother allys.

So again I ask you if he could build new bodies for others why didnt he do it for him self?

Saber Prime wrote:I'm just have 2 random questions.

1. Why did you call him "Autobot Redalert"? His name is "Red Alert" it's two words and the faction is not included in the name. (I know they do that on toy packages for legal reasons but still annoys the hell out of me.)

Wow, lots of typos... were you falling asleep at your key board when you wrote this? You're not normally this sloppy... this looks like I wrote it.

The pain meds are messing with my head.

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway... Their bodies were downgraded back to their original forms. Has nothing to do with their sparks.

If they downgraded back to their original forms then they should have revereted to their "Pre-Beast Wars" forms.The one's they had before ever getting to earth.

One way or the other ether their Sparks have the ability to retain information on their alt modes or the computer systems in their bodies do.

Saber Prime wrote:You could take Rattrap's spark out and shouve it in Primal's body and he's not going to suddenly mutate into Rattrap.

Maybe not right away ,but maybe over time ,maybe not at all....and maybe it would only happen if the new Spark was strong enough to force a mutation of some kind.

Remember whan Primal took the Spark of Optimus Prime into his own....he mutated right away and the same happened to Megatron.

Saber Prime wrote: If the sparks held the information on apperance their bodies wouldn't be able to upgrade at all. BW Silverbolt and BM Silverbolt for example look nothing alike. If the spark held his apperance info BM Silverbolt would be the same as BW Silverbolt. The Vehicon generals would all be mutated to look like their BW forms.

I dont see how you could come to the conclution that if the sparks held the information on apperance that they wouldn't be able to upgrade at all.

If you upgrade your pc with a new running program all of your personal files would still be stored on your pc...unless there was some mix up.

And besides Both of Silverbolts beast modes were at least in part a earth bird of prey.Both earths eagle and condor are in the same family of animals.

Saber Prime wrote:BTW with stolen tech, you'd allso have to steal an instruction manual. It's easiy to figure out something you own/built but figureing out something you stole? That's harder.

Not if you already had a understanding of the stolen tech.I dont have a DVD recorder for my tv but I'm willing to bet if I stold one I could figure out how to program it to record some tv show's.

You also have to remember Starscream did take the personalty chips from where Shockwave placed them after he removed the chips from their original bodies....its very possible that the device that Shockwave used to remove the chips was near by where the chips were stored.

Its also possible that the devise had very simple operating features.Even the scaner that Teletran 1 used to scan new bodies for all the TF's in the Ark worked all by itself with no one controling it.

Teletran 1 wasnt even working right at the time.

And like I said to you before Starscream has showen that he is capable of modifing the tech of others....but he has never been showen to be smart enough to create thing on his own.

Saber Prime wrote:Black Scorpion on City of Villains has a stolen suit of armor. He's tech origin and heads the tech devision of Arachnos. However he's a complete idiot. He has no idea how his armor even works and is in Gradville constantly surrounded by scientists who are applying upgrades and just generally trying to figure out how the suit works.

I dont see how this pretains to our debate but maybe I'm to sleepy.

But let me give you an exsample of how you can be smart enough to use someone else's tech but not be smart enough to create it your self.

In the episode "A Matter of Time" from Star Trek: The Next Generation the crew meets a guy who claims that he has come back in time from the 26th century [about 200 years in TNG's future] to study history.

It is later revealed that he is not a historian from the future, but rather a disgruntled inventor from the past - in particular 22nd century New Jersey.The guy had killed the time pod's real owner, a 26th-century historian, and planned to take 24th century items back to his own time where he would reverse engineer them and release them as his own inventions at a rate of one per year.

Data captured the guy and took him out of his time ship into the shuttlebay along with the stolen items, and the now empty time pod automatically jumps back to the time where it originated. The guy was then stranded in time left to the mercy of 24th-century justice with out a way back home because he didnt learn to re-create the time ship he only learned to use it.

The way I see it Starscream is about as smart as the guy from TNG episoed I just sited.He is smart enough to use someone else's tech and maybe modify some of it but not all of it.

Like I said if he could build TF bodies he would have had no need for Unicron.

And I'm sorry in advanced for any spelling issues.

You don't even need to look to sci-fi for an example of that, Sto. Consider the technology we're all surrounded by. I can use a television, but I couldn't build one from scratch.

But yeah, your point stands. If Screamer could actually make TF bodies himself, he wouldn't have needed Unicron. He could have just possessed someone, then built whatever body he wanted.

Sledge wrote:You don't even need to look to sci-fi for an example of that, Sto. Consider the technology we're all surrounded by. I can use a television, but I couldn't build one from scratch.

But yeah, your point stands. If Screamer could actually make TF bodies himself, he wouldn't have needed Unicron. He could have just possessed someone, then built whatever body he wanted.

Thank you very much.Sorry this comes so late.

Thanatos Prime wrote:

Sledge wrote:For my answer, please watch this video, and take note of what Optimus Prime says 44 seconds in. Thank you.

I think I'll take that as my response too...

You're not alone.

Can't see it...similar...but not his kid.Magnus..brother...Can't think,
but there's parents....?...interesting...

GremlinGrimlock wrote:Can't see it...similar...but not his kid.Magnus..brother...Can't think,
but there's parents....?...interesting...

Stop. Please. Just stop. Your posts can't be understood by anyone, so please stop.

Howdy,grim.....my messages,may be brief,but...some ......it's enough.
If yas go by cybertron bio,techs and how their species evolved....,
hotrod,by traits,vehicle type,..doesn't match optimus or elita...,possibility. Truck hauler,sports,recon,tactical machine.
Optimus has a scientific,medic background...was turned into a soldier
by choice. Elita...strong alpha female,medic?..and a fighter when
need be. Sports car trait,morph....is there,but the hauler,isn't.

So it's a possibility,in cybertron,that the original bio,techs.specs
are from other bits,only logical. Magnus,optimus.....similar in these
bits...brothers,or close. Elita,arcee,chromia.....similar in bits
as well.

Here's a possibility,cause if yas look at the series,comixs..
it leads to it. End bit,megatron would have many offspring...cause
the way he is,there isn't a single source or lady. These are visible.
Optimus,being... . is more selective and doesn't spread his specs,and
tech. All a matter of the above,I express things a certain way cause,
being a fan site,there's a common understanding. By no means,do
I mean to insult anyone,or give a problem to the fine folks here.
This is a paradise,and a possibility. Love yas,have a good one..
meaning brotherly or sisterly....normal.........mucho as grim.....

Some people have to much free time.

Wow, no doubt. Death by punctuation. Methinks the small padded cell is closing in....