The Energon Pub

Auto Bot wrote:Not all sexual activities is done in the way we are accustomed to.

Some varieties of sea creatures do it without physical contact. The female lay the eggs. The male swim by to spray the sperms over them. Something like that.

Who knows what sort of activities is involved in robotic sex?

Exactly.

Yeah, and uh, Tramp, which was written first? Marvel or Dreamwave? Thought so. Plus Dreamwave APPLIES TO DREAMWAVE'S WORK ONLY! What part of that do you struggle to understand? And in the cartoon, you just said, CREATED. Not born. They ever explicitly refer to birth in any medium, bar VERY easily misinterpretable quotes, however, it's never explicitly stated. And as I said, why would it not be referenced in the so-called "Ultimate Guide." wouldn't an "Ultimate Guide" cover ALL forms of how Transformers are created, hm?

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, and uh, Tramp, which was written first? Marvel or Dreamwave? Thought so. Plus Dreamwave APPLIES TO DREAMWAVE'S WORK ONLY! What part of that do you struggle to understand? And in the cartoon, you just said, CREATED. Not born. They ever explicitly refer to birth in any medium, bar VERY easily misinterpretable quotes, however, it's never explicitly stated. And as I said, why would it not be referenced in the so-called "Ultimate Guide." wouldn't an "Ultimate Guide" cover ALL forms of how Transformers are created, hm?

They don't need to specifically refer to birth. They do refer to families and familial relationships, as wel as courtship. It also doesn't necessarily matter what was written first, because things change over time as new information is intorduced. And, no, the Ultimate Guide wouldn't discuss all forms of how TFs are created. In fact, it didn't even go into any of them. It is a book about the history of the TFs, not their biology.

Tramp wrote:Secondly, you are ignoring the quote from MtMtE #8...

And you're ignoring this:

Counterpunch wrote:Because someone keeps bringing up MTMTE 8, I'm going to post some of what it says:

"It (the Matrix) is the source of all sparks, and also the place to which they return upon deactivation..."

Counterpunch wrote:

Tramp wrote:Secondly, you are ignoring the quote from MtMtE #8...

And you're ignoring this:

Counterpunch wrote:Because someone keeps bringing up MTMTE 8, I'm going to post some of what it says:

"It (the Matrix) is the source of all sparks, and also the place to which they return upon deactivation..."

This conversation is cross continuity, is it not? I can understand that being used as a counter argument, but I do agree that the G1 cartoon creates a bit of a hole with the Dinobots. Unless there's something that Wheeljack did that I'm not aware of.

Off that topic. This is the most convoluted thread I've seen since I started lurking here. It’s become less a discussion and more a circular argument. I can totally understand why someone would adamantly disagree with the topic… but can’t you just scroll past it to one of the other topics or forums? Or is it just fun to have an argument in which no one is actually going to change their minds?

Also- this is a thread about reproduction, correct? That does not necessarily mean sexual. And using two separate components of DNA is a mutual form of reproduction, but that does not necessarily mean sexual either. I believe earlier it was stated that the body could mechanically built and that sparks could be reproduced. That seems much more likely than a robot being able to be born or grow. That just seems too farfetched to me given how they all work, but that’s just my two cents. I still find that a transformer being a fembot or a mech is completely irrelevant, really.

I give up, obviously Tramp is the only one listening to me, and everyone hates him so much they'll go against anything he says.

juushinkan wrote:Off that topic. This is the most convoluted thread I've seen since I started lurking here. It’s become less a discussion and more a circular argument. I can totally understand why someone would adamantly disagree with the topic… but can’t you just scroll past it to one of the other topics or forums? Or is it just fun to have an argument in which no one is actually going to change their minds?

Here's the problem.

I and others have conceeded that Tramps theories are plausible. As in, they could happen if there were more background material to support them.

I don't think they're bad ideas. That's not the issue.

My argument is, and has been, that the existing canon structure of what we know about TF creation is simple: Martix/cloning/or undeterminable science (Wheeljack & Shockwave).

If Tramp would simply admit that his theories are possible instead of the certainty he is demanding that they be recognized as, then we're cool.

Hell, I actually think that RiD is tied into BW/BW2/BWNeo personally, but there is only trace evidence of that. It's my theory, it's not a supported position or viewpoint of the canon.

Whiner-tron wrote:I give up, obviously Tramp is the only one listening to me, and everyone hates him so much they'll go against anything he says.

Tramp isnt the only 1 listening, he's just the 1 whos here most of the time.

and you are right, this thread assumes (do you understand the meaning of this word Damolisher?) that Transformers are capable of some form of sexual reproduction!

It is about HOW they could, not IF they can!

ThunderThruster wrote:and you are right, this thread assumes (do you understand the meaning of this word Damolisher?) that Transformers are capable of some form of sexual reproduction!

It is about HOW they could, not IF they can!

Original post:

Hellbender wrote:What is your theory on how the Transformers create more Transformers? The Comics and shows have mentioned different ways, but tell us how you think it could be done.

In all fairness, there is no assumption made originally to if sexual reproduction is possible.

If it is, then all of Tramp's ideas are good and possible.

The fine point and point of contention, is that sexual reproduction is not possible.

Since the question is, 'How do you think it could be done?' no one should really be yelling at each other. The problem I see, is that the "sexual reproduction" argument has not just been explained, it has been argued as factual. That is why people are getting all pissy.

So, are we good and clear and happy now?

Counterpunch wrote:

ThunderThruster wrote:and you are right, this thread assumes (do you understand the meaning of this word Damolisher?) that Transformers are capable of some form of sexual reproduction!

It is about HOW they could, not IF they can!

Original post:

Hellbender wrote:What is your theory on how the Transformers create more Transformers? The Comics and shows have mentioned different ways, but tell us how you think it could be done.

In all fairness, there is no assumption made originally to if sexual reproduction is possible.

If it is, then all of Tramp's ideas are good and possible.

The fine point and point of contention, is that sexual reproduction is not possible.

Since the question is, 'How do you think it could be done?' no one should really be yelling at each other. The problem I see, is that the "sexual reproduction" argument has not just been explained, it has been argued as factual. That is why people are getting all pissy.

So, are we good and clear and happy now?

fair point, as the arguements are frequent, trying to keep track of whats been said can be tedious.

I'm sure i've never said that it is factual, as its been said there is evidence to support either side of this argument, but i do like to believe that it is possible!

Whiner-tron wrote:I give up, obviously Tramp is the only one listening to me, and everyone hates him so much they'll go against anything he says.

I'm listening to you. If for NO other reason than that your avatar makes me like you by itself. Because I can't stop staring at it. And giggling.

Counterpunch wrote:Here's the problem.

I and others have conceeded that Tramps theories are plausible. As in, they could happen if there were more background material to support them.

Ok, I can conceed to that. This entire thread is hypothetical, therefore anything in it is automatically a possibility. It's fun and all, but the five pages of 'YES IT CAN' 'NO IT CAN'T' got a little hard to watch.

As for the topic, I think that it's hard for some people to try to think outside of the flesh box. Everytime I see a fic that describes Transformers it makes me laugh, just because half of them have helmets that would clang together before their mouths would. XD I might just be plain old skeptical though. Not to mention off topic.

juushinkan wrote: Everytime I see a fic that describes Transformers it makes me laugh, just because half of them have helmets that would clang together before their mouths would. XD I might just be plain old skeptical though. Not to mention off topic.

Oh, the plug and play or energy field ones aren't that bad (the actually can work without clanking, but have you seen the ones that can't think outside the human box and have them get it on the human way (complete with robotified "human" equipment).

My current pet peeve are all the movie fanfics, those for the most part can't even think slightly inside the robot box, and need touchable holodrivers (*snort* yeah, I really believe in touchable pictures created by light) so the robots can have sex (preferably with a male human).

Counterpunch wrote:

juushinkan wrote:Off that topic. This is the most convoluted thread I've seen since I started lurking here. It’s become less a discussion and more a circular argument. I can totally understand why someone would adamantly disagree with the topic… but can’t you just scroll past it to one of the other topics or forums? Or is it just fun to have an argument in which no one is actually going to change their minds?

Here's the problem.

I and others have conceeded that Tramps theories are plausible. As in, they could happen if there were more background material to support them.

I don't think they're bad ideas. That's not the issue.

My argument is, and has been, that the existing canon structure of what we know about TF creation is simple: Martix/cloning/or undeterminable science (Wheeljack & Shockwave).

If Tramp would simply admit that his theories are possible instead of the certainty he is demanding that they be recognized as, then we're cool.

Hell, I actually think that RiD is tied into BW/BW2/BWNeo personally, but there is only trace evidence of that. It's my theory, it's not a supported position or viewpoint of the canon.

The thing is though that there is canon evidence to support it from multile continuites includeing both the US and Japanese G1 era cartoons and mangas, which inclues BW and BM, BW2 and Bw Neo, all the way up to Cybertron.

1. There is the fact that we have both male and female Transformers. This is universal throguhout all of TF canon save for the Marvel continuity. The Ultimate Guide also points out that Females were much more common in the distant past.
2. Male and female Cybertronians engage in activities that are strictly invclved in the choosing of a mate—flirting, courtship, romantic rivalry, marriage—they pair up and form pair bonds between males and females. This is evident in the US G1 cartoons, in the japanese cartoons and mangas (Victory), and in the BW-BM series in both US and Japan as well as in Cybertron.
3. They have families. Rat Trap's Great aunt is Arcee, so he says, Wheelie is a child, and the Dinoforce are all fathers of small children (Victory manga).
4. MtMtE specifically states that the use of protoforms is not the only possible method of creating new Cybertroninas, that other potential methods exist.

All of these pieces come from various canon sources across TF lore from both sides of the Pacific, and all support the possibility of TFs being sexually reproductive.

Tramp wrote:The thing is though that there [b]is[b] canon evidence to support...

This is why you and your opinions are not respected.

Enjoy your opinion, it's all that you seem to be open to.

(Anyone who does not see argumentative fallicy in this poster's reference to a joke that Rattrap made in one episode that was intended to garner a laugh and a fan-wank, deserves to be misled.)

You are no longer worth discussing the matter with.

Thank you for ruining what might have been an otherwise productive discussion.

Whether or not Rat Trap's sttement was meant as a joke or not is up for debate, but it is the rest of the evidence which is more concrete. Those weren't jokes. Those happened.

But those examples only support the plausibility of the idea. They're in no way conclusive.

This thread is about suggesting.


Stop forcing crap down each others throat and behave.


Read the rules clearly stated in this forum.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

No one is entitled to force their opinion on everyone else.



I do not effin care what's canon. That's not what this thread is about.


If you don't like the topic, don't post in the thread.
You post count does not make you cool. You opinion and forcefullness does not make you cool.


In fact, you are uncool.



If someone wants to talk about tfs having sex, let them.
You are not Hitler, so stop acting like it.

EDIT:- That's aimed more at people derailing the thread.


You don't need evidence to back up your suggestion though.

Leonardo wrote:But those examples only support the plausibility of the idea. They're in no way conclusive.

I never said they were. I have always said that they support the possibility, not conclusive proof.

Tramp wrote:

Leonardo wrote:But those examples only support the plausibility of the idea. They're in no way conclusive.

I never said they were. I have always said that they support the possibility, not conclusive proof.

See, now we're 100% cool.

Seriously, though and perhaps you didn't intend to, but everything I was reading from you was that you were saying these things were conclusive evidence.

If that was not the case, then I apologize for hounding you.

Game on!

Proceed with whatever Robo-Sex theories are necessary.

Counterpunch wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Leonardo wrote:But those examples only support the plausibility of the idea. They're in no way conclusive.

I never said they were. I have always said that they support the possibility, not conclusive proof.

See, now we're 100% cool.

Seriously, though and perhaps you didn't intend to, but everything I was reading from you was that you were saying these things were conclusive evidence.

If that was not the case, then I apologize for hounding you.

Game on!

Proceed with whatever Robo-Sex theories are necessary.

hehehehe robosex




Yeah, I have nothing of real relevance to contribute. I'm not quite imaginative enough.


So, errr, I'll just leave now.





















Bye.

Counterpunch wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Leonardo wrote:But those examples only support the plausibility of the idea. They're in no way conclusive.

I never said they were. I have always said that they support the possibility, not conclusive proof.

See, now we're 100% cool.

Seriously, though and perhaps you didn't intend to, but everything I was reading from you was that you were saying these things were conclusive evidence.

If that was not the case, then I apologize for hounding you.

Game on!

Proceed with whatever Robo-Sex theories are necessary.

No probelm. If you read my posts though, you will always notice I did use the word "possible" and "capable" because we never see them actually engaged in the act. for obvious reasons.

Sarri wrote:

juushinkan wrote: Everytime I see a fic that describes Transformers it makes me laugh, just because half of them have helmets that would clang together before their mouths would. XD I might just be plain old skeptical though. Not to mention off topic.

Oh, the plug and play or energy field ones aren't that bad (the actually can work without clanking, but have you seen the ones that can't think outside the human box and have them get it on the human way (complete with robotified "human" equipment).

My current pet peeve are all the movie fanfics, those for the most part can't even think slightly inside the robot box, and need touchable holodrivers (*snort* yeah, I really believe in touchable pictures created by light) so the robots can have sex (preferably with a male human).

I have not seen such a thing. You can't make me!

Finaly, a litle civilised debate.
And I thank thouse who got this thread under controle.

juushinkan wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Tramp wrote:Secondly, you are ignoring the quote from MtMtE #8...

And you're ignoring this:

Counterpunch wrote:Because someone keeps bringing up MTMTE 8, I'm going to post some of what it says:

"It (the Matrix) is the source of all sparks, and also the place to which they return upon deactivation..."

I believe earlier it was stated that the body could mechanically built and that sparks could be reproduced. That seems much more likely than a robot being able to be born or grow. That just seems too farfetched to me given how they all work, but that’s just my two cents. I still find that a transformer being a fembot or a mech is completely irrelevant, really.

I like it. I'm going with this one.