The Energon Pub

Counterpunch wrote:

Whiner-tron wrote:The “gene” theory is sound. DNA is nothing more than a biological blue print and the equivalent of that would HAVE to be in a Transformer’s self repair systems, or else an arm would grow where a leg used to be. I think that these same nano-bots could combine and create a new Transformer, a combination of the donor robots, or parents.

Ok, here's the thing...all of this is plausable.

I acknowleged this with my earlier posting.

However, none of it is canonical. That being said, it's still plausable. The crux of the issue, is that in no credible media is this theory supported or reinforced.

What we do know about TF life, is that it originates at the Spark. Sparks are a part of the Matrix, Primus, Vector Sigma, and/or the AllSpark depending on the series. While TFs could replicate organisms which are similar to themselves, without this higher devine presence, their is nothing to grant the 'Spark of life' to the creation. It would not be a Transformer in the same way that a Spark endued robot is a Transformer.

Actually, there are a few, most of which have already been mentioned, such as More than Meets the Eye #8 mentioning other untapped potential for creating new life that doesn't require protoforms, and repeatedly referencing specific abilities inherent with certain Transformers being hardwired into their genetic codes, as well as the last issue of the manga version of Victory showing small TF children, namely, the children of the Dino Force. Both of these are credible canon sources.
I just went back to the bookstore to do some research from the Ultimate Guide and it confirmed, at least through Beast Wars, that yes, TFs are indeed made up of nanomachines, as stated in this passage (bolded sections for emphasis):

During the orbital dogfight, the Axalon ejects its cargo of stasis pods as aprecautionary measure. The shielded metal stasis pods contain Maximal protoforms (masses of gray, shapeless gell filled with replicating nanomahinery) and their sparks (the sentient aspect of the Maximal itself). On arrival in a new environment, the pods computer scans for compatible life-forms, reformatting the occupant accordingly. However, the Maximal chip can be overridden, making the protoform believe it is a Predicon.—Transformers: The Ultimate Guide Updated Edition, page 80

MtMtE also mentions stasis pods being used to keep TFs in a form of "suspended animation for long space flights or even imprisoning criminals. Apparently, they work by separating the spark from the body, keeping it in a separate containment field, within the pod and reverting the body back to a protoform state.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if any Lithones escaped the destruction of their planet?

Hmm.. as a secondary question, since in this thread it is assumed that a Tf can reproduce sexually, how does the male Tf know when the female Tf is attracted to him? I know with animals and possibly people, pheromones are used, but what of a Tf? Does he/she have to rely solely on body language (flrting, a smile) or is there a pheromone equivelant? Or does a male Tf just suddenly say to a female Tf "I love you, lets get married?" and thats it?

I wouldn't doubt that TFs have some form of pheremones too. IF Ratchet's statement about Sam's pheremone levels from the movie is any indication, TFs seem to know an awful lot about that sort of thing, and I don't think all of that knowledge came from the internet. Thus, I would hazzard to say that they simply fall in love and go through typical courtship. Going by the cartoon for a moment, before Prime and Elita-1 were rebuilt into their current forms, by Alpha Trion, they were already boyfriend and girlfriend (Orion Pax and Ariel). So being specially built for one another doesn'r seem to make any sense to me. It's just a matter of boy meets girl, etc...

Did you even read what Cyber Bishop wrote?

Ok?I think he is just descusiing or puting his 2 bits in.

No, that's what he does. Someone says their piece, and he "analyses" it. (Read: weighs it up against his argument without fact. And also, totally, totally ignores the fact that everyone else has told him his Japanese manga isn't canon, and the MTMTE only applies to Dreamwave's continuity,. but I've already stated all of this before, and it hasn't stopped him from going on and on before so all it's gonna do is cause another 30 pages.)

And Tramp, just stop, please. Bishop told you to stop doing that, and for me to stop getting riled up. Show the hombre respect by doing what he asked.

Given the restraint Damolisher is showing and the complet disregard for a polite request Tramp is showing, I'm sideing with Damolisher on this one

All you're going to do, Tramp, is get this topic locked, and I don't want to see that; please stop.

As AUTOBOT STITH said, I was just adding information to answer questions brought up. nothing more.

No, you were doing it again. You ignored facts you've been given by more knowledgable members about your books not being part of the wider canon in the case of the MTMTE books, or not being official canon such as the manga. That's why I get angry, you ignore what you're told by more knowledgable members. Now you've been asked to stop, so please stop ignoring and/or arguing with new information you've given. Thank you, now let's get on with the discussion.

As I said, the thing with Quickswitch, I see him as being a second version of Sixshot, and his design is based on Sixshot's schematic.

Damolisher wrote:As I said, the thing with Quickswitch, I see him as being a second version of Sixshot, and his design is based on Sixshot's schematic.

I suppose that's possible. However, there has been no actual confirmation that the two are related.

I din't ignore any facts, I was simply adding information. Please, let's not argue about his. Truce. OK?

optronix91 wrote:

Damolisher wrote:As I said, the thing with Quickswitch, I see him as being a second version of Sixshot, and his design is based on Sixshot's schematic.

I suppose that's possible. However, there has been no actual confirmation that the two are related.

Commercial for the toys. I know it's non-canon, but it still refers to Quickswitch as "Sixshot's Son." and I'm just adding how I feel it's possible.

Because someone keeps bringing up MTMTE 8, I'm going to post some of what it says:

From More than Meets the Eye Volume 8
"When a protoform is successfully imbued with enough energy to allow the formation process to begin (either by the matrix itself or through other means), spark energy coalesces and enters the new body."

*Note that the book makes no comparison at all to DNA

"The Matrix is also the most effective source of new sparks - making it the fountain of Transformers life."

"It (the Matrix) is the source of all sparks, and also the place to which they return upon deactivation..."

Yep. It does say all of those things. The areas where it talks about genetic code is in other sections of the book including Shockwave's Experimants under Triple Changers on page 49, and Size and Mass Change under Mass Conversion on page 50.
here are two excerpts from the two passages in question where genetics are mentioned:

(from Triple Changers)Wondering what the criteria were, Shockwave realized that there must be a hardwired genetic component predisposing certain Cybertronians to more easily acclimate to alteration and improovement.

(from Mass Conversion) Mass conversion is the more complex of the two methods, and it represents a significant genetic difference in those who posess it.

IF you read further down to the bottom of the section on Protoforms on page 15, it reads,

It is believed that Cybertronians have other untapped potential for creating new life, but it is unclear what missing components are necessary to complete this system.

Those are the references to a DNA analog, and alternate methods of creating new life, in the book. I hope that helps.

Hold on, dude, notice it says "Missing", as in "Not there."

Damolisher wrote:Hold on, dude, notice it says "Missing", as in "Not there."

Yes, I did. and yes, the book does say that. Based upon the information gathered from Arcee's bios in both MtMtE #1 and the Ultimate Guide (page 25), as well as the information on the Quintessans (page 52), and the Well of the Allsparks (page 10), on top of the story arc in the ongoing DW series, the "missing" component appears to be females—all of whom had apparently all been taken and enslaved by the Quintessans millions of years ago after the latter had been driven off following a second attempt to colonize Cybertron some time after the events of War Within (There are a few females who make appearances throughout the comic). At least that is the deduction I made after reading them all, because, although there are a number of females during War Within, Arcee is currently the only one in modern times except those in servitude to the Quintessans, and apparently, she was also sent in as a mole by them as well. On top of that, her UG bio states that her being female is tied to the timelost origins of the Transformers, which indicates that at one time, females were plentiful, and now they are almost unheard of.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if any Lithones escaped the destruction of their planet?

Hmm.. as a secondary question, since in this thread it is assumed that a Tf can reproduce sexually, how does the male Tf know when the female Tf is attracted to him? I know with animals and possibly people, pheromones are used, but what of a Tf? Does he/she have to rely solely on body language (flrting, a smile) or is there a pheromone equivelant? Or does a male Tf just suddenly say to a female Tf "I love you, lets get married?" and thats it?

Probably some circuits inside them will beep. And then they have to plug in to each other (via USB?) to see if their circuits are compatible.

Auto Bot wrote:

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if any Lithones escaped the destruction of their planet?

Hmm.. as a secondary question, since in this thread it is assumed that a Tf can reproduce sexually, how does the male Tf know when the female Tf is attracted to him? I know with animals and possibly people, pheromones are used, but what of a Tf? Does he/she have to rely solely on body language (flrting, a smile) or is there a pheromone equivelant? Or does a male Tf just suddenly say to a female Tf "I love you, lets get married?" and thats it?

Probably some circuits inside them will beep. And then they have to plug in to each other (via USB?) to see if their circuits are compatible.

USB, Auto Bot? ROFLMAO!
According to his own words, Kranix was the last survivor of Lithone. However, it should be noted that Wreckgar's consort, Nancy, has at least the head of a Lithone.

Then again they are junkions so don't read into that too much. There are Lithones in some of the Japanese series though. Maybe he did believe he was the last and wasn't.

Alright if we're bringing up the indication for Marriage, do Transformers marry? Or is it just a life mate situation much like well Swans? I always assumed that, much like Humans, they just grew attractive of each other, that there really wasn't any need to test for compatablity. Then again Autobots and apparently Decepticons don't seem to like linking together as shown in Scramble city. so what would happen if a D-con and an A-bot actually were attracted to one another?

If the manga version of Victory is anything to go by, then yes, they marry. Deathsaurus has a wife names Esmeryl. She's the femme in the pic I posted earlier with the Dino Force's children. Nancy has been described alternatively as Wreckgar's wife or consort. Given their ages, I would surmise that Ironhide and Chromia are also husband and wife. I used the term "lifemate" in the bio card I did for my custom Chromia model simply to make it sound less "Earthly". Then again, I also made Ironhide and Chromia Moonracer's parents based upon how Chromia acted towards Moonracer in The Search for Alpha Trion by being so protective and then scolding her once the danger was past, just like an overprotective mother would her wayward child.

Japanese tends to treat robots in a more human behavior. Making them acquire every human traits and emotions. Such as the necessity to have an opposite sex partner, intimacy, and the mutual feelings bond. Probably, that's why there's allusion to marriage, partners, and the likes.

It's sort of built in to Asians mentality. Everything more personal. Every schmuck in your circle of friends is an uncle, or auntie.

Americans and Western nations tends to be more professional and impersonal. As reflected in US series of Transformers. It's all comrade relationships. Every bot is a soldier. Every bot (almost) is a male image. It's all the struggle for a mission or an idea. No room for personal match-making issues.


Agree or disagree?

Raise your right foot!

Auto Bot wrote:Japanese tends to treat robots in a more human behavior. Making them acquire every human traits and emotions. Such as the necessity to have an opposite sex partner, intimacy, and the mutual feelings bond. Probably, that's why there's allusion to marriage, partners, and the likes.

It's sort of built in to Asians mentality. Everything more personal. Every schmuck in your circle of friends is an uncle, or auntie.

Americans and Western nations tends to be more professional and impersonal. As reflected in US series of Transformers. It's all comrade relationships. Every bot is a soldier. Every bot (almost) is a male image. It's all the struggle for a mission or an idea. No room for personal match-making issues.


Agree or disagree?

Raise your right foot!

I have to disagree to a point. Both countries like their romance. Remember, We were the ones to introduce female Trasformers and romance between the males and females into the mix with War Dawn and The Search for Alpha Trion, and further pushed it with the romantic rivalry between Hot Rod and Springer over Arcee. This, of course was to try and bring the female audience. The Japanese simply took it a step further and the trend has continued on both sides of the Pacific through Beast Wars and beyond. The one key difference is they tend to be a bit more chauvanistic about it with the females being weaker and more submissive in many cases, though not all. They also love the pathos and soap-opera elements more than we do. This is true of both boys and girls, whereas here, the romance is less soap opera. IT's there, but it's just another small part of the story, a little more subdued, and less in-your-face. There's less pathos.

Tramp wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Japanese tends to treat robots in a more human behavior. Making them acquire every human traits and emotions. Such as the necessity to have an opposite sex partner, intimacy, and the mutual feelings bond. Probably, that's why there's allusion to marriage, partners, and the likes.

It's sort of built in to Asians mentality. Everything more personal. Every schmuck in your circle of friends is an uncle, or auntie.

Americans and Western nations tends to be more professional and impersonal. As reflected in US series of Transformers. It's all comrade relationships. Every bot is a soldier. Every bot (almost) is a male image. It's all the struggle for a mission or an idea. No room for personal match-making issues.


Agree or disagree?

Raise your right foot!

I have to disagree to a point. Both countries like their romance. Remember, We were the ones to introduce female Trasformers and romance between the males and females into the mix with War Dawn and The Search for Alpha Trion, and further pushed it with the romantic rivalry between Hot Rod and Springer over Arcee. This, of course was to try and bring the female audience. The Japanese simply took it a step further and the trend has continued on both sides of the Pacific through [i]Beast Wars and beyond. The one key difference is they tend to be a bit more chauvanistic about it with the females being weaker and more submissive in many cases, though not all. They also love the pathos and soap-opera elements more than we do. This is true of both boys and girls, whereas here, the romance is less soap opera. IT's there, but it's just another small part of the story, a little more subdued, and less in-your-face. There's less pathos.

Something to that effect. You explained it better than me.

Exactly. Most Japanese stories tend to have that element in their romances. Although some newer writers have been diverting from the trend to rely more on the main story and less on the pathos. One thing I love about transformers is that they never shove things down your throat. (Best Example the Golden Lagoon where we see the fighting and the reaction of Beachcomber. Said a lot more to me then hammer over the head approach that some newer shows have taken about the Enviroment.) Where as with Gundam, you have the kid that has to whine and be freaked out by everything. GAH!!!

In other news regarding Transformers, romance, and children...Regarding Chromia and Moonracer as mother and daughter, I don't really agree with it. The way I saw it was more of an older sister protecting a younger sister. Not so much a mother and a daughter. If they did have a child then I don't see it being moon racer since she doesn't bear resemblence to either Chromia or Ironhide.

Something odd to think about. Okay so lets say that there is a way for the transformers to have a form of DNA with this nano machines. Assuming that, then can the programing be compatable with human DNA? The reason I at all point this out is due to the fact that there has been episodes in the comics and on the show that show that a human, or humanoid, can actually fall for a Transformer. Best example is Sea Spray and Alana from Sea Change. So could, in this context, a human and a Transformer actually create a new life? Or would it be impossible.

(And for the reacord, no I don't think that they could have sex, I'm thinking more like what's done to parents that can't have a baby the normal way.)

Night Striker wrote:Exactly. Most Japanese stories tend to have that element in their romances. Although some newer writers have been diverting from the trend to rely more on the main story and less on the pathos. One thing I love about transformers is that they never shove things down your throat. (Best Example the Golden Lagoon where we see the fighting and the reaction of Beachcomber. Said a lot more to me then hammer over the head approach that some newer shows have taken about the Enviroment.) Where as with Gundam, you have the kid that has to whine and be freaked out by everything. GAH!!!

In other news regarding Transformers, romance, and children...Regarding Chromia and Moonracer as mother and daughter, I don't really agree with it. The way I saw it was more of an older sister protecting a younger sister. Not so much a mother and a daughter. If they did have a child then I don't see it being moon racer since she doesn't bear resemblence to either Chromia or Ironhide.

In a way she does. Her vehicle mode, while it's supposed to be a car, does have some "van-like" characteristics. The windshiled in particular is very far forward as seen in this pic:



The other factor behind this theroy is the age difference. Chromia is certainly old enough. She's about the same age as Ironhide, who is definately an old bot. Chromia too is supposed to be the oldest of the crew; much older than all of the others. Moonracer is a young lass. probably the equivalent of an eighteen to twenty year old.

Something odd to think about. Okay so lets say that there is a way for the transformers to have a form of DNA with this nano machines. Assuming that, then can the programing be compatable with human DNA? The reason I at all point this out is due to the fact that there has been episodes in the comics and on the show that show that a human, or humanoid, can actually fall for a Transformer. Best example is Sea Spray and Alana from Sea Change. So could, in this context, a human and a Transformer actually create a new life? Or would it be impossible.

(And for the reacord, no I don't think that they could have sex, I'm thinking more like what's done to parents that can't have a baby the normal way.)

I would have to say no. The reason for this is the molecular building blocks are different. Human DNA is carbon based, TF DNA is metal or silicon based. The very atomic and molecular structure is different.

Metal DNA? Come on, man, for the umpteenth time, they're robots. This is just getting silly now, like Chromia and Moonracer being related. They wouldn't be on a first name basis were they 'mother' and 'daughter.' And machines don't have DNA. In any instance, in issue 62 or 63 of the Marvel Comic Pincher states that every Transformer has the flame of the Creation Matrix flowing through him, meaning no Transformer would be born. They were all programmed with the Matrix.

Damolisher wrote:Metal DNA? Come on, man, for the umpteenth time, they're robots. This is just getting silly now, like Chromia and Moonracer being related. They wouldn't be on a first name basis were they 'mother' and 'daughter.' And machines don't have DNA. In any instance, in issue 62 or 63 of the Marvel Comic Pincher states that every Transformer has the flame of the Creation Matrix flowing through him, meaning no Transformer would be born. They were all programmed with the Matrix.

Sure, why not? The book does say they have genetics, that is DNA. What the basic building block the DNA is made of would have to be some form of metal or silicon. I'm leaning more towards silicon-based DNA personally.
As for Chomia and Moonracer, as I said, that's just pure speculation on my part and a connection I chose to give my customs of them based upon their interactions in the episode.