The Energon Pub

Yeah, well instead of trying to preach to others, how about you take that lead and follow it too, hm? What you call baiting, I call telling you exactly what you are. You seem to have a problem with others being 100% truthful, don't you Tramp? You don't like to face the music.

How about we all stop arguing and just post how we think Transformers could have children, and if you don't like that, leave. This is an interesting topic and (at the moment) all this thread is is one giant cyber-brawl. If all you want to do is fight, than start a tread for that and leave everyone else alone.

Thank you Whiner-tron.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, but the problem is, how do you talk about something we A) know the answer to, and B) will have people like Tramp talking about Elita-1's infamous "One Night in Elita" video, which he heard about from the back of some postcard saying 'Elita one released a sex tape with Optimus.'

I mean, what kind of warped freak thinks something created from metal, transistors, computers, circuits and activated using the Matrix and/or Vector Sigma can or needs to have sex? It's ridiculous, and any sane person looks at a Transformer and think "Yup, it's a robot." Why would machines have sex?

Here's the thing though, there has been some indications that transformers do have something akin to sex. Rattraps many comments in the cartoon indicate that there is some sort of legitimate connections to various robots. His great Aunt Arcee, the number of times he indicated fembots at the bars. Not to mention the depiction of romantic relationships in both G1 (the Search of Alpha trion, Arcee and Springer) and later in Beast Wars (BA, SB and Cheetor triangle) and Machines (Rattrap and Botanica). Not to mention the sequence where BA and SB merged sparks. To add to this, Wheelie's story has been stated that he had parents. This is to assume that they're probably his biological parents, meaning that there had to be some sort of way for him to come about. And considering his age, this means that he was created off world of Cybertron. So that would mean that there had to be a way to created him away from Vector Sigma.

Also of note some robots in various other series have had sexual relations. Or at least things akin to it.

Agree with Whiner-tron. We all need to calm down. We're not going anywhere if we keep bickering like this.

Night Striker wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, but the problem is, how do you talk about something we A) know the answer to, and B) will have people like Tramp talking about Elita-1's infamous "One Night in Elita" video, which he heard about from the back of some postcard saying 'Elita one released a sex tape with Optimus.'

I mean, what kind of warped freak thinks something created from metal, transistors, computers, circuits and activated using the Matrix and/or Vector Sigma can or needs to have sex? It's ridiculous, and any sane person looks at a Transformer and think "Yup, it's a robot." Why would machines have sex?

Here's the thing though, there has been some indications that transformers do have something akin to sex. Rattraps many comments in the cartoon indicate that there is some sort of legitimate connections to various robots. His great Aunt Arcee, the number of times he indicated fembots at the bars. Not to mention the depiction of romantic relationships in both G1 (the Search of Alpha trion, Arcee and Springer) and later in Beast Wars (BA, SB and Cheetor triangle) and Machines (Rattrap and Botanica). Not to mention the sequence where BA and SB merged sparks. To add to this, Wheelie's story has been stated that he had parents. This is to assume that they're probably his biological parents, meaning that there had to be some sort of way for him to come about. And considering his age, this means that he was created off world of Cybertron. So that would mean that there had to be a way to created him away from Vector Sigma.

Also of note some robots in various other series have had sexual relations. Or at least things akin to it.

Exactly. And it is those things that we wish to discuss. Damolisher, you may not want to accept the concept of Transformers being capable of some form of sexual reproduction, but there is canon evidence to support it throughout the multiverse. And it is those possible methods we wish to discuss. You are welcom e to participate and put forth ideas on how it would be possible and what form it might take, but please, do not keep on spouting about it being impossible because they're machines. It is irrelevant to the discussion and is simply causing fights; none of which any of us want to deal with.

Despite what some people hear are saying, self-replicating machines are quite possible and some very (very, VERY) simplistic ones have already been made in real life: nano-bots. Nano-bots are desined to be self replicating and to create very complex machines. Given that in many of the Transformers universes (univie?) nano-bots are stated to be the bases of Transformer self repair technology and appear to be the basis of the Beast Wars/Machines proto-form technology, there is a president for it.

Given this, two Transformers could, conceivably, combine their nano-bots, containing their personalities and blue prints, and allow them to create a new transformer containing elements of both their personality’s and physical attributes, AKA, a child.

I personally don’t see the mechanism/point of a child hood period (physically speaking), but I’m willing to listen to reason.

Why they would have a childhood phase is the same reason why we and other life forms do. Childhood is the time when we learn and grow the most and the fastest. In contrast, it is also when a life form is most vulnerable, which is why nature made most babies so cute so that their parents and others of their kind would want to protect them. The more intelligent the life form, usually the more helpless the offspring and the longer the development time. Predators usually have rather helpless young at birth, and their growth takes longer because there is more to teach. This is especially true of us. The longer the life-span also plays a part. TransFormers, with their life-spans, and their complexity, have a lot of knowedge to pass on, and a lot of experience to teach. Another factor is if there were no child phase, the offspring would tear the mother apart from the inside because it would be too big. It needs to be small, either as an egg or growing within the mother because there is only so much room inside her for the offspring or eggs within her. Thus, the size of the offspring (or egg if an egg layer) is determined by her body. That small size makes them vulnerable. The more intelligent they are, typically the more vulnerable, and thus the more parental care they need.

For me I don't see how the nanites could carry dna. Or for that matter why would they when with cables and such the data could be downloaded between the two transformers. I know that they can exists, and I have no doubt that they play some part in the repair and functions of the transformers. But I highly doubt that they would create a new life form inside the body of a female transformer.

As I said, I don't think there is a child growing inside the transformer, but rather in a spark chamber until it's matured enough to be placed inside a body.

Night Striker wrote:For me I don't see how the nanites could carry dna. Or for that matter why would they when with cables and such the data could be downloaded between the two transformers. I know that they can exists, and I have no doubt that they play some part in the repair and functions of the transformers. But I highly doubt that they would create a new life form inside the body of a female transformer.

As I said, I don't think there is a child growing inside the transformer, but rather in a spark chamber until it's matured enough to be placed inside a body.

Well, what is DNA? What are genes? They are a specific code sequence, and the individual codes within that sequence, which determines everything about a life form, which is encoded within every cell within a life form. Thus, given that even we can hardwire a code sequence into a chip, and genes and DNA are really nothin mor ethan a code sequence, it would make perfect sense for a mechanoid's genetic code to also be so encoded within his or her very basic make-up on the microscopic level—in his or her Nanomachine "cells", in the very circuits and nanites which make up every part of his or her body. Thus for reproduction, it would thus be nanites which would carry a random cocktail of half the male's genetic code and a small fragment of his spark, to a single corrisponding nanite egg also containing a cocktail of half her genetic code, as well as a small fragment of her spark; and one would combine with the "egg" nanite and create a new spark as well as begin the growth and development of a new Transformer child.

Whiner-tron wrote:How about we all stop arguing and just post how we think Transformers could have children, and if you don't like that, leave. This is an interesting topic and (at the moment) all this thread is is one giant cyber-brawl. If all you want to do is fight, than start a tread for that and leave everyone else alone.

Truely! I like reading through this topic, but not when it gets riddled with arguements saying "Tfs can't have relations" when in this thread it is already assumed so as to simplify things for discussion. Won't somebody please think of the children!

Anyway, what I think is, I think of how a Tf child might grow is they have to consume things that their bodies can utilise to add more to their frame and body. How they do this might look miraculous and super-advanced to our eyes, but in reality our cells and whatnot do the same things. I think the reason why they have childhoods is that it gives them time to mature and gain experiance, especially under the protective eye of the parents. Having them be suddenly mature leaves them vulnerable especially if they have to rely on experiance to survive. And they would then need instinct to survive, but instinct is not perfect. Just look at snakes and whatever that rely on instinct. The parents need to make a lot of young just to increase the chance of at least a few surviving into adulthood. Would you want to do that with a Tf, especially if there is a battle going on? Besides, parents have accumulated a lot of experiance between them, and they could help it to avoid mistakes it might end up making if it was rather on its on. Especially mistakes which could be fatal.

By looking at Alpha Trion, I would say the upper limit on Tf lifespan might be 10-12 million years. Tfs are a very young species actually, compared to some lifeforms on Earth.
To use a sort of arguement slightly off topic, if Tfs are so fantastically smart, why do they still make mistakes? They have such a long lifespan, shouldn't they have accumulated such knowlege that they know everything, and never need correcting?

Zombie Starscream makes some excellent points. It has already been shown that Transformers do consime things other than Energon, as evident with Macaddam's Old Oil House on cybertron. Given that they are capable of limited regeneration, they would obviously need to consume some raw materials to feed the regenerative systems. The matter has to come from somewhere. Energy alone won't cut it. The same system would oviously apply to growth, and thus food, made from the proper metals, silicates, etc, would obvioulsy be needed for proper growth.

Counterpunch wrote:I don't have a problem with Transformers having gender.

There's no genetic component to this whole fiasco though. There aren't 'parent-bots'. Material from two different Transformers does not combine and splice to create a new single individual.

Transformers are all given life through cloning, spark splitting, or the Primus/the matrix/Vector Sigma/allspark. Insane science ala Wheeljack or Shockwave is plausable too, though they are probably employing some of the aformentioned techniques to do this.

Transformers have life via their spark, which is a fragment, shard, or part of the larger matrix/allspark.

Hence, the whole, till all are one deal.

Transformers aren't "Children" either. Not once in Beast Wars did any of those protoforms wake up and **** themselves from being unable to decipher their head from their ass. They woke up aware, ready, and able.

That's a very good point. Without genetic inheritance, "parenting" don't make much of a case.

Besides, the Cybertron species are destined to early doom, without natural genetic selection. It won't makes sense for them to survive millions of years.

Unless, their kind is "engineered". And continuously modified and improved. Which again, runs counter to the "parenting" theory.

Auto Bot wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:I don't have a problem with Transformers having gender.

There's no genetic component to this whole fiasco though. There aren't 'parent-bots'. Material from two different Transformers does not combine and splice to create a new single individual.

Transformers are all given life through cloning, spark splitting, or the Primus/the matrix/Vector Sigma/allspark. Insane science ala Wheeljack or Shockwave is plausable too, though they are probably employing some of the aformentioned techniques to do this.

Transformers have life via their spark, which is a fragment, shard, or part of the larger matrix/allspark.

Hence, the whole, till all are one deal.

Transformers aren't "Children" either. Not once in Beast Wars did any of those protoforms wake up and **** themselves from being unable to decipher their head from their ass. They woke up aware, ready, and able.

That's a very good point. Without genetic inheritance, "parenting" don't make much of a case.

Besides, the Cybertron species are destined to early doom, without natural genetic selection. It won't makes sense for them to survive millions of years.

Unless, their kind is "engineered". And continuously modified and improved. Which again, runs counter to the "parenting" theory.

The problem with that point though is that, as mentioned before, there is indeed a genetic code within each of them to pass on.

OK, who gave this dropkick a lobotomy? They don't HAVE genetic codes! Only ORGANIC CREATURES WITH DNA have genetic bloody codes! Tramp, seriously, do you even know what a robot is? Because it seems every so often, you try to slap another organic law on Transformers. And Whinertron, if you don't like the arguing, YOU leave.

Well, i don't really like the concept of TFs reproducing that way, but there is a possibility after all. And in BW/BM, it is shown that Cybertron is organic at the core and thus Cybertronians could have organic matter in them too. So, they could also have DNA and genetic makeup, unlike what you said.

Damolisher wrote:OK, who gave this dropkick a lobotomy? They don't HAVE genetic codes! Only ORGANIC CREATURES WITH DNA have genetic bloody codes! Tramp, seriously, do you even know what a robot is? Because it seems every so often, you try to slap another organic law on Transformers. And Whinertron, if you don't like the arguing, YOU leave.

Damolisher, canon says they have a genetic code. They have a DNA analog. Therefore, yes they do have a genetic code.

It seems your entire purpose for posting in this thread is to not only pick a fight with me, but also to get this thread locked. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

Now then, let's weigh up the arguments from both sides:

Tramp and his alt ThunderThruster's arguments, with only things that apply to ALL Transformers Universes taken into consideration, and that are recognised by THE MAJORITY (Note: Not just by Tramp) as canon.

1. There's females.
2. Wreck-Gar was married.
3. Transformers are "Lifeforms."
4. Tramp claims that there's some whole 'must have' thing with Transformers having babies. I mean, they're robots, and there's absolutely nothing organic about them, but obviously, that doesn't matter.
5. Dreamwave says all this crap in MTMTE 8.

Claims made by Myself, Cyberplex, Shadowman, Glyph, Sly, Counterpunch, Auto Bot, and people wise enough to bet against Tramp.

1. Those females also happen to be WARRIORS, you know, as in fighters? Name me one Autobot female you've seen in ANY mythos who hasn't been a kickarse warrior type?
2. Yeah, sure. Wreck-Gar also referred to Perceptor as "Mr Wizard", and I don't see Tramp or his alt starting any topics up arguing about Perceptor hosting a show on Nickeldeon.
3. You keep telling everyone "Whether they're robots or not doesn't matter." Yes, it does matter. Cry lifeforms all you want, they're cartoon robots first and foremost.
4. This is what really annoys me with Tramp. He cries "Waaaaaah! It's got to be physically possible, because kids don't watch it otherwise, and won't believe it! The 7 criteria for life must be in force!" Yeah, sure, because as we all know, Life science is what they teach from the first day you're in primary school, because as we know as well, every child aged 5 to 12 across the nation knows everything about science and really gives a crap about cartoon robots doing things that are physically possible. I mean, you know, even though the target audience is 5-10 year olds. And there are far less possible things than the obvious fact robots don't have sex in play in Transformers. (/Sarcasm.)

Tramp, I hate to break this to you, but no-one at hasbro gives a damn what you think. None of the writers care, Simon Furman doesn't care and none of us care. You can tell everyone kids are perfectly aware of the laws of science all you want- last time I checked, no-one was marketting kids toys at 37 year olds. Watch the thing at your own damn preference, pal, and stop forcing your bullshit onto us.

5. Tramp has been told several times his books only count towards Dreamwave's comics, not the whole TFU. But he as usual, doesn't listen to everyone else. Because Tramp knows more than everyone, you know? He's never, ever wrong about anything, and if he is, it's best to backpeddle and contradict himself, which he's also been caught on many, many times.
6. We heard Megatron refer to Vector Sigma in the Key to Vector Sigma call it "The computer which gave us ALL life. Whether it's all in the room or all on Cybertron is irrelevant. The point still stands and serves as conclusive evidence that Transformers do not sexually breed.

OTHER:
Tramp tries to talk constantly about genetics, genetic codes and all this other bullshit which only applies to living lifeforms in real life, and tries to tell others to not use anything outside of Transformers as basis for facts, or other genres, which he will then constantly do. He will try to shove science down our throats which doesn't apply to children's cartoons. Tramp for some reason doesn't realise he's watching a kids' cartoon or a comic aimed at people who were fans as kids.

Tramp has to apply real life laws to everything. However, Transformers are robots, you cannot get a robot pregnant. I have never seen a pregnant computer, a pregnant printer, a pregnant refridgerator, a pregnant fax machine, a pregnant phone, a pregnant Ps2 or a pregnant PDA. I have also never seen or heard of a pregnant Transformer. Many times in Transformers mythos we are shown and told how Transformers are made, which Tramp also likes to readily ignore. Robots are unable to get pregnant as they have nowhere to store genitals, you would not build something with genitals, and Vector Sigma, I'm pretty sure isn't able to start handing out sperm sacks. The Creation Matrix is the life force of the Autobots, and carries a mystic power which can create life as often and as many times as one wishes.

On a planet at war, you would not need pregnancy. Decepticons would not exhibit love, and Autobots have better things to do than have sex. Coupled with the fact female transformers are damn near extinct, also the fact that when female Transformers Transform, they'd squash their I dunno, foetus, protoform, what? Also, notice that no protoform ever comes out of programming as a child. The only Transformer who is ever shown as a child is Wheelie. Your father in is obviously whoever created you, such as Pinnochio is Geppetto's son, and Frankenstein's Monster is Frankenstein's son. Tramp can claim all he wants that Transformer genitalia is not on the groin, but that's still stupid because then where would it go? Arm? Leg? Elbow? Eyeball? Mouth? Arse? It doesn't matter because it would STILL be moving in Transformation, and is therfore useless.

With all this conclusive evidence and many quotes within cartoons and comics to go against Tramp, as opposed to a very small amount for, along with the fact Simon Furman doesn't see the point in using female Transformers, and Simon Furman states they can't breed sexually, if you go by the fact Tramp has stated countless times the Ultimate Guide IS the be all and end all of Transformers Mythos and should be followed, and there is no passge on Transformer sexuality, coupled with the fact Transformers are MACHINES, it is conclusive that Transformers cannot and do not breed sexually, thereby making this topic IRRELEVANT. Good night.

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:OK, who gave this dropkick a lobotomy? They don't HAVE genetic codes! Only ORGANIC CREATURES WITH DNA have genetic bloody codes! Tramp, seriously, do you even know what a robot is? Because it seems every so often, you try to slap another organic law on Transformers. And Whinertron, if you don't like the arguing, YOU leave.

Damolisher, canon says they have a genetic code. They have a DNA analog. Therefore, yes they do have a genetic code.

It seems your entire purpose for posting in this thread is to not only pick a fight with me, but also to get this thread locked. If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

How am I "Trying to start a fight", dingus? We can't FIGHT, it's not a physicial place. But then, you don't know a machine from your elbow, so I can't say I blame you. And no, canon doesn't state they have genetics, troll. THEY'RE ROBOTS, YOU ****ING NOOB.

Yes, Damolisher, canon does indeed state it. MtMtE #8 repeatedly makes mention of many of their abilities buolt into their genetic codes. This includes Mass conversion, Tripplechanging combining, ect. It all has to do with their genetic make-up.

Secondly, none of what you have written is conclusive proof of anything. All it is, is you trying to shut down a thread that you don't like the topic of. Why are you so insitant in turning this into a viscious argument? One of the mods has already ruled against your argument. This is not a debate on whether or not Transformers can sexually reproduce. This is a discussion on how they can.

I don't see any mod disagreeing with my arguments, and what I GOT modded for was for insult your ignorance. You've had 2 mods disagree with you, and you still don't shut up. YOu have no manners and no respect for mods, because if you did, you wouldn't argue with them everytime they have an argument for you.

Your problem, Tramp, is you try to pain me as the bad guy when you're the one who shoots down everyone when they try to leave the topic with a final post, and stop arguing when you have to argue back which draws them back into the fold. You tell me that I'm rude to everyone who has a differing opinion when that's you, you try to say I'm trolling when it's you, you try to turn all YOUR negative qualities around on everyone else.

That, and you think you know more than everyone. And the reason this topic needs to be locked is that there's no argument, and if a group of virgins who think that Transformers can breed want to, let them do it where it won't cause such a stink-up! If the Original poster didn't want others to come in, he shouldn't have posted it out on a public board anyway!

Damolisher wrote:How am I "Trying to start a fight", dingus? We can't FIGHT, it's not a physicial place. But then, you don't know a machine from your elbow, so I can't say I blame you. And no, canon doesn't state they have genetics, troll. THEY'RE ROBOTS, YOU ****ING NOOB.

Please take note not to use any offensive terms and insults, no matter how you feel about the other person. That isn't very friendly. And this topic is on Theories on how they reproduce, not whether they can or cannot (as Tramp has stated). If you really feel that disgusted by Tramp's arguments, you could always stop visiting this topic.

Damolisher wrote:I don't see any mod disagreeing with my arguments, and what I GOT modded for was for insult your ignorance. You've had 2 mods disagree with you, and you still don't shut up. YOu have no manners and no respect for mods, because if you did, you wouldn't argue with them everytime they have an argument for you.

Your problem, Tramp, is you try to pain me as the bad guy when you're the one who shoots down everyone when they try to leave the topic with a final post, and stop arguing when you have to argue back which draws them back into the fold. You tell me that I'm rude to everyone who has a differing opinion when that's you, you try to say I'm trolling when it's you, you try to turn all YOUR negative qualities around on everyone else.

That, and you think you know more than everyone. And the reason this topic needs to be locked is that there's no argument, and if a group of virgins who think that Transformers can breed want to, let them do it where it won't cause such a stink-up! If the Original poster didn't want others to come in, he shouldn't have posted it out on a public board anyway!

Damolisher, Mkall has already come into this thread and specificalyl said that, and I quote you:

Mkall wrote:Rule #1 in the TF continuity, there is no solid 100% accurate continuity that everyone agrees to. Therefore it is quite possible that every theory could be right in the accepted continuity of the poster. That being said, I'm tired of seeing the "I am right, everyone else is wrong" mentality going on in this thread.

Discussions are cool; baiting and flaming are not.

Thank you

As far as this thread is concerned, Transformers are capable of some form of sexual reproduction.There is enough canon evidence from multiple sources to support it, and this thread is only about discussing theories on how it would work.

optronix91 wrote:

Damolisher wrote:How am I "Trying to start a fight", dingus? We can't FIGHT, it's not a physicial place. But then, you don't know a machine from your elbow, so I can't say I blame you. And no, canon doesn't state they have genetics, troll. THEY'RE ROBOTS, YOU ****ING NOOB.

Please take note not to use any offensive terms and insults, no matter how you feel about the other person. That isn't very friendly. And this topic is on Theories on how they reproduce, not whether they can or cannot (as Tramp has stated). If you really feel that disgusted by Tramp's arguments, you could always stop visiting this topic.

Thank you Optronix.

Maybe he's talking about digital "genetic" codes.