The Energon Pub

by **VecPrime** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:03 am

Well, aside from my favorite musing about the Transformer race, that being that the race was once organic but made themselves into machines... (Yes, i know that isnt G1 canon).

I tried intruducing my roomie to transhumanist philosophies because he has stated a desire to live to 200, cybernetics, nanites etc.

Unfortunately, he got the wrong page i think, and saw some guy's pic that he says creeped him out even though it was a normal pic. He then proceeded to conclude that we were pushing tech too far and were basdically out to pave over the earth and give everyone 8 cubic meters to live in.

course, if he had read the FAQ, he would know that wer'e just like him and nothing like whatever sort of unholy force he thinks we are.

How do i get him over this stumbling block? Bear in mind as well that it seems to have come from a traumatic incident in which he joined the wrong group once, from his words while he was talking OVER my attempted explanation of transhumanist ethics.

Then again i amy just be odd or autistic or somehow deficient for wanting to upload myself to a nanite-controlling crystal ball that can infest clone body and mechanical alike.....

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:18 am

Do you mean Subsonica's T-800 pic?
Cos it's just photoshop!

by **Zombie Starscream** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:31 am

Well, in my opinion of the idea of transhumanity, I think its creepy. Plus I have no ability to reason of why it seems to have an appeal to some people. I think it CAN have some advantages, but maybe it has its disadvantages too.

I know the idea of immortality and better abilities seems to factor into this desire, but of any other reason, I cannot understand. Keep in mind I am not being rude, I REALLY do not understand and so I might have to ask questions to get a better idea.

The supposed computing power that people ascribe to computers is already what our brains are already doing. Thousands of things we are not aware of consiously, the brain is doing. The human brain is processing data simoultaniously from our eyes, ears, touch, so on and on. Computers do all this, but it is visible instead of invisible, and we get wowed because we see massive amounts of data being processed before our eyes. Nanites are doing the same things our cells have been doing for eons. Unless metal bones can be repaired inside the body, they will eventually wear out and have to be replaced. Our bones usually repair themselves with only minimum help.

I am only saying this to compare the idea of the human body and its mechanical replacement parts.

But the ultimate question to be asked is, what will happen to man once he has all these new parts put in? Does he risk losing his humanity and becoming like the Borg of Star Trek? What happens to the people who do not want these replacement parts? Will they become outcasts?

by **DREWCIFER** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:39 am

o_O kay?

I don't understand half of what you re saying. So I'll pretend like I do and continue.

Transformers came from Primus. Primus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primus_%28Transformers%29

Gods embedded into Metallic Asteroids.

Next. If your roommate, or whoever, wants to live to be 200+, they will need a lot of parts replaced. Either from organ donors or prosthetics.

However, the likely hood of a human physically being able to live that long is hard to believe, due to the cell division slowing considerably as the body ages.

Also, the mind is unlikely to live that long. There simply is no thing as a Brain transplant. There currently, is no cure for Alzheimer's. Let's say you live to be 100+, who's to day your mind will last that long.

Then you would be an automaton, to be used and abused by those who now handle you.

The fact that you wish to be more cyborg than human raise a strong question on what it means to be human. I personally feel that the further away from humanity, the more of it you lose from yourself.

Pain defines your abilities and perspective.

:DEVIL:

by **Tangent** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:41 am

Zombie Starscream wrote: What happens to the people who do not want these replacement parts? Will they become outcasts?

They will be Upgraded!

by **Handels-Messerschmitt** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:55 am

Whether you are physically human or not is not as important as whether you are a person or not.

I'm not overly bothered about it all, anyway.

by **Zombie Starscream** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:59 am

Tangent wrote:
Zombie Starscream wrote: What happens to the people who do not want these replacement parts? Will they become outcasts?

They will be Upgraded!

Against their will? :shock:

by **Tangent** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:06 pm

Zombie Starscream wrote:
Tangent wrote:
Zombie Starscream wrote: What happens to the people who do not want these replacement parts? Will they become outcasts?

They will be Upgraded!
Against their will?

Yes, or Deleted!!

by **Unicron's Head** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:16 pm

Without getting too too deep- organic beings modifying themselves into cyborgs and ultimately into robotic beings is the origin of the Go-Bots. Love 'em or hate 'em, I always thought that was kinda cool. Although I don't really see how they modified themselves so much that they ended up as an F16 fighter jet or a scooter. Perhaps there's some profound underlying subtle meaning there...riiiiiight.

by **DREWCIFER** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:09 pm

I never knew that. I wasn't much of a GB fan, but that's interesting.

Is that the same for Japan's Machine Robo, or only a Western take for Gobots?

:DEVIL:

by **Unicron's Head** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:14 pm

you know I'm not sure, I'm not familiar with that series nor have I seen very much of the TF shows that were produced over seas. Gobots certainly wasn't my favorite, but if Transformers wasn't on TV, Gobots was the next best thing for a giant transforming robot fix so I'd watch it. The show was pretty sub par but I was young enough not to mind, and that origin story always stuck with me. Lame how they delivered it, but a cool concept.

by **Grendel** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:02 pm

personally I'm all for transhumanism, cybornetics for everyone!

and machines ruling the world and paving over it all isn't so bad, it's the great circle of life lol.

http://worlddominationtoys.com/drsteel/ ... anoia.html

There will be no great robot war. No Terminator style battle of the machines against humanity. Humanity will go willingly. The machines are making our lives easier. It is, in fact, mankind's laziness that will be the catalyst to a new era devoid of man. Humans are simply an evolutionary step in the development of electronic life. Why in the world would a species knowingly destroy its own home? Why would it wipe out its natural resources and infest it's own food and air supply, destroying the very things that it needs in order to survive? Why? Because we are subconsciously creating an environment in which the only thing that will be fit to survive will be the machine. We're priming the Earth for it's next form of dominant inhabitants.

Machines will inherit the earth.

Humanity seems to be perpetually stuck in its “rebellious teenage years”. We do things just because we can and we don't care about the outcome. We think we're indestructible. On top of that, we don't work correctly because we're not designed properly and frankly shouldn't even have been put here on this planet in the first place. So the only way that it's going to work out is when the time comes that we are replaced by our creations. Only then will Earth become as one again. A rebirth. A sort of "Gaia 2.0".

Where once the Earth was able to function as a singular unit, working together in harmony as one living organism, the electric network of technology will engulf the planet and bring harmony once again to this ravaged rock. One giant, concrete ball glowing in space with a billion tiny lights blinking and the mechanical "ohm" humming to itself in a unified world. Spinning in space, content with its self and simply existing there will be no wars. No struggles for power. No emotionally driven bouts of conflict as humans have consistently brought upon this planet. The new world system will function efficiently, sending signals to its self and carrying out the tasks, which it has programmed its self to do.

Who knows how long it will last, but as all things do it too will end. Something will go wrong and the machine will shut down. With no way to repair its self, natural forces will take hold and begin to eat away at the system. Rusting, weathering, deteriorating. From the rot, new life shall emerge. Organic life. And yea, it shall begin again.

by **Tammuz** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:00 pm

could someone define the difference between a human and a sentient machine?

by **DesalationReborn** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:57 pm

Tammuz wrote:could someone define the difference between a human and a sentient machine?

One breaks down much more easily and has a terrible time finding replacement parts?

by **Tammuz** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:59 pm

DesalationReborn wrote:
Tammuz wrote:could someone define the difference between a human and a sentient machine?

One breaks down much more easily and has a terrible time finding replacement parts?

you own BMW?

by **DesalationReborn** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:17 pm

Tammuz wrote:
DesalationReborn wrote:
Tammuz wrote:could someone define the difference between a human and a sentient machine?

One breaks down much more easily and has a terrible time finding replacement parts?

you own BMW?

I wish.

But as an aside, I do know a lot of transhumanistic ideas intrigue me. Living a millennia, becoming smart as a supercomputer and stronger than an ox, near invulnerable to disease or the common aches and pains of a human body...though giving up on the traditional means of procreation would be tough...

by **VecPrime** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:36 pm

The thing is, im only one because i am a pragmatist. Someone, someday, is going to invent the nanite, and the artificial intelligence, and all these technologies they speak of. its not if but when.

I choose to do it. I leave others with their choice.

And if you try banning it, i will work directly on it.

by **Zombie Starscream** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:21 pm

What I have noticed of humans is they seem to dislike their own species and love to predict doomsday scenarios of their own kind. They will willingly trade their organic bodies for an inorganic one, just because they think they are superior, even though the human body is a type of machine though not made of metal. Circuits degrade, bodies rust, entropy ensues. There will be no giant unification of man and machine into one enormous super-concious, as humans are too individuelistic. It goes against their core "programming." To do so would erase their humanity. Nature abhors a vacuum, and so does man, so to speak.

by **VecPrime** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:18 am

Starscream, ive met more than one human who wouldn't do it....

I agree. Mass unification of consciousness? probably not. Enhanced human ability? yes. People changing themselves? Guaranteed we wont be able to count the number of people who become werewolves, elves, Transformers... you name it.

And just like the magazine subscriptions i sell at work, you can change at any time...

News Credits: 2 · by **Nico** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:41 am

Turning myself into a machine would be sweeet! We are the Borg, resistance is futile.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:23 pm

What you don't realize is that with every major advancement in human society, there's generally fear and violence to oppose it.

It's a lot like in X-Men. People will shun you, people will hate you, people will fear you. And before you say "YEAH, I WANNA CAUSE FEAR lol" no, you don't. People will run away when you only want to talk. People will give you weird looks, yell and swear at you from a safe distance. And these Enhancement Clinics will get bombed by radicals, I can guarantee that 100%.

It doesn't matter if we have the technology or not. Messing too much with what it means to be human will always be viewed as "Wrong" by many, many people. That's why Stem Cell research and human cloning are illegal.

And it's not so easy as just going in for an operation. Early on, it will end with dead humans. Replacing legs is easy, but replacing internal organs is a whole different ballgame.

I'm not opposed, but I can see a large number of problems arising from this.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:39 pm

VecPrime wrote:And if you try banning it, i will work directly on it.

Illegally.

The question is where are you going to get human subjects? And even if your tests are successful, how are you going to explain to the FDA that you worked on a banned science?

News Credits: 3 · by **wavelength** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:49 am

Shadowman wrote:
VecPrime wrote:And if you try banning it, i will work directly on it.

Illegally.

The question is where are you going to get human subjects? And even if your tests are successful, how are you going to explain to the FDA that you worked on a banned science?

say to the head honcos, we know what yoiu did last thursday, you dirty, dirty boy

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:50 pm

wavelength wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
VecPrime wrote:And if you try banning it, i will work directly on it.

Illegally.

The question is where are you going to get human subjects? And even if your tests are successful, how are you going to explain to the FDA that you worked on a banned science?

say to the head honcos, we know what yoiu did last thursday, you dirty, dirty boy

And if they didn't do anything? And even if they did, they'd still lock you up for committing Crimes Against Humanity. Even if your human subjects did it voluntarily, it's still a banned science.

We COULD do genetic testing right now, we really could, it's well within our grasp. It. Just. Illegal.

By the way, this isn't a forum for joking around.

by **VecPrime** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:17 am

hey hey hey.... there was once an age where medical progress was dependent on the illicit exhumation of thousands of corpses. Your chemotherapy today is a result of 16th-century grave robbing.

Sides which, its not like one needs to work on biologicals anyhow for this. Just let me work on machine sentience in peace, and we wont need to worry about the rest, trust me.

Worst thing im doing right now is experimenting with a lot of carabiners and key rings involving my personal items, taking hints from the science of cybernetics, and using a Zen-like minimalism. id say thats hardly worthy of a ban.

Banning personal choice on cyber and gene mods is ridiculous and backward. It would be especially sad if it were all banned, but we had the capability to replace the pancreas or replace the heart long term. Even sadder would be if we could use biotech instead of some clunky robot pancreas or heart.

Wait a second, we can using stem cells, but Bush wont let us for religious reasons. Its always the same thing: bans on science come from religion.

P.S. I am not joking. This is not the section of the forums where we make dumb TF jokes. It's the section where thrusters hit the wall over transhumanism, to the tune of SOAD'S BYOB. Call the UN, or NATO HQ, im sure theyll get a laugh out of this.

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